That's a whole lot of tinfoil and words to say "I think CCP is a liar about this thing I want fixed." I need a whole lot more citations and proof before I jump onto this conspiracy.

Now of course no DEV / Blue or the like is alowed to talk about the subject and as a result we havnt heard a word outside a few footnotes in patch notes that try to fix some very specific rendering related issues (like turrets disapearing when you shoot at them and sniper rifles not being able to see anything in their range of operation)

I cringed through read all of your post until


What an armchair programmer thing to say.

As for what you could cite - how about that five month old blue post that you asked the reader to go find? It's your thread, fill it with content instead of inane ramblings about how terrible CCP is.

Is this what insanity is like, am I looking into the mind of a crazy man ?

"The actual issue is rendering CANT be fixed, not anymore, you see when they went about improving the graphics for the game they banked EVERYTHING on it, and now all the art resources, graphics, and a whole lot of core systems are dependant on rendering being broken."
soon as I hit that line i knew you were bonkers.

Every problem associated with programing can be fixed however they are not instant, most of the time you cannot observe code in a live environment at the same time, so narrowing down the problem requires trial and error. This can take a very long time when you cannot reproduce this issue in your test environment.

Ghosts Chance - Have you tried to contact the CPM in regards to this issue?

I would complain to the developers but the only posts to support cause I can find for possible responses are invitation to toxin spewing fest. So no, I am not going to fight for something stabbing me in the back at the same time. I got bigger game breaking bugs to fry anyways such as PC lag, black screens, bad matchmaking drops/idle/fails and PS3 hard/soft freezes.

But you are not a dev. Dev's correct those things. As a CPM it is your job to reflect the voice and concerns of the community. Ignoring such a giant problem not be doing your job as CPM.

I'm sure he'd quite happily pass these threads along if they weren't so mindlessly ragey.

But you are not a dev. Dev's correct those things. As a CPM it is your job to reflect the voice and concerns of the community. Ignoring such a giant problem not be doing your job as CPM.

But you are not a dev. Dev's correct those things. As a CPM it is your job to reflect the voice and concerns of the community. Ignoring such a giant problem not be doing your job as CPM.

CPM do nothing anyways

Also IWS hates vehicles and wants them out of DUST which is well known

Dont ask for help from the CPM you wont get any and they wont do anything

My job is to relay concerns, not voices. There is a lot of voice here and not so much concern, if the OP is truly passionate about the subject he would have gathered a stronger case and let the evidence speak for itself.

If I were to say show this post to the developer responsible he'd think I'd be wearing a bit too much tin foil. Then expects me to snap off his hand at any response.

I'd rather have draw distance past 200m than shiny shadows

My job is to relay concerns, not voices. There is a lot of voice here and not so much concern, if the OP is truly passionate about the subject he would have gathered a stronger case and let the evidence speak for itself.

If I were to say show this post to the developer responsible he'd think I'd be wearing a bit too much tin foil. Then expects me to snap off his hand at any response.

Well how about I take some pictures then? Pics or it didn't happen then, right? How about I show them indisputable factual evidence that rendering is completely broken yielding rails useless at 100m plus? Would that be enough for you?

Just played a domination match on fracture road. I spawned on the east side of the map and found a missile turret in the opposite team's redline and a supply depot in the redline. My tank was sitting just outside of the bravo skirmish socket and the supply depot was directly on top of the charlie skirmish socket for reference. Here is the view from my rail tank in first person view. Notice how the turret is completely invisible after I look at it for a split second. Then here is the view with the small missile turret. Poof, it appears even though the missiles can't shoot for even half of the large rails distance. Finally, here is the view of my sniper rifle on the same turret. Notice the range is 408m, which is well within the range of the rail. The same set of pictures for thre supply depot which was even closer than the missile turret: railmissile turretsniper rifle. The supply depot was only 269m away, yet it was invisible to the rail, but not the missile turret. What do you not understand IWS? My railgun which can hit targets at 600m cannot even see something that is less than 300m away. This is a game breaking issue. Once again, ignoring a problem like this is completely uncalled for. How would you like it if you were to aim at something with your AR and it disappeared within its optimal range? Same goes for rails and blasters.

How about I take the series of three pictures for each of the next five games I play and we can observe the MINOR problem that is rendering and draw distance.

Didn't you get called a total idiot of a pilot by the real pilots in this game?

Sounds like you are desperate, did you make that up? please link the source

Anyways if im not a real pilot who plays PC on a regular basis in a competitve enviroment and have all vehicle skills to 5 and can pilot and use all vehicles effectively then what am i?

im stating it can be fixed, but not without sacraficing all their new pretty art assets that were developed with the new rendering/art system in mind.

meaning sure it can be fixed, IF they want to throw out/spend a long time retrofitting their assets to fit the old system.


the problem is my theory is that they cant figure out how to get chromo rendering with uprising graphics, and have since decided that keeping the art assets takes priority over gameplay.


wich is a rather simple, practical, and realistic conclusion to come to.

from a buisness standpoint it doesnt make sence to fix it, its simply not worth it, and so they have decided to follow their wallet and leave it as it is, simply tweeking it now and then, when absolutly nessesary.


also take note that the dev in question.... doesnt work for CCP anymore

Call me naive I guess. I was just advocating approaching this issue via every proper channel but with a response such as this I would see why many chose not to.

IWS I understand what you are saying but you in turn must also understand that posts of this nature are generated because there has been 6 months of no acknowledgment on an issue that has generated BILLIONS in ISK losses, ruined certain play styles, and disenfranchised a significant segment of the community.

