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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
752
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Posted - 2013.11.08 18:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Atiim wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:I'll take a Caldari Jail bird, I've heard the Civire females take it up the ass. Perverted scum like you don't deserve eternal life Yes, yes they do, they deserve an eternal life of torment and agony. That's the first thing I tell my new 'playmates' when as soon as I remove their hoods. I've been a very naughty boy ;)
How dare you insult my people in such an informal, primitive, and perverted matter.
The sheer thought of your torment towards Caldari women sickens me.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
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VAHZZ
The dyst0pian Corporation
70
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Posted - 2013.11.08 19:16:00 -
[122] - Quote
Ok, not slave drivers but war criminals..my point still stands...the Amarr have done far worse, i never said i agreed upon which my people have done in the past..since it was not civilized, but i will not push away facts.
> Master of the Sniper
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."
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Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
831
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Posted - 2013.11.08 19:28:00 -
[123] - Quote
As a Gallente moderate I sympathize with the plight of the Caldari people, our differing philosophies are not worth the bloodshed, but almost every major action taken against the Caldari was done as a response to an extreme Caldari action. Countless time through history the Gallente have wanted nothing more than peace and has been dragged into war by ultra nationalistic forces of the Caldari like the Templis Dragonaurs. The federation even offered countless funds to help the State economically, and has always treated Caldari in their borders with more respect than their counterparts. I have no problem with handing the Caldari back their homeworld either but not if it's done by Caldari terrorists like Tibus Heth, and it leads to the oppression of the Gallente inhabitants. Those in the state who call for peace will always be my friends. Those that choose to butcher innocent Gallente civilians and call for the genocide of my people will never have a place at my negotiation table.
If you follow these madmen I won't hesitate to retaliate with force.
If the actions in these camps are true then I call for immediate justice to be done to the perpetrators, but until this can be proven I think there should be an independent investigation by CONCORD.
The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war.
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Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
70
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:23:00 -
[124] - Quote
To remain on point this is a Gallente & Caldari subject, not Amarr & Minmitar theirs other posts for that. Right now everytime I see a Amarr or Minmitar spoken in this post I think this (Gallente: HEY LOOK WHAT'S THAT IN THE SKY!? IS IT A AMARR SHIP? YOU KNOW HOW 'BAD' THEY ARE!!! - Everyone: OMG WHERE!? - Gallente (Now while they're distracted I'll make my escape, HA HA suckers works everytime....).) is what keeps playing in my mind currently. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9993
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:30:00 -
[125] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:True Adamance wrote:Just read the Caldari POW description
"Caldari Prisoners of War
Caldari Prisoners of War All of these Caldari P.O.Ws show the signs of appalling treatment over an extended period of time. Even the most well-off are still suffering from starvation and serious malnourishment. The worst of them are barely alive after enduring sleep deprivation, physical abuse and other more excessive forms of torture. The women in particular, have not fared well under their Gallente jail masters, who have remorselessly taken whatever they desired from their captured prey. "
Man that really makes me want to kill some FDU scum, vile, and depraved monsters. There is no such thing as prisoners of war anymore... They just die and clone spawn back to base.
We're like 0.01% of all total fighting forces still.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Plasma Rifle =// Unlocked
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Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
70
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:30:00 -
[126] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Denak Kalamari wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Let me use a common phrase used often by you to cover up Amarr atrocities.
"You're judging us through your own cultural/moral viewpoints." Except that these POWs actually existAnd on top of that, where did you get the impression that Amarr slavery is all just brutal and violent abusing? Contrary to popular belief, the Amarr are actually quite nice to their slaves, and have laws that regulate how you can treat them. I may not agree on why they do slavery, but they are not brutal slavers unlike everyone here thinks. Since you believe everything you are told, I am Jovian. Seriously though, those laws are only on the books for show. If you haven't personally experienced the horrors of slavery, I'd recommend you not lecture us about it or try to tell me and my brethren and how the Amarr treat us.
So you denouce the lore as false this sounds similar to that 1 Gallentean saying "Don't believe everything you read." problem is he researched & got the evidence also since you haven't researched the lore & facts nor as perhaps being a new generation Minmitar says you yourself may not have experienced it yourself so how do you know if they were good or bad?
