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CharCharOdell 1712	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:14:00 - [1] - Quote Removing or nerfing damage mods reduces variety. However, removing this skill would reduce dps by 15%. Not that high for low DPS weapons like mass drivers, shotguns, etc, but a huge impact on high dps weapons like the AR and SR. It would improve the TTK problem without targeting one specific build type because, honestly, what else are GA guys supposed to put in their highs? Microfibil stimulants and shield mods and a suit with poor shield recharge and relative slowness...lol Replacing it is not okay, either. Bringing back sharpshooter would be bad. Increasing ROF would be bad. If anything, it could be another reduction to CPU/PG usage. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2660	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:16:00 - [2] - Quote i approve of this. +1 Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
EternalRMG KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 667	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:19:00 - [3] - Quote Just reduce dmg by 15% to all weapons and leave prof. Alone That is the only skill that makes low tier weapons powerfuller thsn they normally are without making them op With this skill, sp gives you an edge over someone witb the same gear as you "Fight Togheter; Win Together" Duster Since: July 2012 Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 378	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:21:00 - [4] - Quote I can go for this. +1 Ive been using firearms professionally for over 16 years and no matter how "proficient" i am i cant make them hit any harder. Tough thing is what do you replace it with or do you just give the SP back? This kinda reminds me of how mass drivers can increase their splash radius as a skill.
Tectonic Fusion 647	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:29:00 - [5] - Quote Damage mods aren't as good as shields. They are a choice between tank and DPS... Solo Player Squad status: Locked
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2661	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:31:00 - [6] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Damage mods aren't as good as shields. They are a choice between tank and DPS... They are actually , and surprising , EQUALLY effective. Except , you dont get a 15% Shield efficiency with a skill.... Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
Cosgar ParagonX 8173	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:36:00 - [7] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: Just reduce dmg by 15% to all weapons and leave prof. Alone That is the only skill that makes low tier weapons powerfuller thsn they normally are without making them op With this skill, sp gives you an edge over someone witb the same gear as you Having a passive that flat out adds raw damage widens the SP/skill gap and ruins weapon balance on both end of the meta spectrum. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of certain weapons being only good at proto or X proficiency while others are too good starting at militia. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Kaylee Veloc ShootBreakStab 39	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:39:00 - [8] - Quote I can't remember offhand but I think the shotgun is the only weapon not to receive damage from its proficiency skill and as you said ROF is bad (shotguns prof skill) does that also get removed with your idea?
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 653	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:48:00 - [9] - Quote Cosgar wrote: EternalRMG wrote: Just reduce dmg by 15% to all weapons and leave prof. Alone That is the only skill that makes low tier weapons powerfuller thsn they normally are without making them op With this skill, sp gives you an edge over someone witb the same gear as you Having a passive that flat out adds raw damage widens the SP/skill gap and ruins weapon balance on both end of the meta spectrum. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of certain weapons being only good at proto or X proficiency while others are too good starting at militia. It rewards specialization. If the skill tree is too flat everyone will spec into everything, and everyone will just run FOTM weapons. I like how the game forces you to commit heavily into suits/weapons/vehicles. Fix TTK by nerfing base DPS of OP weapons. It's not complicated. Also AR needs a little kick and the game should cause gun jam when it detects turbo controllers. Problem solved. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 513	Posted - 2013.12.02 04:56:00 - [10] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Removing or nerfing damage mods reduces variety. However, removing this skill would reduce dps by 15%. Not that high for low DPS weapons like mass drivers, shotguns, etc, but a huge impact on high dps weapons like the AR and SR. It would improve the TTK problem without targeting one specific build type because, honestly, what else are GA guys supposed to put in their highs? Microfibil stimulants and shield mods and a suit with poor shield recharge and relative slowness...lol Replacing it is not okay, either. Bringing back sharpshooter would be bad. Increasing ROF would be bad. If anything, it could be another reduction to CPU/PG usage. Funny thing is,back when the Weaponry skill gave you an extra 10% damage,to ALL weapons.people still didn't drop as fast as they do now,along with the proficiency and damage mods. Long story short,there's something else terribly wrong with the damage values of this game right now. A few matches ago,I took a single shot from an AR,don't know which one it was,but my shields went from 408 down to 283.That's 125 hp for a single shot! There's just no way that should ever be.

Kane Fyea 2298	Posted - 2013.12.02 05:05:00 - [11] - Quote Th3rdSun wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Removing or nerfing damage mods reduces variety. However, removing this skill would reduce dps by 15%. Not that high for low DPS weapons like mass drivers, shotguns, etc, but a huge impact on high dps weapons like the AR and SR. It would improve the TTK problem without targeting one specific build type because, honestly, what else are GA guys supposed to put in their highs? Microfibil stimulants and shield mods and a suit with poor shield recharge and relative slowness...lol Replacing it is not okay, either. Bringing back sharpshooter would be bad. Increasing ROF would be bad. If anything, it could be another reduction to CPU/PG usage. Funny thing is,back when the Weaponry skill gave you an extra 10% damage,to ALL weapons.people still didn't drop as fast as they do now,along with the proficiency and damage mods. Long story short,there's something else terribly wrong with the damage values of this game right now. A few matches ago,I took a single shot from an AR,don't know which one it was,but my shields went from 408 down to 283.That's 125 hp for a single shot! There's just no way that should ever be. Damage mods + proficiency + 10% efficiency against shields on the AR.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1068	Posted - 2013.12.02 05:27:00 - [12] - Quote No. My Commando needs them. SWEET MOTHER OF TERESA ON THE HOOD OF A MERCEDES BENZ, YOU SOUND LIKE A MAJESTIC FUCKING EAGLE! CAN YOU SING?!
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 947	Posted - 2013.12.02 05:33:00 - [13] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Th3rdSun wrote: Funny thing is,back when the Weaponry skill gave you an extra 10% damage,to ALL weapons.people still didn't drop as fast as they do now,along with the proficiency and damage mods. Long story short,there's something else terribly wrong with the damage values of this game right now. A few matches ago,I took a single shot from an AR,don't know which one it was,but my shields went from 408 down to 283.That's 125 hp for a single shot! There's just no way that should ever be. Damage mods + proficiency + 10% efficiency against shields on the AR. Probably a Tactical AR single shot to the head.
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 513	Posted - 2013.12.02 05:34:00 - [14] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Th3rdSun wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Removing or nerfing damage mods reduces variety. However, removing this skill would reduce dps by 15%. Not that high for low DPS weapons like mass drivers, shotguns, etc, but a huge impact on high dps weapons like the AR and SR. It would improve the TTK problem without targeting one specific build type because, honestly, what else are GA guys supposed to put in their highs? Microfibil stimulants and shield mods and a suit with poor shield recharge and relative slowness...lol Replacing it is not okay, either. Bringing back sharpshooter would be bad. Increasing ROF would be bad. If anything, it could be another reduction to CPU/PG usage. Funny thing is,back when the Weaponry skill gave you an extra 10% damage,to ALL weapons.people still didn't drop as fast as they do now,along with the proficiency and damage mods. Long story short,there's something else terribly wrong with the damage values of this game right now. A few matches ago,I took a single shot from an AR,don't know which one it was,but my shields went from 408 down to 283.That's 125 hp for a single shot! There's just no way that should ever be. Damage mods + proficiency + 10% efficiency against shields on the AR. As a Caldari Assault,I can honestly say that those values are off.CCP has never really been good at math anyway.Remember when grenades had a splash damage of six meters,but if you were about 10~12 feet away,you wouldn't get hurt? 6 meters=19.685 feet.
Cosgar ParagonX 8178	Posted - 2013.12.02 05:34:00 - [15] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Cosgar wrote: EternalRMG wrote: Just reduce dmg by 15% to all weapons and leave prof. Alone That is the only skill that makes low tier weapons powerfuller thsn they normally are without making them op With this skill, sp gives you an edge over someone witb the same gear as you Having a passive that flat out adds raw damage widens the SP/skill gap and ruins weapon balance on both end of the meta spectrum. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of certain weapons being only good at proto or X proficiency while others are too good starting at militia. It rewards specialization. If the skill tree is too flat everyone will spec into everything, and everyone will just run FOTM weapons. I like how the game forces you to commit heavily into suits/weapons/vehicles. Fix TTK by nerfing base DPS of OP weapons. It's not complicated. Also AR needs a little kick and the game should cause gun jam when it detects turbo controllers. Problem solved. Again, it ruins weapon balance when rebalancing comes into play. Not everyone is going to want to have to put X levels of proficiency in a weapon just for it to be on a competitive level. Also, it kills the risk/reward dynamic of the game. You don't lose anything by having a passive for using a specific weapon like you do when you have to fill a slot with damage mods to get a bonus to your DPS. There's nothing wrong with having a skill that rewards you for specializing, mind you, but it shouldn't be a flat bonus to DPS. Reload speed, heat build up, scope zoom, and other indirect bonuses would make more sense. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 513	Posted - 2013.12.02 05:38:00 - [16] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Cosgar wrote: EternalRMG wrote: Just reduce dmg by 15% to all weapons and leave prof. Alone That is the only skill that makes low tier weapons powerfuller thsn they normally are without making them op With this skill, sp gives you an edge over someone witb the same gear as you Having a passive that flat out adds raw damage widens the SP/skill gap and ruins weapon balance on both end of the meta spectrum. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of certain weapons being only good at proto or X proficiency while others are too good starting at militia. It rewards specialization. If the skill tree is too flat everyone will spec into everything, and everyone will just run FOTM weapons. I like how the game forces you to commit heavily into suits/weapons/vehicles. Fix TTK by nerfing base DPS of OP weapons. It's not complicated. Also AR needs a little kick and the game should cause gun jam when it detects turbo controllers. Problem solved. Again, it ruins weapon balance when rebalancing comes into play. Not everyone is going to want to have to put X levels of proficiency in a weapon just for it to be on a competitive level. Also, it kills the risk/reward dynamic of the game. You don't lose anything by having a passive for using a specific weapon like you do when you have to fill a slot with damage mods to get a bonus to your DPS. There's nothing wrong with having a skill that rewards you for specializing, mind you, but it shouldn't be a flat bonus to DPS. Reload speed, heat build up, scope zoom, and other indirect bonuses would make more sense. I like your comment,but I mostly gave you a like for your signature.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1142	Posted - 2013.12.02 05:52:00 - [17] - Quote I think in general damage in this game is grossly inflated. Even a small reduction to this skill's effectiveness may be in order. Perhaps from 3 to 2%? Also. Kasote Denzara wrote: No. My Commando needs them. Your signature. HARMONIZE WITH ME MAGGOT!! Love me some AoT:Abridged. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Cosgar ParagonX 8180	Posted - 2013.12.02 05:56:00 - [18] - Quote Th3rdSun wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Cosgar wrote: EternalRMG wrote: Just reduce dmg by 15% to all weapons and leave prof. Alone That is the only skill that makes low tier weapons powerfuller thsn they normally are without making them op With this skill, sp gives you an edge over someone witb the same gear as you Having a passive that flat out adds raw damage widens the SP/skill gap and ruins weapon balance on both end of the meta spectrum. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of certain weapons being only good at proto or X proficiency while others are too good starting at militia. It rewards specialization. If the skill tree is too flat everyone will spec into everything, and everyone will just run FOTM weapons. I like how the game forces you to commit heavily into suits/weapons/vehicles. Fix TTK by nerfing base DPS of OP weapons. It's not complicated. Also AR needs a little kick and the game should cause gun jam when it detects turbo controllers. Problem solved. Again, it ruins weapon balance when rebalancing comes into play. Not everyone is going to want to have to put X levels of proficiency in a weapon just for it to be on a competitive level. Also, it kills the risk/reward dynamic of the game. You don't lose anything by having a passive for using a specific weapon like you do when you have to fill a slot with damage mods to get a bonus to your DPS. There's nothing wrong with having a skill that rewards you for specializing, mind you, but it shouldn't be a flat bonus to DPS. Reload speed, heat build up, scope zoom, and other indirect bonuses would make more sense. I like your comment,but I mostly gave you a like for your signature. On topic,when I first read the thread title,I was against it,but the more it's argued,I think it actually makes more sense to remove proficiency rather than damage mods.I also support what another poster said about moving damage mods to low slots instead of high slots. These two changes would be the easiest for CCP to implement and the most beneficial for overall game balance.There's just no reason at this point for this not to happen. EDIT: On your thought about not everyone not wanting to put time into putting point into proficiency in order to say competitive,well that's an obvious carrot on a stick(one of many) that CCP has going on. Move damage mods to low slots? That's... GENIUS! So basically armor tankers will have to choose between gank and tank, while shield tankers, who are already forced to rely on hit and run tactics get their playstyle reinforced. This would also work if extenders got a penalty to recharge delay as well. I'm going to sleep on this and make a topic tomorrow. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1465	Posted - 2013.12.02 05:56:00 - [19] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: powerfuller 4th grade is UP Cheeseburgers.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1166	Posted - 2013.12.02 06:05:00 - [20] - Quote No...just..no "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein

CharCharOdell 1714	Posted - 2013.12.02 06:05:00 - [21] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Tectonic Fusion wrote: Damage mods aren't as good as shields. They are a choice between tank and DPS... They are actually , and surprising , EQUALLY effective. Except , you dont get a 15% Shield efficiency with a skill.... well...u actually get 25% efficiency...with lvl 5 Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1142	Posted - 2013.12.02 06:18:00 - [22] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Tectonic Fusion wrote: Damage mods aren't as good as shields. They are a choice between tank and DPS... They are actually , and surprising , EQUALLY effective. Except , you dont get a 15% Shield efficiency with a skill.... well...u actually get 25% efficiency...with lvl 5 True but compared to armor plates, a complex shield extender not only has similar base HP to a basic armor plate, but it also gains less of a bonus from the skill because of its low base bonus. This effectively means that not only do armor tanks get more base HP from modules and more bonus HP from skills, but also get the benefit of boosting their HP with damage mods. This skews the benefit of damage modules severely on the side of armor tanks, which is why they're used so frequently now. Why damage modules are high slots, I'll never know. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 380	Posted - 2013.12.02 07:30:00 - [23] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Tectonic Fusion wrote: Damage mods aren't as good as shields. They are a choice between tank and DPS... They are actually , and surprising , EQUALLY effective. Except , you dont get a 15% Shield efficiency with a skill.... well...u actually get 25% efficiency...with lvl 5 True but compared to armor plates, a complex shield extender not only has similar base HP to a basic armor plate, but it also gains less of a bonus from the skill because of its low base bonus. This effectively means that not only do armor tanks get more base HP from modules and more bonus HP from skills, but also get the benefit of boosting their HP with damage mods. This skews the benefit of damage modules severely on the side of armor tanks, which is why they're used so frequently now. Why damage modules are high slots, I'll never know. The other major factor in shield vs armor tanking is that with the capability to generate significant stacks of damage increase options it effectively negates the shield recharge aspect...you're dead before you can recharge. I actually think that damage mods should be considered equipment and you then need to make a serious choice. I admit this still doesn't solve the LogiMonster issue but I suspect that CCP will be looking into that aspect pretty soon.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1147	Posted - 2013.12.02 07:34:00 - [24] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Tectonic Fusion wrote: Damage mods aren't as good as shields. They are a choice between tank and DPS... They are actually , and surprising , EQUALLY effective. Except , you dont get a 15% Shield efficiency with a skill.... well...u actually get 25% efficiency...with lvl 5 True but compared to armor plates, a complex shield extender not only has similar base HP to a basic armor plate, but it also gains less of a bonus from the skill because of its low base bonus. This effectively means that not only do armor tanks get more base HP from modules and more bonus HP from skills, but also get the benefit of boosting their HP with damage mods. This skews the benefit of damage modules severely on the side of armor tanks, which is why they're used so frequently now. Why damage modules are high slots, I'll never know. The other major factor in shield vs armor tanking is that with the capability to generate significant stacks of damage increase options it effectively negates the shield recharge aspect...you're dead before you can recharge. I actually think that damage mods should be considered equipment and you then need to make a serious choice. I admit this still doesn't solve the LogiMonster issue but I suspect that CCP will be looking into that aspect pretty soon. Well I know we've talked about this before in match, but damage output in this game is stupidly inflated. The ability to stack multiple complex damage modules is way too easy to pull off. Im personally against the Damage Mod Equipment Slot concept for the very reason you stated, The LogiMonster. I think its best to try and avoid re-writing the book and focus on using existing EVE mechanics and themes to properly balance Dust. Tweak the slot position and resource cost and I think a lot of the damage problems we're seeing now would be greatly diminished. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
DEZKA DIABLO Commando Perkone Caldari State 98	Posted - 2013.12.02 08:59:00 - [25] - Quote Not for nova knives, heavies have like 2000 HP now so we need that damage, an not for sg the proficiency is increased rof not damage, an not for other sidearms either, the faylock needs all the help it can get, SMgs an pistols are scout s main weapons in most cases, but by all means break everything else
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 1630	Posted - 2013.12.02 09:08:00 - [26] - Quote Please don't. Either an additional skin and a 1% damage bonus wouldn't justify such a massive SP sink. 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 903	Posted - 2013.12.02 10:17:00 - [27] - Quote This game is built for you to level up and be blatantly better than other players. Its not a pick up n' go game, like CoD or BF where everyone is equal. For better or worse, that's the way it is. You put the time & work in, you get rewarded with skills and gear that make you a better player than if you were without them. Does it suck getting shot with Proto weapons that have 3-4 damage mods stacked on them and proficiency V? Yes. But the consensus is that this was earned by the time played in game. Separate where you can use the gear is a better solution.
