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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
3
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Posted - 2013.11.23 20:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP, you seem to want to be able to bring in funds to help support your existence. You have been doing this by trying to sell items through AUR sales; and while sometimes it seems you have things too expensive, people have been doing this already.
Well here is an idea, that I think many would be inclined to except. of course there will be many that will oppose this too, but by allowing someone to have a weapon subscription BPO (sBPO) and a dropsuit of choice (sBPO) while they are paying a monthly subscription, you would be able to pretty much depend on a monthly stipend.
While I know that there would be many that would call this a "Pay to Win" as they already do, I have not thought of what you have been doing as such, but rather a "Pay to Advance" system that helps people advance faster.
Of course having a monthly subscription system you would have to make it affordable, and you can get an idea of a price by observing what you get with the Plus system that PSN has in operation. So for instance a subscription for 30,000 AUR you get a 30 day active booster and a type of sBPO for a dropsuit of choice and an weapon of choice (including an officer weapon.) If you drop your subscription, you loose these items.
If someone still wanted a passive booster, then they would still need to purchase them the same way that is currently in operation.
Of course, for those that do not want to pay a monthly subscription, you would still have all the items for sale as is currently in operation, and for those that do not want to pay anything, they still get to play the way they have been playing - by not having to make any purchases.
I think that this might be a good option to try to make some (and I think many) people happy, and at the same time, give your project a regular stipend that you could depend on to help you continue your operations.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
329
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Posted - 2013.11.23 20:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like it...flexible and gives options to casual and serious players. You can either pay as you go for accelerated SP and some items like now or subscribe for normally purchased items.
What do you think the price point should be for this... EVE subscription is about $15 per month in the US, correct? Were you looking at that or something a little less? I think $10-12 per month might work. I don't know how much the PSN Plus costs on the ps3 but that would need to eventually be factored in. |
God Hates Lags
Red Star.
EoN.
426
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Posted - 2013.11.23 21:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
I like this idea, it's like an all you can eat buffet of weapons.
Doubles ISK
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
5
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Posted - 2013.11.23 21:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:I like it...flexible and gives options to casual and serious players. You can either pay as you go for accelerated SP and some items like now or subscribe for normally purchased items.
What do you think the price point should be for this... EVE subscription is about $15 per month in the US, correct? Were you looking at that or something a little less? I think $10-12 per month might work. I don't know how much the PSN Plus costs on the ps3 but that would need to eventually be factored in.
I am not sure, that would have to be worked out. For instance, someone just starting couldn't use "Proto" gear, so maybe that would be the lowest priced, and as you advanced, you could upgrade your subscription and thereby upgrade your equipment.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
|
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
5
|
Posted - 2013.11.23 21:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
God Hates Lags wrote:I like this idea, it's like an all you can eat buffet of weapons.
lol... didn't even think of it this way... very funny 
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
|
calvin b
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
990
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Posted - 2013.11.23 21:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
This would be the final nail in the coffin of this game. I have spent enough on this game and cannot justify spending anymore, so if it did go this way I would leave.
Do not eat the yellow snow
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ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
506
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Posted - 2013.11.23 21:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Officer weapon BPOs?
You can't possibly be serious about this.
"NO FULL RESPECS; ONLY FOR VEHICLE SKILLS CHANGED TREE!"
Vehicle users : "lol gonna put it into infantry skills"
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10567
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Posted - 2013.11.23 22:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
CPM been in discussion about enabling a subscription program and what sort of offerings could be made in it, however it shouldn't be 'an exclusive' club to the point subscribers get things the light and freemium buyers cannot obtain.
Either way talks are ongoing.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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David Spd
Caldari State
95
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Posted - 2013.11.23 22:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nothing good can come from a subscription option. Basically you'll have all the EVE players paying for two monthly subs and think they're entitled to something similar to what EVE is offering.
And IWS you can't honestly believe CCP will be able to "properly" implement such a thing, do you? Their track record on "premium" content for Dust is atrocious.
Not to mention seemingly all decisions in the marketing area are just pants backwards batshit crazy. I've said it before & I'll say it again: the last thing we need is for two EVE Online MMOs. Maybe a subscription option would be feasible much MUCH later down the line (as in, years from now) when CCP finally has content to justify paying monthly, and has finally decided what balance should be like...
But talking about and even considering such a thing now is just ludicrous.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1151
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Posted - 2013.11.23 22:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
So another DCUO yaaay!!! We all know how they make their money.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
330
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Posted - 2013.11.23 22:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM been in discussion about enabling a subscription program and what sort of offerings could be made in it, however it shouldn't be 'an exclusive' club to the point subscribers get things the light and freemium buyers cannot obtain.
Either way talks are ongoing.
That's pretty much where my heads at...optimizing subscriptions for consistent players that essentially "fet their money's worth" anyway, HOWEVER, we must protect the free to play aspect so that you can be a viable player and not spend a dime if you wish. Might take you a steeper grind but there should be no direct items or skills that don't have ISK or AUR equivalent in reach of non-subscription players. |
Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
1533
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Posted - 2013.11.23 22:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Please don't
Seriously
Greedy Bastards' Hate Lord
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1918
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
$15 per month gets you active and passive skill boosts for the duration. That's close to buying the boosters now but less of a hassle.
Handing out officer gear or other special gear is both unfair and the subscriber will probably end up with a stack of gear they can't use. Plus, could probably be sold for far too much.
// Logistics / Scout / Dropship Pilot Trainee // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10569
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
David Spd wrote:Nothing good can come from a subscription option. Basically you'll have all the EVE players paying for two monthly subs and think they're entitled to something similar to what EVE is offering.
And IWS you can't honestly believe CCP will be able to "properly" implement such a thing, do you? Their track record on "premium" content for Dust is atrocious.
Not to mention seemingly all decisions in the marketing area are just pants backwards batshit crazy. I've said it before & I'll say it again: the last thing we need is two EVE Online MMOs. Maybe a subscription option would be feasible much MUCH later down the line (as in, years from now) when CCP finally has content to justify paying monthly, and has finally decided what balance should be like...
But talking about and even considering such a thing now is just ludicrous.
You have to consider that the CPM just recently managed to secure marketing's ear, turnaround will take some time. I can't change the past but influencing the future is something the CPM is doing. We're just slightly upset there is no racial parity yet or full lineup of roles for most of the races.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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David Spd
Caldari State
95
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Might take you a steeper grind but there should be no direct items or skills that don't have ISK or AUR equivalent in reach of non-subscription players.
That is the exactly the reason why subscription option is a bad idea. That's one of the "most viable" options when considering a "premium" service for Dust. increasing SP gains in one way or another.
Gaps between newbies and vets is all ready the worst part of experiencing Dust. Casuals might pay for consistent SP gains tied to a monthly "premium" option but Hardcore elitists that live, breathe, eat and **** Dust will be the primary sales of such a thing. People with more SP get even further ahead from the rest and just because they can afford to pay for it.
