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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1177
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Posted - 2013.11.08 13:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
I tried putting this in General but I can't even get people to tell me I'm stupid for suggesting it. Is the post too long and needs a TL;DR?
TL;DR Segregate battles by the total Meta value.
Use the security status of the system the battle is in to determine the gear that can be used. Take all the meta ratings from everything on the the suit and add the suit meta number to get the total meta for the entire fit. Use that number to segregate battles so that mercs can choose the difficulty of battles based on suit setups.
1.0 sec status battles would have a total meta of two. I had to use two because the medic carries a meta one injector on a meta one suit. No squads and only free LAVs allowed in the sec stat one battles and with the super low meta level - just enough for starter gear - they would be an automatic training area.
0.9 sec stat would have a total meta of around five. I used five because the starter fits usually have a TM ( total meta) of one and would allow most suits to add a few new items to boost the suit. All militia gear with the exception of suits and equipment are level meta zero and as far as I know all basic gear is meta one. With a TM of 5 a merc could customize a suit with a few basic items or try out weapons that are different. No pre-battle squads, only squads made on the war barge would be allowed and only free LAVs. Mercs can squad up in the war barge but are dropped from the squad at the end.
0.8 sec stat would be around eight. Advanced weapons starts around meta five the modules and suits start around three. Mercs with low skill would know that they were going to up against similar types of suits and weapons. As an added bonus the choices made in fittings and SP would create a wider diversity of suit fit on the battle field because to try out a more advanced item we would have to sacrifice something. I may have an advanced suit with an extra slot that I can only put militia mods into but the guy in the militia suit caring an advanced AR might get me first. War barge squads that last out of battle but no pre battle squads. All militia vehicles and militia mods.
0.7 sec stat would be about 20. With the advanced suit meta at four, weapon at seven and modules at three I think 20 would be a good number. Using eight slots for the standard suit minus the 11 meta points for suit and weapon we could fit nine more meta points to the suit. That is only three advanced mods or nine basic adding to the weight of choices. Prototype gear should start to show up but it would limit module and weapon choices so even lower tier suits that with proper fits and well placed SP would do well. Pre- battle squads allowed and all advanced vehicles and mods.
0.6 sec stat would be 32. Porto suits have a meta number of seven, weapons are eight and modules are four. Suit and weapons at prototype levels would be 15 leaving 17 points to fit 10 modules. 10 proto modules at 4 points each is 40 so there would not be enough points to go around. Again sacrifices would have to be made and choices of fits and SP would have influences. All vehicles allowed.
0.5 sec stat would be 64 and allow more high tier items and better fittings but still keep total proto pub stomps. This last area would be the final stepping stone to anything goes. All of these battles would have standard payout and slavage. These battles are for players of different SP and personal skill and I tried to scale them so they would become progressively harder and pay out differently because of the the gear players use.
Low Sec battles would allow any fit and pay out better. Six man pre-battle squads allowed and all vehicle types. Aur weapon drops. All battle types.
FW battles would be set up like EVE with size of the plex influencing the type of planetary battle. The novice site creating 0.8 battles, small creating 0.7, medium creating 0.6 and large creating 0.5. These battles would payout better ISK than normal battles and drop officer gear. These battles are again segregated to allow players of different skill levels to play at the level they are at and experiment with new gear and fits.
Null battles are the final type and are totally random on the type of battle selected. These battles would also allow a full war barge team stack. After selecting a battle the merc would have a few minutes to invite as many people as they wanted on their team up to the max. They would not know who is on the other team or what type of battle they would be fighting. Regular, Aur and officer weapon drops with the best pay.
These are my ideas for the battle finder. I did not have the time to go to every suit at every tier on every frame size so some numbers will need to be adjusted and talked about. My goal was to have a system similar to EVE that encourages players to move to progressively harder battles in search of ISK and specialize in a role. Separating the battles based on a total meta number ensures that the levels of dropsuits will be similar enough to allow for experimentation.
Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1178
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Posted - 2013.11.08 13:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Suggetions are welcome and with the change to FW I should probably change it
Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1187
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
At least someone responded. It is either a system similar to this or keep letting pub stomps happen.
Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1187
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Screw you logic!
Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1191
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Posted - 2013.11.09 04:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Smooth Assassin wrote:You think no one looked at you're long thread cos it was long?
I figured most wouldn't read it because of the length.
Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1192
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Posted - 2013.11.09 14:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah that is the downside. I don't think it would cause much more QQ than the current system. Something similar was in the first closed beta but they removed it. If I remember correctly they were separated into proto/advance/standard but it wasn't enforced, a proto player could get into a standard game if they chose to go there. I would love to see the same type of system but enforced. We need something that helps with the total stomps that happen.
