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David Spd
Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:You must be an EVE player. And you obviously have limited insight (and experience) on free to play games if you're lecturing me like that. Happy players bring more money. EVE is an anomaly in the gaming business, and nobody outside seems to understand how it has managed like it has. CCP seems just as surprised it survived so long and sustains itself.
You can't treat Dust like EVE. You can't appeal to a bunch of middle-aged people (or older) with a disposable income and not a lot of time and expect to get the same results on a console in the first person shooter genre.
And the only reason the game is so buggy is because CCP chose to build a revolutionary game on a ten year old machine that is no longer growing or improving, unlike PC which is constantly getting better. That's the only reason. Throwing more money at them isn't going to make the PS3 better. Nor is making players feel obligated to pay monthly for a free game going to make Dust more enjoyable.
Get over yourself. While you're at it, go watch your cable tv, call someone on your cell phone and then make a withdrawl from your bank. On all these points (about me) you are dead wrong. 1st, I am not an EVE player, and this is the first FPS type game I have played. As far as "free to play games," no I am a programmer, and do know about these type of games. Now if there are other free to play "online" games, then I am not familiar with them. What you may not realize is that it costs to improve things, and it also costs to have something connected to the Internet. How about you pay for the Internet connection and not have some type of compensation for it, other than people possibly paying for certain things that you can offer that is connected to the game. Maybe "throwing" money at them through a subscription, can make improvements by providing them the means that they can depend on to make said improvements. And no, I do not have cable tv, just an internet connection, and my cell phone, is just a basic one that costs me for each individual call as I do not have one of there "expensive" plans that I have no interest in paying for but not using. Of course if you had read the entire posting on this subject you would have known this. Lastly, I do not have a disposable income. Again, if you had read the previous posts, I am on a limited fixed income so I do have to be careful on what I do purchase. So your statement "Get over yourself" is thrown right back to you, as it seems that you are the one with an attitude of being full of himself and want things for free and do not want others to have it either!
Touche. I bolded your issues for you.
Firstly, this is your first first person shooter. Skill is the primary thing that drives FPS games. You give someone something that makes them perform better without being more skilled and you've fundamentally damaged your game (one of the main reasons why Dust is doing poorly).
Secondly, "Maybe" is the keyword. You can't guarantee that them having more money will make the game better in any capacity. We don't even know if money is an issue. We probably never will.
Thirdly, I read your entire post. You said you had limited budget, which doesn't necessarily mean it's not disposable, it just means that there is only so much available (could be extra earnings from a paycheck at the end of the month). I went with what you gave me, and I was wrong. My bad.
I have eleven years of experience playing all different types of free to play games as my primary source of games. I have taken part in countless alpha, closed and open beta for free to play, pay to own, and pay to play games. I have literally spent thousands of dollars in them (social security from my father's death went into building a computer and investing heavily in video games to cope) The business models are drastically different and every game that I have seen that transitions into a different business model has suffered because of that change or implementation.
I am full of myself, and I try to be confident on these forums because I seem to be the only one with experience in this genre and business model around these forums. I have to voice my opinion as openly and blatantly as possible because if I "half-ass" it then I won't be heard.
So in the end, yeah, I'm just some random person on the internet with a stick up his ass but I'm also someone that has seen games come and go through many different business models. I may not be experienced in life, nor paying bills or earning for them, but I know how I feel when I sit down and play a game, and I know how others react to being treated a certain way in their games, or dealing with changes to their game that they have no control over.
If there's one thing in life I know about, it's video games. And if people choose to ignore me; that's fine. I don't expect people to take some guy's word on the internet every time he posts a wall of text, but at least believe me when I say that video games should be fun first and foremost, and free to play games need to focus on that, and ways of delivering that. Pointing at people's wallet every time is not a good way to earn people's loyalty or make them WANT to spend money.
If CCP wanted money for every single thing they did then they chose the wrong business model for Dust. They need to make SOME sacrifices because this is the business model they've chosen. If they go back on it now then they are giving up their current demographic for a new one, and that transition hits the game hard. You might not think subscription model is a big deal and maybe in the end it won't be, but I simply cannot in good conscience say it is a good move based on what I've seen in my experience with this business model and genre.
Sorry if I offended you.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:10:00 -
[62] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:Why do you guys want BPOs back so badly?
I don't want "BPO's" as they have been so badly.
They didn't provide CCP or DUST anything to help them advance anything. My suggestion was a type of BPO that would help them, and at the same time, give people the "BPO" (or at least a type of BPO that they seem to be crying out for.
If you want a BPO, then why not give them one, at least for a monthly fee and not for free. Free helps no one but the people that want something (and almost always, more) for nothing.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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KayDidYue
Mercenaries On Duty
10
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:21:00 -
[63] - Quote
To David Spd:
I can understand, and your point is taken, and no you did not offend me so no apology is needed.
As for me, I started playing this game, and was enjoying it, but it has been going downhill. I was hoping to bring about a way to possibly get it back to being a fun game.
Truthfully, with the time I have put into the game to build up my experience I really don't want to give up on it, but I may have to do this.
I do think that this might be a viable option where things could improve the game. That is if finances are the issue. This would also give a more powerful voice to the subscribers on how to improve the game. If they need funds, and get them through subscribers, they need to keep them happy - as it is, they don't have to listen to the players because the players aren't paying for the game. At least not on a regular basis.
Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready.
Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
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David Spd
Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:To David Spd:
I can understand, and your point is taken, and no you did not offend me so no apology is needed.