It might not be "pay to win" but it certainly doesn't create any appeal for someone that's getting six-man proto stomped in every game he plays.
Locking content behind a pay wall will doubtingly cause Dust to die a slow, painful death with nothing but bitter newbies and vets alike spitting venom at the paying players that get better rewards for doing the same thing that others are doing, so that's not even an option. People all ready fight like cats & dogs on these forums and doing anything that even slightly smells of "pay to win" will cause a never ending feud that will likely last until the end of time.
In my opinion (and experience with free to play) the most viable options to offer with subscriptions with least backlash is:
A. Increased gains (with free having no "penalties")
B. Early access to gameplay content (with no permanent exclusive game impacting items)
C. "Free" bought currency monthly just for having a subscription
These ideas are still incredibly bad due to the unique nature of Dust for the following reasons:
A. Creating an even larger SP gap (and awarding more SP for doing nothing) contradicts all the efforts CCP is putting into lessening the "SP sinks"
B. Paywall limits players taking part in content. Game went into release with bare minimum and forcing people to pay to get things they want in a reasonable timeframe is hard to justify or excuse
C. Getting "free" aurum each month might be nice for newbies but "vets" don't have need for most Proto. consumables. It also creates a similar issue CCP recently address by BPO removal: free ISK without risk to the player.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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xLuca Brasi
DUST University
Ivy League
64
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:Nothing good can come from a subscription option. Basically you'll have all the EVE players paying for two monthly subs and think they're entitled to something similar to what EVE is offering.
And IWS you can't honestly believe CCP will be able to "properly" implement such a thing, do you? Their track record on "premium" content for Dust is atrocious.
Not to mention seemingly all decisions in the marketing area are just pants backwards batshit crazy. I've said it before & I'll say it again: the last thing we need is two EVE Online MMOs. Maybe a subscription option would be feasible much MUCH later down the line (as in, years from now) when CCP finally has content to justify paying monthly, and has finally decided what balance should be like...
But talking about and even considering such a thing now is just ludicrous. You have to consider that the CPM just recently managed to secure marketing's ear, turnaround will take some time. I can't change the past but influencing the future is something the CPM is doing. We're just slightly upset there is no racial parity yet or full lineup of roles for most of the races.
maybe they are waiting to add this until they can tie it in to a good excuse to remove all our bpo's.
SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
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David Spd
Caldari State
95
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:Nothing good can come from a subscription option. Basically you'll have all the EVE players paying for two monthly subs and think they're entitled to something similar to what EVE is offering.
And IWS you can't honestly believe CCP will be able to "properly" implement such a thing, do you? Their track record on "premium" content for Dust is atrocious.
Not to mention seemingly all decisions in the marketing area are just pants backwards batshit crazy. I've said it before & I'll say it again: the last thing we need is two EVE Online MMOs. Maybe a subscription option would be feasible much MUCH later down the line (as in, years from now) when CCP finally has content to justify paying monthly, and has finally decided what balance should be like...
But talking about and even considering such a thing now is just ludicrous. You have to consider that the CPM just recently managed to secure marketing's ear, turnaround will take some time. I can't change the past but influencing the future is something the CPM is doing. We're just slightly upset there is no racial parity yet or full lineup of roles for most of the races.
I'm all for discussing options, but please don't press CCP for monthly subscriptions. The risk vs. reward (at least in my opinion) is just too heavily favoring risk right now and the last thing CCP needs is more ammunition from their all ready bitter playerbase.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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Suanar Daranaus
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
62
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Don't think it's a good idea. This game started free and lets keep it that way. If you have the money for a subsription then you have the money for AUR. Don't ruin a good thing. |
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
5
|
Posted - 2013.11.23 23:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
calvin b wrote:This would be the final nail in the coffin of this game. I have spent enough on this game and cannot justify spending anymore, so if it did go this way I would leave.
Now this I really do not understand, as you would still be able to play the way you have been playing and it would be those that are willing to pay a subscription that would be providing the "free" to other players.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
|
zibathy numbertwo
Nox Aeterna Security
272
|
Posted - 2013.11.23 23:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sorry, but this is a bad idea. BPOs are bad for the economy. Period. CCP will not do this.
Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
5
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM been in discussion about enabling a subscription program and what sort of offerings could be made in it, however it shouldn't be 'an exclusive' club to the point subscribers get things the light and freemium buyers cannot obtain.
Either way talks are ongoing.
This wouldn't either, as of right now people do get "free" officers weapons. This was a suggestion to include an incentive for possibly a premium subscription.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
|
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1919
|
Posted - 2013.11.23 23:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:We're just slightly upset there is no racial parity yet or full lineup of roles for most of the races.
I've looked at the credits and the DUST team doesn't seem that small. Why is it taking so long to deliver these assets? I'm not a game dev but I'd think they could ship a whole class of weapons across racial lines every two to three months.
// Logistics / Scout / Dropship Pilot Trainee // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
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David Spd
Caldari State
95
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:calvin b wrote:This would be the final nail in the coffin of this game. I have spent enough on this game and cannot justify spending anymore, so if it did go this way I would leave. Now this I really do not understand, as you would still be able to play the way you have been playing and it would be those that are willing to pay a subscription that would be providing the "free" to other players.
Despite "goodwill" free players are an integral part of free to play success. Free & paying players share a symbiotic relationship
Paying players' numbers are typically lower than free players in any free to play title. Free players are CONTENT for paying players. Free players are fickle and easily upset. Paying players usually less so. If you anger the free players they leave (yes, "i'm leaving" threads are normally just attention whoring, but players do actually leave without saying anything). Leaving less content for paying players.
People playing monthly for a free to play title are typically in it until the end, so as free players leave due to unhappiness the amount of people in a game slowly falls off until there's only a couple hundred (oftentimes less) people playing at any given time.
Dust may have solid numbers now but the general happiness level seems quite low right now. There is no guarantee numbers will go up, nor is there guarantee they will go down but the amount of hostility also influences player retention.
All of the games I've seen die haven't done it overnight and it sometimes takes years for a game to finally shut down, but if free players (or "one time customers) are constantly disgruntled then it's just a matter of time.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
938
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
I couldn't see someone who wanted to play a scout or a heavy subscribing. And once you have 20 mil plus SPs, why bother subscribing? |
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
9
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Posted - 2013.11.23 23:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
David Spd wrote:KayDidYue wrote:calvin b wrote:This would be the final nail in the coffin of this game. I have spent enough on this game and cannot justify spending anymore, so if it did go this way I would leave. Now this I really do not understand, as you would still be able to play the way you have been playing and it would be those that are willing to pay a subscription that would be providing the "free" to other players. Despite "goodwill" free players are an integral part of free to play success. Free & paying players share a symbiotic relationship Paying players' numbers are typically lower than free players in any free to play title. Free players are CONTENT for paying players. Free players are fickle and easily upset. Paying players usually less so. If you anger the free players they leave (yes, "i'm leaving" threads are normally just attention whoring, but players do actually leave without saying anything). Leaving less content for paying players. People paying monthly for a free to play title are typically in it until the end, so as free players leave due to unhappiness the amount of people in a game slowly falls off until there's only a couple hundred (oftentimes less) people playing at any given time. Dust may have solid numbers now but the general happiness level seems quite low right now. There is no guarantee numbers will go up, nor is there guarantee they will go down but the amount of hostility also influences player retention. All of the games I've seen die haven't done it overnight and it sometimes takes years for a game to finally shut down, but if free players (or "one time customers) are constantly disgruntled then it's just a matter of time.
