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Llast 326
An Arkhos
538
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Posted - 2013.11.24 18:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, i lurk around, I sneak, and I see thingsGǪ oh the things I have seenGǪ I have seen more and more Heavies packing the AR, and this has me wondering a few things.
Are these AR toting Heavies just med frames stepping up for the HP buff? Well some may be butGǪ
Since many of the Heavies with ARs that I have encountered have been Proto, I think that they are dedicated Heavies, who have given up the HMG in favour of the AR.
So what do you Heavies think of the HMG compared to the AR?
What differences do you notice in the way HMG fires in comparison to the AR?
Obviously the range is better, do you find the fall off damage is less, more or the same with the AR?
Do you see a significant difference in performance areas, such as barrel climb, dispersion, etcGǪ (pretty sure you are all digging the reload time)
And lastly, why not the Scrambler Rifle instead of the AR (i may be wrong but does not the Sentinel bonus benefit the use of the SCR/)
Thoughts and info appreciated
No hidden agenda here just curious about this, and wondering if this info could benefit balancing the HMG out a bit.
I am apparently not the only fool
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noobsniper the 2nd
Imbalance Lost
88
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was a heavy and I can say that even with all your hmg skills maxed its still just a ok-ish weapon the ar and scrambler just are better in compared to the hmg in most areas sure the hmg rapes up close but other then its kinda uselss I shouldnt be able to kill a adv heavy in cqc with a toxin ar but I can imo the only real benifit is the large ammo pool srry for any grammar mistakes using my phone
just call me scumbag noob
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SoTarian PoParrazi
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
320
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
I went SCR on my dedicated heavy. It's ... soo much better. 35 were my top games with HMG, sometimes a near 40, now I get near 60 sometimes. It's ridiculous the range SCR has and the Imperial one shot kill on anyone not in full proto or armor tanking.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ - Let's make a contract!
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DeadlyAztec11
2237
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
I am using the Militia Heavy & MAR(Militia AR) because it is the cheapest suit that can fight proto's.
Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
538
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
noobsniper the 2nd wrote:I was a heavy and I can say that even with all your hmg skills maxed its still just a ok-ish weapon the ar and scrambler just are better in compared to the hmg in most areas sure the hmg rapes up close but other then its kinda uselss I shouldnt be able to kill a adv heavy in cqc with a toxin ar but I can imo the only real benifit is the large ammo pool srry for any grammar mistakes using my phone So the ammo benefit of the HMG is not outweighed by the range of the AR or SCR, that makes sense. Also you say that you have an easier time in cqc with the AR than an ADV Heavy (using an HMG?) that is a bit disturbing. Are you engaging outside of optimal for the HMG?
I am apparently not the only fool
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Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
358
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Compared to other light weapons. The HMG is useless. It does not perform optimal in CqC either (most people just wont stand still when i shoot at them!). Due to its size it should be an medium to long range weapon like machine guns in real life and like in every other shooter game. The largest gun in the game a closecombat weapon? Might aswell bring a sledgehammer or an fireman axe to battle.
Livin' large!
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Rogue Saint
Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse
462
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
99% of heavies with AR's I've seen are not point defence, they are simply bad players that need tons of EHP to be competitive.
GôêGÆ+GÆ+GƦ
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
539
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
SoTarian PoParrazi wrote:I went SCR on my dedicated heavy. It's ... soo much better. 35 were my top games with HMG, sometimes a near 40, now I get near 60 sometimes. It's ridiculous the range SCR has and the Imperial one shot kill on anyone not in full proto or armor tanking. So what you are saying is kills went way up, and range is a big factor in this, coupled with the versatility of the SCR.
I am apparently not the only fool
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Bukkake Bill
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
I have HMG Prof.5 and AR Prof.3, I like them both for reasons. The HMG for me is the go-to weapon for any close range map. All these people complaining about the HMG sucking in CQC probably just suck with it. For that maps that are mid-long ranges I switch to AR/Scram because the HMG is useless at range. I like them both and it all depends on the map and what I feel like using at that time. |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
1325
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bukkake Bill wrote:I have HMG Prof.5 and AR Prof.3, I like them both for reasons. The HMG for me is the go-to weapon for any close range map. All these people complaining about the HMG sucking in CQC probably just suck with it. For that maps that are mid-long ranges I switch to AR/Scram because the HMG is useless at range. I like them both and it all depends on the map and what I feel like using at that time. Maybe it's because they don't have prof.5 with it?
