I tried putting this in General but I can't even get people to tell me I'm stupid for suggesting it. Is the post too long and needs a TL;DR?

TL;DR Segregate battles by the total Meta value.

Use the security status of the system the battle is in to determine the gear that can be used. Take all the meta ratings from everything on the the suit and add the suit meta number to get the total meta for the entire fit. Use that number to segregate battles so that mercs can choose the difficulty of battles based on suit setups.

1.0 sec status battles would have a total meta of two. I had to use two because the medic carries a meta one injector on a meta one suit. No squads and only free LAVs allowed in the sec stat one battles and with the super low meta level - just enough for starter gear - they would be an automatic training area.

0.9 sec stat would have a total meta of around five. I used five because the starter fits usually have a TM ( total meta) of one and would allow most suits to add a few new items to boost the suit. All militia gear with the exception of suits and equipment are level meta zero and as far as I know all basic gear is meta one. With a TM of 5 a merc could customize a suit with a few basic items or try out weapons that are different. No pre-battle squads, only squads made on the war barge would be allowed and only free LAVs. Mercs can squad up in the war barge but are dropped from the squad at the end.

0.8 sec stat would be around eight. Advanced weapons starts around meta five the modules and suits start around three. Mercs with low skill would know that they were going to up against similar types of suits and weapons. As an added bonus the choices made in fittings and SP would create a wider diversity of suit fit on the battle field because to try out a more advanced item we would have to sacrifice something. I may have an advanced suit with an extra slot that I can only put militia mods into but the guy in the militia suit caring an advanced AR might get me first. War barge squads that last out of battle but no pre battle squads. All militia vehicles and militia mods.

0.7 sec stat would be about 20. With the advanced suit meta at four, weapon at seven and modules at three I think 20 would be a good number. Using eight slots for the standard suit minus the 11 meta points for suit and weapon we could fit nine more meta points to the suit. That is only three advanced mods or nine basic adding to the weight of choices. Prototype gear should start to show up but it would limit module and weapon choices so even lower tier suits that with proper fits and well placed SP would do well. Pre- battle squads allowed and all advanced vehicles and mods.

0.6 sec stat would be 32. Porto suits have a meta number of seven, weapons are eight and modules are four. Suit and weapons at prototype levels would be 15 leaving 17 points to fit 10 modules. 10 proto modules at 4 points each is 40 so there would not be enough points to go around. Again sacrifices would have to be made and choices of fits and SP would have influences. All vehicles allowed.

0.5 sec stat would be 64 and allow more high tier items and better fittings but still keep total proto pub stomps. This last area would be the final stepping stone to anything goes. All of these battles would have standard payout and slavage. These battles are for players of different SP and personal skill and I tried to scale them so they would become progressively harder and pay out differently because of the the gear players use.

Low Sec battles would allow any fit and pay out better. Six man pre-battle squads allowed and all vehicle types. Aur weapon drops. All battle types.

FW battles would be set up like EVE with size of the plex influencing the type of planetary battle. The novice site creating 0.8 battles, small creating 0.7, medium creating 0.6 and large creating 0.5. These battles would payout better ISK than normal battles and drop officer gear. These battles are again segregated to allow players of different skill levels to play at the level they are at and experiment with new gear and fits.

Null battles are the final type and are totally random on the type of battle selected. These battles would also allow a full war barge team stack. After selecting a battle the merc would have a few minutes to invite as many people as they wanted on their team up to the max. They would not know who is on the other team or what type of battle they would be fighting. Regular, Aur and officer weapon drops with the best pay.

These are my ideas for the battle finder. I did not have the time to go to every suit at every tier on every frame size so some numbers will need to be adjusted and talked about. My goal was to have a system similar to EVE that encourages players to move to progressively harder battles in search of ISK and specialize in a role. Separating the battles based on a total meta number ensures that the levels of dropsuits will be similar enough to allow for experimentation.

Your stupid for suggesting this lol.

General response will be that we have an inadequate player base to sustain a constant availability of games across these levels, when the Oceanic server is already all but empty.

Oceanic server is empty during the day. Which kinda actually makes sense because it's night there.

