The only thing that will ever shut everybody up would be to have a mock battle documenting it so you have visual evidence. People only believe what they can see.

Basically two people standing 3 meters from each other running full proto with the exact same Gallente suit on with the exact same weapons and module layouts except for one guy has stacked damage mods and one guy has shield extenders, and have them stand across from each other with a third guy video capturing it. Have the third guy who's video capturing it fire a round between them to have them start shooting at each other. Do it several times until you get the two people begin firing at the exact same time, and have them ADS shooting at the center of the other player's torso so no one can claim one guy was getting headshots and the other wasn't.

Until you do that, there will never be an end to the arguing over this, it's all just a waste of words without people being able to see it with their own eyes. But good luck trying.

It's called math.
When you have that, you don't actually have to do it.

- Someone did the math back in closed beta

*raises hand*

And since then, Shield Extenders have gotten a +2% effectiveness/level skill bonus...

Cat is correct, complaining about damage mods always has been, and always will be, pure silliness.

Logis are fine where they are, just give Assualts more eHP and slots.

Using more than one damage mod is a really stupid if you aren't AV or a Sniper or another role that really needs super high damage output.

Multiple mods just create glass cannons.

Let me give you a reality check.
Two parts to this:
1. Shield Extenders > Damage mods
- Someone did the math back in closed beta, shield extenders give you a better milage vs damage mods.
Combined it with damage mod stacking penalties, and the gap widens.
So basically, if you don't have problems with shield extenders, you shouldn't have problems with damage mods.
Third damage mod only gives you 54% of it's original effect btw.

2. Gal Ass can't have both high eHP and high damage
- That's the biggest misconseption on this forum about damage mods and the gal suit.
I created over 70 gal assault fits to try and create the ultimate versatile battle machine.
Putting on damage mods ALWAYS cost me HP/regen/both.
ALWAYS.
No exceptions.

In fact, my suit with two complex damage mods has LESS ARMOR THAN THE AVERAGE CALDARI HAS SHIELDS.
Heck, I can't even fit a duvolle, I use a GEK to save on CPU and PG.

What you SHOULD complain about are logis.
My logi suit can put on three damage mods, a duvolle, and still have much better HP and regen than my assault.



Stop complaining about gal ass, and stop complaining about damage mods.

Let me give you a reality check.
Two parts to this:
1. Shield Extenders > Damage mods
- Someone did the math back in closed beta, shield extenders give you a better milage vs damage mods.
Combined it with damage mod stacking penalties, and the gap widens.
So basically, if you don't have problems with shield extenders, you shouldn't have problems with damage mods.
Third damage mod only gives you 54% of it's original effect btw.

2. Gal Ass can't have both high eHP and high damage
- That's the biggest misconseption on this forum about damage mods and the gal suit.
I created over 70 gal assault fits to try and create the ultimate versatile battle machine.
Putting on damage mods ALWAYS cost me HP/regen/both.
ALWAYS.
No exceptions.

In fact, my suit with two complex damage mods has LESS ARMOR THAN THE AVERAGE CALDARI HAS SHIELDS.
Heck, I can't even fit a duvolle, I use a GEK to save on CPU and PG.

What you SHOULD complain about are logis.
My logi suit can put on three damage mods, a duvolle, and still have much better HP and regen than my assault.



Stop complaining about gal ass, and stop complaining about damage mods.

who's complaining about gal ass? that's my favorite part of a gal... oh wait, we're talking about something else aren't we?

Logis are fine where they are, just give Assualts more eHP and slots.

Using more than one damage mod is a really stupid if you aren't AV or a Sniper or another role that really needs super high damage output.

Multiple mods just create glass cannons.

with that you might as well give scouts and heavies more slots as well to make up for the imbalance of the assault getting more. since most logis have like 8-9 slots (except for the amarr), the assault having 10 seems a bit unfair to what scouts and heavies have to work with

It's not really stupid, it's a play style.
I play as a glass cannon, I run 2x damage mods on my assault.
I wreck everything, and get out when 1/3'rd of my armor has been breached.

On the subject of being OP. Nothing can be unfairly OP because anyone can use them, if they just skill into it. It's not like it's exclusive!

with that you might as well give scouts and heavies more slots as well to make up for the imbalance of the assault getting more. since most logis have like 8-9 slots (except for the amarr), the assault having 10 seems a bit unfair to what scouts and heavies have to work with

I dunno, 5 dmg mods on PLC gives me enough edge to OHKO anyone that doesn't shield tank

This is kind of obvious.
Any buff to assaults would require (demand) a buff to scouts and heavies.

Seems fair. But you'd also need to increase their CPU/PG to accommodate the increased amount of slots.

And when you are counting slots on the logistics, I truly hope you aren't including equipment slots. As they should always have more equipment than other roles.

Right, forgot about that.

Your argument about the whole "math" thing isn't actually a valid argument.

Don't believe me?

Look, there are 4 types of encounters in this game:

-You suprise enemy (Advantage = You)
-Enemy suprises you (Advantage = Enemy)
-Both players start shooting at each other at about the same time (No advantages)
-Both players walk past each other without noticing the other (No advantages)

Obviously there are some special circumstances on top of these (height, distance, weapon type, etc.), but if we assume both players are using the same loadouts and are both on even ground, then whoever shoots first will obviously be the winner.
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Which brings me to my first point:

1. Damage mods are for aggressive fittings, extenders are for defensive fittings.

Wnat this means is that if you are good at flanking, keeping the advantage, and using intel (radar, scanners, squad chat), you will do even better with damage mods. The only thing that can counter advantages is reaction time or more ehp.

