Pages: 1 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Saoa Scum
Judge Mercenaries
21
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 10:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yes i know this is getting old but i feel the need to give my thoughts on the issue from a Callogi point of view
Was trying some fits to pure shield tank ( hit and run playstyle is my type of gameplay ) and i actually found a viable fit against those armor brick tanks. In some situations i found myself having the advantage with the help of terrain of course
The only problem with it is that i have to sacrifice 2 highslots, 3 lowslots to make it work somewhat good (with current TTK) And i really think a solution to this would be to buff shield regulation and shield recharge rate. Only tried on proto suit since it would not work on advanced cause lack of slots The fit:
2 Complex Shield extenders ( +72hp/module ) 2 "Weld" Basic shield recharger ( +25% recharge rate and -2% on shield hp/ module ) 1 Complex dmg modifier
1 Complex dampener ( to me its a must:P ) 1 "Tether" Complex shield regulator ( -25% recharge delay, -32,75 with skills ( 25x1,31=32,75 )) 2 Enhanced shield regulator ( -20% recharge delay, -26,2% with skills ( 20x1,31=26,2 ))
Shield hp: 361 Armor hp: 112 Ehp: 473 Shield recharge rate: 30,43 ( 20x1,5=30 ) Shield recharge delay: 2,19763854 sec ( 6 x 0,6725 x 0,738 x 0,738 ) Shield depleted recharge delay: 2,93018472 sec ( 8 x 0,6725 x 0,738 x 0,738 )
My skills are: Cal logi suit 5 (+25% shield reg efficiency) Shield regulation 3, (+6% shield reg efficiency) Shield recharger 0, ( no bonus ) Shield extension 5 (+10% shield ext efficiency)
As you can see the recharge delay is now 2 sec and 3 sec wich doesnt sound like much but it still only regens 30hp/s so i still need to hide for alot more time before i engage again, Now this is how the suit stat should look like with one complex regulator and 1 complex recharger if you ask me, with my skills. Not 3 Regulators and 2 Rechargers. Would be so much better to just fit 3 plates or 2 plates and a running module wich also have lower CPU/PG cost In a gunfight 3sec is an awful lot of time especially when the TTK is this low
So my conclusion... do NOT buff shield extenders, do NOT nerf armor plates but BUFF regulators and rechargers!
Thoughts on this? |
8213
BIG BAD W0LVES
877
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 11:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
My thoughts is just leave it alone already... My SCR eats Caldaris like m&ms. the AR eats Gallentes... okay the AR eats everything... |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
446
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 11:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
The fit might work if no one ever got the drop on you. If they did, you'd be as screwed as a frontline suit. |
Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1174
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 11:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Saoa Scum wrote:Yes i know this is getting old but i feel the need to give my thoughts on the issue from a Callogi point of view
Was trying some fits to pure shield tank ( hit and run playstyle is my type of gameplay ) and i actually found a viable fit against those armor brick tanks. In some situations i found myself having the advantage with the help of terrain of course
The only problem with it is that i have to sacrifice 2 highslots, 3 lowslots to make it work somewhat good (with current TTK) And i really think a solution to this would be to buff shield regulation and shield recharge rate. Only tried on proto suit since it would not work on advanced cause lack of slots The fit:
2 Complex Shield extenders ( +72hp/module ) 2 "Weld" Basic shield recharger ( +25% recharge rate and -2% on shield hp/ module ) 1 Complex dmg modifier
1 Complex dampener ( to me its a must:P ) 1 "Tether" Complex shield regulator ( -25% recharge delay, -32,75 with skills ( 25x1,31=32,75 )) 2 Enhanced shield regulator ( -20% recharge delay, -26,2% with skills ( 20x1,31=26,2 ))
Shield hp: 361 Armor hp: 112 Ehp: 473 Shield recharge rate: 30,43 ( 20x1,5=30 ) Shield recharge delay: 2,19763854 sec ( 6 x 0,6725 x 0,738 x 0,738 ) Shield depleted recharge delay: 2,93018472 sec ( 8 x 0,6725 x 0,738 x 0,738 )
My skills are: Cal logi suit 5 (+25% shield reg efficiency) Shield regulation 3, (+6% shield reg efficiency) Shield recharger 0, ( no bonus ) Shield extension 5 (+10% shield ext efficiency)
As you can see the recharge delay is now 2 sec and 3 sec wich doesnt sound like much but it still only regens 30hp/s so i still need to hide for alot more time before i engage again, Now this is how the suit stat should look like with one complex regulator and 1 complex recharger if you ask me, with my skills. Not 3 Regulators and 2 Rechargers. Would be so much better to just fit 3 plates or 2 plates and a running module wich also have lower CPU/PG cost In a gunfight 3sec is an awful lot of time especially when the TTK is this low
So my conclusion... do NOT buff shield extenders, do NOT nerf armor plates but BUFF regulators and rechargers!