"Please don't"
GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå
I Support SP Rollover, MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP !!!
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Bukkake Bill
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Flix Keptick wrote:Bukkake Bill wrote:I have HMG Prof.5 and AR Prof.3, I like them both for reasons. The HMG for me is the go-to weapon for any close range map. All these people complaining about the HMG sucking in CQC probably just suck with it. For that maps that are mid-long ranges I switch to AR/Scram because the HMG is useless at range. I like them both and it all depends on the map and what I feel like using at that time. Maybe it's because they don't have prof.5 with it? Damage Mods FTW breh. |
George Moros
Area 514
190
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:99% of heavies with AR's I've seen are not point defence, they are simply bad players that need tons of EHP to be competitive.
So, basically what you're saying is that either "good players" who want to use heavy dropsuit should use the HMG, because HMG sucks, or that heavies are meant only for "point defense" and should not even try to engage an enemy at medium-long ranges.
Anyway you put it, this simply sucks.
And one other thing... in any meaningful military definition of the term "point defense", the soldier performing that role is not meant to let the enemy get close and then engage. The purpose of point defense is to, first and foremost, prevent the enemy from getting close. So, even in that sense, HMG is not the "point defense" weapon. It is a bullet-spewing equivalent of a shotgun, with somewhat better range and terrible aiming mechanics (just search for the topic named "HMG accurately inaccurate" to see what I mean).
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
542
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bukkake Bill wrote:Flix Keptick wrote:Bukkake Bill wrote:I have HMG Prof.5 and AR Prof.3, I like them both for reasons. The HMG for me is the go-to weapon for any close range map. All these people complaining about the HMG sucking in CQC probably just suck with it. For that maps that are mid-long ranges I switch to AR/Scram because the HMG is useless at range. I like them both and it all depends on the map and what I feel like using at that time. Maybe it's because they don't have prof.5 with it? Damage Mods FTW breh. Does the HMG require Damage Mods to be effective?
I am apparently not the only fool
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Bukkake Bill
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:Bukkake Bill wrote:Flix Keptick wrote:Bukkake Bill wrote:I have HMG Prof.5 and AR Prof.3, I like them both for reasons. The HMG for me is the go-to weapon for any close range map. All these people complaining about the HMG sucking in CQC probably just suck with it. For that maps that are mid-long ranges I switch to AR/Scram because the HMG is useless at range. I like them both and it all depends on the map and what I feel like using at that time. Maybe it's because they don't have prof.5 with it? Damage Mods FTW breh. Does the HMG require Damage Mods to be effective? No I personally only use Damage mods on the Burst HMG's. If you are having a hard time getting the kill then slap one of them on. You need to practice with the HMG to be good with it. It isn't a pickup and go weapon like the AR. You need to change your playstyle a bit and play more defensive. Once you get the feel for it down than you can see how good it is IF you can use it. |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
542
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bukkake Bill wrote:Llast 326 wrote:Bukkake Bill wrote:Flix Keptick wrote:Bukkake Bill wrote:I have HMG Prof.5 and AR Prof.3, I like them both for reasons. The HMG for me is the go-to weapon for any close range map. All these people complaining about the HMG sucking in CQC probably just suck with it. For that maps that are mid-long ranges I switch to AR/Scram because the HMG is useless at range. I like them both and it all depends on the map and what I feel like using at that time. Maybe it's because they don't have prof.5 with it? Damage Mods FTW breh. Does the HMG require Damage Mods to be effective? No I personally only use Damage mods on the Burst HMG's. If you are having a hard time getting the kill then slap one of them on. You need to practice with the HMG to be good with it. It isn't a pickup and go weapon like the AR. You need to change your playstyle a bit and play more defensive. Once you get the feel for it down than you can see how good it is IF you can use it. I see. The reason I ask is the it would indicate the weapon to be UP to me. Myself, I won't be picking up a HMG anytime soonGǪ unless they let me fit em on my scout suit
