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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3733
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Posted - 2013.11.13 11:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Inspired by the fairly successful Operation Retake Mass Effect from back when Mass Effect 3's ending was terrible, this is the official start of Operation Retake Dust 514! (Though it's not quite as abrasive as the title may let on, lol)
The SP Rollover system was proposed a while back and there was a fair bit of discussion regarding it. Somewhere along the line, unfortunately, it got lost in the sea of great ideas that have come to and fro in the game. This Operation is a peaceful reminder that this is something that the community still wants. Obviously, CCP knows this, but it's important to reinforce that appeal and keep up the awareness for those in our community who don't know about it
What is the SP Rollover System
Here's a comment from CCP Nothin about how it could work: Clicky!
It's simple!
- If you have something to say about the current SP accrual system or changes you desire, speak up! 
- Be as civil and polite as possible in your critique 
- Try to stay on topic 
- Most importantly, copy and paste the below into your signature! (this will require a modest 21 characters) 
I Support SP Rollover
That's it! Be sure to tell your friends and let's rally together to show CCP that they will forever be loved for it's implementation 
ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
475
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Posted - 2013.11.13 11:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Signed. Also updated my signature!
+¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13.
I Support SP Rollover.
"Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
653
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Posted - 2013.11.13 11:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Signed here.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
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Booker DaFooker
Ancient Exiles.
163
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Posted - 2013.11.13 11:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
give that man a +1!!
Bullshit Baffles Brains
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steadyhand amarr
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1901
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Posted - 2013.11.13 11:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Given my ttk thread was completely ignored dispite overwhelming support. Good Luck to ya :-(
"my faith is my shield, the empress's light my guide and my fury my sword"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
475
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Posted - 2013.11.13 11:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
I dont think it was ignored steadyhand, I think it is being observed. However, it would be nice if CCP tell us that they are observing threads...
+¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13.
I Support SP Rollover.
"Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
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Musta Tornius
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
649
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Posted - 2013.11.13 11:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Considering we were promised a rollover system almost a year ago, where the hell is it CCP?
Dust514 Weapon Range & Information
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steadyhand amarr
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1901
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Posted - 2013.11.13 12:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:I dont think it was ignored steadyhand, I think it is being observed. However, it would be nice if CCP tell us that they are observing threads...
Given past history of that office they have most likely ignored they normally pass some sort of comment.
All iv gotten is some very wooly answers from cpms who then hid behind the NDA showing that ccp are throwning around ideas that will likely **** us off. In short I have no faith the team involved will get it right as they clearly don't understand shooters like at all
"my faith is my shield, the empress's light my guide and my fury my sword"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Himiko Kuronaga
The Generals
EoN.
2292
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Posted - 2013.11.13 12:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
The roll over system was stopped because it would completely destroy CCP's profit margin.
Why waste several boosters on a month of grinding when you can simply opt to not play, then activate a booster once the rollover total is maxed and blow it all out of the park at once?
This is a free to play game. They aren't making any money if you aren't paying for something.
Let them have their profit on that. There are plenty of other legitimate things to ***** about. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
162
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Posted - 2013.11.13 12:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yes please, and himiko given how long a grind more then just even one week would be, the only people that would cheap out like that aren't really a significant portion of the money spenders that CCP has, and would have the opposite effect on people who do spend a lot of money where they would be more willing to leave a 30day going when they are not playing because they aren't losing anything by doing so, especially if they do it as CCP nothing suggested. |
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Ninjanomyx
Ancient Exiles
431
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Posted - 2013.11.13 12:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
I can see where this would be problematic from a "Devil's Advocate" perspective. Although a Rollover SP System sound all "Sunshine & Lollipops" now.....it is actually a devaluing "Crutch". Should an Active SP Pool be implemented a New Player could essentially use a 30-Day Active Omega & burn out Double SP, thus devaluing the SP Grind of those who came before.
Some would argue that the current 3-7 Day Booster Double Week Circumvention is taking $$$ from CCP, & a Rollover SP System would "Fix" this. I say this is rediculously incorrect & shows a "Blind Fanboy" side as a Consumer. Those who are willing & able to Grindfest for 2 Days between Tuesday & Wednesday are utilizing their available Time & $$$ in the most Logistically sound manner possible, & should not feel bad for being capably intellectual....nor be punished for doing so.
On the other hand.....under a Rollover SP System a 30-Day Active Omega would allow Insta-Farming of entire Months of SP Cap @ 2x Gains. Any lost Passive SP for being a New Player would thusly be negated, & it would now be possible for a New Player to surpass Founders/Vets in Lifetime SP with significantly minimal investment. This issue would be further exacerbated by taking advantage of 2x & 3x SP Week Events. Pop a 7-Day Active Omega every Event & surpass the Earning Potential of all who came before you.
The Player is not @ fault for taking advantage of this, & I truly respect those who would as it shows inherently higher Intellectual Aptitude, but the implementation of such an SP System would be the cause & fault of the Implementer..... This kind of Investment Devaluing would be akin to SoE's DCUO.....& I quit that Cold Turkey. Expect the same here if they F**K things up "Properly"..... |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3734
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Posted - 2013.11.13 12:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think there would be some preventative measures from Rollover SP being a way to lower costs on boosters. Make it so that it only transfers to the next week, so:
Week 1: I have 30,000 left on my cap. It transfers to Week 2.
Week 2: I have 220,400 left on my cap. I burn through about 120,400 of it. 100,000 gets transferred to Week 3.
Week 3: I have 290,400 left on my cap (making it feasibly harder and harder to attain, but still available.)
Then, if we make it so that the remainder is accrued first...
Week 1: I have 30,000 left on my cap. It transfers to Week 2.
Week 2: I have 220,400 left on my cap. I burn through 20,000 of it. Only 190,400 gets transferred to Week 3, as it's all that I would have normally had for the previous week.
Week 3: I have 290,400 left on my cap (making it feasibly harder and harder to attain, but still available.)
Alternatively, rollover SP could only bring a portion of the remainder. So if I had 30,000 left over, and only 20,000 transferred, I would never see that 10,000 SP again but it wouldn't be as much of a system shock to not have it all.
Of course, this might be by design as with the Daily Bonus. If you log on every day, it's awesome, but if you don't log in one day it resets all the way back to the beginning - thus encouraging you to log in every day.
ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
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DoubleTap420
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
106
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Posted - 2013.11.13 12:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Back when we voted to change to cap from daily to weekly ccp said this cap would be temporary. Well this low weekly cap seems permanent. I would like to see a raised weekly cap with a sp rollover system.
Long live scouts! We will prevail one day.
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CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP
144
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Posted - 2013.11.13 12:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:The SP Rollover system was proposed a while back and there was a fair bit of discussion regarding it. Somewhere along the line, unfortunately, it got lost in the sea of great ideas that have come to and fro in the game. This Operation is a peaceful reminder that this is something that the community still wants. Obviously, CCP knows this, but it's important to reinforce that appeal and keep up the awareness for those in our community who don't know about it
Rollover Skill point system was promised to us back in January.
Quote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:
"We are well aware of the fact that the daily/weekly skill point rollover system is the favorite amongst the community, and we are implementing such a system aimed at the next major release."
"We would like to remind you that these changes do not represent the final skill point system and that we are still working hard on getting to the fully polished rollover system later on."
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=486408#post486408
Quote:CCP Frame wrote:
We will monitor the situation after the changes are live and look forward to receiving feedback from you. Once again, we would like to remind you that weekly skill point rollover system is being worked on and that this is just the temporary solution that we are implementing.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=503133#post503133
+1 and I support the cause unfortunately CCP don't give two fucks about this topic anymore.
Just do a search on rollover skill point system and see how many of these threads have just fallen on def ears.
Meh oh well, good luck with this one.
DUST514 I love the dream but not the current product.
Dusters - WhenGäó
CCP - SoonGäó
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Kaltos Darksbane
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
104
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Posted - 2013.11.13 13:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Signed.
Dust 514?...............More like Dust 5150.
I support SP rollover!
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Lorhak Gannarsein
587
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Posted - 2013.11.13 13:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Signed.