You think no one looked at you're long thread cos it was long?

Online population makes it nearly impossible to fill a match, but who says we need to? The matchmaking system should adjust team volume. That would be more fun. Example: proto stomping squad searches for a match and in response the matchmaker donates some of their remaining team slots to the other team.
26 players fresh out of the academy versus 6 protos would be fun to watch (worst case scenario) But the match volume stays the same.

If you bring that kind of "balance" to the game it wouldn't allow fresh players to squad up with experienced players etc. New players learn a lot joining experienced squads. Also you learn when you fight better players, you don't have any progress playing on the same level with people equally good or bad :-P Also, if they change matchmaking they will have to do something about statistics, because the guys in first 100 on the killboard have been killing blueberries for a year or so, and now, if the rules change people will not be getting easy kills no more and no one will never reach these guys in first 100..

Sure they could, unless their experienced friends are douche bags who refuse to sink to " meta level 5 nooberry suits". Experience would be better as well BC as it is, I learn nothing watching proto players. Their ttk, skill setup, suits, etc are nothing in the same league as mine.the only thing I learn from experienced players is that, A: I'm a noon for skilling assault and not slayer lodgy, B: I need proto rail rifles, and c: I need to stack damage mods and armor.

All well and good but only hold relevance for something I don't have now, gear oriented training and experience doesn't need to be demonstrated. The things more relevant to less experienced players is tactics, team work, and gear builds for the meta level they have.

So what effect does this have on experianed players out being able to help newer players? Oh that their dicks and won't run lesser suits? Only some are.

Also they would still run against more experienced players and get better from it. I learn very little from getting killed by a proto who's kills me in 3 seconds. I learn a lot dancing strafing and dealing with experienced players similarly equipped who can still beat me. All I learn from protos is stack damage mods and when dealing with lesser equipped players, you can just tank 2 lesser equipped players without trying.

Very well, but the doors shouldn't be closed forever for mixed experienced players, there should still be an option for everybody to play on the same battlefield..

no, you put to much faith in the community.
alot of people would max out core skills to go kd/r padding in 1.0
to many divisions for small player base
i dont agree on gear limitations anyway

Great idea. Let's create a system where all the games top players are able to deliberately enter game modes where all the newest players are forced to enter. That would be very balanced

System security should only limit gear based on its potential for collateral damage. Prototype suits are untested weapons, so they should be allowed anywhere. Highsec should frown on the use of artillery, armoured fighting vehicles, and orbital bombardment.

Lowsec should have fewer restrictions, and nullsec should have none whatsoever.

Like this.

But, why not set it to Select 3/5 Fits to take to battle, add total meta, average the meta, select Security status player is matched to.

Might make people just Having a crapton of fits, so people cant just have a Scout fit, and a heavy fit, and a sniper fit, and a AV fit, and a Shotty fit, and a Med Frame fit, and a Logi fit.... and so on.

Like this.

But, why not set it to Select 3/5 Fits to take to battle, add total meta, average the meta, select Security status player is matched to.

Might make people just Having a crapton of fits, so people cant just have a Scout fit, and a heavy fit, and a sniper fit, and a AV fit, and a Shotty fit, and a Med Frame fit, and a Logi fit.... and so on.

There is no other way for a players with low skills to be able fight others in thier skill range or gear level. I think it is the best answer to the problems. Some fights are not going to be full and some areas may not even have enough players to generate a battle. If that is the case then the merc either nerfs to move up in security status to find a fight in low level gear or step up and try a harder battle.

FTFY.

You'd think that Untested Suit/weapon/vehicle/equipment with a Fusion reactor strapped to the back would be frowned upon by CONCORD. Don't want nobody getting no Cancer.

Think about it.

I just don't see your system producing any different results. Due to the skill levels of older player being higher it makes sense they would obliterate a new player. This isn't Barney and Friends the Singalong this is Dust 514, MMOishFPS which in my mind means having a number of choices other than what we have. I really don't think having empty areas would be a problem if CCP made the map system from eve work in dust or Eve players able to see dust players in space and on the ground.