I am apparently not the only fool
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Bukkake Bill
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think It could use a LITTLE damage buff but that is about it. The HMG is really good and everyone should give it a try. If you really want when I get on tonight I could give you some pointers. Once you got it down it's a really fun weapon to use. |
Jane Madson
DIRTY LAUNDRY 514
148
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
I still only use the hmg on my fatty. Still have fun with it. Makes no sense to carry an ar on the heavu because of the sp sink the suit os in the first place. If im going to use an ar, i just switch to a med. Frame
closed beta vet, lifetime fatty
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Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2445
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
George Moros wrote:Rogue Saint wrote:99% of heavies with AR's I've seen are not point defence, they are simply bad players that need tons of EHP to be competitive. So, basically what you're saying is that either "good players" who want to use heavy dropsuit should use the HMG, because HMG sucks, or that heavies are meant only for "point defense" and should not even try to engage an enemy at medium-long ranges. Anyway you put it, this simply sucks. And one other thing... in any meaningful military definition of the term "point defense", the soldier performing that role is not meant to let the enemy get close and then engage. The purpose of point defense is to, first and foremost, prevent the enemy from getting close. So, even in that sense, HMG is not the "point defense" weapon. It is a bullet-spewing equivalent of a shotgun, with somewhat better range and terrible aiming mechanics (just search for the topic named "HMG accurately inaccurate" to see what I mean).
A "good player" by definition must be a MedFrame and must carry a Rifle. This thread was created by a Scout on the topic of Heavies; odds are there are no "good players" here with whom we can interact. |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
542
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 21:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bukkake Bill wrote:I think It could use a LITTLE damage buff but that is about it. The HMG is really good and everyone should give it a try. If you really want when I get on tonight I could give you some pointers. Once you got it down it's a really fun weapon to use. I think I'll stick to my scoutiness, but feel free to use my uplinks to lay hellfire upon our enemies if we team up
I am apparently not the only fool
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GENERAL FCF
Sentinels of New Eden
14
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Posted - 2013.11.24 21:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Totally agree! I need support or feedback regarding the HEAVIES.
Please CCP: HMG needs sharpshooter upgrade.
HMG needs +2 dmg at advanced and +4 at prototype. (Or nerf AR's and SR's)
Sentinels need a base of 2,000/1,000 Shields/Armor respectively. (Sentinels are slow. And are supposed to absorb a barrage of fire, not be easily taken down by a militia AR.) (Or nerf AR's and SR's)
HMG needs a cool-down upgrade.
Breach Forge guns NEED more Direct damage! (Its impossible to kill a HAV that moves like an LAV and has shield and armor reps. You have to charge for 6sec's. You NEED to do more damage)
Sentinels need more factional Suits and WORTH WHILE ROLES! (Uprising 1.6 has NO incentives to skill into a role based dropsuit for Sentinels)
Thank you for your time! - CEO GENERAL FCF
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1439
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't get how people are able to use ARs on the heavy suit.
You run out of ammo too quickly with any automatic weapon, and you have no equipment slot...which is the primary reason to run HMG instead of AR.
Scrambler makes a bit more sense because you have a ton of ammo, but you have to be a skilled marksman to use it effectively as a heavy. Because you're slow, trying to run up and hipfire the thing isn't as easy as a medium suit.
Besides, if you put a piece of tape or make the dot in the center of the screen more aparent, and then just line up that dot with your enemy when using the HMG (especially if you use mouse and keyboard), you will find that the HMG is much more deadly than you might have thought, even at range.
Links:
List of Important Topics
I make logistics videos!
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
544
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
I suppose if you have a good set up with support from your team ammo would be less an issue.