As for me, I started playing this game, and was enjoying it, but it has been going downhill. I was hoping to bring about a way to possibly get it back to being a fun game.
Truthfully, with the time I have put into the game to build up my experience I really don't want to give up on it, but I may have to do this.
I do think that this might be a viable option where things could improve the game. That is if finances are the issue. This would also give a more powerful voice to the subscribers on how to improve the game. If they need funds, and get them through subscribers, they need to keep them happy - as it is, they don't have to listen to the players because the players aren't paying for the game. At least not on a regular basis.
Well listening to the players (at least partially) is usually a good idea because there are more of us than there are of them (at least... I would hope).
Overall I'm not against the idea of a subscription.... it's just, like I said before, it's really hard for me to think of ways to do it without heavy handing it. And I was really surprised at the amount of people that were paying $100 for those packs, so I know I'm not always right and certainly don't think I always am.
That sort of stuff usually goes over really badly in my experience. I guess people realized the value of permanent dropsuits and vehicles and went for it.
Also thanks for keeping your cool when I got a bit carried away. I tend to do that sometimes. Personality flaw of mine. It's also kind of nice to know our discussion was never really an argument. You're an okay guy KayDidYue. Hope you can find a way to enjoy Dust again eventually.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
675
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:40:00 -
[65] - Quote
That's what I've been saying since closed beta. Ppl used to tell me that subscriptions are so 80's and that now it's all about F2P model with microtransactions. 1.5 year down the line we are back to the same argument. Ppl want some sort of subscription. What do you know...
Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
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Suanar Daranaus
Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KayDidYue wrote:David Spd wrote:
Even more reason for CCP to tread VERY lightly then.
Oh I do agree with this, as it should be well discussed; which IMHO the discussion should be include the entire community as I believe that if left to them alone, it could be the straw that breaks... Well if you want to talk about what you think a subscription program would look like I am all ears.
There shouldn't be one Mr. CPM
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Onesimus Tarsus
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
693
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:20:00 -
[67] - Quote
How about a dialog box that pops up when you're shotted that says, "Do you want your clone to die or not? 1 AUR to act like this never happened." |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1220
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
Many play dust cause it's free. and those still paying to "support" ccp after 12mil Sp is just sad. Eve covers the cost for dust. so your just lemming it up.
Having a subscription may actually do what everything else couldn't do with the ccp groupies in dust. TURN THEM OFF FROM PLAYING. |
Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
160
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
zibathy numbertwo wrote:Sorry, but this is a bad idea. BPOs are bad for the economy. Period. CCP will not do this.
What is this magical 'economy' you speak of, because as of yet, I have not seen nor heard from CCP that this 'economy' is a pre-existing feature of the game, or that CCP have even started planning and developing an 'economy' model to be implemented into the game in a later update. STOP SAYING BPOS ARE BAD FOR SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST!
I can has ISK
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
160
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:Komodo Jones wrote:Why do you guys want BPOs back so badly? I don't want "BPO's" as they have been so badly. They didn't provide CCP or DUST anything to help them advance anything. My suggestion was a type of BPO that would help them, and at the same time, give people the "BPO" (or at least a type of BPO that they seem to be crying out for. If you want a BPO, then why not give them one, at least for a monthly fee and not for free. Free helps no one but the people that want something (and almost always, more) for nothing.
I already have 62 BPOs, so I think I'm good if getting any more will cost me a subscription. Haha
I can has ISK
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
69
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:CCP, you seem to want to be able to bring in funds to help support your existence. You have been doing this by trying to sell items through AUR sales; and while sometimes it seems you have things too expensive, people have been doing this already.
Well here is an idea, that I think many would be inclined to except. of course there will be many that will oppose this too, but by allowing someone to have a weapon subscription BPO (sBPO) and a dropsuit of choice (sBPO) while they are paying a monthly subscription, you would be able to pretty much depend on a monthly stipend.
While I know that there would be many that would call this a "Pay to Win" as they already do, I have not thought of what you have been doing as such, but rather a "Pay to Advance" system that helps people advance faster.
Of course having a monthly subscription system you would have to make it affordable, and you can get an idea of a price by observing what you get with the Plus system that PSN has in operation. So for instance a subscription for 30,000 AUR you get a 30 day active booster and a type of sBPO for a dropsuit of choice and an weapon of choice (including an officer weapon.) If you drop your subscription, you loose these items.
If someone still wanted a passive booster, then they would still need to purchase them the same way that is currently in operation.
Of course, for those that do not want to pay a monthly subscription, you would still have all the items for sale as is currently in operation, and for those that do not want to pay anything, they still get to play the way they have been playing - by not having to make any purchases.
I think that this might be a good option to try to make some (and I think many) people happy, and at the same time, give your project a regular stipend that you could depend on to help you continue your operations.
Unfortunately the "monthly subscription" model has been proven to be less profitable than the "free to play" model. I go over it in some detail in these two posts:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1489974#post1489974
But short story is monthly is approx $15 per month when "free to play" can be around $70 per month (or more if situations are right). Which in all honesty is what the market is willing to pay to begin with since many gamers go to the store to buy a newly released game every month that retails around $60 to $80.
So the OP's idea is not gonna work, as much as I like it personally as a consumer. ;)
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
1162
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
Add a subscription fee? Fine.
Add all the BPO wackiness? I'll pass on that.
Just seed BPOs on the market the way they are in Eve and allow us to manufacture and sell items on the player market. This is how it is done in Eve and I personally see absolutely no reason to change the method just for the sake of being different.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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