Actually, the numbers aren't solid right now. Eve players are agitated that the numbers are so low, and also that the quality of the players (which include their attitude) are very low compared to what they where told the numbers would be.
If you are looking at the numbers when you are logging in, don't think that that is the number of DUST players, because that is not the number of dust only players.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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David Spd
Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2013.11.23 23:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:KayDidYue wrote:calvin b wrote:This would be the final nail in the coffin of this game. I have spent enough on this game and cannot justify spending anymore, so if it did go this way I would leave. Now this I really do not understand, as you would still be able to play the way you have been playing and it would be those that are willing to pay a subscription that would be providing the "free" to other players. Despite "goodwill" free players are an integral part of free to play success. Free & paying players share a symbiotic relationship Paying players' numbers are typically lower than free players in any free to play title. Free players are CONTENT for paying players. Free players are fickle and easily upset. Paying players usually less so. If you anger the free players they leave (yes, "i'm leaving" threads are normally just attention whoring, but players do actually leave without saying anything). Leaving less content for paying players. People paying monthly for a free to play title are typically in it until the end, so as free players leave due to unhappiness the amount of people in a game slowly falls off until there's only a couple hundred (oftentimes less) people playing at any given time. Dust may have solid numbers now but the general happiness level seems quite low right now. There is no guarantee numbers will go up, nor is there guarantee they will go down but the amount of hostility also influences player retention. All of the games I've seen die haven't done it overnight and it sometimes takes years for a game to finally shut down, but if free players (or "one time customers) are constantly disgruntled then it's just a matter of time. Actually, the numbers aren't solid right now. Eve players are agitated that the numbers are so low, and also that the quality of the players (which include their attitude) are very low compared to what they where told the numbers would be. If you are looking at the numbers when you are logging in, don't think that that is the number of DUST players, because that is not the number of dust only players.
Even more reason for CCP to tread VERY lightly then.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
9
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Posted - 2013.11.24 00:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
David Spd wrote:
Even more reason for CCP to tread VERY lightly then.
Oh I do agree with this, as it should be well discussed; which IMHO the discussion should be include the entire community as I believe that if left to them alone, it could be the straw that breaks...
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
|
David Spd
Caldari State
98
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Posted - 2013.11.24 00:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:
Even more reason for CCP to tread VERY lightly then.
Oh I do agree with this, as it should be well discussed; which IMHO the discussion should be include the entire community as I believe that if left to them alone, it could be the straw that breaks...
Agreed but it doesn't seem like CCP's style, unfortunately...
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10576
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 00:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:
Even more reason for CCP to tread VERY lightly then.
Oh I do agree with this, as it should be well discussed; which IMHO the discussion should be include the entire community as I believe that if left to them alone, it could be the straw that breaks...
Well if you want to talk about what you think a subscription program would look like I am all ears.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1358
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 03:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Double the current content and a tangible Eve/Dust connection and then, maybe you can sell subscriptions.
This is another year out, minimum.
Again, something probably not to even begin to consider until the PS4 port is ready to roll.
Cheeseburgers.
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1016
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Posted - 2013.11.24 03:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:So for instance a subscription for 30,000 AUR you get a 30 day active booster and a type of sBPO for a dropsuit of choice and an weapon of choice (including an officer weapon.)
So, unlimited proto Gallente suits with Balac's for the subbers to crush everyone else with?
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
332
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Posted - 2013.11.24 05:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Double the current content and a tangible Eve/Dust connection and then, maybe you can sell subscriptions.
This is another year out, minimum.
Again, something probably not to even begin to consider until the PS4 port is ready to roll.
Legit. +1
That said, I would be ok with offering a subscription that came with active/passive boosters and 25x random weapons, equipment or dropsuits for approximately a 25% discount off single purchase price in the store. Essentially exactly what I get now but at a price break in exchange for the subscription. |
DeadlyAztec11
Gallente Federation
2226
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 05:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
If this was implemented. I would walk out of this game and never look back. I would even delete my character.
Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
165
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Posted - 2013.11.24 05:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
Honestly, I kind of wish Dust had just a regular monthly subscription. That way, we as customers would have a lot more say in what goes on. People leaving wouldn't be no big deal; that directly hurts CCPs bottom line. Dust would get way more attention if paying customers started to leave. |
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
9
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Posted - 2013.11.24 18:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:
Even more reason for CCP to tread VERY lightly then.
Oh I do agree with this, as it should be well discussed; which IMHO the discussion should be include the entire community as I believe that if left to them alone, it could be the straw that breaks... Well if you want to talk about what you think a subscription program would look like I am all ears.
Personally, I think that a subscription service would give a subscriber something more than what others get - as an incentive and reward for being a subscriber; similar to the PSN Plus system. Furthermore, because of the limitations of the game, there could be a multi-tiered subscription like cable companies and phone companies have, where the higher your plan the more services and options you get for the subscription.
As far as being restrictive as to only having that which can be only purchased through the market, as Jaysyn Larrisen mentioned, I would not necessarily agree to this as other subscription services have things that you can't purchase as a "stand-alone" or a "ala-carte" service.
I do think that a discount for the Marketplace would be good, but not a 25% discount as Jaysyn said, unless that was on a higher subscription plan. Maybe have it tiered where each tier would have a different discount amount.
Right now, I regularly purchase Boosters. So for me a subscription would have to include some type of booster. I also purchase my proto suits and sr rifles to continue playing. I do have my "BPO" suits and equipment, but very seldom do I use these as they do not allow me the abilities to take on others the way I like to take them on in battle. For me, it I could purchase officer weapons, I would - just as I do proto gear. Do I care if I loose my proto gear in a battle? Not really because I just go get some more. While I know some people have difficulty replacing their equipment, I do not seem to have that problem.
For me to be a subscriber, the subscription would have to have things that interest me; things that I feel I need. Just as I pay a cable company for the Internet connection, I do not also subscribe to their "TV" service, nor their "telephone" service. Just as I have my cell phone, I only have the basic service, and do not pay for internet service on the phone. So what I am saying here is that for me to pay a subscription, they need to offer me something that makes it worth my while. The same would have to go for DUST. More-over, I do not purchase the PSN Plus system; while they offer many great deals and discounts, none of them interest me. So for this to succeed DUST would need to include things (through different levels, possibly) that people would want to use.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 22:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'm also curious as to what others think would be needed to make a subscription option more appealing.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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Sports Dude
ShoGunnerz
262
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 23:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
I would stop playing if they added a monthly subscription |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10674
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 23:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM been in discussion about enabling a subscription program and what sort of offerings could be made in it, however it shouldn't be 'an exclusive' club to the point subscribers get things the light and freemium buyers cannot obtain.
