|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
641
   |
Posted - 2014.03.06 22:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
I like it. This should be in my opinion, an optional game mode, rather than a fix to match making. Something for those looking to play on even grounds.
Let's go into some details.
Ok, one suggestion, too many tiers of difficulty. Break it down into
High Sec
Low Sec
Null Sec
In this way, it's very easy to follow the current tier level of gear.
High Sec - MLT/STD gear
Low Sec - ADV gear
Null Sec - Proto Gear
Using 'Meta level' is a good way to go about it. But let's take a heavy for example. Having fewer slots all around, their total meta would always be less than say a logi with proto mods. So it would be very possible for a proto heavy to get into a match geared for ADV. That's ok though, because the actual suit's meta could be raised to compensate for the lack of slots.
So looking at slot counts
Assault
STD - 8 ADV - 9 PRO - 11
Logi
STD - 9 ADV - 10 PRO - 14
Scout
STD - 7 ADV - 8 PRO - 9
Heavy
STD - 6 ADV - 7 PRO - 8
Commando
STD - 3 ADV - 5 PRO - 6
(amar have one less slot)
So since my logi has the highest total slot count (meaning highest possible combined meta) I would adjust each suits meta to match that of the logi.
Now to find our magic number, we can assume each tier of gear as such.
MLT - Level 0
STD - Level 1
ADV - Level 3
PRO - Level 5
So each STD mod would be assigned a level value of one. Looking at our logi it has a combined meta with STD gear of 9 plus the suit, which would be 1 in this case. So a total meta of 10 would the highest achievable at STD level. So these would be the max meta allowed per game mode
STD - 10 - High Sec
ADV - 13 - Low Sec
PRO - 19 - Null Sec
So for a commando to work right, it's suit value would need to be
STD - 7
ADV - 8
PRO - 13
Then doing the same for each of the other suits.
Now after looking at all of this, I would suggest making a new value just for this new gamemode to be tagged onto modules and suit. Rather than using the meta value. Meta value is there for a reason though what that is, I'm really not sure.
So our matchmaking would look like this
Level
0 - 10 High Sec
11 + Low Sec
19 + Null Sec
There are though numerous issues that come to mind, like how to implement this in game. I would imagine that if you had a fit with a higher than allowed meta, that fit becomes greyed out to ya in game.
I have a feeling that one type in particular would become popular, making for long que times for some. I imagine the MLT/STD mode would be the most popular, with the ADV running close behind. Proto I imagine would be very quiet, with ungodly que times. So that would be an issue, but I think significantly increasing pay on the higher levels (Enough to cover the costs of losing several proto suits) would help make this a very popular mode.
Thing is, people LOVE a fair game. We have all had those matches that were tick for tick, neck to neck. Where you do a fair share of dying, in addition to a fair share of killing. Might separate the playerbase BUT THIS IS A GOOD THING. This is what matchmaking needs, a fair fight.
I'm so sick of every match turning into a waiting game. Sure I could push the point, but what is the good when I'm one of 4 or 5 others doing the same, running into the wall that is proto. Or when yr on the side doing the stomping, GL finding a kill. Boring.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
641
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 23:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:There is no other way for a players with low skills to be able fight others in thier skill range or gear level. I think it is the best answer to the problems. Some fights are not going to be full and some areas may not even have enough players to generate a battle. If that is the case then the merc either nerfs to move up in security status to find a fight in low level gear or step up and try a harder battle. I just don't see your system producing any different results. Due to the skill levels of older player being higher it makes sense they would obliterate a new player. This isn't Barney and Friends the Singalong this is Dust 514, MMOishFPS which in my mind means having a number of choices other than what we have. I really don't think having empty areas would be a problem if CCP made the map system from eve work in dust or Eve players able to see dust players in space and on the ground. The map giving useful if dated intel would provide a way to find and hunt kill mercs. Just like what is used in Eve for planning a roam it would carry over to Dust. Giving statistics that are updated every 30 mins for all sorts of stuff such as average mercs on district etc. This allows a merc to look at the map and plan a route travelling amongst the districts to try and find a group running missions or doing exploration. Another thing to consider, if the agent for the missions were on the planet at a district office of some sort there would be a standard distance of 0-5 districts jumps max that a mission would need you to move through and kill NPCs in to complete a mission, what a beautiful thing to know, time to set some ambushes. These High-Sec, Low-Sec, and Null-Sec mission hubs would most definitely have the precedence from Eve to set some boundaries as to what you can use based on Eve game mechanics if it's a direct port of missions into the game BUT even High-sec mission runners can use T2 (our protogear) in LV4 or LV5 missions. There is no logical reason in my mind to restrain people from bringing any type of gear to any of the matches we have currently. Do you see an I-Win button tag on any of the suits or vehicles that we currently have? Its not like we have the Eve Universe's penile extension ships called TITANs such as the Erebus or Avatar mirrored in any of our vehicles or suits, TLDR no need for an exclusion of suits, vehicles or vessels of any kind from any of the PUB matches we have.