Thoughts on this?
the only problem i find on suits with shield regulators is that i am mostly unable to use them because i am dead before they go back up.
On an amarr suit with around 580 EHP (1 extender & 1 complex Reactive plate) rest all regulator stuff
it gets around 47 ish shield regen and reduces delays to like 65% while still being able to equip proto weapons, while this is alright in 1 vs 1 and you are rdy again for the next 1 vs 1 fast, every multi encounter leaves you dead before you can do much.
Dont get me wrong i ran 40/1 in that suit vs scrubs, but as soon as a good team breaks out, those 5xx EHP evaporate too fast to do something, i can only imagin how 4xx EHP feels like ...but it must not be awesome..
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
|
Saoa Scum
Judge Mercenaries
22
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 11:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
But my point with the thread is.. if they buffed regulation and recharge rate i wouldnt need to use all these slots to make it viable.. It was a test fit ( i normally use plates and extenders/dps as everybody else :P ) |
KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1440
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 11:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well, if you put 2 regulators and 1 recharger on a Caldari Assault suit, you'll get:
Delay - about 2.5 sec Recharge rate - 46.5 Shields 502
In a way its sort of an Assault suit specced to perform more like a scout suit.
It Works very well for my MD setup, but I wouldn't use it with an AR.
http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
|
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
446
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 11:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Well, if you put 2 regulators and 1 recharger on a Caldari Assault suit, you'll get:
Delay - about 2.5 sec Recharge rate - 46.5 Shields 502
In a way its sort of an Assault suit specced to perform more like a scout suit.
It Works very well for my MD setup, but I wouldn't use it with an AR.
Will try that fit with an assault shotty suit and be very careful about picking my engagements. |
Saoa Scum
Judge Mercenaries
22
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 11:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
I dont see how you calculated this.. i calculate the assault suit to at best 3,38seconds assuming its complex regulators and maxed skills (8 x 0,65 x 0,65) and still 3,3 sec is a too long time |
Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1174
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 11:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Well, if you put 2 regulators and 1 recharger on a Caldari Assault suit, you'll get:
Delay - about 2.5 sec Recharge rate - 46.5 Shields 502
In a way its sort of an Assault suit specced to perform more like a scout suit.
It Works very well for my MD setup, but I wouldn't use it with an AR.
That suit setup worked really well in Chromosone :)
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
|
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 12:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
well **** what do you want a recharge rate of 200 with a delay of 1/2? |
|
Mortedeamor
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
903
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 12:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
jesus thats some low ehp . |
Saoa Scum
Judge Mercenaries
22
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 12:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:well **** what do you want a recharge rate of 200 with a delay of 1/2?
