DUST Search - Forge guns are bullshit

GeneralButtNaked wrote:

Borne Velvalor wrote:

The Laser Rifle has heat build up and must be fired for that long continously to ever kill anyone with substantial health, especially armor, which is does a terribly low amount of damage too. I'm talking 200 DPS against armor, here. Obviously, I can't move very quickly while shooting. Are you telling me that there was no possible way to kill him, from any position within my optimal range, including getting him from behind to the head, without getting OHKO'd and it's somehow my fault?

GG. Try harder. Also, I use the forge against Snipers and other Forge Gunners and it is hilarious. If you are "skilled" enough, you can completely negate everyone elses skill.

Using a shield biased weapon against a target with over 1000 armor HP is not exactly the smartest thing to do is it?

What most people don't realize, or seem to forget in the heat of combat is how to strafe when firing on a FG user. If your strafe patterns bring you back to the same point twice, enjoy death. Especially if you decide to do figure eights, as the crossover normally happens right around charge up with an IAFG.

If something takes you that long to kill, then you need backup. If you can't do it without sitting practically still enough for the FG to get a bead on you, then you shouldn't do anyhting other than strip his shields off and let someone else finish him off.

Laser is a fantastic support weapon, and used against a group with greens in place to finish them, you can help to devastate a squad with brutal efficiency.

Running the laser solo, against almost any suit is asking for problems. So maybe you should get some friends to play with you before you go complaining about how your poor tactics, poor gear selection allowed a heavy to kill you for being a dummy.