Thankfully it appears that maybe, just maybe we are starting to see some acknowledgement of the issue.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1508459#post1508459

Thank you to all the people (Ghosts Chance and many others) who continue to push the issue.

Ill look these over after I get back from class.

I know just even when I am frustrated with an issue for months on end on my end of the table doesn't give me permission to be a total mule either. Diplomacy they called it, the ability to say nasty things in the most nicest of ways. There is nothing more that I hate to be asked what issues are up and I really really don't have anything good to show for it.

I do say though that the community's 4 months of complaining has not fallen on deaf ears. I mean CPM gets rather annoyed too over this as well and I am sure the developers had been getting a bit tired of it. Just know that sometimes a fix turnaround takes longer than desired if its something that proves difficult to rectify.

(update https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1511170#post1511170)

so we are all familiar with the rendering/draw distance problems, its been a big part of the game and its tactics for 6 months now and over that time ive dedicated quite alot to tracking down information about it and petitioning CCP for an answer as to why its in the game, why its not being fixed, and why nobody at CCP can talk about it.

thats right people at CCP cant actually really talk about the problem without some smoke and mirrors protecting from backlask, and theres a reason for this.

The rendering problems arnt so much a problem, but a FEATURE. for the uprising deployment the higher ups in CCP made a DECISION to sacrafice the ability to see reliably for shinyer graphics in an attempt to lession the visual gap in compairison to current/next gen FPS games.

So CCP poured their resources into making the game as pretty as possable at first glance, in part to compair to other games and in part in an attempt at improving new player retention. due to the reviews dust was getting all referancing its somewhat lackluster graphics at the time this makes sence.



around the time of uprising one of the most notable blue posts before the gag order was a post referancing rendering distance being tied to weapons, and how cutting down the player sight was standard practice in FPS games (you can search this just look for posts in the first month of uprising)

now while that is somewhat true dust doesnt actually use the same system as other FPS games, other games use a fog of war type system that reduces teh clarity of everything on a scale moving outwards fromt eh player, but dusts system just removes player objects after a certain unknown and unmeasurable distance.



Now of course no DEV / Blue or the like is alowed to talk about the subject and as a result we havnt heard a word outside a few footnotes in patch notes that try to fix some very specific rendering related issues (like turrets disapearing when you shoot at them and sniper rifles not being able to see anything in their range of operation)

None of those "fixes" from teh patch notes have actually improved anything however because they fail to adress the actual issue.



The actual issue is rendering CANT be fixed, not anymore, you see when they went about improving the graphics for the game they banked EVERYTHING on it, and now all the art resources, graphics, and a whole lot of core systems are dependant on rendering being broken.


Fixing rendering requires a complete rollback to chromosome for the graphics, rendering all their new pretty art assets useless. wich as far as CCP is concerned is not an option.


so the official stance of CCP on the rendering/draw distance problem is "Working as intended" there are no plans to change the rendering effects/ draw distance settings outside of minor tweeks in the most obvious areas and only when it would effect new player retention.



Untill CCP publicly states otherwise, this is what we have to assume. and since theres a gag order in effect, CCP cant actually state otherwise.


THIS is why i doubt CCP, this is why i dont play much anymore, and this is what will ultimatly kill the game, these kinds of choices will inevitably result in a game full of holes that looks deep on the surface, but cant hold players after they start being effected by the bugs.

TL:DR Working as intended, we replaced it with pretty flowers and now we cant change it back

wow guys, its satire, an over the top dramatization.

~snip~

the rest is all dramatisation guys, i kinda figured that was obvious.

"No guys, really I was just trolling lololol" - you

Hahahahahahahhaha!

Last time I checked the video game business was a service and entertainment industry. Therefore, an unhappy player base is a unhappy quarter.

Consumers have every right to complain, criticize, and want more.

IWS, still awaiting your response to the pictures I posted. Do I need more to prove my point?

I think someone beat us to it a few months ago.

Da fuq? You have said multiple times that it wasn't that bad. I just proved how bad it was. There is no over exaggeration. Only moments that literally only a capture card could get. Unfortunately I don't have one, but I can take pictures of things appearing and disappearing thought he sights of a large turret. So remind me again, why are you not seeing this as an issue that Ned's to be fixed for 1.7?

Needs to be fixed? Absolutely.

Can be fixed? Not likely at all.

They made serious decisions with concrete ramifications when they went with the current graphics build. They are not going to roll back to chromosome graphics so that tankers can see again. We are not large enough of a group to be able to demand such things.

I would love to see what would happen if infantry had to deal with the same problem though. Can you imagine the forum rage if suddenly AR users couldn't see someone until the popped in at around 30m? Oh the hilarity that would ensue.

Target Acquired

Next on the list are view distances, and the issues vehicles have been having with them. We have identified the cause of what we believe to be the major problem in this area and have made improvements to it. There will still be some lag time between when you should see an enemy and when you do, as once he is in range it will take a moment to render him, by which point you will have traveled closer to him. However, overall you should find this improved so check it out and let us know.

point is that after 6 months all i can assume is "working as intended" becuase that was teh last official word on the subject.

By the way guys, you might want to check out the latest dev blog. Namely:

So to confirm then, while the post is about vehicles, the fix will improve the issue with infantry as well?

Will my sniper finally be able to see past 540m to (and maybe even past, for finding) my weapons 600m range again?

* Provided you are sniping on top of a moving vehicle headed towards your enemy.

By the way guys, you might want to check out the latest dev blog. Namely: