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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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GM Grave
Game Masters C C P Alliance
340
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Posted - 2013.11.12 16:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
In order to address some concerns within the community regarding DUST characters and their limited ability to manage corporations when compared to EVE characters, we have updated our evelopedia articles to reflect the current mechanics for corporate shares and voting.
Issues The specific mechanics regarding corporation shares and voting for DUST characters were not published via persistent wiki or blog, and although we did convey information on some of these corporate mechanics during the beta period, this information did not persist onto the new forums, nor was it readily available in game. This inevitably lead to incidents whereby DUST CEO's could find themselves in a position where they are unable to take part in votes for their corporation, to the point where they may even lose their corp via vote when a shareholder decided to replace them.
Policies Under normal circumstances CCP customer support are unable to intervene in corporate power struggles and other trust/scam related game mechanics, as we have found that it is the best interests of both our players and CCP that we let our players decide the outcome of every event within normal game mechanics. However in this instance we have determined that DUST players were placed at a considerable disadvantage by being unable to fully access corporate management tools while also lacking the information on these complex game mechanics.
To this end we have determined that the best course of action is to publish these mechanics on our wiki along with this forum announcement in order to educate players as to the game mechanics involved so that they may protect themselves accordingly.
For issues that occurred before this announcement, we are also willing to review player reports on a case by case basis for those who have been subject to involuntary corporate takeovers or other related issues, and where possible customer support will attempt to assist players with regaining access to their corporations and managing issues with shares. This issue was not considered to be an exploit and as such while we may be forced to intervene in a number of cases we do not plan to take punitive action against those who follow GM instruction. Furthermore we can only offer limited assistance for issues regarding shares and we will be unable to assist with issues arising from the corp theft of ISK/assets by individuals who were granted access via normal game play that did not involve the abuse of shares.
To contact customer support simply click here.
Wikis! Below we have added some warnings to existing evelopedia articles in order to help clarify the mechanics involved.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Player_Corporation "'Warning: DUST Character Role Limitations At this time DUST characters are limited in their ability to manage corporate functions. As such in order to access full corporate functionality it may be required to utilise an EVE character in a director or CEO role. See Shares & Votes for more information."
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Shares "Warning: 'DUST Character Share Limitations At this time DUST characters are unable to participate in share management or the voting system nor can they assign or be assigned shares. Therefore in order to protect corporations created by a DUST character all corporate shares will be assigned to the DUST character by default, should the CEO title be transferred between DUST characters then the shares will also be transferred. However should an EVE character be placed in the CEO position the shares formerly owned by the DUST CEO will be placed into the corporate wallet, at which point that can be or accessed by those with the roles to do so. It should also be noted that a DUST character taking over a corporation from an EVE character will no longer have corp shares automatically assigned to them and may be vulnerable to having directors accessing unassigned corporate shares. See [[Votes]] for more information}"
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Votes "Warning: 'DUST Character Voting Limitations At this time DUST characters are limited in their ability to manage corporate functions. As such in order to access full corporate functionality it may be required to utilise an EVE character in a director or CEO role. Therefore it is important to consider that a DUST character assigned to be CEO of a corporation where shares have been issued to EVE characters cannot participate in voting, should EVE shareholders propose a vote. See Shares for more information.
Lead GM Grave | Project Lead | CCP Customer Relations | EVE Online | DUST 514
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Sentient Archon
1256
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Posted - 2013.11.12 16:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Finally a step in the right direction. Now lets see what 10 things you mess up doing this!
The only troll to successfully troll CCP.
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Aqua-Regia
553
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Posted - 2013.11.12 16:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
not a big step. at less it something.
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GòÜGòñGòñGòñGòñGòñGòñGò¥Dust 514 GòPGò¢§GòÆGòú00GòáGòòGòÜGòí00GòPGò¢
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Kain Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2215
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Posted - 2013.11.12 16:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
I hope this expansion of knowledge leads to more steps is Dust/Eve officer parity down the line.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
835
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Posted - 2013.11.12 17:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Looking forward to future changes :)
DUSTBoard - Mercenary sheets
DUSTSearch - DUST Forum mirror
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Soraya Xel
Violent Intervention Top Men.
761
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Posted - 2013.11.12 17:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
So CCP is going to intervene in lawful use of this that happened prior to this announcement, but not intervene in future abuses, simply because this post exists? I mean, a lot of people are not avid forum readers.
Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC
www.dust-gents.com
Recruiting corporations and players now!
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Sentient Archon
1259
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Posted - 2013.11.12 17:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:So CCP is going to intervene in lawful use of this that happened prior to this announcement, but not intervene in future abuses, simply because this post exists? I mean, a lot of people are not avid forum readers.
They prolly should! You cant tell your gamers to HTFU when you have cut their legs beneath them and expect them to come back to play the game.
That may work in the Eve world where the game is actually good. Not in Dust im sorry!
CCP needs to kick out the HTFU mentality when it comes to Dust and start babying the masses. Once the game gets stabilized and better then they can start HTFUing or "Welcome to New Eden"ing!
The only troll to successfully troll CCP.
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Kain Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2216
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Posted - 2013.11.12 18:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:So CCP is going to intervene in lawful use of this that happened prior to this announcement, but not intervene in future abuses, simply because this post exists? I mean, a lot of people are not avid forum readers.
I agree that this post can't be the only avenue to share this information or to explain it. Heck some very prominent Dust corps have had these mechanics explained poorly by some Eve folks and as a result have made some silly and costly decisions to mitigate risks without actually even mitigating it.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
576
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Posted - 2013.11.12 18:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
You're welcome
Also you should still be very cautious with giving over the CEO position to an untrusted Eve player ... since CEO can make a vote to create new shares.
What happens then I'm not sure, since you hold all the shares there will be no votes cast so presumably no new shares can be created.
Dev confirmation on this scenario could be helpful to many.
Thanks. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
1394
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Posted - 2013.11.12 19:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Can't wait to stage hostile takeovers.
Sadly, I will have to make alts then have those alts make a corp. Then join with my main, start a vote and feel important as my "members"(alts) vote me into the CEO position. |
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Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
365
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Posted - 2013.11.12 19:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:So CCP is going to intervene in lawful use of this that happened prior to this announcement, but not intervene in future abuses, simply because this post exists? I mean, a lot of people are not avid forum readers.
This is like saying "Hey kids, go out and play." but when some stranger walks up to them to offer them candy you get enraged and beat them. But you never taught them not to talk to strangers.
Not everyone came from eve. Not everyone knows how ridiculously harsh that universe is. So being scammed from a game they're not even familiar with and do not even play but have to abide by the rules just to obtain partial mechanics from is rather harsh. They should have made a dev blog of this tbh.
Director (Management)
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
3346
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Posted - 2013.11.12 19:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:You're welcomeAlso you should still be very cautious with giving over the CEO position to an untrusted Eve player ... since CEO can make a vote to create new shares. What happens then I'm not sure, since you hold all the shares there will be no votes cast so presumably no new shares can be created. Dev confirmation on this scenario could be helpful to many. Thanks.
In this case, the vote would pass and the new shares would be created that could then be assigned to anyone by an EVE Director or CEO. This is to prevent cases where the only shareholder disappears and thus no votes can ever pass. In this instance (EVE CEO that doesn't have any shares) I would assign the shares to another EVE Character (doesn't have to be in the same corporation) and if a vote is called, have them vote against adding additional shares.
CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
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Croned
B o u n d l e s s.
513
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Posted - 2013.11.12 22:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Funny how there has never been any mention of plans to add these features to Dust anywhere in the near future. I outright question CCP's priorities when it comes to the development backlog. Corporation management is as much of a core game mechanic to Dust as hit detection. That is, unless CCP actually thinks that the shooter aspect is what differentiates Dust from other shooters and not the whole corporate aspect.
Exploiting Dust
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Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
576
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Posted - 2013.11.12 22:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:In this case, the vote would pass and the new shares would be created that could then be assigned to anyone by an EVE Director or CEO. This is to prevent cases where the only shareholder disappears and thus no votes can ever pass. In this instance (EVE CEO that doesn't have any shares) I would assign the shares to another EVE Character (doesn't have to be in the same corporation) and if a vote is called, have them vote against adding additional shares. Hmm ... yeah so it's still a high risk to temporarily give CEO to an untrusted Eve pilot ... not a problem for our corp since CEO is held by the Eve account of someone who also plays DUST.
But still a big issue for those DUST only corps that want to be involved at alliance levels ... we really should be promoting interplay between Eve and DUST and finding ways for them to interact at all levels, be it in battles, commerce or diplomacy ... You guys really need to work on even the simplest form of Alliance mechanics in the DUST client ... allowing a CEO to send an application to join an Alliance is just about all that is needed to negate this need to hand CEO over to untrusted Eve players.
This really should be bumped up the roadmap guys o7 |
Soraya Xel
Violent Intervention Top Men.
761
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Posted - 2013.11.12 22:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Would CCP Nullarbor like to redact his statements that a DUST alliance UI isn't of utmost importance yet? Seeing that CCP has now agreed to break the sandbox and reverse legal player actions in compensation for their failure to provide the proper MMO-side tools while wasting time with meaningless gun balance work.
Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC
www.dust-gents.com
Recruiting corporations and players now!
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2212
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Posted - 2013.11.12 23:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm happy to see that CCP is listening, though they are failing short on the request submitted to have warnings implemented in game. This is a step in the right direction, but there are some warning messages in game that could be implemented as minimal development cost to also warn players.
The time of your legacy is here. Will you rise?
Join Legacy Rising
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Karl Koekwaus
198
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Posted - 2013.11.13 11:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
This is the mess you get when half arsing features, either go all the way and give people the same options, or don't do it at all, everything else leads to crap like this. Like you said "Play on one Universe under the same ruleset"
This shouldn't have happened in the first place.
Micheal Jackson died for my sins
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
128
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Posted - 2013.11.13 16:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sigh. So the next best thing to useless is this... |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1712
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Posted - 2013.11.13 16:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why not just give dust bunnies the ability to use shares?
CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting...
Level 1 Forum Warrior
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DaNizzle4shizle
THE GOD'Z THEMSELVES
47
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
everything here is great. but only 1 thing is holding corps back. if you are a dust Ceo, you cannot apply to alliances. all we are asking is that you add an alliance tab in the corp neocom so we can apply to alliances without having to risk an eve player taking over our corp. please take this into consideration.
One cannot begin a journey without knowing his sources. Sources meaning friends, equipment and an excellent mind set.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
5062
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Guys, cut CCP some slack over here. They made a mistake that led to several instances that could have been prevented had they posted all the details of corp management in the wiki and here in the forums as they should have in the first place. It stands to reason that CCP might have to retroactively fix a few things that occurred before this latest announcement.
They did state that any future incidents from this point on will NOT see any intervention from CCP. Even the previous incidents that are being retroactively checked will NOT include refunding of ISK or assets.
I understand how a lot of you feel about this, especially since CCP is interfering with the sandbox. But just remember that this is a one-off thing and doesn't usually happen unless CCP knows that they screwed up royally. As Sentient Archon pointed out, it is extremely difficult to seriously tell your fellow players as a Dev that they should harden the **** up when clearly the Dev was at fault for making those players lose their legs.
CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
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Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
370
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Croned wrote:Funny how there has never been any mention of plans to add these features to Dust anywhere in the near future. I outright question CCP's priorities when it comes to the development backlog. Corporation management is as much of a core game mechanic to Dust as hit detection. That is, unless CCP actually thinks that the shooter aspect is what differentiates Dust from other shooters and not the whole corporate aspect.
They mentioned in some of those videos that these things are all on the back burner. They are tabled for another day.
They are more interested in putting in more OP weapons and decreasing TTK time and keeping lagg in the game than actually giving people what they want to see. Isn't that right CCP? Your words may say otherwise but your actions are so... so obvious.
With 1.6 I've lost all my faith in your ability to deliver an entertaining and fun game.
Director (Management)
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
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Xyphilya
Third Rock From The Sun
1
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Who cares about this when CCP cant even fix Comms, invisible walls, people, turrets and swarms. FIX BASIC RENDERING!!! CCP you've now made me hate all Icelantics. Thanks a lot Jerks. Once a Viking ALWAYS a Viking. Happy to know CCP |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
660
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Posted - 2013.11.13 23:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
For a gameing universe where corporations are all powerful and the bedrock of the sandbox, the fact that we as a community have had to fight and pester for every bit of corp UI we've had so for is simply not on really.
Corp mail, notifications, Mark all Read, Delete All, roles, titles, Chat admin, give money, corp wallets, taxation, wallet divisions, player trading.... All of these should've been the minimum we had from day one.
This share issue is something that was going to happen at some point because it seems that properly working corp UI is at the very bottom of the to do list.
I hope that the silver lining in all this is that it gets bumped up much that list now that it's come to the attention of the larger community. But us corp ceo's and alliance leaders have been banging the drum on this issue from the closed beta and onwards.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
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Pryke Bastion
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
138
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Posted - 2013.11.13 23:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:For a gameing universe where corporations are all powerful and the bedrock of the sandbox, the fact that we as a community have had to fight and pester for every bit of corp UI we've had so for is simply not on really.
Corp mail, notifications, Mark all Read, Delete All, roles, titles, Chat admin, give money, corp wallets, taxation, wallet divisions, player trading.... All of these should've been the minimum we had from day one.
This share issue is something that was going to happen at some point because it seems that properly working corp UI is at the very bottom of the to do list.
I hope that the silver lining in all this is that it gets bumped up much that list now that it's come to the attention of the larger community. But us corp ceo's and alliance leaders have been banging the drum on this issue from the closed beta and onwards.
Holy crap. HEAR HEAR!
+1
Pryke out.
Chamberlain of GunFall Mobilization
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
237
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Posted - 2013.11.13 23:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:For a gameing universe where corporations are all powerful and the bedrock of the sandbox, the fact that we as a community have had to fight and pester for every bit of corp UI we've had so for is simply not on really.
Corp mail, notifications, Mark all Read, Delete All, roles, titles, Chat admin, give money, corp wallets, taxation, wallet divisions, player trading.... All of these should've been the minimum we had from day one.
This share issue is something that was going to happen at some point because it seems that properly working corp UI is at the very bottom of the to do list.
I hope that the silver lining in all this is that it gets bumped up much that list now that it's come to the attention of the larger community. But us corp ceo's and alliance leaders have been banging the drum on this issue from the closed beta and onwards.
Chat admin, titles, wallet divisions, corp hangers
+1
Yes, The majority of FPS players could care less about a lot of these things. But, someday, when there is a profitable reason for eve player's to turn their eyes toward dust. Eve players will sink their fingers into everything Dust is and exploit every access point it allows. In it's current state, we are lambs to the slaughter.
Military Director, Dust University
"I am a product of my own perception, I only exist because I allow myself to."
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Pryke Bastion
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
138
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Posted - 2013.11.14 00:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
From my own perspective, I'm noticing a lot of players have finally come to the realization this pitfall exists. This is an issue that has been known by the playerbase that actively participates in corporate mechanics for a long time. We were prudent, did not expose ourselves, and didn't get corp ganked... yet.
Repairing the damage done by corporate spies "breaks the sandbox" as it was said. Would it be fair for me to come cry on the forum because I didn't know that a superior strategy used by another team wiped me out of PC and now I'm out 60 million isk? Would a Dev refund my isk? "Poor bunny, he didn't know any better." You die, you learn. Hell that should be Dust's slogan lol.
EvE community is going to lose it when they hear of this babying.
I do agree that corp UI programming definitely needs to be first priority. The Dust-EvE link is what makes this game unique, DEVELOP it. Claiming that this game is free-to-play but requiring me to subscribe to a monthly paid game to safely manage my corporation is asinine.
TL/DR : HTFU, stop babying ppl who're n00bs to corp management. And Devs get to work on Dust corp UI. I'm collecting tax from EvE pilots that I can't use unless I promote a EvE director who can take my corp away @.@
Pryke out.