We can't separate people by SP or WP because those numbers don't reflect player skill or the type of gear a player uses. Just like using KDR wouldn't work because full time logis generally have lower KDRs and HAV pilots have higher KDR. Something needs to be done because it is getting worse and players don't have a way to choose. Sandboxes need choices.
Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1192
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Posted - 2013.11.09 14:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lazy Scumbag wrote:Online population makes it nearly impossible to fill a match, but who says we need to? The matchmaking system should adjust team volume. That would be more fun. Example: proto stomping squad searches for a match and in response the matchmaker donates some of their remaining team slots to the other team.
26 players fresh out of the academy versus 6 protos would be fun to watch (worst case scenario) But the match volume stays the same.
I have suggested lop sided matches like that but again KDR, SP and WP don't reflect skill. I have some proto gear but I am bad at this game so would I be on the proto side or the noob side? Also player skill has more to do with the game than people think, I would have a full proto suit with all the trimmings if I hadn't spread all my SP around but that doesn't make me good. A good player will be good no matter the gear just like I am bad no matter what I use.
Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
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The Robot Devil
molon labe.
Public Disorder.
1507
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Posted - 2014.01.12 16:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bump
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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The Robot Devil
molon labe.
Public Disorder.
1510
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Posted - 2014.01.12 20:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
There is no other way for a players with low skills to be able fight others in thier skill range or gear level. I think it is the best answer to the problems. Some fights are not going to be full and some areas may not even have enough players to generate a battle. If that is the case then the merc either nerfs to move up in security status to find a fight in low level gear or step up and try a harder battle.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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The Robot Devil
molon labe.
Public Disorder.
1549
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Posted - 2014.01.14 02:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
They are free to run all the prototype gear they want as long as it fits into the total meta of the battle and all of the SP they have invested still helps, even if they are in 1.0 battles. I think that the good players are good and will do well in any suit they use, it gives the battlefields some more variaty, foucuses the battle more on skill, fit, and teamwork, prevents protostomping and allows players a chance to progress at their own pace.
The down sides are the limited player numbers, players who are unwillling to spend the time to figure out the best fits for what sec stat, empty and lop sided battles and increases the chances of a group boosting each other. The limited numbers I don't have an answer for. Players who are unwilling to change their fir or switch to lower tier items can fight the same people over and over in lower sec battles because that is really what we are doing now. Empty and lop sided battles are going to happen but if you don't like it then move up or down in sec status. Boosting is an expolit and should be reported and the parties involved punished, it happens now but my system would make it easier.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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The Robot Devil
molon labe.
Public Disorder.
1549
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Posted - 2014.01.14 02:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maciej Szambelan wrote:Very well, but the doors shouldn't be closed forever for mixed experienced players, there should still be an option for everybody to play on the same battlefield..
There is,
Low Sec battles would allow any fit and pay out better. Six man pre-battle squads allowed and all vehicle types. Aur weapon drops. All battle types.
Null battles are the final type and are totally random on the type of battle selected. These battles would also allow a full war barge team stack. After selecting a battle the merc would have a few minutes to invite as many people as they wanted on their team up to the max. They would not know who is on the other team or what type of battle they would be fighting. Regular, Aur and officer weapon drops with the best pay.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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The Robot Devil
molon labe.
Public Disorder.
1550
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Posted - 2014.01.14 04:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
deepfried salad gilliam wrote:no, you put to much faith in the community.
alot of people would max out core skills to go kd/r padding in 1.0
to many divisions for small player base
i dont agree on gear limitations anyway
They can go do that but it won't be with gear that blows them out of the water. It will take skill but there is no other way to do it. Without something similar we will never be able to get rid of protostomping. I am not for restrictions either but if we can't choose where to go then it is not fair. When I say fair I mean like a high school baseball team against the NY Yankees kind of not fair. It shouldn't be fair across the board but new player, low skill players and scrubs like me need a place to go where we can at least compete.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1820
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Posted - 2014.03.05 03:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Great idea. Let's create a system where all the games top players are able to deliberately enter game modes where all the newest players are forced to enter. That would be very balanced
At least they would be in Starter fits. Now it is proto against noobs and we all complain, can't be much worse.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1821
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Posted - 2014.03.05 05:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Like this.
But, why not set it to Select 3/5 Fits to take to battle, add total meta, average the meta, select Security status player is matched to.
Might make people just Having a crapton of fits, so people cant just have a Scout fit, and a heavy fit, and a sniper fit, and a AV fit, and a Shotty fit, and a Med Frame fit, and a Logi fit.... and so on.
I am up for anything that allows us to choose what level we want to play at. Like acceleration gates in EVE restrict ships from entering a room these battles would restrict total meta. I was hoping that using a total meta number would allow for more unique fits in higher sec battles. You can put prototype weapons on your suit in a 0.7 system but not much more and with an extra screen like the fitting picture would allow us to see what item we could change to allow us in a certain battle.