Either way talks are ongoing. This wouldn't either, as of right now people do get "free" officers weapons. This was a suggestion to include an incentive for possibly a premium subscription.
hell no, free officer weapons is like furthest thing from most of the cpm's minds, we know how much officer gear sells for in new eden we wouldn't want these things dropping that much more often.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10674
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 23:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:
Even more reason for CCP to tread VERY lightly then.
Oh I do agree with this, as it should be well discussed; which IMHO the discussion should be include the entire community as I believe that if left to them alone, it could be the straw that breaks... Well if you want to talk about what you think a subscription program would look like I am all ears. Personally, I think that a subscription service would give a subscriber something more than what others get - as an incentive and reward for being a subscriber; similar to the PSN Plus system. Furthermore, because of the limitations of the game, there could be a multi-tiered subscription like cable companies and phone companies have, where the higher your plan the more services and options you get for the subscription. As far as being restrictive as to only having that which can be only purchased through the market, as Jaysyn Larrisen mentioned, I would not necessarily agree to this as other subscription services have things that you can't purchase as a "stand-alone" or a "ala-carte" service. I do think that a discount for the Marketplace would be good, but not a 25% discount as Jaysyn said, unless that was on a higher subscription plan. Maybe have it tiered where each tier would have a different discount amount. Right now, I regularly purchase Boosters. So for me a subscription would have to include some type of booster. I also purchase my proto suits and sr rifles to continue playing. I do have my "BPO" suits and equipment, but very seldom do I use these as they do not allow me the abilities to take on others the way I like to take them on in battle. For me, it I could purchase officer weapons, I would - just as I do proto gear. Do I care if I loose my proto gear in a battle? Not really because I just go get some more. While I know some people have difficulty replacing their equipment, I do not seem to have that problem. I would like to see something affordable for boosting my other characters. As of now, I buy boosters for my main char, and not my other chars because they are too expensive for what you get; I am not paying 28000 for less than half the booster power that I collect on my main char - even though I would like to get boosters for them. For me to be a subscriber, the subscription would have to have things that interest me; things that I feel I need. Just as I pay a cable company for the Internet connection, I do not also subscribe to their "TV" service, nor their "telephone" service. Just as I have my cell phone, I only have the basic service, and do not pay for internet service on the phone. So what I am saying here is that for me to pay a subscription, they need to offer me something that makes it worth my while. The same would have to go for DUST. More-over, I do not purchase the PSN Plus system; while they offer many great deals and discounts, none of them interest me. So for this to succeed DUST would need to include things (through different levels, possibly) that people would want to use.
How would you address the red roping? One of my larger issues
A quick example would be world of warcraft red rope, new zone opens up, but only if you pay now (and wow has been slowly merging its oldest expansions into basic wow so it fits the condition of red roping.)
I think a discount is safe to offer on monthly things.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
How would you address the red roping? One of my larger issues
A quick example would be world of warcraft red rope, new zone opens up, but only if you pay now (and wow has been slowly merging its oldest expansions into basic wow so it fits the condition of red roping.)
I think a discount is safe to offer on monthly things.
I am not familiar with "red roping" and this being my first fps type of game, I am also not familiar with warcraft, or "wow" other than hearing the name warcraft.
So I cannot comment (address) this "issue."
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:15:00 -
[41] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KayDidYue wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM been in discussion about enabling a subscription program and what sort of offerings could be made in it, however it shouldn't be 'an exclusive' club to the point subscribers get things the light and freemium buyers cannot obtain.
Either way talks are ongoing. This wouldn't either, as of right now people do get "free" officers weapons. This was a suggestion to include an incentive for possibly a premium subscription. hell no, free officer weapons is like furthest thing from most of the cpm's minds, we know how much officer gear sells for in new eden we wouldn't want these things dropping that much more often. The CPM should keep pushing the possibilities of vanity/visual benefits as a path of monetisation. With heavy emphasis on corps in and corporate identity (to the point of entire corps posting and acting almost exclusively in-character (grr goons!)) in New Eden i see a potent market for several offerings, such as:
Personal and Corpwide custom suit/vehicle paint schemes. Can be made available in tiers e.g.:
I) Generic colors from limited pallette
II) Above with extended pallete and simple patterns (classic camos, fractals etc.)
III) All of the above, alternate material shaders (flat/worn, rusted, carbon, gold ) and the ability to paint parts individually for "one of a kind" designs (client performance concerns?).
Alliance ads:
I)Alliance Banners in PC/FW war barges during selected timezones (open corp info when interacted with)
II) Corp/Alliance description on Merc quarter TV
Making all of those tradeable items (like PLEX) would allow corp leaders to pay for them through taxes and hopefully alleviate the "who's paying for it?" issue. It keeps those features from being locked behind a solid paywall aswell.
To get to the topic CCP could also bundle these with subs:
"Mercenary" sub nets one 30day booster and tier I personal colors, Some AUR.
"Veteran" sub includes one 30day booster+ tier II personal and tier I corp colors, Some AUR
"Elite" sub includes tier III customization and banners (+benefits for corpmates? 1day boosters, even?!).
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
As far as officer weapons, and you claiming that they would not even consider this, is that truth be told, the only thing that I really like and would want is the scope that the thale has; if the ishukone had this scope I would be happy. The scopes on the sr's that I purchase are horrible, as when a target is over a certain distance, the targeting dot is too big.
Also, i'm not (personally) that interested in a discount on purchases, as most items that are placed on the market are not worth the purchase price, nor interest me because they have no defining difference from an isk item (other than being able to use it sooner from skilling into an item. But I would be more interested in having my boosters. If they were automatically renewed, that would be of more interest to me - but just this (automated booster renewal) would not be enough for me to go with a subscription.
Just a quick example. I wanted the Omega Passive Boster, but they were too much for what you get, so I did not purchase them, and instead, just purchased the regular booster when the one I had running ran out.
Something else that might peak my interest:
Just as the system only allows you to only have one of your chars to have passive booster active, allow other chars to use a special booster that gives more points. IE 1/2 of what your primary char get with a regular booster, so that rather than 1500, you would get 750.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
|
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KayDidYue wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM been in discussion about enabling a subscription program and what sort of offerings could be made in it, however it shouldn't be 'an exclusive' club to the point subscribers get things the light and freemium buyers cannot obtain.