It depends on the person some could be good some could be bad. But the fact is if the bad are caught mistreating the servants can be punished VERY harshly.... If you researched it, you would know what punishments can & have been done. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
70
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:34:00 -
[127] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:Just like an Amarrian to blame someone for something that they themselves have done. Is it not true that the Amarrians have done unspeakable evil towards the Minmatars? enslaving them and treating them as nothing but curs?...calling them scum and hunting them as game?....Caldari's are greedy little savages that would sell their own for a pack of gum and a taco. We Gallente are logical and moral, while you go inquisiting in the name of your empress and slaughtering Minmaters in the name of progress and blind ambition.
Research a little especially about Empress Jamyl the great good deed she's done for all the race's (She's also the current Empress I believe if that is true it destroys your arguements even more) & don't get hypocritical because your throwing the subject off course yourself & True himself said as well as I if you want to discuss Amarr & Minmitar theirs a post for that but this 1 is about The Gallente & Caldari |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
70
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Posted - 2013.11.08 20:37:00 -
[128] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:Ok, not slave drivers but war criminals..my point still stands...the Amarr have done far worse, i never said i agreed upon which my people have done in the past..since it was not civilized, but i will not push away facts.
The Amarr also has done great good & aren't all bad is my only arguement if they're the most "bad" race I would disagree & say all of the race's are good & bad but none are primarily evil nor bad in my research. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4023
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:27:00 -
[129] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Let me use a common phrase used often by you to cover up Amarr atrocities.
"You're judging us through your own cultural/moral viewpoints." Except that these POWs actually existAnd on top of that, where did you get the impression that Amarr slavery is all just brutal and violent abusing? Contrary to popular belief, the Amarr are actually quite nice to their slaves, and have laws that regulate how you can treat them. I may not agree on why they do slavery, but they are not brutal slavers unlike everyone here thinks.
And one of the reasonable and respectable Intaki/Federal aligned mercenaries presents a sound opinion with knowledge of the subjects at hand.
Thank you Denak, but of course as I have said the was the Amarr treat their slaves, what they have done in the past does not impact how the Gallente are currently treating POWs.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4023
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Posted - 2013.11.08 21:47:00 -
[130] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:Ok, not slave drivers but war criminals..my point still stands...the Amarr have done far worse, i never said i agreed upon which my people have done in the past..since it was not civilized, but i will not push away facts.
But that is precisely my point. With your current argument of "I cannot and wont accept something bad someone has presented with physical (digital) evidence so I will try to denounce my reasonable opponents argument by throwing accusations at him".
Firstly and I will deign to address this now, you say the Amarr have done far worse but you do not specify what. If you mean to imply the slavery that has defined us throughout the ages then you must know that the slaves we take are not taken so the sake of a cheap labour force nor because the Amarr think of the other races as sub human.
We engage in such practices because we believe that subservience and trial will bring a person closer to God. The Amarr themselves were driven from their lands on Athra to the Island of Amarr by the Udorians many millennia ago, while the Gallente and Minmatar sat on paradise worlds and received none of the divine callings we did.
It stems from our belief that when one person is toiling is service to our God, they become closer to him, a part of the larger whole, a cog in the great machine, and in doing this their actions become eternal and far more meaningful.
The practice of slavery is for all intensive purposes a term of indentured labour, all client races are eventually emancipated when they are determined to be ready for the responsibilities of taking up the Immortal Destiny of the Amarr peoples. An example of this are the Ni Kunni who were enslaved before the Minmatar. They were willing to submit to the Faith, they did it meekly, and embraced the cultural tenets of the Amarr and within one generations nearly 95% of their indentured peoples had been made free citizens of the Empire.
If you mean to say that the Amarrian treatment of slaves was and has been callous throughout our time, mainly in the case of the Minmatar, I cannot deny this, prior to the Rebellions our people had not met a race like the Minmatar who were so obstinate in the face of cultural change. In order to pacify the slaves taken, the elders had to be separated from the peoples and rather barbaric tools had to be used to attempt to drive the Matari into subservience as all previously effective tools had failed.
Post Rebellion, in his later years Emperor Heideran came t regret the turn his people had taken and outlawed the mistreatment of slaves under pain of death or slavery itself. Mistreatment is still not fully eradicated from our society, it only perpetuates now because of the way our society works. It take a great many resources, evidence, and time to move against corrupt Holders and nobility.