It looks cumbersome but I don't know any other way that sec stat would be relevant. We need a carebear place just like we need a leet place to go. Again, it caters to the feeling of a sandbox and that choices matter. All skill levels would have a place, yes vets with more SP will have better basic gear than noobs but there is no other way to reward vets for being here yet protect new players from us.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1821
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Posted - 2014.03.05 05:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Like this.
But, why not set it to Select 3/5 Fits to take to battle, add total meta, average the meta, select Security status player is matched to.
Might make people just Having a crapton of fits, so people cant just have a Scout fit, and a heavy fit, and a sniper fit, and a AV fit, and a Shotty fit, and a Med Frame fit, and a Logi fit.... and so on.
Maybe they could add folders that allow us to separate fits however we like and those folders could hold our suits for different sec stat. Also, I think once a merc found their level that they enjoy they wouldn't probably have many fits that fell outside the meta.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1822
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Posted - 2014.03.05 11:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
I can't let the dev blogs about weapons suck up all the glory so I though I would bump mine.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1835
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:There is no other way for a players with low skills to be able fight others in thier skill range or gear level. I think it is the best answer to the problems. Some fights are not going to be full and some areas may not even have enough players to generate a battle. If that is the case then the merc either nerfs to move up in security status to find a fight in low level gear or step up and try a harder battle. I just don't see your system producing any different results. Due to the skill levels of older player being higher it makes sense they would obliterate a new player. This isn't Barney and Friends the Singalong this is Dust 514, MMOishFPS which in my mind means having a number of choices other than what we have. I really don't think having empty areas would be a problem if CCP made the map system from eve work in dust or Eve players able to see dust players in space and on the ground. The map giving useful if dated intel would provide a way to find and hunt kill mercs. Just like what is used in Eve for planning a roam it would carry over to Dust. Giving statistics that are updated every 30 mins for all sorts of stuff such as average mercs on district etc. This allows a merc to look at the map and plan a route travelling amongst the districts to try and find a group running missions or doing exploration. Another thing to consider, if the agent for the missions were on the planet at a district office of some sort there would be a standard distance of 0-5 districts jumps max that a mission would need you to move through and kill NPCs in to complete a mission, what a beautiful thing to know, time to set some ambushes. These High-Sec, Low-Sec, and Null-Sec mission hubs would most definitely have the precedence from Eve to set some boundaries as to what you can use based on Eve game mechanics if it's a direct port of missions into the game BUT even High-sec mission runners can use T2 (our protogear) in LV4 or LV5 missions. There is no logical reason in my mind to restrain people from bringing any type of gear to any of the matches we have currently. Do you see an I-Win button tag on any of the suits or vehicles that we currently have? Its not like we have the Eve Universe's penile extension ships called TITANs such as the Erebus or Avatar mirrored in any of our vehicles or suits, TLDR no need for an exclusion of suits, vehicles or vessels of any kind from any of the PUB matches we have.
The win button is prototype against fresh out noobs. Prototype gear isn't prohibited in any but the highest few sec stats (1.0-0.8) because with a total meta a merc could fit a prototype weapon on a suit but they would have to sacrifice something to get that weapon into that district. It is more about giving us choices and making us choose our fits than trying to protect people. Random battles don't make us feel like we are in control and don't add to the sandbox we were promised, in fact is restricts us more because there are people we will never fight because of the matchmaking algorithm.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1838
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:There is no other way for a players with low skills to be able fight others in thier skill range or gear level. I think it is the best answer to the problems. Some fights are not going to be full and some areas may not even have enough players to generate a battle. If that is the case then the merc either nerfs to move up in security status to find a fight in low level gear or step up and try a harder battle. I just don't see your system producing any different results. Due to the skill levels of older player being higher it makes sense they would obliterate a new player. This isn't Barney and Friends the Singalong this is Dust 514, MMOishFPS which in my mind means having a number of choices other than what we have. I really don't think having empty areas would be a problem if CCP made the map system from eve work in dust or Eve players able to see dust players in space and on the ground. The map giving useful if dated intel would provide a way to find and hunt kill mercs. Just like what is used in Eve for planning a roam it would carry over to Dust. Giving statistics that are updated every 30 mins for all sorts of stuff such as average mercs on district etc. This allows a merc to look at the map and plan a route travelling amongst the districts to try and find a group running missions or doing exploration. Another thing to consider, if the agent for the missions were on the planet at a district office of some sort there would be a standard distance of 0-5 districts jumps max that a mission would need you to move through and kill NPCs in to complete a mission, what a beautiful thing to know, time to set some ambushes. These High-Sec, Low-Sec, and Null-Sec mission hubs would most definitely have the precedence from Eve to set some boundaries as to what you can use based on Eve game mechanics if it's a direct port of missions into the game BUT even High-sec mission runners can use T2 (our protogear) in LV4 or LV5 missions. There is no logical reason in my mind to restrain people from bringing any type of gear to any of the matches we have currently. Do you see an I-Win button tag on any of the suits or vehicles that we currently have? Its not like we have the Eve Universe's penile extension ships called TITANs such as the Erebus or Avatar mirrored in any of our vehicles or suits, TLDR no need for an exclusion of suits, vehicles or vessels of any kind from any of the PUB matches we have. The win button is prototype against fresh out noobs. Prototype gear isn't prohibited in any but the highest few sec stats (1.0-0.8) because with a total meta a merc could fit a prototype weapon on a suit but they would have to sacrifice something to get that weapon into that district. It is more about giving us choices and making us choose our fits than trying to protect people. Random battles don't make us feel like we are in control and don't add to the sandbox we were promised, in fact is restricts us more because there are people we will never fight because of the matchmaking algorithm. The I win button I refer to is the UNKILLABLE. In Eve the Titans cannot be killed by a Sub-Capital, it just can't happen. We have no such items in dust. Edit: Even day one noobs can kill proto suits if they focus fire.
