DUST Search - What is the CPM doing about the assault rifle?

Laurent Cazaderon wrote:

Spectral Clone wrote:

Jenza, IWS, Kain, etc, see title.

For your information, i do play. Didnt much for a while but doing my cap again now.

Now, aside from playing, reading the forums and gathering players feeling and reporting it to devs not much i can do. Unlike what some seem to think, i dont go to Wolfman and scream "Nerf AR !" or "Buff my suit !"

Still, that doesnt prevent me from having an opinion. And i think it is too good at the moment. 1.6 made it even worse as new HD emphasizes a lot its absence of recoil and high rof.

In my opinion, its damage output should be toned down (not nerfed to hell..) and its damage fall off over distance be more noticeable. The coming range changes may help even though when i compare the new numbers with the current ones i dont see much of a difference. Overall, i think all rifles (SR, smgs and the coming CR\RR as well) should have their damage toned down a bit now. (starting with the 10% uprising buff ). Would also make the HMG feel better than it is now without actually tweaking it. (no i dont play as a heavy,)

And btw, i couldnt agree more with the "Core Locus 514" part of your sig. Those need to be toned down as well. Maybe rise their nanite cluster consumption to avoid spamming. decrease the explosion radius and\or damage a tad . Revamp their efficiency vs shield to make them less over-efficient. (yes i do use core locus)

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Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 348	Posted - 2013.11.07 13:42:00 - [1] - Quote Jenza, IWS, Kain, etc, see title. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter. "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
M McManus Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 224	Posted - 2013.11.07 13:52:00 - [2] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Jenza, IWS, Kain, etc, see title. From what I've read the only one that plays anymore is Kain and he's pretty awful as a heavy. So maybe the heavy will get more love...
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 348	Posted - 2013.11.07 13:52:00 - [3] - Quote Noone? Ok, I guess you dont give a ***. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter.* "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1635	Posted - 2013.11.07 13:53:00 - [4] - Quote Nothing
Cosgar ParagonX 7474	Posted - 2013.11.07 13:58:00 - [5] - Quote Nothing because they don't work for CCP. They're just regular players like us. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 349	Posted - 2013.11.07 13:59:00 - [6] - Quote ...and exactly why do we have a CPM again? This is my point. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter. "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 669	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:03:00 - [7] - Quote M McManus wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Jenza, IWS, Kain, etc, see title. From what I've read the only one that plays anymore is Kain and he's pretty awful as a heavy. So maybe the heavy will get more love... hey plays last i saw him ina min logi witha proto smg
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 569	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:03:00 - [8] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: ...and exactly why do we have a CPM again? This is my point. No reason We should just get rid of the CPM IMO
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 259	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:06:00 - [9] - Quote lol aren't they forum moderators?
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1766	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:07:00 - [10] - Quote What exactly is your issue with the AR? Have you seen the new weapons that are coming out? Are you dying too much from a close range high RoF high damage weapon? Are you staying inside its optimals where it is SUPPOSED to chew you to shreds?

Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1164	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:14:00 - [11] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Jenza, IWS, Kain, etc, see title. using them. ha!
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1984	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:16:00 - [12] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: What exactly is your issue with the AR? Have you seen the new weapons that are coming out? Are you dying too much from a close range high RoF high damage weapon? Are you staying inside its optimals where it is SUPPOSED to chew you to shreds? Is that how it's supposed to work? I had no idea looking at it now. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 1 Fix my class already
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 694	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:17:00 - [13] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: ...and exactly why do we have a CPM again? This is my point. Basically what the CPMs do is take player feedback, suggestions, problem, etc. and relay it back to CCP. To put if very simply they test the game and relay the problems back to CCP. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 352	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:17:00 - [14] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: What exactly is your issue with the AR? Have you seen the new weapons that are coming out? Are you dying too much from a close range high RoF high damage weapon? Are you staying inside its optimals where it is SUPPOSED to chew you to shreds? Is this a troll post? Better report you if it is. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter. "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 322	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:19:00 - [15] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: What exactly is your issue with the AR? Have you seen the new weapons that are coming out? Are you dying too much from a close range high RoF high damage weapon? Are you staying inside its optimals where it is SUPPOSED to chew you to shreds? The only thing that is supposed "chew you to shreds" are weapons based on CQC, the AR is a medium range weapon. CCP ****** that part up.
PEW JACKSON s i n g u l a r i t y 95	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:22:00 - [16] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: What exactly is your issue with the AR? Have you seen the new weapons that are coming out? Are you dying too much from a close range high RoF high damage weapon? Are you staying inside its optimals where it is SUPPOSED to chew you to shreds? Considering it has a 40m optimal and an effective range out to 120m.... What do you suppose we all do? It chews through armor just as well, if not better than SMGs in their optimals. It can melt LR users faster in their own optimals with no overheat. Hmg is a huge airsoft gun compared to the AR. Ascr loses in dps due to it's dispersion(WTF???) Scr Rifles meh, there are exceptions, but they're not in a great place. Same with scram pistols Mass Driver users will be dead before the 2nd shot gets fired against an AR. Shotgun users get face raped if they miss more than 2 shots against the all mighty AR. Don't believe it? Find the nearest proto suited dmg modded AR scrub and see how you die. Btw I've seen the new weaps that are coming. Chances are AR scrubs that die to them will cry NERF!!! Then after a few CCP hammer swings, we'll be playing AR 514 again. If anyone's left.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 2021	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:37:00 - [17] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Jenza, IWS, Kain, etc, see title. For your information, i do play. Didnt much for a while but doing my cap again now. Now, aside from playing, reading the forums and gathering players feeling and reporting it to devs not much i can do. Unlike what some seem to think, i dont go to Wolfman and scream "Nerf AR !" or "Buff my suit !" Still, that doesnt prevent me from having an opinion. And i think it is too good at the moment. 1.6 made it even worse as new HD emphasizes a lot its absence of recoil and high rof. In my opinion, its damage output should be toned down (not nerfed to hell..) and its damage fall off over distance be more noticeable. The coming range changes may help even though when i compare the new numbers with the current ones i dont see much of a difference. Overall, i think all rifles (SR, smgs and the coming CR\RR as well) should have their damage toned down a bit now. (starting with the 10% uprising buff ). Would also make the HMG feel better than it is now without actually tweaking it. (no i dont play as a heavy,) And btw, i couldnt agree more with the "Core Locus 514" part of your sig. Those need to be toned down as well. Maybe rise their nanite cluster consumption to avoid spamming. decrease the explosion radius and\or damage a tad . Revamp their efficiency vs shield to make them less over-efficient. (yes i do use core locus) This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 354	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:44:00 - [18] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Jenza, IWS, Kain, etc, see title. For your information, i do play. Didnt much for a while but doing my cap again now. Now, aside from playing, reading the forums and gathering players feeling and reporting it to devs not much i can do. Unlike what some seem to think, i dont go to Wolfman and scream "Nerf AR !" or "Buff my suit !" Still, that doesnt prevent me from having an opinion. And i think it is too good at the moment. 