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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4545	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:12:00 - [61] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: @ OP Heavies get HP buff, Forge splash gets nerfed to 2.0m or so. You are within 5m, wearing cardboard and newspapers for armor and complain when a gun that hits at 400+ splash kills you? QQ. Get gud scrub. If you were 100m away, then you can QQ about splash damage. But inside 5m all he has to do is shoot the ground below you and you will be sent flying. It's as hard as hitting the side of a barn from 10 feet away. Lesson to be learned? Don't run at a guy pointing a gun at you. I was jumping around.... He hit me in the air. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 138	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:13:00 - [62] - Quote Working as intended. Stop trying to drop the nerf hammer on the FG - wasn't the blast radius reduction enough? Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 941	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:22:00 - [63] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: The Laser Rifle has heat build up and must be fired for that long continously to ever kill anyone with substantial health, especially armor, which is does a terribly low amount of damage too. I'm talking 200 DPS against armor, here. Obviously, I can't move very quickly while shooting. Are you telling me that there was no possible way to kill him, from any position within my optimal range, including getting him from behind to the head, without getting OHKO'd and it's somehow my fault? GG. Try harder. Also, I use the forge against Snipers and other Forge Gunners and it is hilarious. If you are "skilled" enough, you can completely negate everyone elses skill. Using a shield biased weapon against a target with over 1000 armor HP is not exactly the smartest thing to do is it? What most people don't realize, or seem to forget in the heat of combat is how to strafe when firing on a FG user. If your strafe patterns bring you back to the same point twice, enjoy death. Especially if you decide to do figure eights, as the crossover normally happens right around charge up with an IAFG. If something takes you that long to kill, then you need backup. If you can't do it without sitting practically still enough for the FG to get a bead on you, then you shouldn't do anyhting other than strip his shields off and let someone else finish him off. Laser is a fantastic support weapon, and used against a group with greens in place to finish them, you can help to devastate a squad with brutal efficiency. Running the laser solo, against almost any suit is asking for problems. So maybe you should get some friends to play with you before you go complaining about how your poor tactics, poor gear selection allowed a heavy to kill you for being a dummy. That was a while back. I no longer use the LR, even though I mained it for so long, because it's really not very good. The DPS is the lowest of all the rifles unless you have long sustained fire on target within a 15m span, during which anyone can run too close or too far, behind a rock, or kill you because you can't strafe fast enough. Mathematically, it sucks, and I have several posts on the matter somewhere on these boards. It wrecks with a good squad, but so does my Tactical Assault Rifle, without having a tiny span walled by cliff drop offs. 99% of the Lasers I see never kill me, because I know its flaws and exploit the crap out of them. Unless their team is completely suppressing me, it just doesn't work. In that case, I'd be dead anyway. Also, sorry, but no one on my crappy pub team could "finish off" a Heavy on the tower on the map I was on. It's walled in and the only gap is the one he was shooting out of. I stripped his shields at least 5 times and he retreated each time to restore them, because, you know, the Laser doesn't do **** to armor. In fact, the damage build up and efficacy end up nerfing each other out, since you deal the most damage to shields before you heat up and then get a sharp drop on the heightened DPS to armor. Maybe if I was on a competent squad and we had multiple Snipers babysitting him, they could've finished the job. God knows that a Dropship would never make it past his lolforgegun. I kill plenty of Forge Gun users. The smart ones in good locations, however, are essentially invincible in a pubs unless you also pull out a Forge Gun or Charge Sniper them to the head. I eventually did kill him with a Forge Gun. He respawned on an uplink. It didn't end until we dropped an Orbital on him, at which point we lost the match by a sliver anyway since he and a few others like him made it impossible to hack the terminal. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 126	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:24:00 - [64] - Quote I feast on your tears. Really though I was sitting in a doorway yesterday blapping a blaster turret at range, 2 shots, 1 to go, as a scout "sneakily" strafes in with the trusted shotty and the final shot meant for the turret blows him away. If the heavy is able to turn and catch you, you are doing it wrong, if you see forge rounds coming out of some area and move into line of fire, you are doing it wrong, if you still die after observing these lessons you were outplayed sorry bud. I think scouts are getting apathetic recently, I usually spot them 10 meters out and gun them down with a standard SMG. Lets face it, if you get hit squarely with a projectile that takes 2 seconds per shot and is meant for destroying tanks, you are going to die. It's not a shotgun, hit area is not large, it is very EASY to miss, and when a heavy misses CQC with a FG, they die. It's that simple.