The only thing that will ever shut everybody up would be to have a mock battle documenting it so you have visual evidence. People only believe what they can see.

Basically two people standing 3 meters from each other running full proto with the exact same Gallente suit on with the exact same weapons and module layouts except for one guy has stacked damage mods and one guy has shield extenders, and have them stand across from each other with a third guy video capturing it. Have the third guy who's video capturing it fire a round between them to have them start shooting at each other. Do it several times until you get the two people begin firing at the exact same time, and have them ADS shooting at the center of the other player's torso so no one can claim one guy was getting headshots and the other wasn't.

Until you do that, there will never be an end to the arguing over this, it's all just a waste of words without people being able to see it with their own eyes. But good luck trying.

It's called math.
When you have that, you don't actually have to do it.

- Someone did the math back in closed beta

*raises hand*

And since then, Shield Extenders have gotten a +2% effectiveness/level skill bonus...

Cat is correct, complaining about damage mods always has been, and always will be, pure silliness.

Logis are fine where they are, just give Assualts more eHP and slots.

Using more than one damage mod is a really stupid if you aren't AV or a Sniper or another role that really needs super high damage output.

Multiple mods just create glass cannons.

Let me give you a reality check.
Two parts to this:
1. Shield Extenders > Damage mods
- Someone did the math back in closed beta, shield extenders give you a better milage vs damage mods.
Combined it with damage mod stacking penalties, and the gap widens.
So basically, if you don't have problems with shield extenders, you shouldn't have problems with damage mods.
Third damage mod only gives you 54% of it's original effect btw.

2. Gal Ass can't have both high eHP and high damage
- That's the biggest misconseption on this forum about damage mods and the gal suit.
I created over 70 gal assault fits to try and create the ultimate versatile battle machine.
Putting on damage mods ALWAYS cost me HP/regen/both.
ALWAYS.
No exceptions.

In fact, my suit with two complex damage mods has LESS ARMOR THAN THE AVERAGE CALDARI HAS SHIELDS.
Heck, I can't even fit a duvolle, I use a GEK to save on CPU and PG.

What you SHOULD complain about are logis.
My logi suit can put on three damage mods, a duvolle, and still have much better HP and regen than my assault.



Stop complaining about gal ass, and stop complaining about damage mods.

Let me give you a reality check.
Two parts to this:
1. Shield Extenders > Damage mods
- Someone did the math back in closed beta, shield extenders give you a better milage vs damage mods.
Combined it with damage mod stacking penalties, and the gap widens.
So basically, if you don't have problems with shield extenders, you shouldn't have problems with damage mods.
Third damage mod only gives you 54% of it's original effect btw.

2. Gal Ass can't have both high eHP and high damage
- That's the biggest misconseption on this forum about damage mods and the gal suit.
I created over 70 gal assault fits to try and create the ultimate versatile battle machine.
Putting on damage mods ALWAYS cost me HP/regen/both.
ALWAYS.
No exceptions.

In fact, my suit with two complex damage mods has LESS ARMOR THAN THE AVERAGE CALDARI HAS SHIELDS.
Heck, I can't even fit a duvolle, I use a GEK to save on CPU and PG.

What you SHOULD complain about are logis.
My logi suit can put on three damage mods, a duvolle, and still have much better HP and regen than my assault.



Stop complaining about gal ass, and stop complaining about damage mods.

who's complaining about gal ass? that's my favorite part of a gal... oh wait, we're talking about something else aren't we?

Logis are fine where they are, just give Assualts more eHP and slots.

Using more than one damage mod is a really stupid if you aren't AV or a Sniper or another role that really needs super high damage output.

Multiple mods just create glass cannons.

with that you might as well give scouts and heavies more slots as well to make up for the imbalance of the assault getting more. since most logis have like 8-9 slots (except for the amarr), the assault having 10 seems a bit unfair to what scouts and heavies have to work with

It's not really stupid, it's a play style.
I play as a glass cannon, I run 2x damage mods on my assault.
I wreck everything, and get out when 1/3'rd of my armor has been breached.

On the subject of being OP. Nothing can be unfairly OP because anyone can use them, if they just skill into it. It's not like it's exclusive!

with that you might as well give scouts and heavies more slots as well to make up for the imbalance of the assault getting more. since most logis have like 8-9 slots (except for the amarr), the assault having 10 seems a bit unfair to what scouts and heavies have to work with

I dunno, 5 dmg mods on PLC gives me enough edge to OHKO anyone that doesn't shield tank

This is kind of obvious.
Any buff to assaults would require (demand) a buff to scouts and heavies.

Seems fair. But you'd also need to increase their CPU/PG to accommodate the increased amount of slots.

And when you are counting slots on the logistics, I truly hope you aren't including equipment slots. As they should always have more equipment than other roles.

Right, forgot about that.

Your argument about the whole "math" thing isn't actually a valid argument.

Don't believe me?

Look, there are 4 types of encounters in this game:

-You suprise enemy (Advantage = You)
-Enemy suprises you (Advantage = Enemy)
-Both players start shooting at each other at about the same time (No advantages)
-Both players walk past each other without noticing the other (No advantages)

Obviously there are some special circumstances on top of these (height, distance, weapon type, etc.), but if we assume both players are using the same loadouts and are both on even ground, then whoever shoots first will obviously be the winner.
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Which brings me to my first point:

1. Damage mods are for aggressive fittings, extenders are for defensive fittings.

Wnat this means is that if you are good at flanking, keeping the advantage, and using intel (radar, scanners, squad chat), you will do even better with damage mods. The only thing that can counter advantages is reaction time or more ehp.

Shield extenders should be used if you are not trying to fight back as much, and instead only rely on your weapon to defend yourself if running away isn't an option.
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2. Reaction time counters damage mods

If an enemy can react faster than you can deal enough damage to defeat them, you lose. Damage mods make sure that the enemy has little time to react, increasing the chance of success.

Shield extenders are good for players with slower reaction times, and players that find themselves constantly being the one flanked instead of the one flanking.
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3. Even grounds are where extenders shine

If you constantly find yourself in 1on1 matches where both you and the enemy standoff until one player goes down, extenders are the better option. This is where the whole "math" thing comes into play. Yes, extenders will always win over damage mods if neither player has the advantage.
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To sum up:

Damage mods are only good if you can actually deal damage to your opponent. If your opponent has the advantage, your damage mod will have been wasted. When you run damage mods you must always take the advantage to make use of the small decrease in time to kill.

Shield extenders are better for making sure you have enough time to find who is shooting at you so you can fire back. They also provide a good buffer for armor tanks as the longer you can delay the enemy eating into your armor, the less time you have to spend repping that chunk of armor.

Either way, it all depends on what kind of fitting you're using, your playstyle, your reaction time, and especially your weapon. Shotguns can OHKO without damage mods, but damage mods just increase the damage that the shot does in case you miss. The forge gun is completely different though, as damage mods can make the weapon destroy turrets in 2 shots instead of 3 or 4. This not only decreases time spent shooting/reloading, but conserves a lot more ammo too.

I like how you had to put that bit in about Logi suits at the end!

Short of nerfing a logi suit into the ground, a squad of logis will always beat an assault suit, why? Because they have choice, you could make it identical to assault suits with extra equipment, they would still win because they have choice. Thats the way it should be, I think the assault should be moved down the tree and replaced with crusader and/or grenadier suits.