I Support SP Rollover
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3818
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Posted - 2013.11.13 13:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
I Support SP Rollover
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Brush Master
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
969
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Posted - 2013.11.13 13:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
another round of give us better SP options, sure why not. If they would do roll over sp and change the boosters to only boost xx amount of sp instead of a timeframe, it would make everyone happy?
GÇá Havok Core - Closed Beta Corp - Accepting Applications Here GÇá
CEO // [email protected]
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Thor McStrut
Reckoners
370
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Posted - 2013.11.13 13:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:The roll over system was stopped because it would completely destroy CCP's profit margin.
Why waste several boosters on a month of grinding when you can simply opt to not play, then activate a booster once the rollover total is maxed and blow it all out of the park at once?
This is a free to play game. They aren't making any money if you aren't paying for something.
Let them have their profit on that. There are plenty of other legitimate things to ***** about.
Here's an idea. How bout a 30 day booster that allows your SP to roll over. At the end of your boosters life, all rolled SP that are not earned are lost. Extended boosters continue the roll over.
Was that so hard? Win/win CCP. FFS, if I can come up with it, surely you can. Get it done! |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
1999
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Posted - 2013.11.13 13:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Potential solution to the argument that "CCP won't make money because people will buy 1 booster and grind like Tony Hawk for the duration of the booster once their SP pool is ginormous."
Make all boosters 1 week boosters, and cap the amount of extra SP to the amount of extra SP a player who caps for two weeks with the current system gets with a booster.
For example, the maximum extra SP you can earn with a 3 day booster occurs when you use the booster a day or two before the sp cap resets, then grind like mad, then continuing grinding like mad after the cap resets for the remaining duration of the booster.
So make that amount of SP the cap on the new weekly boosters. This way no one can actually earn more SP than currently, with boosters or without, but we still get rollover SP.
Unless there is a flaw in my suggestion. I could be missing something obvious, because I've never actually used boosters.
"When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1663
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Posted - 2013.11.13 13:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rollover im fine with aslong as i can get al the SP i missed
So if i dont log in for 3 weeks that means i have 190400 x3 to grind for not including the 4th weeks SP cap
So overall i have 761600 to grind out in 1 week
Now if i use an active omega it means i can basically double that to 1.5mil SP for that 1 week, but i dont want to be punished because i can do this and that i have figured it out, it would be unfair because i may have legit missed a month of DUST for what ever reason and i have a active omega spare to use |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3741
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Posted - 2013.11.13 13:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Potential solution to the argument that "CCP won't make money because people will buy 1 booster and grind like Tony Hawk for the duration of the booster once their SP pool is ginormous."
Make all boosters 1 week boosters, and cap the amount of extra SP to the amount of extra SP a player who caps for two weeks with the current system gets with a booster.
For example, the maximum extra SP you can earn with a 3 day booster occurs when you use the booster a day or two before the sp cap resets, then grind like mad, then continuing grinding like mad after the cap resets for the remaining duration of the booster.
So make that amount of SP the cap on the new weekly boosters. This way no one can actually earn more SP than currently, with boosters or without, but we still get rollover SP.
Unless there is a flaw in my suggestion. I could be missing something obvious, because I've never actually used boosters.
I think it's kind of a moot point because there's nothing stopping you from getting a 1/3-Day Booster and just grinding like mad for that duration. The benefit of having a Month-long booster is that the bonus affects the SP accrued -after- you hit your cap as well.
ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
896
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Posted - 2013.11.13 14:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Someone bake this man a cookie
/signed
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Thor McStrut
Reckoners
371
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Posted - 2013.11.13 14:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Potential solution to the argument that "CCP won't make money because people will buy 1 booster and grind like Tony Hawk for the duration of the booster once their SP pool is ginormous."
Make all boosters 1 week boosters, and cap the amount of extra SP to the amount of extra SP a player who caps for two weeks with the current system gets with a booster.
For example, the maximum extra SP you can earn with a 3 day booster occurs when you use the booster a day or two before the sp cap resets, then grind like mad, then continuing grinding like mad after the cap resets for the remaining duration of the booster.