You are making a very specific comparison between dust and eve, while failing to address the differences between the two.
EVE, while set in the same universe ( Server) as Dust 514, are completely DIFFERENT games. You really think noobs NEED to get stomped by proto gear, because that's how it works in EVE?
In EVE, you have this thing called SPACE, and a **** TON of it. Not to mention, the law to protect, concord. EVE to noobs is like a nice massage.
While Dust to noobs is like a brutal thrashing. And to top things off, there is nothing to do but get thrashed. Why is this even appealing?
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
642
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 14:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Gan
I like it. Adjusting the numbers is something for a pro not me. I would like to try to stay away from a system that only allows one tier in a certain area. I would hope giving up a module to be able to fit a better weapon would be an option.
Player numbers is a problem but so is the endless stomping in proto suits. Core skills will make the higher SP player better in an area that somehow restricts fits but that is the price of greatness and I don't see anyway around it.
About the being restricted to tiers, I was thinking the same thing. Allowing for some overlap in the overall allowed meta would let a player to mix gear at different tiers. But that got me thinking about something else, why would you not want to mix tiers of gear. I know why I would, as it's beneficial to a noob in it's learning. At the same time, with core skills, a SP invested player can fit much easier than a noob.
But I have another idea that goes along with this one. (no doubt I will be making a separate post about it as well when I get time)
This is a very competitive game. At least when Proto is matched against Proto. So I would assume that matching STD to STD and ADV to ADV would make for very competitive games as well. But by doing so you split a small player base, increasing que times. Which I'm afraid is unavoidable at this point if you want an influx of new players to stick around. New players need a way to actually BE competitive, so that they will stick around.
My main idea are Leagues. I've got Starcraft 2 on the brain with this one. There will be 2 modes of play, one a "RANKED" match the other Unranked or freeplay.
Ranked matches
RANKED matches are your try hard matches, where you fight for standings within a certain time period. Results would be glorified and posted on the forums for all to see.
I would also put an emphasis on squad play, where you can register a squad to compete within a given league. While you will have solo stats tracked, squad stats are tracked separately for the league. When you register a squad, you register a roster of players to compete, as well as creating a Squad name to be used on the leaderboards. A roster let's say can consist of 8 players.
You have 3 tiers to compete in, each with varying risks, but greater rewards as you risk more. In each tier you are limited in your allowed fits based on meta total (or another number assigned for this purpose).
Unranked Matches
Matches where tiers are irrelevant. Just like our current "Pubs" system, no limitations or restrictions.
A few issues that come to mind, vehicles. How can they be worked into this kind of system?
But with anything competitive, you need some sort of structure, to create that competitive environment. Our current system isn't it. Currently, it glorifies the "Stomp". While core skills will make a difference within match tiers, that difference is hardly as huge as the same with core skills AND proto gear.
TL;DR
Break matches into ranked and unranked. Ranked matches consist of different tiers, MLT/STD, ADV, PRO. Tournament style matches, competing for the top spot within a given time frame.
While you can go for ranked solo, going with a squad will be where the glory is at. Squads register, creating a squad name (for the leader board) and a roster of allowed squad members. Then you go and compete for the top spot!
Unranked are basically the way our system works with Pubs now.
This is a positive change, not just for noobs, but vets as well. Giving noobs somewhere to compete, and actually allowing vet's some competition(rather than the stompin).
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
646
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 21:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hansei Kaizen wrote:Hey guys. Great development on the topic here. Love to read the thread (subscription tease).
Just had a complementive idea, a different way of adressing the same problem, if you will. What about if the public contracts display their overall ISK payout? Would'nt this deliver a "low governance" solution, fitting for a competetive environment?
Just a crude thought experiment here, feel free to adjust the payout increase as you will:
High sec pub contract: Overall Payout 500.000 ISK
Low sec pub contract: Overall Payout 3.000.000 ISK
Null sec pub contract: Overall Payout 10.000.000 ISK
Like already established in game the payout would be individually modified for each participant, via WP, time in battle, etc. Well there are no formulas around, so I can't go into any detail there.