Chamberlain of GunFall Mobilization
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RAider Vherikor
Holy Dust Divers
35
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Posted - 2013.11.14 04:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cenex Langly wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:So CCP is going to intervene in lawful use of this that happened prior to this announcement, but not intervene in future abuses, simply because this post exists? I mean, a lot of people are not avid forum readers. This is like saying "Hey kids, go out and play." but when some stranger walks up to them to offer them candy you get enraged and beat them. But you never taught them not to talk to strangers. Not everyone came from eve. Not everyone knows how ridiculously harsh that universe is. So being scammed from a game they're not even familiar with and do not even play but have to abide by the rules just to obtain partial mechanics from is rather harsh. They should have made a dev blog of this tbh.
I agree at least a forum or wiki post should have been put up... and it was... on the EVE forums. (Which should have the DUST forums merged into the EVE forums).
Saying not everyone came from EVE so give them a break is ludicrous. Not my problem. I didn't come from EVE. I came from DUST... I just did the reading a lot better than the other person.
When playing a game... always read the instructions, then go find the rest of the information out there. Internet is a great choice.
And spare me the - "I don't have a computer" statements... if players have enough money for a PS3 and not a computer, they should really take a look at their personal lives and determine what is really important. |
RAider Vherikor
Holy Dust Divers
35
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Posted - 2013.11.14 04:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
GM Grave wrote:In order to address some concerns within the community regarding DUST characters and their limited ability to manage corporations when compared to EVE characters, we have updated our evelopedia articles to reflect the current mechanics for corporate shares and voting.
Issues The specific mechanics regarding corporation shares and voting for DUST characters were not published via persistent wiki or blog, and although we did convey information on some of these corporate mechanics during the beta period, this information did not persist onto the new forums, nor was it readily available in game. This inevitably lead to incidents whereby DUST CEO's could find themselves in a position where they are unable to take part in votes for their corporation, to the point where they may even lose their corp via vote when a shareholder decided to replace them.
Policies Under normal circumstances CCP customer support are unable to intervene in corporate power struggles and other trust/scam related game mechanics, as we have found that it is the best interests of both our players and CCP that we let our players decide the outcome of every event within normal game mechanics. However in this instance we have determined that DUST players were placed at a considerable disadvantage by being unable to fully access corporate management tools while also lacking the information on these complex game mechanics.
To this end we have determined that the best course of action is to publish these mechanics on our wiki along with this forum announcement in order to educate players as to the game mechanics involved so that they may protect themselves accordingly.
So now that this has been posted and the warnings are plain for everyone to see can we get back to our regularly scheduled destruction of corps the old fashioned way without fear of GM interference and steal the shares as before?
Or are we still not able to steal shares from corps lead by DUST514 CEOs? |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
289
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Posted - 2013.11.14 14:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
RAider Vherikor wrote:GM Grave wrote:In order to address some concerns within the community regarding DUST characters and their limited ability to manage corporations when compared to EVE characters, we have updated our evelopedia articles to reflect the current mechanics for corporate shares and voting.
Issues The specific mechanics regarding corporation shares and voting for DUST characters were not published via persistent wiki or blog, and although we did convey information on some of these corporate mechanics during the beta period, this information did not persist onto the new forums, nor was it readily available in game. This inevitably lead to incidents whereby DUST CEO's could find themselves in a position where they are unable to take part in votes for their corporation, to the point where they may even lose their corp via vote when a shareholder decided to replace them.
Policies Under normal circumstances CCP customer support are unable to intervene in corporate power struggles and other trust/scam related game mechanics, as we have found that it is the best interests of both our players and CCP that we let our players decide the outcome of every event within normal game mechanics. However in this instance we have determined that DUST players were placed at a considerable disadvantage by being unable to fully access corporate management tools while also lacking the information on these complex game mechanics.
To this end we have determined that the best course of action is to publish these mechanics on our wiki along with this forum announcement in order to educate players as to the game mechanics involved so that they may protect themselves accordingly.
So now that this has been posted and the warnings are plain for everyone to see can we get back to our regularly scheduled destruction of corps the old fashioned way without fear of GM interference and steal the shares as before? Or are we still not able to steal shares from corps lead by DUST514 CEOs?
Should be able to.
I for one think a couple grief-a-thons will be some wake up moments for the portion of the player base that still sees dust as a f2p game to pass the time while waiting on the next big blockbuster game...there's a lot more to it than that if you peel back the curtain. As the Devs at EVE Vegas pointed out a certain amount of griefing is a good thing.
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