So make that amount of SP the cap on the new weekly boosters. This way no one can actually earn more SP than currently, with boosters or without, but we still get rollover SP.
Unless there is a flaw in my suggestion. I could be missing something obvious, because I've never actually used boosters.
^^ complicated.
Thor McStrut wrote:Here's an idea. How bout a 30 day booster that allows your SP to roll over. At the end of your boosters life, all rolled SP that are not earned are lost. Extended boosters continue the roll over.
^^Simple and elegent.
You could even go so far as offer a 14, 21, and 60 day version.
Damn, this game design stuff is easy. I think I need to start a new career!  /notserious
Seriously though, if money is the issue here, here's your solution. You guys have no problems releasing boosters for cash, so this isn't P2W outside of your current model. And it's something that players want, instead of renamed variants of what we already have. |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
372
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Posted - 2013.11.13 14:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Rollover im fine with aslong as i can get al the SP i missed
So if i dont log in for 3 weeks that means i have 190400 x3 to grind for not including the 4th weeks SP cap
So overall i have 761600 to grind out in 1 week
Now if i use an active omega it means i can basically double that to 1.5mil SP for that 1 week, but i dont want to be punished because i can do this and that i have figured it out, it would be unfair because i may have legit missed a month of DUST for what ever reason and i have a active omega spare to use
This is a fine line here. Is your active Omega a 30 day? If not, if it was just a 7 day, then I would say no to this idea. Your active booster should only double (or .5x for standard) the current active week. The rolled over SP should be the base 190k, or whatever the weekly cap is based on what active boosters you had during the previous weeks rolled over.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1663
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Posted - 2013.11.13 14:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Rollover im fine with aslong as i can get al the SP i missed
So if i dont log in for 3 weeks that means i have 190400 x3 to grind for not including the 4th weeks SP cap
So overall i have 761600 to grind out in 1 week
Now if i use an active omega it means i can basically double that to 1.5mil SP for that 1 week, but i dont want to be punished because i can do this and that i have figured it out, it would be unfair because i may have legit missed a month of DUST for what ever reason and i have a active omega spare to use This is a fine line here. Is your active Omega a 30 day? If not, if it was just a 7 day, then I would say no to this idea. Your active booster should only double (or .5x for standard) the current active week. The rolled over SP should be the base 190k, or whatever the weekly cap is based on what active boosters you had during the previous weeks rolled over.
For this example its a 7day active
Its not being used, not queued up either, in my hanger waiting to be activated
Why shouldnt i be allowed to use it? sure 1.5mil to grind in 7days is tough but why cant i do it?
The rollover SP is so that even if you missed weeks and weeks of DUST for whatever reason it means that you can come back and still gain all the SP you have missed, its the whole point of the rollover so why cant i use a booster if i have some |
DraC0X
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
21
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Posted - 2013.11.13 14:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Signed +1 Go Dusties Go!!! |
Rentoku Gratzl
Legion of Eden Academics
5
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Posted - 2013.11.13 15:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Signed.
don't understand the point of the cap tbh.
inactive people get kicked automatically now so afking isn't an issue. Obviously we need an auto-kick for people with an elastic band round their right stick spinning in the MCC (so maybe set a redline style countdown on the MCC? Shot for desertion if not deployed...)
all the cap means is that you can only play so much before you stop progressing skill-wise. Why shouldn't those who play more be able to advance more?
of course if I am being naive and there is a good reason for the cap, please forgive me; I've only arrived recently in New Eden |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2166
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 15:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
On SP Changes ...
Any effort to improve NPE benefits all of us. I'm strongly in favor of removing weekly SP cap for new mercs, up to a finite limit. Doing so would permit them free reign to grind toward positive outcomes, setting the hook so to speak.
I'm not sure what cap to propose. Scout builds, for example, begins to suck slightly less hard at around 10M SP; this number is likely lower for less SP intensive paths.
Players like to see results. If we can fast-track their development, the initial suffering would be easier to bear and early attrition rates would likely decline. |
Taurion Bruni
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
The Umbra Combine
192
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Posted - 2013.11.13 15:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
+1
Pilot / D3M3NT3D M1NDZ / I Support SP Rollover
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