N7 Operative Anthony WarRavens League of Infamy 5	Posted - 2013.12.02 11:00:00 - [28] - Quote This is the most dumbest thing I've heard of. It took me a long time to skill into Proficiency 5, and now you want to replace it with 5% total additional passive damage and some weapon skins? Hell No! Someone posted here that Dust 514 is not a pick up and go game, and he is absolutely right. I have played this game for almost 6 months, so I have the right to have an assault rifle at Proficiency 5 with two complex damage modules. If your complaining about weapons being OP and you only have a months time of playing Dust 514, then you have no right suggesting to take something away that people worked hard for.
CharCharOdell 1717	Posted - 2013.12.02 21:26:00 - [29] - Quote N7 Operative Anthony wrote: This is the most dumbest thing I've heard of. It took me a long time to skill into Proficiency 5, and now you want to replace it with 5% total additional passive damage and some weapon skins? Hell No! Someone posted here that Dust 514 is not a pick up and go game, and he is absolutely right. I have played this game for almost 6 months, so I have the right to have an assault rifle at Proficiency 5 with two complex damage modules. If your complaining about weapons being OP and you only have a months time of playing Dust 514, then you have no right suggesting to take something away that people worked hard for. You would get a sp refund if the skill was changed. It is a way better solution than removing damage mods. The last option is a straight up nerf to specific weapons. Fact is: TTK is to low and a 15% reduction would target high DPS weapons more. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2605	Posted - 2013.12.02 21:52:00 - [30] - Quote The thing with proficiency is it takes serious work to get to, and even after that it's SP requirements are extreme , damage mods on the other hand are extremely easy to obtain and even more effective in boosting damage, and add the fact that even shield tanking suits can stack high armor along with the fact that shield increase by level is well.....pathetic not equipping one or two is downright stupid at this point. Damage mods also, by what they are at their core, upset ground combat some weapons are obviously balanced with them in mind to the point you almost need them, or straight up DO need them in the sniper and lasor's case, that is not something that will change until the damage mods are removed or restricted in grunt combat, the MD, LR, and SR are prime examples. In order to get a better balance for different weapons and their roles the damage mods must be put on a leash. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 STB-Infantry (Demolition)

Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2429	Posted - 2013.12.02 21:56:00 - [31] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: N7 Operative Anthony wrote: This is the most dumbest thing I've heard of. It took me a long time to skill into Proficiency 5, and now you want to replace it with 5% total additional passive damage and some weapon skins? Hell No! Someone posted here that Dust 514 is not a pick up and go game, and he is absolutely right. I have played this game for almost 6 months, so I have the right to have an assault rifle at Proficiency 5 with two complex damage modules. If your complaining about weapons being OP and you only have a months time of playing Dust 514, then you have no right suggesting to take something away that people worked hard for. You would get a sp refund if the skill was changed. It is a way better solution than removing damage mods. The last option is a straight up nerf to specific weapons. Fact is: TTK is to low and a 15% reduction would target high DPS weapons more. Thing is, this would only nerf people with high SP investments. I can melt people with an Exile AR in two seconds, and I have AR prof at 0, it won't actually increase TTK as much as you would think. I am in favor of taking the Uprising 10% damage buff away, and then maybe we can just nerf prof to do 2% per level instead of 3%. No, I am not CCP Logibro.


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