Either way talks are ongoing. This wouldn't either, as of right now people do get "free" officers weapons. This was a suggestion to include an incentive for possibly a premium subscription. hell no, free officer weapons is like furthest thing from most of the cpm's minds, we know how much officer gear sells for in new eden we wouldn't want these things dropping that much more often. The CPM should keep pushing the possibilities of vanity/visual benefits as a path of monetisation. With heavy emphasis on corps and corporate identity (to the point of entire corps posting and acting almost exclusively in-character (grr goons!)) in New Eden i see a potent market for several offerings, such as: Personal and Corpwide custom suit/vehicle paint schemes. Can be made available in tiers e.g.: I) Generic colors from limited pallette II) Above with extended pallete and simple patterns (classic camos, fractals etc.) III) All of the above, alternate material shaders (flat/worn, rusted, carbon, gold ) and the ability to paint parts individually for "one of a kind" designs (client performance concerns?). Alliance ads: I)Alliance Banners in PC/FW war barges during selected timezones (open corp info when interacted with) II) Corp/Alliance description on Merc quarter TV Making all of those tradeable items (like PLEX) would allow corp leaders to pay for them through taxes and hopefully alleviate the "who's paying for it?" issue. It keeps those features from being locked behind a solid paywall aswell. To get to the topic CCP could also bundle these with subs: "Mercenary" sub nets one 30day booster and tier I personal colors, Some AUR. "Veteran" sub includes one 30day booster+ tier II personal and tier I corp colors, Some AUR "Elite" sub includes tier III customization and banners (+benefits for corpmates? 1day boosters, even?!).
This might be a good idea, for one type of subscription, but not everyone would want this option as a subscription. This might be good as a "In Game" subscription for corporations.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
|
Preacher Death 2
Stoned Avengers
61
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
Last I checked both the 30 day boosters costs about $20. Which is 5 more than a monthly Eve subscription. They really don't need to be wasting any more time on frivolous aurum items. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10684
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
How would you address the red roping? One of my larger issues
A quick example would be world of warcraft red rope, new zone opens up, but only if you pay now (and wow has been slowly merging its oldest expansions into basic wow so it fits the condition of red roping.)
I think a discount is safe to offer on monthly things.
I am not familiar with "red roping" and this being my first fps type of game, I am also not familiar with warcraft, or "wow" other than hearing the name warcraft. So I cannot comment (address) this "issue."
Okay essentially this.
New game feature comes out, but its only available if you pay for it.
I guess an example would be in Dust if oh say marketing patch hit, BUT it was only available to subscribers. You are a freenium or low premium player how would you feel about that.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:
This might be a good idea, for one type of subscription, but not everyone would want this option as a subscription. This might be good as a "In Game" subscription for corporations.
True, some of these might or might not be attractive to some players/corps/alliances. A balance has to be found between customizability of these packs and the need to keep clutter at a minimum.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
|
Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
142
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
This game is a AA Rifle nade fest.To think of putting any type of subscriptions now is just a insult. If ccp got off its rifle whoring and balance the weapons with suits then maybe maybe. |
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 00:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Okay essentially this.
New game feature comes out, but its only available if you pay for it.
I guess an example would be in Dust if oh say marketing patch hit, BUT it was only available to subscribers. You are a freenium or low premium player how would you feel about that.
That's an example of Red roping and I do not want to see the subscription program lead to that entirely.
How would you guys feel that subscribers get a bit more of a bonus for the regular events they participate in?
I don't think that would be any different than any other subscription service that is available. It does not bother me that PNS Plus allows someone to play for free, yet I have to pay; so itg would be the same for me in dust. If someone is paying a subscription, and I don't want to pay for the subscription, then it would not b other me if they was able to get something that I can't get.
As of now, I don't want to pay the price for passive boosters for extra characters, while someone that does buy them and so they get something that I don't want. To me why complain that someone is getting something that I am not getting if they are willing to pay for that item and I am not willing to pay for that item - be it an extra feature, or something else.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
|
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 02:03:00 -
[49] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
...
How would you guys feel that subscribers get a bit more of a bonus for the regular events they participate in?
As far as "events" and extra bonuses, I had participated in events at one time, but the time, effort and offerings do not carry any weight for me anymore. I do not actively participate in dust events. So if "extra bonuses" were added, it would still not intice me to pay a subscription. They would have to have a lot (and I stress "A LOT") better events and offerings for being a participant than they have done in past events.
Even now, with me discussing monthly subscriptions, things would have to either greatly improve, or be very significant for people to be interested in paying for a subscription.
Just like for me right now, a subscription that would include what I have purchased (meaning the current boosters available) would not convince me to become a subscriber unless it was what I would call a significant savings over the price that they currently sell for - and even the 15% off the 30 day sale right now is not enough to get me to buy any right now, as I currently have 2 months worth yet, and with my interest in the game waning I wouldn't buy them; I'll wait and pay the regular price if I decide to continue keeping boosters going.
I will admit that I have enjoyed the game, but with not being able to count on anything, and the game being increasingly difficult to play with the constant changes and "nerfing" of things that I have purchased then lost (or had changed on me,) would have to change significantly.
I will admit that I still have high hopes, but...I don't want to "cry" or call what has been going as "foul." I have been taking this in as much stride as I can, as it is their game, and it is "free" to play.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
|
David Spd
Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 02:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
Events need to be the same for everybody. If paying members get "more" from them then free players will feel gimped, and be less inclined to take part.
I honestly do not see any good options for subscription options.
The best thing CCP can do (right now) is create a robust system to support cosmetics. People buy cosmetics like mad in every single free to play game I've ever touched. It's like clothing: a different outfit for every day.
With this being a FPS there is very little a subscription option would be able to touch without somehow lessening the experience for free players.
If CCP added cosmetics, then subscription option could touch that. Unique skins, extra cosmetic slots, discounts on cosmetics. What is a subscription model supposed to do for Dust right now? Boost something or other, since the game is bare bones. Boosting stats makes people perceive it as "pay to win" which makes them bitter. Boosting gains makes the "end-game" approach faster (think of having a subscription AND boosters active, the rates would be insane) and increases the intensity of "proto stomping" while not really offering anything more enjoyable to the game as a whole.
Exclusive consumables? What's the point? They'll be gone in the first couple days of your subscription. BPOs were removed because CCP doesn't like to give out free ISK, having free anything in terms of items would just throw that problem back into the game.
Until cosmetics are supported in a big way I don't see anything for subscription options to touch that wouldn't anger the playerbase as a whole or contradict choices CCP have made for the "health of the game".
Please, don't press subscription options. Instead press cosmetic options. Cosmetics for your armor, your weapons, your merc's voice, your merc profile. Give players a Dust version of the EVE character creator. Let players wear casual clothing in the merc quarters. Monetize off of these things that are optional and are far away from game balance and gameplay impacting items.
Then once players have some freedom on what they want to look like, add special exclusives to a monthly subscription, or convenience tied to them. Hell, they could implement a system where mercs earn "points" per match to buy cosmetic attachments for their armor or civilian clothes. Make subs increase the gains on THAT.