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 576	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:24:00 - [65] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I was jumping around.... He hit me in the air. So then it is just bad luck for you, and great luck for him. Why did we need to have this discussion, you already knew the answer. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 941	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:27:00 - [66] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I was jumping around.... He hit me in the air. So then it is just bad luck for you, and great luck for him. Why did we need to have this discussion, you already knew the answer. This is true enough. It's like when I pull out my Scrambler Pistol and hipfire to the head while jumping. If the RNG Gods smile upon me, the enemy pops due to the 450% damage and I see a +60/72 pop up on my screen. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1460	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:30:00 - [67] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: No I don't see a problem with the situation you've listed. You either screwed up or the Forge was a stellar shot. You had all the advantage in the world in this situation, he wasn't on a tower accessible only by Dropships, he wasn't being constantly supported by repping nanohives, and you got inside of your optimal range in order to kill him and proceeded to drop the soap on this one. **** happens. Yeah, no. That is why they are lowering the splash radius on FGs.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 831	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:33:00 - [68] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Yeah, no. That is why they are lowering the splash radius on FGs. You mean already did. "I am a mercenary, I do as I need. I'll shed Amarrian blood for the freedom of my Minmitar allies but only for a price."
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 577	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:35:00 - [69] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Also, sorry, but no one on my crappy pub team could "finish off" a Heavy on the tower on the map I was on. It's walled in and the only gap is the one he was shooting out of. So, playing on a rings socket, that heavy can cover one objective. Simple solution, let the enemy have it. You fight for the objective under cover, that it can't hit, and the forge is never a problem. Borne Velvalor wrote: I stripped his shields at least 5 times and he retreated each time to restore them, because, you know, the Laser doesn't do ** to armor. In fact, the damage build up and efficacy end up nerfing each other out, since you deal the most damage to shields before you heat up and then get a sharp drop on the heightened DPS to armor. Maybe if I was on a competent squad and we had multiple Snipers babysitting him, they could've finished the job. God knows that a Dropship would never make it past his lolforgegun. A single FG user up high on that map is not invulnerable. The roof he was on is not flat, and a heavy cannot cover all directions at once. If he was firing on the objective, then he could easily have been dropped in on by a DS. Once again however, there was zero tactical advantage in you attacking a target you could not kill. You should have rolled with your squad, and kept racking up WP while staying out of the objective he was camping. Then drop an orbital on the tower, and be done with it. If the only way for your team to win a game involves trying to cap a camped objective, you are doing it wrong. Borne Velvalor wrote:** I kill plenty of Forge Gun users. The smart ones in good locations, however, are essentially invincible in a pubs unless you also pull out a Forge Gun or Charge Sniper them to the head. I eventually did kill him with a Forge Gun. He respawned on an uplink. It didn't end until we dropped an Orbital on him, at which point we lost the match by a sliver anyway since he and a few others like him made it impossible to hack the terminal. So what was it, one FG up top or a squad? They are two very different things, and you should be clear on what you were facing unless you want to be called on your bias. Playing Domination without having a plan to control the heights is asking to get fisted, and you got exactly what you deserved. Look at it this way: If you and some friends can't figure out how to take a roof, you better just give up on ever being able to do anything in PC. If you don't know how to fight and win for the heights, enjoy losing badly. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1179	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:39:00 - [70] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I was jumping around.... He hit me in the air. Then that is either a skillshot worthy of a fist bump or complete stupid luck on his part. Sorry, Cat. Of all the reasonable arguments that could be made about the FG being too effective, this isn't one of 'em. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù

Dengru Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:54:00 - [71] - Quote Whats great is that if he switched to his toxin he would've done 400 dmg to kill you before you hit the ground! The odds are stacked against you in what should be your optimal situation
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7733	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:56:00 - [72] - Quote Just gonna chime in on the topic of tower forge gunners. Best counter is another forge gun. Words / Vids / OSG
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 943	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:57:00 - [73] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: So, playing on a rings socket, that heavy can cover one objective. Simple solution, let the enemy have it. You fight for the objective under cover, that it can't hit, and the forge is never a problem. It's Domination. GeneralButtNaked wrote: A single FG user up high on that map is not invulnerable. The roof he was on is not flat, and a heavy cannot cover all directions at once. If he was firing on the objective, then he could easily have been dropped in on by a DS. Once again however, there was zero tactical advantage in you attacking a target you could not kill. You should have rolled with your squad, and kept racking up WP while staying out of the objective he was camping. Then drop an orbital on the tower, and be done with it. If the only way for your team to win a game involves trying to cap a camped objective, you are doing it wrong. Dropships are far from discreet. I attacked him because there was no one left, except him and several others like him (some with snipers, some with drivers, which I did kill or suppress as they respawned) who were preventing the objective from being captured. Again, it's Domination. There is one objective and the enemy slipped in and hacked it with a Minmatar Logistics in, quite literally, 3.5 seconds. We didn't have an Orbital at that particular time. Unless I supply camp, no one is making any WP quickly. GeneralButtNaked wrote: So what was it, one FG up top or a squad? They are two very different things, and you should be clear on what you were facing unless you want to be called on your bias. Playing Domination without having a plan to control the heights is asking to get fisted, and you got exactly what you deserved. Look at it this way: If you and some friends can't figure out how to take a roof, you better just give up on ever being able to do anything in PC. If you don't know how to fight and win for the heights, enjoy losing badly. First, I'll be exact. It was multiple targets. They had uplinks on the roof. There was usually one Forge Gunner and one Mass Driver user, occasionally with Snipers. To the side is a bridge between buildings, for lack of a better term, with Scramblers and more Mass Drivers camping hives on it. The farmed WP generated Orbitals to make things even worse. What bias could I have? Oh, I got killed? What, 3% of my deaths are to Forge Guns at most? I'm not calling for a nerf. I'm not calling for anything. I'm just saying that Forge Guns can be very cheap and don't always take a godly amount of skill to use. People act as if the guy going 15/0 with a Forge Gun on a tower is some god of gaming. Please. My first match as a noob when I was posting 1/0s with a militia Forge Gun I went 17/3. It's hilarious. Second, it was a pubs match. I'm only one guy, he's only one guy. My squad is not corporation mates or strategic geniuses. He or someone else takes a ship up there with burners at the very start of the match and plants uplinks. 2-4 guys are always up there with AoE weapons and Snipers until you Orbital them. No one would call in a ship in fear of it getting blown, or they couldn't pilot one. Please explain to me how I was supposed to pilot a militia dropship through Forge Gunners and the inevitable Swarm launchers, land on the roof, wipe out the 2-3 guys that are there at any given time and blow the uplinks, with time to spare to capture the terminal and win the match. The loss was indeed a combination of poor team cohesion (in a random public match, who would have thought?) and good team cohesion on the other side. However, the fact that it takes several snipers or a dropship with multiple passengers to take out a lolheavyforge on a tower is hilarious. It's like an instant win in public Domination on some maps unless the enemy team is a full squad from one corporation or q-synchers. I did OK, but my team got wrecked. It happens. I don't even care enough to continue writing. You can chock it up to poor strategy in a pubs match Domination when a stubborn Forge Heavy denies Terminal hacks and no one wants to risk or can pilot a DS. My point was simply that I could use my weapon, in optimal range, for three times as long as, say, an AR would kill him, and he can turn towards me and OHKO me, even if it did take him a while to get his reticule on me. I've fought Assault Forge Gun users that just fire into the crowd from 150m away and pick up a dozen kills and a couple of deaths, at most. It just seems cheap, I don't know. I have no problem dieing. I do have a problem getting OHKO'd from sniper range, when not even a Thale can OHKO me to the head. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 943	Posted - 2013.11.18 17:01:00 - [74] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Just gonna chime in on the topic of tower forge gunners. Best counter is another forge gun. Which is what I usually do, now. It's not worth the time and risk to get up there when I can just OHKO with the same gun. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1179	Posted - 2013.11.18 17:41:00 - [75] - Quote No problem. If he was able to get a full-on bodyshot at that range, it's no-ones fault. Tip your hat and move on. Also, you should probably use a better shotgun on heavies. I want a Minmatar one already :c ECM Equipment
Eltra Ardell Goonfeet Top Men. 201	Posted - 2013.11.18 17:41:00 - [76] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: So I see a forge gunner. I close the distance since I have a shotgun... And he turns around. I think "Ok, I'm just 5 meters away, I'll start firing" 1 Shot, shields down. 2nd shot, 1/2 armor down 3rd shot... nope, forge gun charged and kills me. Am I the only one who sees a problem here? Edit: No jackasses, I wasn't running directly at him. I was jumping around in a scout suit. Edit 2: He was inside the redline, sniping my team mates. I decided to get out of my way to take care of him for my team. I had 10 seconds left when I got within range, this was a suicide mission. CCP fixed hit detection. Enjoy your new DUST.
SILVERBACK 02 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 296	Posted - 2013.11.18 18:04:00 - [77] - Quote 1. dont run scout its a redundant class. 2. his whole suit and weapon costs about 6 of you suits. 3. do you know how hard it is to hit a scout straffing and jumping everywhere like a ***-got?. 4. get good scrub. level 0 forum warrior self-proclaimed slayer weapon of choice: GEK-38 gallante assault rifle -STB infantry
m twiggz Eternal Beings 155	Posted - 2013.11.18 19:16:00 - [78] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: So I see a forge gunner. I close the distance since I have a shotgun... And he turns around. I think "Ok, I'm just 5 meters away, I'll start firing" 1 Shot, shields down. 2nd shot, 1/2 armor down 3rd shot... nope, forge gun charged and kills me. Am I the only one who sees a problem here? Edit: No jackasses, I wasn't running directly at him. I was jumping around in a scout suit. Edit 2: He was inside the redline, sniping my team mates. I decided to get out of my way to take care of him for my team. I had 10 seconds left when I got within range, this was a suicide mission. How is this a problem? I don't understand. He/she killed you with what seems to be a lucky shot. Respawn and try again, or QQ on the forums...
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 478	Posted - 2013.11.18 19:31:00 - [79] - Quote or.. that forge gunner was using kb/m... no need for lucky shots then.
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2324	Posted - 2013.11.18 19:33:00 - [80] - Quote I feel your pain Cat, I both use forges and get abused by them. So here is some actual advice from a forge gunner that isn't blatant justification. Do not strafe side to side when combating a forge gun. That is the primary reason you lost. You need to strafe in one direction the whole time. Most forges on a dual shock have a lower sensitivity because they are banking everything on one shot, usually in the far distance. It has to be precise. You can easily get under their gun up close if you keep moving in one direction. The only time you would switch it up is if he decided to spin 180 degrees in the opposite direction as you, and thats a very unrealistic high-level reflex that nobody really does. If he is a kb/m user he is at a slightly greater advantage as he can likely change his sensitivity on the fly, but it takes time to press the buttons required to do that and in that time you should be filling him full of shotgun. There isn't realistically enough time to change sensitivity, acquire target, and then kill you with any degree of accuracy if you were the one getting the drop on him. Of course do note, he needs only splash the ground to kill you unless you have brick tanked a little bit. Scout suits are almost always killed by splash when it comes to forge defense.

oso tiburon The Generals EoN. 199	Posted - 2013.11.18 19:37:00 - [81] - Quote props to that heavy
Virtual Riot The Vanguardians 68	Posted - 2013.11.18 20:29:00 - [82] - Quote "Adapted from Deep Core Mining Inc.GÇÖs proprietary technology, the DCMA S-1 subverts conventional expectations of what a man-portable anti-material weapons platform is capable of. Despite its excessive weight and extended recharge times, the GÇ£Forge GunGÇ¥ as it has become known, is regarded as the most devastating infantry weapon on the battlefield, and an invaluable tool for those capable of wielding it. " Just, read that. Stop complaining about forge guns, if he killed you at 5m he was a total badass. Its meant to be the "most devastating infantry weapon on the battlefield". So get over it, its always gonna be very powerful in the hands of a skilled user.
FAKIR REDETTa Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.11.18 20:38:00 - [83] - Quote Remote explosive mix with catnip is BS too nyaaaaaa
ER-Bullitt 593	Posted - 2013.11.18 20:40:00 - [84] - Quote This is a troll, right? I mean you aren't seriously complaining about a lucky shot, are you? Retry that scenario 100 times.. how many times does the forge gunner come out alive? The answer is blue pill.
cooldudesuper1 Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 4	Posted - 2013.11.18 21:05:00 - [85] - Quote O.O if you saw my COD CLONE thread, you could imagine an FG that dose 1000000000000000000000 damage and fires 999999999999999999 times a second, with unlimited ammo, invincibility, 100M/s run speed, aim bots and just PURE OP. every 1520 years, a leap year counts as 2 years-*do your math bro.*
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1181	Posted - 2013.11.18 21:13:00 - [86] - Quote cooldudesuper1 wrote: O.O if you saw my COD CLONE thread, you could imagine an FG that dose 1000000000000000000000 damage and fires 999999999999999999 times a second, with unlimited ammo, invincibility, 100M/s run speed, aim bots and just PURE OP. You do realize how patently ******** you are, and that bringinng up your own irrelevant thread in someone else's is bad form. Also, that isn't 'PURE OP', it's cheating. ECM Equipment
Robocop Junior The Surrogates Of War 362	Posted - 2013.11.18 21:53:00 - [87] - Quote 1. Take your hand. 2. Place it on my crotch. 3. Realize that is just as g@y as this thread.
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 393	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:21:00 - [88] - Quote He probably didn't even direct hit you, he most likely just nailed you with splash, They just need to remove FG splash, it does not need it.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 90	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:26:00 - [89] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: So I see a forge gunner. I close the distance since I have a shotgun... And he turns around. I think "Ok, I'm just 5 meters away, I'll start firing" 1 Shot, shields down. 2nd shot, 1/2 armor down 3rd shot... nope, forge gun charged and kills me. Am I the only one who sees a problem here? Edit: No jackasses, I wasn't running directly at him. I was jumping around in a scout suit. Edit 2: He was inside the redline, sniping my team mates. I decided to get out of my way to take care of him for my team. I had 10 seconds left when I got within range, this was a suicide mission. You had 2 shots with a Shotgun. Cx dam mods Feline friend. The problem is the lack of Slots for scouts to fit them XD If the Forge gunner 1 Shotted you at 5mts away.He was a good shotgunner. You cannot blame something on a weapon when both the skill of a player influences so MUCH .. Plus its a Heavy, its supposed to be hard to kill. Thats why i use Breach Shotguns..... All or nothing. Forgeguns might be BS ,as you say. But they are not OP.
SLENDER M4N POISION ROSES 16	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:46:00 - [90] - Quote if you wanna see the downside of sniping i sugguest watching jonnypew's newest youtube video. Its quite sad seeing your team being useless. What's a "signature"



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