So the participation is only regulated by the amount of ISK in the Pot (no Meta required). The bigger the Pot, the more serious the competition gets (reflected in maybe using the best gear available?). So Null sec would naturally attract the tryhardy players with high ambitions. High sec would be somewhat unattractive for them (no risk, no profits, no fun). There would be just not so much to get as elsewhere. And clever Players that can make a difference with mediocre gear have a great potential profit margin, while the Newbs would have a low profit, low investment area to get their skills up to par.
Still the choice would be yours, you even could get lucky in low sec. If there are no high SP players around, you could strike a great deal as a newb too.
Feel free to comment on this Idea / tear it apart and do it terrible violence in a dark corner ... I would be honored
Hmm, I like the idea. No physical restrictions, you can run whatever you want, yet running a high sec in proto isn't cost efficient. Well, if you don't die it is.
BUT, what's to stop a player from running standard gear in high sec, raking in the money with minimal losses. Then taking those winnings and playing proto in high sec.
Why would you even want to play in high sec, when you could run cheap fits in null sec and rake in the money. I see null sec being the most popular and played. But of course, I could be wrong. Just making assumptions of player actions that I can't know for sure.
Now, if the most of the payout went to the winner, with the losers netting a very small sum (like 50k), there would be a push to run more proto. But, at the same time proto is VERY expensive, so losing a battle means loosing a lot for a little. So running proto in high sec would be somewhat attractive.
What do you think eh?
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
659
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 13:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hansei Kaizen wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:
Hmm, I like the idea. No physical restrictions, you can run whatever you want, yet running a high sec in proto isn't cost efficient. Well, if you don't die it is.
BUT, what's to stop a player from running standard gear in high sec, raking in the money with minimal losses. Then taking those winnings and playing proto in high sec.
Why would you even want to play in high sec, when you could run cheap fits in null sec and rake in the money. I see null sec being the most popular and played. But of course, I could be wrong. Just making assumptions of player actions that I can't know for sure.
Now, if the most of the payout went to the winner, with the losers netting a very small sum (like 50k), there would be a push to run more proto. But, at the same time proto is VERY expensive, so losing a battle means loosing a lot for a little. So running proto in high sec would be somewhat attractive.
What do you think eh?
Yes that could be a problem. I thought the payout would need to be very small in high sec relative to null sec. That could, like you say, make high sec a pretty unpopular gamemode. Which would be great by me. It's an extended academy with less security (possible proto users), after all. Your second point is interesting. What would discourage the use of proto gear in high sec / encourage the use in null sec other than the sheer amount of the Payout, but still ISK-related? Maybe the Payout-Curve has to be even steeper, so that, if you are able to run proto, its very unattractive for you to even consider high sec matches. High sec: 10 000 ISK maximal individual Payout (militia Bpos costeffective) Low sec: 100 000 ISK maximal individual Payout (basic gear costeffective. Advanced gear eventually) Null sec: 1 000 000 ISK maximal individual Payout (proto gear costeffective, eventually) Plus the amount within the team has a steeper falloff, the lower you score (in null sec). So you really want to make a difference WP wise: Finished 1st: 1000k ISK Finished 2nd: 700k ISK ... Finished 16th: 10k ISK In high sec the falloff would be much softer, with the last one earning about 75% of the top player. What do you think of that?
Well, rather than saying "last place" receives less, making payouts more dependent on WP totals in null sec, as opposed to high sec that sees a more even distribution of the wealth among those that get low WP.
I think a good way to go about this is determine a rough number of suits you allow to lose per game in relation to pay out. So say a high sec win will net you about 10 standard suits, the low sec nets you enough to cover 10 ADV suits and so on. In this way, while you can easily run proto at the lower levels, payouts remain so unattractive, it's simply not worth bothering.
So yeah, it would make high sec very sparse, but that being a good thing. Low sec would be one of the more popular ones, with a greater mix of adv gear and proto. Null sec having greater payout dependent on WP, or contribution than anything. But still, the Null sec area I see still being a very popular place because of the payout.
It's not hard to gain WP in any given match, whether you are up against proto players or standard players. So no doubt null sec would be full of STD gear. When you give the option for large payouts, people will use the most cost efficient method available. That being running cheap gear, racking up WP, and making huge profit margins per game.
But at the very least, newer people to the game would have a place to go to feel useful. So either way it would work out in favor of the most neglected (and non existent) part of the player base. The new bros. I think that's the most important thing, more players means better matchmaking!
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
|
|
| |
|