1.6 made it even worse as new HD emphasizes a lot its absence of recoil and high rof. In my opinion, its damage output should be toned down (not nerfed to hell..) and its damage fall off over distance be more noticeable. The coming range changes may help even though when i compare the new numbers with the current ones i dont see much of a difference. Overall, i think all rifles (SR, smgs and the coming CR\RR as well) should have their damage toned down a bit now. (starting with the 10% uprising buff ). Would also make the HMG feel better than it is now without actually tweaking it. (no i dont play as a heavy,) And btw, i couldnt agree more with the "Core Locus 514" part of your sig. Those need to be toned down as well. Maybe rise their nanite cluster consumption to avoid spamming. decrease the explosion radius and\or damage a tad . Revamp their efficiency vs shield to make them less over-efficient. (yes i do use core locus) I like you. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter. "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
Cosgar ParagonX 7480	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:45:00 - [19] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Jenza, IWS, Kain, etc, see title. For your information, i do play. Didnt much for a while but doing my cap again now. Now, aside from playing, reading the forums and gathering players feeling and reporting it to devs not much i can do. Unlike what some seem to think, i dont go to Wolfman and scream "Nerf AR !" or "Buff my suit !" Still, that doesnt prevent me from having an opinion. And i think it is too good at the moment. 1.6 made it even worse as new HD emphasizes a lot its absence of recoil and high rof. In my opinion, its damage output should be toned down (not nerfed to hell..) and its damage fall off over distance be more noticeable. The coming range changes may help even though when i compare the new numbers with the current ones i dont see much of a difference. Overall, i think all rifles (SR, smgs and the coming CR\RR as well) should have their damage toned down a bit now. (starting with the 10% uprising buff ). Would also make the HMG feel better than it is now without actually tweaking it. (no i dont play as a heavy,) And btw, i couldnt agree more with the "Core Locus 514" part of your sig. Those need to be toned down as well. Maybe rise their nanite cluster consumption to avoid spamming. decrease the explosion radius and\or damage a tad . Revamp their efficiency vs shield to make them less over-efficient. (yes i do use core locus) I can't help but get the impression that almost everything is balaced based on bad hit detection. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2204	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:46:00 - [20] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Jenza, IWS, Kain, etc, see title. For your information, i do play. Didnt much for a while but doing my cap again now. Now, aside from playing, reading the forums and gathering players feeling and reporting it to devs not much i can do. Unlike what some seem to think, i dont go to Wolfman and scream "Nerf AR !" or "Buff my suit !" Still, that doesnt prevent me from having an opinion. And i think it is too good at the moment. 1.6 made it even worse as new HD emphasizes a lot its absence of recoil and high rof. In my opinion, its damage output should be toned down (not nerfed to hell..) and its damage fall off over distance be more noticeable. The coming range changes may help even though when i compare the new numbers with the current ones i dont see much of a difference. Overall, i think all rifles (SR, smgs and the coming CR\RR as well) should have their damage toned down a bit now. (starting with the 10% uprising buff ). Would also make the HMG feel better than it is now without actually tweaking it. (no i dont play as a heavy,) And btw, i couldnt agree more with the "Core Locus 514" part of your sig. Those need to be toned down as well. Maybe rise their nanite cluster consumption to avoid spamming. decrease the explosion radius and\or damage a tad . Revamp their efficiency vs shield to make them less over-efficient. (yes i do use core locus) I've been hearing that grenade damage was only buffed to its current levels as a temporary nod to hit detection problem that have already been solved. Shouldn't the damage buff on those simply be reversed? And why not just get rid of the headshot damage multiplier for grenades? My understanding is that is the primary reason there are so many one hit kills with locus grenades right now.