I am apparently not the only fool
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taxi bastard
Minor Trueblood
19
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
in all honesty HMG has bellow par performance in 9/10 situations you will find yourself in. it may be fair to say that its useless in 5/10 situations. i used to be a heavy and they were dark days for anything besides corridor battles.
now i am a baby logi and loving it although i have shite all skills in light weapons i am finding the dren AR without AR skills a dream compaired to the HMG. before when i saw someone running at a short to medium range i would fear shooting them even standing still unless i had cover, now a couple of seconds later i see kill +50 . the sad truth is i knew that unless you waited for them to get into short range - the battle was a forgone conclusion.
knowing the hmg when i am in my tanked dren scout suit ( basic scout suit) i like to play with the heavys still using the HMG. get into reasonably close range - strafe back and forth and kill them without too much worry.
any med suit user wanting to feel the true powerless of the HMG should feel free to make an alt. i belevie the intial SP's will unlock it with the militia heavy suit. try all combo's of firing ...hip fire, zoom, crouched at different ranges. then replace that with the basic AR. watch the difference between how quick the enemy's life fades away at all ranges, then try moving targets to see the difference grow. |
Mortedeamor
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
842
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Posted - 2013.11.24 23:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
SoTarian PoParrazi wrote:I went SCR on my dedicated heavy. It's ... soo much better. 35 were my top games with HMG, sometimes a near 40, now I get near 60 sometimes. It's ridiculous the range SCR has and the Imperial one shot kill on anyone not in full proto or armor tanking. ad 30 m to that range and u can see how 1.7 is going to be hell |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
544
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Posted - 2013.11.24 23:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jane Madson wrote:I still only use the hmg on my fatty. Still have fun with it. Makes no sense to carry an ar on the heavu because of the sp sink the suit os in the first place. If im going to use an ar, i just switch to a med. Frame The Heavy suits are the biggest sp sink, on top of that the heavy weapons are as well. Seems to be that a balance for the investment is not apparent though. This seems to be true of a lot of the skill tree thoughGǪ lower sp investment items tend to be more powerful, even though it would seem the inverse should be true.
I am apparently not the only fool
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
547
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Posted - 2013.11.25 00:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:SoTarian PoParrazi wrote:I went SCR on my dedicated heavy. It's ... soo much better. 35 were my top games with HMG, sometimes a near 40, now I get near 60 sometimes. It's ridiculous the range SCR has and the Imperial one shot kill on anyone not in full proto or armor tanking. ad 30 m to that range and u can see how 1.7 is going to be hell Yes but Heavies are getting theGǪ. umGǪ. what are you getting againGǪ. Right the Shaft
I am apparently not the only fool
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ACE OF JOKERS
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
218
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Posted - 2013.11.25 00:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:So, i lurk around, I sneak, and I see thingsGǪ oh the things I have seenGǪ I have seen more and more Heavies packing the AR, and this has me wondering a few things.
Are these AR toting Heavies just med frames stepping up for the HP buff? Well some may be butGǪ
Since many of the Heavies with ARs that I have encountered have been Proto, I think that they are dedicated Heavies, who have given up the HMG in favour of the AR.
So what do you Heavies think of the HMG compared to the AR?
What differences do you notice in the way HMG fires in comparison to the AR?
Obviously the range is better, do you find the fall off damage is less, more or the same with the AR?
Do you see a significant difference in performance areas, such as barrel climb, dispersion, etcGǪ (pretty sure you are all digging the reload time)
And lastly, why not the Scrambler Rifle instead of the AR (i may be wrong but does not the Sentinel bonus benefit the use of the SCR/)
Thoughts and info appreciated
No hidden agenda here just curious about this, and wondering if this info could benefit balancing the HMG out a bit.
Im an AMARR ASSAULT. I use the SCR. I use the SCR with a PROFILE DAMPENED Assault suit.
When the enemy takes out proto scanners (that i cant avoid with my Amarr assault) I just take out a Sentinel A/1 Series with 2 Shield Energizers and 2 Armor reps and go nuts with an AR / SMG / M1 Grenades at 1200 HP....
Its just EZ mode. |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
548
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
ACE OF JOKERS wrote:Llast 326 wrote:So, i lurk around, I sneak, and I see thingsGǪ oh the things I have seenGǪ I have seen more and more Heavies packing the AR, and this has me wondering a few things.