Nope not really, but think of it like this.. 3seconds it how long does it take to kill anything?.. with 4xx ehp im down to armor if not dead before i can even react and need to hide for 3 seconds before i can engage again, on top of that i only regen 30hp/sec wich is not even 1 single hit...so basically i need to wait for 5 sec before i regen 30hp.. im not saying it should be more but however... Sacrificing 2 highslots AND 3 lowslots to just be a viable shield tank ( viable doesnt necessarily mean good, but managble ) is a bit much dont you think? |
Corbina Ninja
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
427
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 13:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
ARMOR
> Test Signature Please Ignore
|
Nightbird Aeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
370
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 15:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
2 problems:
1 - Logis that are shield-based should have have a higher base recharge rate than the armor based logis. 2 - Logis that are shield-based (anything shield based, really) need to sacrifice shield for damage, whereas armor tankers don't. This directly leads to people either armor tanking, or dual tanking. Therefore, there should be damage mods for low slots... perhaps not raw damage... perhaps ROF or recoil-dampening mods...
EVE: Bitter-vet, born 2005
DUST: Closed-beta vet: Always hopeful, frequently disappointed.
|
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
329
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 15:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well math seems off. Complex Regulators give -25%. Skill gives 10% increase. Cal logi gives 25%. So 1 complex is 25x1.1x1.25=34.375. Plus the 2 ADV 20x1.1x1.25=27.5 each.
Okay they have stacking penalties though....So it's 34.75 + (0.87x27.5)+(0.57x27.5)=-74.35 delay.
Logi has 6/8 sec delay. 6x0.2665=1.59, 8x0.2665=2.132. That's INSANELY fast regen, it's TTK that is too low.
The single Complex Dampener mod, does that get you below ADV scanners? Because skill is 10%. So 1 mod is 27.5. 50x0.725=36.25. Adv scanners are 36db so unless I'm missing something I'm not seeing how you escape them. It's better to throw a armor plate or biotic there.
You are using an energizer, not recharger. These are nearly worthless to shield tankers as you are forced to give up hp (from loss of slot and the 2% hit).
Same with DMG mods, avoid them unless you are getting hp from somewhere else.
Hard to balance shields right now because the 2 best weapons are better against shields. Also TTK is WAY too low to make it mean anything. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2368
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 15:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
The only imbalance between shields & armour is down to so many people tanking shields and then playing how an armour tanker should.
Shields are there for 1v1 encounters and really aren't suited to the Caldari protostomps that so many use them for.
No.
|
Zekain K
Expert Intervention Caldari State
621
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 16:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
My Cal assault shield tank suit is fitted like so.
3x complex extenders 1x complex shield recharger Ave scr Toxin smog M1 locust Avd scanner 1x enhanced CPU chip 2x tether regulators.
Shield skills are 5,5,4
Someone do the math on that please, I'm too lazy, and terrible at it.
CALDARI MASTER RACE
|
Saoa Scum
Judge Mercenaries
23
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 16:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:Well math seems off. Complex Regulators give -25%. Skill gives 10% increase. Cal logi gives 25%. So 1 complex is 25x1.1x1.25=34.375. Plus the 2 ADV 20x1.1x1.25=27.5 each.
Okay they have stacking penalties though....So it's 34.75 + (0.87x27.5)+(0.57x27.5)=-74.35 delay.
Logi has 6/8 sec delay. 6x0.2665=1.59, 8x0.2665=2.132. That's INSANELY fast regen, it's TTK that is too low.
The single Complex Dampener mod, does that get you below ADV scanners? Because skill is 10%. So 1 mod is 27.5. 50x0.725=36.25. Adv scanners are 36db so unless I'm missing something I'm not seeing how you escape them. It's better to throw a armor plate or biotic there.
You are using an energizer, not recharger. These are nearly worthless to shield tankers as you are forced to give up hp (from loss of slot and the 2% hit).
Same with DMG mods, avoid them unless you are getting hp from somewhere else.
Hard to balance shields right now because the 2 best weapons are better against shields. Also TTK is WAY too low to make it mean anything.