The map giving useful if dated intel would provide a way to find and hunt kill mercs. Just like what is used in Eve for planning a roam it would carry over to Dust. Giving statistics that are updated every 30 mins for all sorts of stuff such as average mercs on district etc. This allows a merc to look at the map and plan a route travelling amongst the districts to try and find a group running missions or doing exploration.

Another thing to consider, if the agent for the missions were on the planet at a district office of some sort there would be a standard distance of 0-5 districts jumps max that a mission would need you to move through and kill NPCs in to complete a mission, what a beautiful thing to know, time to set some ambushes.

These High-Sec, Low-Sec, and Null-Sec mission hubs would most definitely have the precedence from Eve to set some boundaries as to what you can use based on Eve game mechanics if it's a direct port of missions into the game BUT even High-sec mission runners can use T2 (our protogear) in LV4 or LV5 missions. There is no logical reason in my mind to restrain people from bringing any type of gear to any of the matches we have currently.

Do you see an I-Win button tag on any of the suits or vehicles that we currently have? Its not like we have the Eve Universe's penile extension ships called TITANs such as the Erebus or Avatar mirrored in any of our vehicles or suits, TLDR no need for an exclusion of suits, vehicles or vessels of any kind from any of the PUB matches we have.

The win button is prototype against fresh out noobs. Prototype gear isn't prohibited in any but the highest few sec stats (1.0-0.8) because with a total meta a merc could fit a prototype weapon on a suit but they would have to sacrifice something to get that weapon into that district. It is more about giving us choices and making us choose our fits than trying to protect people. Random battles don't make us feel like we are in control and don't add to the sandbox we were promised, in fact is restricts us more because there are people we will never fight because of the matchmaking algorithm.

The I win button I refer to is the UNKILLABLE. In Eve the Titans cannot be killed by a Sub-Capital, it just can't happen. We have no such items in dust.

Edit: Even day one noobs can kill proto suits if they focus fire.

I can go with that. We have to give some on how players interact. As it is now we have very limited choices. In EVE I can fly to a 0.7 system to get away from PVP, I can go to low to get away from bubbles and bombs. We need choices that allow us to pick out fights because all we have now is a button to push and crossed fingers

In Eve I can PVP in 1.0 space, I just need to trick the other guy into messing up and accepting a duel...I can go to low and harrass FW pilots without needing to join FW, stealing their faction fits off their wrecks, in null I can go SB the crap out of large fleet engagements and get kill mails on both sides without joining either...in dust I can pub or more pub or PC if there is someone wanting to fight but that doesn't mean we have choices.

What could be a further refinement on the idea of making battles gear-dependant

I know this isn't EVE.

In EVE I can fly through five systems in low or null and not see a sole, it is part of the experience of being in space. Maybe we should have to go looking for a fight. If it is ever going to be a sandbox then we need to be able to move around to different systems. My idea only goes to the sec stat level not the system level. Can't find a fight in a 0.6 then move up to 0.7 or down to 0.5.

I just don't see your system producing any different results. Due to the skill levels of older player being higher it makes sense they would obliterate a new player. This isn't Barney and Friends the Singalong this is Dust 514, MMOishFPS which in my mind means having a number of choices other than what we have. I really don't think having empty areas would be a problem if CCP made the map system from eve work in dust or Eve players able to see dust players in space and on the ground.

The map giving useful if dated intel would provide a way to find and hunt kill mercs. Just like what is used in Eve for planning a roam it would carry over to Dust. Giving statistics that are updated every 30 mins for all sorts of stuff such as average mercs on district etc. This allows a merc to look at the map and plan a route travelling amongst the districts to try and find a group running missions or doing exploration.

Another thing to consider, if the agent for the missions were on the planet at a district office of some sort there would be a standard distance of 0-5 districts jumps max that a mission would need you to move through and kill NPCs in to complete a mission, what a beautiful thing to know, time to set some ambushes.

These High-Sec, Low-Sec, and Null-Sec mission hubs would most definitely have the precedence from Eve to set some boundaries as to what you can use based on Eve game mechanics if it's a direct port of missions into the game BUT even High-sec mission runners can use T2 (our protogear) in LV4 or LV5 missions. There is no logical reason in my mind to restrain people from bringing any type of gear to any of the matches we have currently.