As for any other concerns that the Amarr are actively committing openly evil acts I will be happy to address them, though I hope my latter statements have helped you to better understand our people. What you perceive as slavery is to us a necessary part of the acceptance of people into the Empire.
Poignantly and with regreted, and in ignoring many of my previous statements, can you personally refute that the Minmatar were once slavers? That they killed their own people and took them as slaves? Do not be so quick to denounce what you do not know.
Will you refute that when Empress Jamyll emancipated the 9th and bove Generation Slaves and Theologically educated servant that the Minmatar did not gather and massacre a gathering their blood kin for remaining faithful to the Amarr Faith?
I am not interested in this tit for tat, admittedly I have started it in this instance, blood for blood is a barbaric and ignorant practice. I prefer what can be done here and now.
Why is there not a single Gallentean that can accept that his people have done this on a massive scale throughout the federation, and be saddened by this poor treatment of humans and the violation of their own cultural tenets.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
117
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Posted - 2013.11.08 22:07:00 -
[131] - Quote
I just can't resist, tl;dr? |
Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
580
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Posted - 2013.11.08 22:08:00 -
[132] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:As a Gallente moderate I sympathize with the plight of the Caldari people, our differing philosophies are not worth the bloodshed, but almost every major action taken against the Caldari was done as a response to an extreme Caldari action. Countless time through history the Gallente have wanted nothing more than peace and has been dragged into war by ultra nationalistic forces of the Caldari like the Templis Dragonaurs. The federation even offered countless funds to help the State economically, and has always treated Caldari in their borders with more respect than their counterparts. I have no problem with handing the Caldari back their homeworld either but not if it's done by Caldari terrorists like Tibus Heth, and it leads to the oppression of the Gallente inhabitants. Those in the state who call for peace will always be my friends. Those that choose to butcher innocent Gallente civilians and call for the genocide of my people will never have a place at my negotiation table.
If you follow these madmen I won't hesitate to retaliate with force.
If the actions in these camps are true then I call for immediate justice to be done to the perpetrators, but until this can be proven I think there should be an independent investigation by CONCORD.
The reason why the Caldari seceded from the Federation in the first place was because they weren't happy with their situation. Gallente said no, and with both sides bickering it eventually escalated into a century long war, where everyone who sympathized or supported the Caldari were exiled for treason. These exiled were mostly Intaki, and from them Mordu's Legion and the Intaki Syndicate were born. Ever since then the relationship between Caldari and Gallente have been reserved at best, and for good reason.
Both sides are at fault here, but you must understand that the Caldari have a completely different culture when compared to the Gallente. They don't want outside help, or any outsider interfering with their State, they just want to be left alone. In the State, racial and cultural purity is of utmost importance, even moreso than the Amarr. If you do not accept the Caldari views and completely adopt to them, you are an outsider and treated as such. You are still allowed to live in Caldari territory as a client to the megacorporations, but they make sure you do not influence their culture in any way, the Achur are a good example of this.
The fact is that the Caldari believe in working for the good of the many is a core belief, rather than the Gallente individualistic and personal gain approach. You want to help the Caldari? Convert or stop interfering, simple as that.
And finally, Tibus Heth was a mistake, and has been declared a terrorist by the CEP. Anything he has done could only be considered as the most extreme view of loyalty to the State, which is completely different from the actual Caldari way.
True Adamance wrote:And one of the reasonable and respectable Intaki/Federal aligned mercenaries presents a sound opinion with knowledge of the subjects at hand.
Thank you Denak, but of course as I have said the was the Amarr treat their slaves, what they have done in the past does not impact how the Gallente are currently treating POWs. I was simply clearing up false information, I can't stand ignorant people spouting out things they have no clue about.
Speaking of which, I'm still not Gallente or Federal aligned. Get it right.
Grahisha of the ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1458
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Posted - 2013.11.08 22:13:00 -
[133] - Quote
I guess the jailers had the freedom to do as they please.
Heh, and they think we are the bad guys.
You guys started a war over frontier defenses.
And WE'RE the bad guys?
Lawl
For the State!
For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4024
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Posted - 2013.11.08 22:14:00 -
[134] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:True Adamance wrote:And one of the reasonable and respectable Intaki/Federal aligned mercenaries presents a sound opinion with knowledge of the subjects at hand.