I can go with that. We have to give some on how players interact. As it is now we have very limited choices. In EVE I can fly to a 0.7 system to get away from PVP, I can go to low to get away from bubbles and bombs. We need choices that allow us to pick out fights because all we have now is a button to push and crossed fingers
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1842
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Posted - 2014.03.05 20:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:
In Eve I can PVP in 1.0 space, I just need to trick the other guy into messing up and accepting a duel...I can go to low and harrass FW pilots without needing to join FW, stealing their faction fits off their wrecks, in null I can go SB the crap out of large fleet engagements and get kill mails on both sides without joining either...in dust I can pub or more pub or PC if there is someone wanting to fight but that doesn't mean we have choices.
All of these things are true but you chose what to do and where to go. In DUST we press a button and we're in battle and if don't like it we press another and we're out. I think the good out ways the bad because it would be more like EVE in that we could go searching for a good fight by hopping around in different security space or if we want to test out and idea we can do it in a more controlled environment.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1865
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hansei Kaizen wrote:
What could be a further refinement on the idea of making battles gear-dependant
I have thought about that also and I think the hard part is justifying why only a certain suit is allowed. Part of the problem is that we have to have a "reason" because of lore. I don't do RP but the battles have to be setup in a way that allows RPers to do their thing while I do mine even though we are doing the exact same thing at the place and time.
The way I was thinking is like to your idea. Take a medium socket that a merc can't leave and have a faction or whatever issue a contract that only allows a light frame in because of atmospheric conditions messing with ULinks or exactly like you said and just offer a game mode where scouts are paid more for entering. Another way of doing it would be to give the desired item to the merc before they enter the battle for "Testing Purposes".
If they wanted a medium frame only map have the four races offer free standard medium suits to each merc that joins the battle, it comes prefit like a starter and we can add our own mods but you can only use that suit or another medium suit of the same tier, a standard payout regardless of how well you do if you wear the suit they provide and a slightly reduced payout like we have now if you provide your own.
The modes need to fall in line with lore, be fun and offer something that players want to play but isn't a total gimmick. They need to be playable by any skill level but offer something to higher SP players as well but all of these are for another thread. I just want the player choices to matter more. If a player gets totally stomped I want the player to be able to step back and say why did we lose? And then be able to do something about it. If I get stomped on in 0.7 systems then maybe I should move up to a 0.8 but my choice should at least feel like it mattered.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1870
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Posted - 2014.03.06 13:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
I know this isn't EVE.
In EVE I can fly through five systems in low or null and not see a sole, it is part of the experience of being in space. Maybe we should have to go looking for a fight. If it is ever going to be a sandbox then we need to be able to move around to different systems. My idea only goes to the sec stat level not the system level. Can't find a fight in a 0.6 then move up to 0.7 or down to 0.5.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1876
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Posted - 2014.03.07 05:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gan
I like it. Adjusting the numbers is something for a pro not me. I would like to try to stay away from a system that only allows one tier in a certain area. I would hope giving up a module to be able to fit a better weapon would be an option.
Player numbers is a problem but so is the endless stomping in proto suits. Core skills will make the higher SP player better in an area that somehow restricts fits but that is the price of greatness and I don't see anyway around it.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2470
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Posted - 2014.04.19 09:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
bump
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2472
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Posted - 2014.04.19 10:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
I understand that my numbers aren't correct and probably need some tweaking but the idea is what matters and I think it would make a difference in the NPE and retention.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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