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Llast 326
An Arkhos
549
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Posted - 2013.11.25 02:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
God Hates Lags wrote:Llast 326 wrote:
Are these AR toting Heavies just med frames stepping up for the HP buff? Well some may be butGǪ
Since many of the Heavies with ARs that I have encountered have been Proto, I think that they are dedicated Heavies, who have given up the HMG in favour of the AR.
Just so you know you can fit more tank onto a gallant logo suit than you could possibly put on a heavy and still have enough CPU/PG to put a proto nano hive on that bad boy that repairs armor at four times the rate of four complex modules. I sincerely believe that the heavies with the AR are just fed up with the useless HMG and forge gun and have decided to make the switch. Personally, after I got killed in match by a heavy with an ishukone SMG that easily bested my boundless HMG, decided to try out the scrambler rifle. The difference was like night and day. I killed people twice as fast as usual and I was only using the advanced version with proficiency 0. I can't imagine what it would be like with prof V. The HMG definitely needs a buff of some sort, if not to range at least make it the king of CQC cause right now it can't even hold up against a med long range weapon like the scrambler rifle in CQC.
I've come up against the tanked out Deathlogi a few times (every time I play)
Even after the buff to HP they outdo the HeavyGǪ  damn (never checked the mathGǪ we are not on speaking terms right now)
The repvantage I expected to always stay butGǪ
So basically all these heavies are just lacking any viable heavy weapon choice in the med-long range.
I am apparently not the only fool
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ACE OF JOKERS
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
227
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Posted - 2013.11.25 02:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:ACE OF JOKERS wrote:Llast 326 wrote:So, i lurk around, I sneak, and I see thingsGǪ oh the things I have seenGǪ
I have seen more and more Heavies packing the AR, and this has me wondering a few things.
Are these AR toting Heavies just med frames stepping up for the HP buff? Well some may be butGǪ
Since many of the Heavies with ARs that I have encountered have been Proto, I think that they are dedicated Heavies, who have given up the HMG in favour of the AR.
So what do you Heavies think of the HMG compared to the AR?
What differences do you notice in the way HMG fires in comparison to the AR?
Obviously the range is better, do you find the fall off damage is less, more or the same with the AR?
Do you see a significant difference in performance areas, such as barrel climb, dispersion, etcGǪ (pretty sure you are all digging the reload time)
And lastly, why not the Scrambler Rifle instead of the AR (i may be wrong but does not the Sentinel bonus benefit the use of the SCR/)
Thoughts and info appreciated
No hidden agenda here just curious about this, and wondering if this info could benefit balancing the HMG out a bit. Im an AMARR ASSAULT.
I use the SCR.
I use the SCR with a PROFILE DAMPENED Assault suit.
When the enemy takes out proto scanners (that i cant avoid with my Amarr assault) I just take out a Sentinel A/1 Series with 2 Shield Energizers and 2 Armor reps and go nuts with an AR / SMG / M1 Grenades at 1200 HP....
Its just EZ mode. You have never busted out the Heavy against me  Wait i don't run scanners carry on  And If anyone wants to see how the Scrambler rifle should be usedGǪ find this guy in gameGǪ under his other name, he is the King of the Scrambler in my opinion 
This increases the amount of fans i have all the way up to 1.
XD
BTW:''So basically all these heavies are just lacking any viable heavy weapon choice in the med-long range.'' <=== This. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7964
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Posted - 2013.11.25 03:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Range and overall damage are just better with the AR. The heavy is too slow to dictate its engagements, so the HMG is very situational right now. The AR just comes out on top of so many engagements, mainly because you can get headshots more consistently, and most of your DPS is being applied. It's also more suited to advancing with cover, since you have more of a buffer against attacks...only slightly though, since lolgi's are basically heavies
Read / Vid / Stream
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1364
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Posted - 2013.11.25 03:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bukkake Bill wrote:I have HMG Prof.5 and AR Prof.3, I like them both for reasons. The HMG for me is the go-to weapon for any close range map. All these people complaining about the HMG sucking in CQC probably just suck with it. For that maps that are mid-long ranges I switch to AR/Scram because the HMG is useless at range. I like them both and it all depends on the map and what I feel like using at that time.
(Exactly) This.
I was on the Heavy/AR thing a while back, but got tired of getting outrun by my entire team. Now, everybody else is in Heavies and bricked Logis and I'm running ahead of them.
I haven't messed around with ScRs too much because the Standard version felt dinky.
And feel is a big part of it for me. That's why the Rifles over HMGs. The HMG feels like it sprays a beam of sand, where a GLU, GEK, or Duvolle feels like you're blasting them with stones.
The fits:
Always ADV Basic Frame
Always 2x Complex Damage Mods
Rifle: Enhanced Cardiac, Enhanced KinCat
HMG: 2x Enhanced Armor Plates
Cheeseburgers.
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Rusty Shallows
544
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:snip
So what do you Heavies think of the HMG compared to the AR?
What differences do you notice in the way HMG fires in comparison to the AR?
snip
Friday afternoon I was in my prototype Boundless HMG fit with HMG Proficiency at 4. My squad lead who was using up old fits (went 40+ kills/ 9 deaths that match) ask me if I had any Skill Points in Assault Rifles. The answer was "no." He promptly told me to get a militia AR because it has a better (game play) DPS than my Boundless. *sigh*
I've used Assault Rifles with my Main in other game builds, character resets & respecs. I sometimes use the Militia AR on my Minja with Standard Nova Knives. The AR is simply a better weapon in about every way with a notable exception that HMGs have a better visual field aiming.