Thank you Denak, but of course as I have said the was the Amarr treat their slaves, what they have done in the past does not impact how the Gallente are currently treating POWs. I was simply clearing up false information, I can't stand ignorant people spouting out things they have no clue about. Speaking of which, I'm still not Gallente or Federal aligned. Get it right.
My apologies, seems that the Gallente have one less rational and intelligent individual amongst their ranks.
I also cannot stand the ignorance of the Gallenteans, they show utter disregard for factual evidence, reasoned arguments and a self centred system of thoughts and values that will never allow them to push their views to all of mankind.
((Note when I state this last point I wish to highlight that the Amarr think everything they re doing is a gift to the other peoples of new eden, don't mistake its meaning))
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
430
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Posted - 2013.11.08 22:43:00 -
[135] - Quote
Everyone is Evil.
The Sinwarden
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4025
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Posted - 2013.11.08 22:52:00 -
[136] - Quote
1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:Everyone is Evil.
The Sinwarden would say that, though the purpose of this thread was to highlight the plight of Caldari POWs under gallentean prison wardens, buzz words like Evil are only present for the effect they have on the people who read them.
The Gallente should know, it is they who are the masters of propaganda.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1078
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:03:00 -
[137] - Quote
Vinsarrow wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Denak Kalamari wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Let me use a common phrase used often by you to cover up Amarr atrocities.
"You're judging us through your own cultural/moral viewpoints." Except that these POWs actually existAnd on top of that, where did you get the impression that Amarr slavery is all just brutal and violent abusing? Contrary to popular belief, the Amarr are actually quite nice to their slaves, and have laws that regulate how you can treat them. I may not agree on why they do slavery, but they are not brutal slavers unlike everyone here thinks. Since you believe everything you are told, I am Jovian. Seriously though, those laws are only on the books for show. If you haven't personally experienced the horrors of slavery, I'd recommend you not lecture us about it or try to tell me and my brethren and how the Amarr treat us. So you denouce the lore as false this sounds similar to that 1 Gallentean saying "Don't believe everything you read." problem is he researched & got the evidence also since you haven't researched the lore & facts nor as perhaps being a new generation Minmitar says you yourself may not have experienced it yourself so how do you know if they were good or bad? It depends on the person some could be good some could be bad. But the fact is if the bad are caught mistreating the servants can be punished VERY harshly.... If you researched it, you would know what punishments can & have been done.
History is written by the victors.
@True
The emancipation is a joke. Releasing those who've been enslaved for 9th generations, likely broken of spirit and will, is nothing more than a slap in the face.
If she truly cared for the plight of the Tribes, she'd free all slaves and gives the Tribes reparations.
No reparations, no peace.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4025
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:16:00 -
[138] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Vinsarrow wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Denak Kalamari wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Let me use a common phrase used often by you to cover up Amarr atrocities.
"You're judging us through your own cultural/moral viewpoints." Except that these POWs actually existAnd on top of that, where did you get the impression that Amarr slavery is all just brutal and violent abusing? Contrary to popular belief, the Amarr are actually quite nice to their slaves, and have laws that regulate how you can treat them. I may not agree on why they do slavery, but they are not brutal slavers unlike everyone here thinks. Since you believe everything you are told, I am Jovian. Seriously though, those laws are only on the books for show. If you haven't personally experienced the horrors of slavery, I'd recommend you not lecture us about it or try to tell me and my brethren and how the Amarr treat us. So you denouce the lore as false this sounds similar to that 1 Gallentean saying "Don't believe everything you read." problem is he researched & got the evidence also since you haven't researched the lore & facts nor as perhaps being a new generation Minmitar says you yourself may not have experienced it yourself so how do you know if they were good or bad? It depends on the person some could be good some could be bad. But the fact is if the bad are caught mistreating the servants can be punished VERY harshly.... If you researched it, you would know what punishments can & have been done. History is written by the victors. @True The emancipation is a joke. Releasing those who've been enslaved for 9th generations, likely broken of spirit and will, is nothing more than a slap in the face. If she truly cared for the plight of the Tribes, she'd free all slaves and gives the Tribes reparations. No reparations, no peace.
Reparations for what? Seeking to uplift your people, to join them with our own, to give you the God we hold so dear? These are all things we have done for you.