Are these AR toting Heavies just med frames stepping up for the HP buff? Well some may be butGǪ
Since many of the Heavies with ARs that I have encountered have been Proto, I think that they are dedicated Heavies, who have given up the HMG in favour of the AR.
So what do you Heavies think of the HMG compared to the AR?
What differences do you notice in the way HMG fires in comparison to the AR?
Obviously the range is better, do you find the fall off damage is less, more or the same with the AR?
Do you see a significant difference in performance areas, such as barrel climb, dispersion, etcGǪ (pretty sure you are all digging the reload time)
And lastly, why not the Scrambler Rifle instead of the AR (i may be wrong but does not the Sentinel bonus benefit the use of the SCR/)
Thoughts and info appreciated
No hidden agenda here just curious about this, and wondering if this info could benefit balancing the HMG out a bit. Im an AMARR ASSAULT. I use the SCR. I use the SCR with a PROFILE DAMPENED Assault suit.
When the enemy takes out proto scanners (that i cant avoid with my Amarr assault) I just take out a Sentinel A/1 Series with 2 Shield Energizers and 2 Armor reps and go nuts with an AR / SMG / M1 Grenades at 1200 HP....
Its just EZ mode. You have never busted out the Heavy against me Wait i don't run scanners carry on And If anyone wants to see how the Scrambler rifle should be usedGǪ find this guy in gameGǪ under his other name, he is the King of the Scrambler in my opinion
I am apparently not the only fool
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OliX PRZESMIEWCA
Legion of Eden Covert Intervention
0
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Posted - 2013.11.25 01:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
GENERAL FCF wrote:Totally agree! I need support or feedback regarding the HEAVIES.
Please CCP: HMG needs sharpshooter upgrade.
HMG needs +2 dmg at advanced and +4 at prototype. (Or nerf AR's and SR's)
Sentinels need a base of 2,000/1,000 Shields/Armor respectively. (Sentinels are slow. And are supposed to absorb a barrage of fire, not be easily taken down by a militia AR.) (Or nerf AR's and SR's)
HMG needs a cool-down upgrade.
Breach Forge guns NEED more Direct damage! (Its impossible to kill a HAV that moves like an LAV and has shield and armor reps. You have to charge for 6sec's. You NEED to do more damage)
Sentinels need more factional Suits and WORTH WHILE ROLES! (Uprising 1.6 has NO incentives to skill into a role based dropsuit for Sentinels)
Thank you for your time! - CEO GENERAL FCF
Putting more shield and armor on heavy makes sense only if they could not use any other primary weapon except heavy type. I don't want to even think about 3000 ehp sentinel with ar or scr. I'm really looking forward to see all 4 different heavy suits. Come back please with shield/armor types. All with different modules slots and race bonuses.
Hmg should be low trackin long range weapon. Good for defending point and forcing enemies to stay on higher distance but very weak against redberry who will sneak near us. Also I wish to see hmg with smaller rof and range but with devastating power (something like this one in Unreal Tournament).
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God Hates Lags
Red Star. EoN.
441
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Posted - 2013.11.25 01:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:
Are these AR toting Heavies just med frames stepping up for the HP buff? Well some may be butGǪ
Since many of the Heavies with ARs that I have encountered have been Proto, I think that they are dedicated Heavies, who have given up the HMG in favour of the AR.
Just so you know you can fit more tank onto a gallant logo suit than you could possibly put on a heavy and still have enough CPU/PG to put a proto nano hive on that bad boy that repairs armor at four times the rate of four complex modules. I sincerely believe that the heavies with the AR are just fed up with the useless HMG and forge gun and have decided to make the switch.
Personally, after I got killed in match by a heavy with an ishukone SMG that easily bested my boundless HMG, decided to try out the scrambler rifle. The difference was like night and day. I killed people twice as fast as usual and I was only using the advanced version with proficiency 0. I can't imagine what it would be like with prof V.
The HMG definitely needs a buff of some sort, if not to range at least make it the king of CQC cause right now it can't even hold up against a med long range weapon like the scrambler rifle in CQC.
Doubles ISK
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