Do you see an I-Win button tag on any of the suits or vehicles that we currently have? Its not like we have the Eve Universe's penile extension ships called TITANs such as the Erebus or Avatar mirrored in any of our vehicles or suits, TLDR no need for an exclusion of suits, vehicles or vessels of any kind from any of the PUB matches we have.

Gan

I like it. Adjusting the numbers is something for a pro not me. I would like to try to stay away from a system that only allows one tier in a certain area. I would hope giving up a module to be able to fit a better weapon would be an option.

Player numbers is a problem but so is the endless stomping in proto suits. Core skills will make the higher SP player better in an area that somehow restricts fits but that is the price of greatness and I don't see anyway around it.

Hey guys. Great development on the topic here. Love to read the thread (subscription tease).

Just had a complementive idea, a different way of adressing the same problem, if you will. What about if the public contracts display their overall ISK payout? Would'nt this deliver a "low governance" solution, fitting for a competetive environment?

Just a crude thought experiment here, feel free to adjust the payout increase as you will:

High sec pub contract: Overall Payout 500.000 ISK
Low sec pub contract: Overall Payout 3.000.000 ISK
Null sec pub contract: Overall Payout 10.000.000 ISK

Like already established in game the payout would be individually modified for each participant, via WP, time in battle, etc. Well there are no formulas around, so I can't go into any detail there.

So the participation is only regulated by the amount of ISK in the Pot (no Meta required). The bigger the Pot, the more serious the competition gets (reflected in maybe using the best gear available?). So Null sec would naturally attract the tryhardy players with high ambitions. High sec would be somewhat unattractive for them (no risk, no profits, no fun). There would be just not so much to get as elsewhere. And clever Players that can make a difference with mediocre gear have a great potential profit margin, while the Newbs would have a low profit, low investment area to get their skills up to par.

Still the choice would be yours, you even could get lucky in low sec. If there are no high SP players around, you could strike a great deal as a newb too.

Feel free to comment on this Idea / tear it apart and do it terrible violence in a dark corner ... I would be honored

Hmm, I like the idea. No physical restrictions, you can run whatever you want, yet running a high sec in proto isn't cost efficient. Well, if you don't die it is.

BUT, what's to stop a player from running standard gear in high sec, raking in the money with minimal losses. Then taking those winnings and playing proto in high sec.

Why would you even want to play in high sec, when you could run cheap fits in null sec and rake in the money. I see null sec being the most popular and played. But of course, I could be wrong. Just making assumptions of player actions that I can't know for sure.

Now, if the most of the payout went to the winner, with the losers netting a very small sum (like 50k), there would be a push to run more proto. But, at the same time proto is VERY expensive, so losing a battle means loosing a lot for a little. So running proto in high sec would be somewhat attractive.

What do you think eh?

Yes that could be a problem. I thought the payout would need to be very small in high sec relative to null sec. That could, like you say, make high sec a pretty unpopular gamemode. Which would be great by me. It's an extended academy with less security (possible proto users), after all.

Your second point is interesting. What would discourage the use of proto gear in high sec / encourage the use in null sec other than the sheer amount of the Payout, but still ISK-related? Maybe the Payout-Curve has to be even steeper, so that, if you are able to run proto, its very unattractive for you to even consider high sec matches.

High sec: 10 000 ISK maximal individual Payout (militia Bpos costeffective)
Low sec: 100 000 ISK maximal individual Payout (basic gear costeffective. Advanced gear eventually)
Null sec: 1 000 000 ISK maximal individual Payout (proto gear costeffective, eventually)

Plus the amount within the team has a steeper falloff, the lower you score (in null sec). So you really want to make a difference WP wise:

Finished 1st: 1000k ISK
Finished 2nd: 700k ISK
...
Finished 16th: 10k ISK

In high sec the falloff would be much softer, with the last one earning about 75% of the top player. What do you think of that?

But at the very least, newer people to the game would have a place to go to feel useful. So either way it would work out in favor of the most neglected (and non existent) part of the player base. The new bros. I think that's the most important thing, more players means better matchmaking!