In anycase the Matari are not blameless in this as well, millions died in the rebellions, Amarr, Minmatar, and more, our conflict spiralled out of control and more were dragged needlessly into it. As for the 9th generation slaves I see no issue with that, the slaves are not treated unfairly, except by angered Minmatar on their return to republic space, they are given educations, both in the religious nature of the Amarr and in the wider universe around them.
After they are freed they have no obligation to remain faithful, yet many still do, while other simply return to their peoples to live out their lives as normal Matari. It is in our mandates that we free all of those who are ready to receive God's blessings and continue to educate those who are not.
The Empress does of course care for the Minmatar, we see you as our own people in rebellion, but she has her duty to uphold the Empire first and foremost. You do not arm your foes and starve your people do you?
I do not believe reparations are a necessity to making peace, I also wonder what your ideal of reparations are.
Of course you might consider the emancipation a slap in the face, many Matari much more mild in temperament than you, they would be happy to have their children and family members back, however of course many still cannot reconcile themselves with the past and will continue to war.
I have seen very few movements from your governing parties to reconcile our differences. Long my Empress Jamyll Sarum's, and Emperor Heideran's influences guide our actions into the future.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Void Echo
2127
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:22:00 -
[139] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
The Federation does discriminate, these prisoners are examples of the harsh treatment and **** of female prisoners....how do you justify this?
prisoners of war, throughout history everyone tortured their prisoners. im all for humiliation and destruction of my enemy. how do you justify those that still use slavery in your empire?
Closed Beta Vet
Youtube
Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4025
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:25:00 -
[140] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:True Adamance wrote:
The Federation does discriminate, these prisoners are examples of the harsh treatment and **** of female prisoners....how do you justify this?
prisoners of war, throughout history everyone tortured their prisoners. im all for humiliation and destruction of my enemy. how do you justify those that still use slavery in your empire?
Okay now you are slipping into stupid Gallentean.... I have spent this entire thread telling people this is not with regard to the empire. You cannot throw accusations at my people and use that as a cover justifying your vastly different social climate and political structure as a means of justifying and act that goes against all that your people and the Gallenteans here so often say they support.
I am not attacking you from an Imperial Stand point, but instead from the stand point of one who has witnessed these people suffering, seen their scars and been outraged.
Besides that what does Amarrian slavery have to do with Gallenteans mistreating and raping POW's?
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
757
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:32:00 -
[141] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:True Adamance wrote:
The Federation does discriminate, these prisoners are examples of the harsh treatment and **** of female prisoners....how do you justify this?
prisoners of war, throughout history everyone tortured their prisoners. im all for humiliation and destruction of my enemy. how do you justify those that still use slavery in your empire?
True Adamance has clearly stated that he is not saying the Amarr or any other empire is better because of this incident.
Wow you Gallente "Freedom" Fighters are very sadistic. One guy stated that he kidnaps Caldari women and sexually tortures them. And now you say that it is perfectly fine to treat another human being unethically for the simple sake of their humiliation?
Please, you are insulting the small remaining intelligence that is left in New Eden. Please leave.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4025
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:35:00 -
[142] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Void Echo wrote:True Adamance wrote:
The Federation does discriminate, these prisoners are examples of the harsh treatment and **** of female prisoners....how do you justify this?
prisoners of war, throughout history everyone tortured their prisoners. im all for humiliation and destruction of my enemy. how do you justify those that still use slavery in your empire? True Adamance has clearly stated that he is not saying the Amarr or any other empire is better because of this incident. Wow you Gallente "Freedom" Fighters are very sadistic. One guy stated that he kidnaps Caldari women and sexually tortures them. And now you say that it is perfectly fine to treat another human being unethically for the simple sake of their humiliation? Please, you are insulting the small remaining intelligence that is left in New Eden. Please leave.
All I wish is for someone acknowledge the problem and attempt to take it to higher authorities even should it not take to their sensibilities.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
15
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:37:00 -
[143] - Quote
The Caldari would probably do worse to gallente POW's, there is kind of a long standing racial hatred between the two going all the way back to when the caldari state tried to pull out of the gallente federation because it wasn't in their best interests any longer. The federation got upset because the caldari essentially tried to close their doors like imperial Japan. Things got bad for the caldari which led to freedom fighters (arguably the worst bunch among them being the Templis Dragonaurs) which led to the attack on nouvelle rouvenor... Which prompted the gallente into the harshest response - the bombing of caldari prime. Caldari primes bombing led to the sacrifice (and martyrdom) of Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba and his fleet and then the caldari-gallente war was in full swing. In relatively recent history there have been a lot more bad things like the attack on malkalen and the rise to power of Tibus Heth and a whole lot more, but its always important to remember that these guys hate each other.