Cosmetics are the way to go. Free items, boosts or exclusive gameplay features are bad and do nothing good for the game. The "I don't care; they paid for it so they should get it" attitude is a VERY small minority when it comes to free to play games and you shouldn't assume "people will understand" or "it will make them want to buy it" because believe me; it won't. People will just get pissed off and fight about it. And I'll reiterate that this playerbase is all ready quite aggressive and fights all the time, giving them more reasons to fight isn't wise.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 03:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cosmetic? Are you kidding me? Cosmetic options are already causing problems! They have boosted cosmetics to try to make the graphics better, yet these have cause "bugs" as it is right now.
As far as subscription, do you have cable tv? or a cell phone? how about a bank?
All these have subscriptions and options for those subscriptions. The only way I see for this game to survive and improve is by giving the programmers (and management) a way to earn their "bonuses" and the best way for them to depend on a regular stipend is through subscriptions.
Right now, they through out "weekly" deals and hope that enough interest come about to interest people to buy them.
I do not "buy" much and most of the time, their offerings are not worth my "real" money. I am retired and on a limited budget. I do not purchase something unless it is something that passives me. The right type of subscription could do that.
You want improvements to the game? You want changes? Do you get these from a cable company, or any other company without it costing you?
This is a way to help get things done. We need to have this as an "added" option for people, but they have to be willing to give us something worthwhile in return for a commitment from us o give them financial support.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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David Spd
Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 03:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
You must be an EVE player. And you obviously have limited insight (and experience) on free to play games if you're lecturing me like that. Happy players bring more money. EVE is an anomaly in the gaming business, and nobody outside seems to understand how it has managed like it has. CCP seems just as surprised it survived so long and sustains itself.
You can't treat Dust like EVE. You can't appeal to a bunch of middle-aged people (or older) with a disposable income and not a lot of time and expect to get the same results on a console in the first person shooter genre.
And the only reason the game is so buggy is because CCP chose to build a revolutionary game on a ten year old machine that is no longer growing or improving, unlike PC which is constantly getting better. That's the only reason. Throwing more money at them isn't going to make the PS3 better. Nor is making players feel obligated to pay for a free game going to make Dust more enjoyable.
Get over yourself. While you're at it, go watch your cable tv, call someone on your cell phone and then make a withdrawl from your bank.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
5294
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 03:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
I remember posting a similar idea last year while we were still in closed beta. However, my proposal didn't involve much in the way of accelerated advancements but rather certain perks that Eve Online players have the luxury of utilizing. The proposal I put forth involved PLEX however. But I completely lost the link to the thread so I can't remember exactly what I said.
CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
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Justice Prevails
112
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 03:46:00 -
[54] - Quote
xLuca Brasi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:Nothing good can come from a subscription option. Basically you'll have all the EVE players paying for two monthly subs and think they're entitled to something similar to what EVE is offering.
And IWS you can't honestly believe CCP will be able to "properly" implement such a thing, do you? Their track record on "premium" content for Dust is atrocious.
Not to mention seemingly all decisions in the marketing area are just pants backwards batshit crazy. I've said it before & I'll say it again: the last thing we need is two EVE Online MMOs. Maybe a subscription option would be feasible much MUCH later down the line (as in, years from now) when CCP finally has content to justify paying monthly, and has finally decided what balance should be like...
But talking about and even considering such a thing now is just ludicrous. You have to consider that the CPM just recently managed to secure marketing's ear, turnaround will take some time. I can't change the past but influencing the future is something the CPM is doing. We're just slightly upset there is no racial parity yet or full lineup of roles for most of the races. maybe they are waiting to add this until they can tie it in to a good excuse to remove all our bpo's.
That just might be the way they do it. If you bought an elite and veteran pack, they'll refund you with a 10 months free subscription instead of the $150. Dont know how I would feel about that atm. I think the game has too many problems at this time to worry about subscriptions. Can't justify putting anymore money towards dust. Only reason I'm playing now is because I bought the vet and elite packs and feel I have to get my money's worth. Or I'll never hear the end of it from the wife.
Great job, team. Head back to the MCC for debriefing and cocktails.
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 03:52:00 -
[55] - Quote
David Spd wrote:You must be an EVE player. And you obviously have limited insight (and experience) on free to play games if you're lecturing me like that. Happy players bring more money. EVE is an anomaly in the gaming business, and nobody outside seems to understand how it has managed like it has. CCP seems just as surprised it survived so long and sustains itself.
You can't treat Dust like EVE. You can't appeal to a bunch of middle-aged people (or older) with a disposable income and not a lot of time and expect to get the same results on a console in the first person shooter genre.
And the only reason the game is so buggy is because CCP chose to build a revolutionary game on a ten year old machine that is no longer growing or improving, unlike PC which is constantly getting better. That's the only reason. Throwing more money at them isn't going to make the PS3 better. Nor is making players feel obligated to pay monthly for a free game going to make Dust more enjoyable.
Get over yourself. While you're at it, go watch your cable tv, call someone on your cell phone and then make a withdrawl from your bank.
On all these points (about me) you are dead wrong.
1st, I am not an EVE player, and this is the first FPS type game I have played.
As far as "free to play games," no I am a programmer, and do know about these type of games. Now if there are other free to play "online" games, then I am not familiar with them. What you may not realize is that it costs to improve things, and it also costs to have something connected to the Internet. How about you pay for the Internet connection and not have some type of compensation for it, other than people possibly paying for certain things that you can offer that is connected to the game.
Maybe "throwing" money at them through a subscription, can make improvements by providing them the means that they can depend on to make said improvements.
And no, I do not have cable tv, just an internet connection, and my cell phone, is just a basic one that costs me for each individual call as I do not have one of there "expensive" plans that I have no interest in paying for but not using.
Of course if you had read the entire posting on this subject you would have known this.
Lastly, I do not have a disposable income. Again, if you had read the previous posts, I am on a limited fixed income so I do have to be careful on what I do purchase.
So your statement "Get over yourself" is thrown right back to you, as it seems that you are the one with an attitude of being full of himself and want things for free and do not want others to have it either!
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 03:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:You must be an EVE player. And you obviously have limited insight (and experience) on free to play games if you're lecturing me like that. Happy players bring more money. EVE is an anomaly in the gaming business, and nobody outside seems to understand how it has managed like it has. CCP seems just as surprised it survived so long and sustains itself.
You can't treat Dust like EVE. You can't appeal to a bunch of middle-aged people (or older) with a disposable income and not a lot of time and expect to get the same results on a console in the first person shooter genre.
And the only reason the game is so buggy is because CCP chose to build a revolutionary game on a ten year old machine that is no longer growing or improving, unlike PC which is constantly getting better. That's the only reason. Throwing more money at them isn't going to make the PS3 better. Nor is making players feel obligated to pay monthly for a free game going to make Dust more enjoyable.