Its actually your math that is off... read the post carefully again and you might notice why.. And yes.. one complex dampener is enough try it yourself... And energizer provide alot more shield recharge then normal ones.. ( complex are 60%, wich i cannot use) again read the whole post
Your math is calculated with perfect skills... wich i dont have... so yes..your math is off
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
8069
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
-Give shields a penalty to shield recharge/depleted delay. -Rescale the extenders to 33/66/99 across the tiers. -Increase base shield recharge by 5~10 on every suit. -Reduce every suit's recharge/depleted delay by 2 seconds.
There, I just fixed shield tanking.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Kal Kronos
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
129
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:well **** what do you want a recharge rate of 200 with a delay of 1/2?
So like sitting on a couple proto triage hives or having a core focus glued to your ass? If shields are being designed to passive rep, then fine. They need to be able to passive rep at a competitive rate or we need the same remote reps, not tied to a vehicle they are removing, that during activation is almost impossible to competently pilot. And before you start that hit and run non-sense again, my raven doesn't need to hit and run, and it can receive remote reps... Your tank determines what damage you tank better, not your play-style.
Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
|
|
Logi Bro
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
2384
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think it could be better if the extenders worked like: Basic: 35 Enhanced: 50 Complex: 65
And then we added hybrid modules like the reactive plates. For example: +30 shields and +10% shield regen rate, or -15% shield delay and +15% shield recharge. Stuff like that would be nice. The lower tiers of shield modules seem mostly useless, and I think that is the problem.
Been Logistics since before it was cool.
|
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3066
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kal Kronos wrote: So like sitting on a couple proto triage hives or having a core focus glued to your ass? If shields are being designed to passive rep, then fine. They need to be able to passive rep at a competitive rate or we need the same remote reps, not tied to a vehicle they are removing, that during activation is almost impossible to competently pilot. And before you start that hit and run non-sense again, my raven doesn't need to hit and run, and it can receive remote reps... Your tank determines what damage you tank better, not your play-style. Your tank means both.
If you saw an enemy Gallente battlecruiser and you were a Caldari battlecruiser you'd be dumb as **** to get in range of that Gallente battlecruiser.
Caldari play it smart and take range, distance and countermeasures in their tactics. They are not brawlers in any means and should not be played as such. Even though shield rechargers could use a race specific buff you have a completely wrong mindset about this game. Each defense can not be played the same exact way and I think this is a major reason why many DUST players are having the complaints they do now because they don't realize that armor requires a completely different battle approach from shields.
A huge problem with this game is that we don't have the content necessary to fulfill each factions playstyle out fully so you're stuck with Caldari ground units having to fight outside their comfort zone (even though you could hardly tell a few months ago) and getting owned by everyone else, specifically the Gallente, whose weapons are made to be used with the Caldari in mind.
Without having the basic content in this game CCP should have had fixed and installed back in closed beta is the result of people trying to change the battle philosophies of each faction because not many things are fluid right now.
With the addition of the rail rifle Caldari units might gain some ground back in their comfort area, taking fights at med.-long range and using cover and not tap dancing around on the battlefield resulting in death and tears.
Sadly all I can say is that things will get better for shields SOONGäó.
And don't worry, armor was **** since the game came out up until the reduced the speed penalty three months back, it shouldn't take them that long to get shields up to par. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
5556
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Here's the fit I use on my Calassault:
CK.0
Duvolle Assault Rifle Core Locus Grenade
Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Recharger
Complex Shield Regulator Complex Shield Regulator Complex CPU Upgrade
Ishukone Gauged Nanohive
502 shields, 46 HP/s with a 2.5 second delay unless your shields are fully depleted. It has solid mobility and literally every time I poke my head out of cover my shields are full. It's actually great fun to be able to regen like that.
As much as people tend to whine about damage mods, I've never really found them necessary - a Duvolle can shred things perfectly well without any damage mods at all provided you can actually aim.
The currently low TTK and proliferation of anti-shield rifles means that it's perhaps not as good as it could be (and the enhanced/basic shield extenders are bad) but I think it could end up being perfectly balanced if the overwhelming superiority of rifles is fixed.
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 :: [one page] |