The goal in the end becomes making the HMG work. To do this I engage in the classic Murder Taxi with a Red Barren twist. The gist is to try and gain the most favorable situations to engage and flee otherwise. This relates to the Original Post questions as follows: I need to start firing first if the other guy is an AR/ScR, the target must be heavily inside the HMG firing circle so range is crucial, if the other person is in a buffer shield tank suit (adv or proto) then I might have made a mistake picking that engagement since someone with good aim will get enough crits to negate any bonus the buffer had and he will out DPS me.
Use of the HMG compared to the AR with room clearing is a coin toss. It depends how much explosive spam is going on. How suicidal the guys with ARs are being? Is there a logi in my squad using a good rep tool? Are they proto-stomping? Can they quickly place sternum and head shots? Etc.
Use of the HMG compared to the AR in open ground is asking to lose a clone.
"She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now." SR-71
310k+ SP for +0.05m/s (>2in) on a Heavy. Totally worth it.
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DeadlyAztec11
2255
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Posted - 2013.11.25 10:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
The HMG is a good weapon to use. If you crouch and aim for the head, you kill way faster than you ever would with an AR. Problem is, that is too much work and not enough reward.
Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
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Shadow Archeus
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
153
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Posted - 2013.11.25 10:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
The problem with the hmg is that its too accurate and the reticle is very misleading......99% of your bullets land really close if not dead on the little dot in the middle making most strafing bunnyhoppers tough to hit.....which is why I've switched to ascr......muuuuuuuch better IMHO....think about a 1500hp suit that can reach out and peg your little ar asses........laser rifles are fun too but they're harder to use with a controller and require a little finesse but its funny to see assaults just stand in one spot going hey its a heavy in the open lemme just.......zzzzzzzzzaaaaaap.......dead assault |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
262
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Posted - 2013.11.25 10:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
noobsniper the 2nd wrote:I was a heavy and I can say that even with all your hmg skills maxed its still just a ok-ish weapon the ar and scrambler just are better in compared to the hmg in most areas sure the hmg rapes up close but other then its kinda uselss I shouldnt be able to kill a adv heavy in cqc with a toxin ar but I can imo the only real benifit is the large ammo pool srry for any grammar mistakes using my phone
Thats true as well for the shotgun.
I guess most heavies like to engage Targets outside their optimals. But on the other hand the live of a heavy is not easy where a shot gun scout has some sort of mobility and stealth to get in the SG optimals a heavy only has HP thats not ideal to get close withe the current TTK and the heavies speed (or lack off).
Maybe a supressive effect would help the HMG or the ability to hit with spread, right now yyou have to dead on target to hit with the HMG. Just imagine you could hit anything in that cone of fire...
So in general automatic Rifles (AR/SCR/AsCR) gives them more versatility and the ability to engage enemies at a more flexible range and now they can benefit more from their health in a direct encounter... |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
77
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Posted - 2013.11.25 11:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
So lately, I've been having more and more trouble having fun playing my heavy, so I've just been running around in my Dragonfly suit with a Toxin AR. Basically just derpin around, building up some ISK and SP, whatever. But when Winter Carnage came around, I decided to take up the MH-82 again and earn some Boundless. And oh someone's god, I couldn't hit a thing. I've been so spoiled by the AR! Ya know that one line in the HMG's description about how it's "an unmatched killing machine" or something? I think maybe that was originally intended for the AR.... Straight up Butterfree/Venomoth sprite mix-up.
But seriously, let me be perfectly clear here: I've got about 14.5 mil SP, and I'd say around 95% of that is put into heavy stuff. That includes level five in Armor and Shield Upgrades, Armor Plating and Repairing, as well as HMG Operation and Proficiency. And I am able to consistently outperform my heavy suits in my never-ending virtually SP-less Dragonfly suits in both war points and ISK. The damn thing only costs like 9,500 ISK total, and I've got literally 0 SP in light weapons, and it's doing better than my 50,000 ISK super-specced suit!
Something is seriously wrong here. True story. |
GRUNT 78
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2013.11.25 12:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:99% of heavies with AR's I've seen are not point defence, they are simply bad players that need tons of EHP to be competitive.  ,,dude,,really? And your " simply " a knucklehead,,,pfft...
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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES
806
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Posted - 2013.11.25 12:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Its an exploit spawned out of necessity.
HMG suck. Protostompers force users to go ultra high HP.
But why can't my Scout use an HMG? |
Niuvo
NECROM0NGERS
816
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Posted - 2013.11.25 12:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
I fear proto meds more than proto heavies (not good). Proto heavies I feel like I can take them on, but a med frame gets me scared. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
632
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Posted - 2013.11.25 13:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
I like it when redberry heavies use the AR
They don't stand a chance against my proto HMG with proficiency 5 and a complex damage mod.
Worst Thread of the Week
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
560
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Posted - 2013.11.26 01:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
Okay, so to sum upGǪ
What we have here is dedicated Heavies turning to the Light Weapons to fill the gap of med/long range weapons due to a hole in the Heavy Weapon choices. This relates to the effectiveness of the AR that is dominant on the field at this time (not going to go to much into that as I think that ground has been covered in many other threads in very messy ways)
The HMG is ineffective at handling the engagement range of the AR, which still has no drawbacks within the HMG effective range. The speed of the Heavy Suit inhibits the maneuverability needed to effectively dictate the engagement on the heavies terms with the limited range of the HMG.
Are any of you Heavies using KinCatz to compensate and is this effective?
Heavies who have switched to the AR seem to find it overwhelmingly easier to use. Being a lower investment weapon in comparison to the HMG does this seem right?
Heavies are already very SP invested in the suit choice, this coupled with the high investment cost into Heavy Weapons does not create a viable return for the investment.
Anything else the community want to add to this?
AndGǪ
Thank you all for a very good discussion about this topic 
I am apparently not the only fool
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