Get over yourself. While you're at it, go watch your cable tv, call someone on your cell phone and then make a withdrawl from your bank. On all these points (about me) you are dead wrong. 1st, I am not an EVE player, and this is the first FPS type game I have played. As far as "free to play games," no I am a programmer, and do know about these type of games. Now if there are other free to play "online fps" games, then I am not familiar with them. What you may not realize is that it costs to improve things, and it also costs to have something connected to the Internet. How about you pay for the Internet connection and not have some type of compensation for it, other than people possibly paying for certain things that you can offer that is connected to the game. Maybe "throwing" money at them through a subscription, can make improvements by providing them the means that they can depend on to make said improvements. And no, I do not have cable tv, just an internet connection, and my cell phone, is just a basic one that costs me for each individual call as I do not have one of there "expensive" plans that I have no interest in paying for but not using. Of course if you had read the entire posting on this subject you would have known this. Lastly, I do not have a disposable income. Again, if you had read the previous posts, I am on a limited fixed income so I do have to be careful on what I do purchase. So your statement "Get over yourself" is thrown right back to you, as it seems that you are the one with an attitude of being full of himself and want things for free and do not want others to have the ability to have a better playing experience via a subscription either!
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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Vesago Ghostcore
Rejected Clones
89
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 03:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
The game is free to play. This is one of the issues that Eve players have a problem with. They pay a monthly premium to play Eve and support CCP's bottom line, while dust players pay nothing. That said, a lot of Eve players would probably love to see a subscription fee, but that's just not possible for Dust. We already don't have a large enough player base.
I think that a possible solution to both issues would be to attach a premium subscription type benefit to dust players that pay for Eve subscriptions. This way, dust is still free, and it could potentially grow both games at the same time. Eve players would have a valid reason for trying, and possibly staying in Dust, and Dust players would have a valid reason for giving Eve a try.
It seems like a win win to me, but i'm sure someone will find a flaw in my idea.
Have at.
V. |
Zekain K
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
573
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 04:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:We're just slightly upset there is no racial parity yet or full lineup of roles for most of the races. I've looked at the credits and the DUST team doesn't seem that small. Why is it taking so long to deliver these assets? I'm not a game dev but I'd think they could ship a whole class of weapons across racial lines every two to three months. 1 word
Funding.
CALDARI MASTER RACE
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
220
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
Why do you guys want BPOs back so badly? |
KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 04:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Vesago Ghostcore wrote:The game is free to play. This is one of the issues that Eve players have a problem with. They pay a monthly premium to play Eve and support CCP's bottom line, while dust players pay nothing. That said, a lot of Eve players would probably love to see a subscription fee, but that's just not possible for Dust. We already don't have a large enough player base.
I think that a possible solution to both issues would be to attach a premium subscription type benefit to dust players that pay for Eve subscriptions. This way, dust is still free, and it could potentially grow both games at the same time. Eve players would have a valid reason for trying, and possibly staying in Dust, and Dust players would have a valid reason for giving Eve a try.
It seems like a win win to me, but i'm sure someone will find a flaw in my idea.
Have at.
V.
I somewhat agree with you, but I would not pay unless the subscription gave me something worth while. As of what we have right now, the answer would be "no" to paying for a subscription. But if they gave me something worth paying for, I would.
I do like the concept that they have told us they had for this game. I would like to see it continue and to grow, but how can anyone think that (growth and improvement) can happen for free?
My suggestion would still keep it free for people, but add extra's for those willing to pay a subscription.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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David Spd
Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:You must be an EVE player. And you obviously have limited insight (and experience) on free to play games if you're lecturing me like that. Happy players bring more money. EVE is an anomaly in the gaming business, and nobody outside seems to understand how it has managed like it has. CCP seems just as surprised it survived so long and sustains itself.
You can't treat Dust like EVE. You can't appeal to a bunch of middle-aged people (or older) with a disposable income and not a lot of time and expect to get the same results on a console in the first person shooter genre.
And the only reason the game is so buggy is because CCP chose to build a revolutionary game on a ten year old machine that is no longer growing or improving, unlike PC which is constantly getting better. That's the only reason. Throwing more money at them isn't going to make the PS3 better. Nor is making players feel obligated to pay monthly for a free game going to make Dust more enjoyable.
Get over yourself. While you're at it, go watch your cable tv, call someone on your cell phone and then make a withdrawl from your bank. On all these points (about me) you are dead wrong. 1st, I am not an EVE player, and this is the first FPS type game I have played. As far as "free to play games," no I am a programmer, and do know about these type of games. Now if there are other free to play "online" games, then I am not familiar with them. What you may not realize is that it costs to improve things, and it also costs to have something connected to the Internet. How about you pay for the Internet connection and not have some type of compensation for it, other than people possibly paying for certain things that you can offer that is connected to the game. Maybe "throwing" money at them through a subscription, can make improvements by providing them the means that they can depend on to make said improvements. And no, I do not have cable tv, just an internet connection, and my cell phone, is just a basic one that costs me for each individual call as I do not have one of there "expensive" plans that I have no interest in paying for but not using. Of course if you had read the entire posting on this subject you would have known this. Lastly, I do not have a disposable income. Again, if you had read the previous posts, I am on a limited fixed income so I do have to be careful on what I do purchase. So your statement "Get over yourself" is thrown right back to you, as it seems that you are the one with an attitude of being full of himself and want things for free and do not want others to have it either!
Touche. I bolded your issues for you.
Firstly, this is your first first person shooter. Skill is the primary thing that drives FPS games. You give someone something that makes them perform better without being more skilled and you've fundamentally damaged your game (one of the main reasons why Dust is doing poorly).
Secondly, "Maybe" is the keyword. You can't guarantee that them having more money will make the game better in any capacity. We don't even know if money is an issue. We probably never will.
Thirdly, I read your entire post. You said you had limited budget, which doesn't necessarily mean it's not disposable, it just means that there is only so much available (could be extra earnings from a paycheck at the end of the month). I went with what you gave me, and I was wrong. My bad.
I have eleven years of experience playing all different types of free to play games as my primary source of games. I have taken part in countless alpha, closed and open beta for free to play, pay to own, and pay to play games. I have literally spent thousands of dollars in them (social security from my father's death went into building a computer and investing heavily in video games to cope) The business models are drastically different and every game that I have seen that transitions into a different business model has suffered because of that change or implementation.
I am full of myself, and I try to be confident on these forums because I seem to be the only one with experience in this genre and business model around these forums. I have to voice my opinion as openly and blatantly as possible because if I "half-ass" it then I won't be heard.
So in the end, yeah, I'm just some random person on the internet with a stick up his ass but I'm also someone that has seen games come and go through many different business models. I may not be experienced in life, nor paying bills or earning for them, but I know how I feel when I sit down and play a game, and I know how others react to being treated a certain way in their games, or dealing with changes to their game that they have no control over.
If there's one thing in life I know about, it's video games. And if people choose to ignore me; that's fine. I don't expect people to take some guy's word on the internet every time he posts a wall of text, but at least believe me when I say that video games should be fun first and foremost, and free to play games need to focus on that, and ways of delivering that. Pointing at people's wallet every time is not a good way to earn people's loyalty or make them WANT to spend money.