The caldari hate the gallente because the gallente tried to genocide them. The gallente hate the caldari because they're a 'closed society' and because gallente military doctrine is 'they destroy one of our cities we destroy one of their planets' |
Oswald Rehnquist
492
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:40:00 -
[144] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:As a Gallente moderate I sympathize with the plight of the Caldari people, our differing philosophies are not worth the bloodshed, but almost every major action taken against the Caldari was done as a response to an extreme Caldari action. Countless time through history the Gallente have wanted nothing more than peace and has been dragged into war by ultra nationalistic forces of the Caldari like the Templis Dragonaurs. The federation even offered countless funds to help the State economically, and has always treated Caldari in their borders with more respect than their counterparts. I have no problem with handing the Caldari back their homeworld either but not if it's done by Caldari terrorists like Tibus Heth, and it leads to the oppression of the Gallente inhabitants. Those in the state who call for peace will always be my friends. Those that choose to butcher innocent Gallente civilians and call for the genocide of my people will never have a place at my negotiation table.
If you follow these madmen I won't hesitate to retaliate with force.
If the actions in these camps are true then I call for immediate justice to be done to the perpetrators, but until this can be proven I think there should be an independent investigation by CONCORD.
This is the overt dribble that the Gallente preach to themselves, what it essentially boils down to was that the Gallente wanted to control and skim off of the Caldari.
Lets look at some lore quotes
Quote:It all started when a Gallente exploration ship happened upon one of the hidden Caldari colonies. When the Federation Senate learned of this they demanded a full-scale investigation into the matter and that all hidden Caldari colonies should immediately been put under Federation authority. This was too much for the Caldari Corporations, which were already grumbling over increasing Federation interference into their affairs. For the Caldari it was a simple question of losing their autonomy forever by caving in or making a stand right then and there. They decided to make a stand.
Quote:It soon became obvious that it was a question of when, not if, the Gallenteans would take full control of the planet. The newly formed Caldari government, led by the heads of the Corporations, was far from being in full agreement as to what the correct course of action was. This disagreement, which severely hampered the Caldari State in following a coherent strategy, was only settled after the Morning of Reasoning, when the six most militant Corporations jointly ousted the other CEOGÇÖs from power. The Caldari saw that it was impossible to try to fight the much larger Gallente Federation for control of Caldari Prime. Instead, they started devising a plan to evacuate the Caldari population on the planet.
Quote:After a while the Caldari agenda became clear - they were willing to sign peace if the Federation would return Caldari Prime and acknowledge the newly formed Caldari state. But the Gallenteans couldnGÇÖt agree to these demands for two reasons: one, they were loath to admit a sovereign state into their midst; close to their own home planet and were unwilling to uproot the sizeable Gallente population on Caldari Prime, and second, the Gallenteans were not alone in the Federation and if they allowed the Caldari to leave the Intakis and Mannars, both of them starting to flex their economical and political muscles, might be tempted to follow, thus throwing the whole society into turmoil. The Gallenteans were forced to regard the Caldari as rebels and renegades and had to try to get them back into the Federation, with good or evil.
Below 28 dB
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4025
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:57:00 -
[145] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:The Caldari would probably do worse to gallente POW's, there is kind of a long standing racial hatred between the two going all the way back to when the caldari state tried to pull out of the gallente federation because it wasn't in their best interests any longer. The federation got upset because the caldari essentially tried to close their doors like imperial Japan. Things got bad for the caldari which led to freedom fighters (arguably the worst bunch among them being the Templis Dragonaurs) which led to the attack on nouvelle rouvenor... Which prompted the gallente into the harshest response - the bombing of caldari prime. Caldari primes bombing led to the sacrifice (and martyrdom) of Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba and his fleet and then the caldari-gallente war was in full swing. In relatively recent history there have been a lot more bad things like the attack on malkalen and the rise to power of Tibus Heth and a whole lot more, but its always important to remember that these guys hate each other.