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1766	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:46:00 - [21] - Quote PEW JACKSON wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: What exactly is your issue with the AR? Have you seen the new weapons that are coming out? Are you dying too much from a close range high RoF high damage weapon? Are you staying inside its optimals where it is SUPPOSED to chew you to shreds? Considering it has a 40m optimal and an effective range out to 120m.... What do you suppose we all do? It chews through armor just as well, if not better than SMGs in their optimals. It can melt LR users faster in their own optimals with no overheat. Hmg is a huge airsoft gun compared to the AR. Ascr loses in dps due to it's dispersion(WTF???) Scr Rifles meh, there are exceptions, but they're not in a great place. Same with scram pistols Mass Driver users will be dead before the 2nd shot gets fired against an AR. Shotgun users get face raped if they miss more than 2 shots against the all mighty AR. Don't believe it? Find the nearest proto suited dmg modded AR scrub and see how you die. Btw I've seen the new weaps that are coming. Chances are AR scrubs that die to them will cry NERF!!! Then after a few CCP hammer swings, we'll be playing AR 514 again. If anyone's left. If there is an issue I have with the AR itself, yes it is dispersion. But frankly, as a player who has figured out how to pick engagement easily outside of the 50m circle on my map with weapons that can outperform against the AR I have little sympathy for your DPS arguments. If you tone down the DPS on the AR much more than 5-10%, then just outside their falloff EVERY OTHER rifle become completely dominant over them. Inside their optimals they are king. Changing it to have slightly more dispersion would be enough to mechanically alter DPS. At about 50% of their falloff they have pretty good sustained damage compared to other weapons. However, any AR but a duvolle/TAC with damage mods cannot compete with the lasers at its 70m optimals. The only other situation where your argument is more valid than not is in PC where lag favors high damage, close proximity, and reliably high RoF weapons. That is NOT A STAT ISSUE, that is a hardware/performance issue.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 2023	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:46:00 - [22] - Quote PEW JACKSON wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: What exactly is your issue with the AR? Have you seen the new weapons that are coming out? Are you dying too much from a close range high RoF high damage weapon? Are you staying inside its optimals where it is SUPPOSED to chew you to shreds? Considering it has a 40m optimal and an effective range out to 120m.... What do you suppose we all do? It chews through armor just as well, if not better than SMGs in their optimals. It can melt LR users faster in their own optimals with no overheat. Hmg is a huge airsoft gun compared to the AR. Ascr loses in dps due to it's dispersion(WTF???) Scr Rifles meh, there are exceptions, but they're not in a great place. Same with scram pistols Mass Driver users will be dead before the 2nd shot gets fired against an AR. Shotgun users get face raped if they miss more than 2 shots against the all mighty AR. Don't believe it? Find the nearest proto suited dmg modded AR scrub and see how you die. Btw I've seen the new weaps that are coming. Chances are AR scrubs that die to them will cry NERF!!! Then after a few CCP hammer swings, we'll be playing AR 514 again. If anyone's left. That's the key. If you watch the stats for the next 2 ARs, the higher the range, the bigger the DPS (for a same variant), And there's a lot to bet the bigger the recoil. In theory, it's a pattern that could work. But when combined with aim assist\hit detection\dispersion, a number that seems fine may not be when you're on the BF. Having the AR be king of ARs in close quarter doesnt strike me as odd. Having it not even fear lasers, does. So yeah. I'd be inclined to have an overall damage decrease of automatic weapons as i said before (except HMG) to see if that helps the rifle vs everything else debate. And then, before tweaking numbers among different types of rifles, i'd wait and see how the range changes and new rifles affect the rifles dynamic on the field. Which pains me as i'm currently stuck with the ASCR that i probably love as much as i hate it.... This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 908	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:49:00 - [23] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: What exactly is your issue with the AR? Have you seen the new weapons that are coming out? Are you dying too much from a close range high RoF high damage weapon? Are you staying inside its optimals where it is SUPPOSED to chew you to shreds? Problem with the AR is that it's not a close range weapon, it's a close-long range high ROF high damage weapon If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 354	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:49:00 - [24] - Quote I agree with the above posters that most weapons seem to be balanced wrt bad performance. This patch just became a ketchup effect of OP instakill weapon, which ruins the game for me and many others... +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter. "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 2024	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:58:00 - [25] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: I agree with the above posters that most weapons seem to be balanced wrt bad performance. This patch just became a ketchup effect of OP instakill weapon, which ruins the game for me and many others... Dont blame the patch. I mean, it gets me frustrated as well in some situations. But overall, finally having an effective hit detection is good. Now there's just a need to adjust data accordingly. IF we think about it, it makes sense that a good HD suddenly makes automatic weapons better. SMGs are pretty beasty as well now. HMG with the slight heavy buff are ripping me off now compared to how weak most heavy\hmg were in 1.5. So yeah, it's frustrating to get insta dropped by AR (and to be fair, i insta drop people with my ASCR as well.) but it's a huge improvement to the game that makes it so. I like it better this way to be honest : fixing thing because game got technically better and not the other way around. This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
dustwaffle The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 632	Posted - 2013.11.07 15:02:00 - [26] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I can't help but get the impression that almost everything is balaced based on bad hit detection. Not empty quoting.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1766	Posted - 2013.11.07 15:08:00 - [27] - Quote I dunno guys, I've maybe only put about 4-5 hours into the 1.6 patch and have mostly been messing around with a 500 eHP logi suit with a scrambler rifle and pistol. and a commando (850 eHP) with a laser/AScr/SLauncher combo. All of those suits are normally scanner fit, so I'm seeing my enemies before they see me. I just can't say that my TTK/TTdeath experience is matching how you guys are describing. I guess it is very possible that the squads I've been with have had some AR dominators that were doing most of the work...
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 2024	Posted - 2013.11.07 15:09:00 - [28] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: Cosgar wrote: I can't help but get the impression that almost everything is balaced based on bad hit detection. Not empty quoting. That's not wrong. 10% post uprising damage buff. aim assist. Lower scout speed. overall reduced movement speed nerf over time. HMG health debuff (the very old debuff) etc.. That's why i maintain that this patch is a major good new. As the HD is now very fine imo, the next balance pass will be done on healthier fondations. This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 357	Posted - 2013.11.07 15:13:00 - [29] - Quote I just feel that I kill stuff too fast with Toxin AR and ScR. Maybe that is good for me, but it is not good for the game, since it it is supposed to be a shooter with High Hp, strafing and tracking skills. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter. "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 842	Posted - 2013.11.07 15:15:00 - [30] - Quote in the first cpm election... vote pirate



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