Shield extenders should be used if you are not trying to fight back as much, and instead only rely on your weapon to defend yourself if running away isn't an option.
_________________________

2. Reaction time counters damage mods

If an enemy can react faster than you can deal enough damage to defeat them, you lose. Damage mods make sure that the enemy has little time to react, increasing the chance of success.

Shield extenders are good for players with slower reaction times, and players that find themselves constantly being the one flanked instead of the one flanking.
___________________________

3. Even grounds are where extenders shine

If you constantly find yourself in 1on1 matches where both you and the enemy standoff until one player goes down, extenders are the better option. This is where the whole "math" thing comes into play. Yes, extenders will always win over damage mods if neither player has the advantage.
_______________________________

To sum up:

Damage mods are only good if you can actually deal damage to your opponent. If your opponent has the advantage, your damage mod will have been wasted. When you run damage mods you must always take the advantage to make use of the small decrease in time to kill.

Shield extenders are better for making sure you have enough time to find who is shooting at you so you can fire back. They also provide a good buffer for armor tanks as the longer you can delay the enemy eating into your armor, the less time you have to spend repping that chunk of armor.

Either way, it all depends on what kind of fitting you're using, your playstyle, your reaction time, and especially your weapon. Shotguns can OHKO without damage mods, but damage mods just increase the damage that the shot does in case you miss. The forge gun is completely different though, as damage mods can make the weapon destroy turrets in 2 shots instead of 3 or 4. This not only decreases time spent shooting/reloading, but conserves a lot more ammo too.

I like how you had to put that bit in about Logi suits at the end!

Short of nerfing a logi suit into the ground, a squad of logis will always beat an assault suit, why? Because they have choice, you could make it identical to assault suits with extra equipment, they would still win because they have choice. Thats the way it should be, I think the assault should be moved down the tree and replaced with crusader and/or grenadier suits.

I love a gal's ass.

uhh... no.
Nowhere does it say that logistics is a better assault.
It says it's a support platform, and yet it's used as an assault suit that can beat pretty much every assault suit.

But it is and always will be, unless you make either assaults stupidly overpowered, or logis stupidly underpowered. Its a dropsuit weilding a weapon and a ****-tonne of equipment, you could limit them to sidearms and I'd still put my money on the logi squad!

By nature of what a logi is he is gonna win in every scenario, as for the assault, what is the actual point in them over the standard racial?

The only difference between the standard and assault suits is the racial bonuses and prehaps a little more fitting, so why do we need a suit specifically for assaulting, when the standard, logistics, heavies, commamdos and hell even sentinel suits can do just as well, if not better?

I put to you its not the logistics suit that is game breaking, but the assault, noobs and vets alike spec into the suit because of the name, "assault", when really its not gonna give them that extra oomph it sounds like it will. In addition using the assault suit as yard stick is gonna make the game horrendously unbalanced.

If you wanna make it a pure "support platform" go ahead but

do you really think people are gonna play logi, just to support some brickhead assault
do you really think people are gonna play sentinel, just wait for some brickhead assault
do you really think people are gonna play scout, just to scan some brickhead assault
do you really think people are gonna play commando, just to be av squad support for some brickhead assault
do you really think peopel are gonna play pilot, just to be vehicular support for some brickhead assault

that same brickhead assault who thinks he is god's gift to new eden, because he is the one who chose to be the assault?
If you answered yes to all of them, go play COD, because if you make one suit supperior for assaulting, no-one is gonna want to play a role that involves mopping up behind him.

Damage mods, you actually have to equip, proficiency is always on and "stacks" with damage mods. Which one is OP?

Logis are inherently overpowered.
A sidearm only would 100% make them equal to assaults, just in support rather than in direct combat.
But people don't want that, so \/o\/

Sorry, made a mistake, I wrote "logis are inherently overpowered" rather than aren't.
Ooops.

i agree with your statement however doesnt this then explain why logi's need the high hp tiers and settle the logi=OP argument ..i mean (i dont think logis are op.) although as an amarian logi i dmg tank...my goal is to stay by my mates with my proto repper ammo and injector..and use cqc weapons and splash like md ar lr (sidearm smg) to teamfire whatever my squad mates are shooting at..my logi playstyle is different than the average logi i am a mid to long range battle support logi..\\

i feel the other logi types all validly need to tank hp (other than amar)

and your statement explains why

Not to agree or disagree, but weapon damage has also gone up on many weapons as well since then. More damage per bullet means more damage added per bullet per damage mod. Again, not to be argumentative, just sayin'.

Proficiency costs a buttload of SP for one weapon.
It's to push it to the max.

Exactly, I find it funny when people try to poke fun at or ridicule those that use damage mods, claiming no gun game, crutch, etc. Yet, they stack on more health with shield extenders as if that isn't a bigger crutch.

And logi suits needs a nerf in the number of high and low slots. Logis shouldn't be able to stack health like they do.

1.10*(1+.10*.87)=1.1957

Although there is a stacking penalty, two 10% damage mods yield a increase in damage of 19,6%.

Prof 5 yields 15%.

1.15*1.1957 = 1.375%

So, 2 damage mods bring you from 1.15 to 1.375 .. which is 22.5% from your base damage.

That's the reason, why damage always wins ... multiplicative stacking.

Edit: 3 damage mods

= 1.45

30% increase from base damage 1.15 with prof 5

Even if you take away my light weapon slot I will still wreck your face with my SMG.

But anyways, to the topic at hand - I don't like damage mods. I've actually even thought before that dam mods should be taken out of the game. But I've grown to accept them as 1 little part of the greater diversity that the drop suit system gives this game. Some people like to glass cannon their way through red brains and others like to run around in a heavy medium suit, tanking round after round like a terminator. There is no reason to limit people's options.