If CCP wanted money for every single thing they did then they chose the wrong business model for Dust. They need to make SOME sacrifices because this is the business model they've chosen. If they go back on it now then they are giving up their current demographic for a new one, and that transition hits the game hard. You might not think subscription model is a big deal and maybe in the end it won't be, but I simply cannot in good conscience say it is a good move based on what I've seen in my experience with this business model and genre.
Sorry if I offended you.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:10:00 -
[62] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:Why do you guys want BPOs back so badly?
I don't want "BPO's" as they have been so badly.
They didn't provide CCP or DUST anything to help them advance anything. My suggestion was a type of BPO that would help them, and at the same time, give people the "BPO" (or at least a type of BPO that they seem to be crying out for.
If you want a BPO, then why not give them one, at least for a monthly fee and not for free. Free helps no one but the people that want something (and almost always, more) for nothing.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:21:00 -
[63] - Quote
To David Spd:
I can understand, and your point is taken, and no you did not offend me so no apology is needed.
As for me, I started playing this game, and was enjoying it, but it has been going downhill. I was hoping to bring about a way to possibly get it back to being a fun game.
Truthfully, with the time I have put into the game to build up my experience I really don't want to give up on it, but I may have to do this.
I do think that this might be a viable option where things could improve the game. That is if finances are the issue. This would also give a more powerful voice to the subscribers on how to improve the game. If they need funds, and get them through subscribers, they need to keep them happy - as it is, they don't have to listen to the players because the players aren't paying for the game. At least not on a regular basis.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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David Spd
Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:To David Spd:
I can understand, and your point is taken, and no you did not offend me so no apology is needed.
As for me, I started playing this game, and was enjoying it, but it has been going downhill. I was hoping to bring about a way to possibly get it back to being a fun game.
Truthfully, with the time I have put into the game to build up my experience I really don't want to give up on it, but I may have to do this.
I do think that this might be a viable option where things could improve the game. That is if finances are the issue. This would also give a more powerful voice to the subscribers on how to improve the game. If they need funds, and get them through subscribers, they need to keep them happy - as it is, they don't have to listen to the players because the players aren't paying for the game. At least not on a regular basis.
Well listening to the players (at least partially) is usually a good idea because there are more of us than there are of them (at least... I would hope).
Overall I'm not against the idea of a subscription.... it's just, like I said before, it's really hard for me to think of ways to do it without heavy handing it. And I was really surprised at the amount of people that were paying $100 for those packs, so I know I'm not always right and certainly don't think I always am.
That sort of stuff usually goes over really badly in my experience. I guess people realized the value of permanent dropsuits and vehicles and went for it.
Also thanks for keeping your cool when I got a bit carried away. I tend to do that sometimes. Personality flaw of mine. It's also kind of nice to know our discussion was never really an argument. You're an okay guy KayDidYue. Hope you can find a way to enjoy Dust again eventually.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
675
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:40:00 -
[65] - Quote
That's what I've been saying since closed beta. Ppl used to tell me that subscriptions are so 80's and that now it's all about F2P model with microtransactions. 1.5 year down the line we are back to the same argument. Ppl want some sort of subscription. What do you know...
Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
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Suanar Daranaus
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:
Even more reason for CCP to tread VERY lightly then.
Oh I do agree with this, as it should be well discussed; which IMHO the discussion should be include the entire community as I believe that if left to them alone, it could be the straw that breaks... Well if you want to talk about what you think a subscription program would look like I am all ears.
There shouldn't be one Mr. CPM
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Onesimus Tarsus
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
693
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:20:00 -
[67] - Quote
How about a dialog box that pops up when you're shotted that says, "Do you want your clone to die or not? 1 AUR to act like this never happened." |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1220
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 22:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
Many play dust cause it's free. and those still paying to "support" ccp after 12mil Sp is just sad. Eve covers the cost for dust. so your just lemming it up.
Having a subscription may actually do what everything else couldn't do with the ccp groupies in dust. TURN THEM OFF FROM PLAYING. |
Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
160
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 22:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
zibathy numbertwo wrote:Sorry, but this is a bad idea. BPOs are bad for the economy. Period. CCP will not do this.
What is this magical 'economy' you speak of, because as of yet, I have not seen nor heard from CCP that this 'economy' is a pre-existing feature of the game, or that CCP have even started planning and developing an 'economy' model to be implemented into the game in a later update.
STOP SAYING BPOS ARE BAD FOR SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST!
I can has ISK
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
160
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:Komodo Jones wrote:Why do you guys want BPOs back so badly? I don't want "BPO's" as they have been so badly. They didn't provide CCP or DUST anything to help them advance anything. My suggestion was a type of BPO that would help them, and at the same time, give people the "BPO" (or at least a type of BPO that they seem to be crying out for. If you want a BPO, then why not give them one, at least for a monthly fee and not for free. Free helps no one but the people that want something (and almost always, more) for nothing.
I already have 62 BPOs, so I think I'm good if getting any more will cost me a subscription. Haha
I can has ISK
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
69
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:CCP, you seem to want to be able to bring in funds to help support your existence. You have been doing this by trying to sell items through AUR sales; and while sometimes it seems you have things too expensive, people have been doing this already.
Well here is an idea, that I think many would be inclined to except. of course there will be many that will oppose this too, but by allowing someone to have a weapon subscription BPO (sBPO) and a dropsuit of choice (sBPO) while they are paying a monthly subscription, you would be able to pretty much depend on a monthly stipend.
While I know that there would be many that would call this a "Pay to Win" as they already do, I have not thought of what you have been doing as such, but rather a "Pay to Advance" system that helps people advance faster.
Of course having a monthly subscription system you would have to make it affordable, and you can get an idea of a price by observing what you get with the Plus system that PSN has in operation. So for instance a subscription for 30,000 AUR you get a 30 day active booster and a type of sBPO for a dropsuit of choice and an weapon of choice (including an officer weapon.) If you drop your subscription, you loose these items.
If someone still wanted a passive booster, then they would still need to purchase them the same way that is currently in operation.
Of course, for those that do not want to pay a monthly subscription, you would still have all the items for sale as is currently in operation, and for those that do not want to pay anything, they still get to play the way they have been playing - by not having to make any purchases.
I think that this might be a good option to try to make some (and I think many) people happy, and at the same time, give your project a regular stipend that you could depend on to help you continue your operations.
Unfortunately the "monthly subscription" model has been proven to be less profitable than the "free to play" model. I go over it in some detail in these two posts:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1489974#post1489974
But short story is monthly is approx $15 per month when "free to play" can be around $70 per month (or more if situations are right). Which in all honesty is what the market is willing to pay to begin with since many gamers go to the store to buy a newly released game every month that retails around $60 to $80.
So the OP's idea is not gonna work, as much as I like it personally as a consumer. ;)
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1162
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
Add a subscription fee? Fine.
Add all the BPO wackiness? I'll pass on that.
Just seed BPOs on the market the way they are in Eve and allow us to manufacture and sell items on the player market. This is how it is done in Eve and I personally see absolutely no reason to change the method just for the sake of being different.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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