The caldari hate the gallente because the gallente tried to genocide them. The gallente hate the caldari because they're a 'closed society' and because gallente military doctrine is 'they destroy one of our cities we destroy one of their planets'
This is not a discussion of could have, might, or would have.
It is about what IS happening now.
I appreciate that you are quite knowledgeable, so I thank you for your imput, but without proof of Caldari mistreating POW's I cannot revise my opinion.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
833
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Posted - 2013.11.09 00:01:00 -
[146] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:The Caldari would probably do worse to gallente POW's, there is kind of a long standing racial hatred between the two going all the way back to when the caldari state tried to pull out of the gallente federation because it wasn't in their best interests any longer. The federation got upset because the caldari essentially tried to close their doors like imperial Japan. Things got bad for the caldari which led to freedom fighters (arguably the worst bunch among them being the Templis Dragonaurs) which led to the attack on nouvelle rouvenor... Which prompted the gallente into the harshest response - the bombing of caldari prime. Caldari primes bombing led to the sacrifice (and martyrdom) of Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba and his fleet and then the caldari-gallente war was in full swing. In relatively recent history there have been a lot more bad things like the attack on malkalen and the rise to power of Tibus Heth and a whole lot more, but its always important to remember that these guys hate each other.
The caldari hate the gallente because the gallente tried to genocide them. The gallente hate the caldari because they're a 'closed society' and because gallente military doctrine is 'they destroy one of our cities we destroy one of their planets' This is not a discussion of could have, might, or would have. It is about what IS happening now. I appreciate that you are quite knowledgeable, so I thank you for your imput, but without proof of Caldari mistreating POW's I cannot revise my opinion.
I didn't think Caldari took POWs?
The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war.
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4025
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Posted - 2013.11.09 00:18:00 -
[147] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:True Adamance wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:The Caldari would probably do worse to gallente POW's, there is kind of a long standing racial hatred between the two going all the way back to when the caldari state tried to pull out of the gallente federation because it wasn't in their best interests any longer. The federation got upset because the caldari essentially tried to close their doors like imperial Japan. Things got bad for the caldari which led to freedom fighters (arguably the worst bunch among them being the Templis Dragonaurs) which led to the attack on nouvelle rouvenor... Which prompted the gallente into the harshest response - the bombing of caldari prime. Caldari primes bombing led to the sacrifice (and martyrdom) of Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba and his fleet and then the caldari-gallente war was in full swing. In relatively recent history there have been a lot more bad things like the attack on malkalen and the rise to power of Tibus Heth and a whole lot more, but its always important to remember that these guys hate each other.
The caldari hate the gallente because the gallente tried to genocide them. The gallente hate the caldari because they're a 'closed society' and because gallente military doctrine is 'they destroy one of our cities we destroy one of their planets' This is not a discussion of could have, might, or would have. It is about what IS happening now. I appreciate that you are quite knowledgeable, so I thank you for your imput, but without proof of Caldari mistreating POW's I cannot revise my opinion. I didn't think Caldari took POWs?
They do.
(( I believe there was mention of a Caldari prison complex back in the 2009 Demo's....would lead us to believe that they do.... but I was also under the impression they killed almost all of those they fought.))
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Shattered Mirage
D.A.R.K Academy
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
346
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Posted - 2013.11.09 01:07:00 -
[148] - Quote
I favor the Caldari's method of torture.
There are no facts, only interpretations.
I am a monument to all your sins
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
777
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Posted - 2013.11.09 01:22:00 -
[149] - Quote
Waruiko DUST wrote:Minmatar is Israel
Caldari is the Tea Party and GOP
Galente is French Canada
Amarr is the Catholic Church
Not quite.
The Caldari value human life with ISK and definitely want to keep church and state separate, the Tea Party is the complete opposite of that. The Caldari are more like corporate Japan.
The Gallente represent western culture as a whole I think. They love "FREEDOM!", and have a very corrupt government.
The Amarr are somewhat styled like the Catholic Church, but I think they represent monotheistic religions in general.
I'm not quite sure about the Minmatar. I don't know enough about them yet to draw very many comparisons, but I have a suspicion that they represent inslaved people.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1459
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Posted - 2013.11.09 01:41:00 -
[150] - Quote
The Amarr use slave collars to control their slaves.
The Gallente don't feed POWs.
Just thinking, isn't their something in CONCORD about treatment of war prisoners?
Cause there should.
For the State!
For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
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