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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2124
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Posted - 2013.11.09 05:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
Here's feedback:
Militia stabalizers are terrible for several reasons
1. They make it harder to actually fly and land
2. We don't want stabalizers to creep into out Real dropships
3. Militia drop-ships are absolutely pointless in this game; because they can die instantly in a single forge hit from anywhere with no warning
4. Why would you want to hover in one place, given how militia dropships shouldn't even exist in Dust if they are only meant to be forge fodder
tl;dr
remove stabilizers,
make militia dropships actually viable in some sense to begin with.
A militia dropsuit can wreck people
A miliia dropship can only wreck into people. |
The-Errorist
344
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Posted - 2013.11.09 17:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Dropships also knocked back more than usual in this build by forges and other weapons. |
The Aponymous
Equstrian Guard
0
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Posted - 2013.11.10 04:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Its ridiculous, just started playing on the 1.6 update today and i flew my cheapest assault dropship build(583,995isk). I instantly notice the stabilty and i said to myself "wow! This is awesome! I can now shoot in place!" But before i killed anyone, a forge gunner starts shooting at me. I turned on my repairers and quickly recovered all my armor and shield. The forge gunner was still shooting at me so i accelerated top speed to get to a safe place. In the process of breaking and landing at top speed near a hill, I expected to hover near it like all the other many times i did this, instead i went headstrong into the hill, losing my shield and half my armor. I was still holding the ascension trigger( this is my way i break near ground at high speed) and my camera went way below my ship. I forgotton about the forge gunner because i was focused trying to regain control of my ship and i went up to high giving the forge gunner a perfect shot at my weakend state, killing me. They should of had made a module that stabilizes the ship instead of changing its complete mobility by a scale fold. |
KenKaniff69
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
838
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Posted - 2013.11.10 05:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Dachande Anasazi wrote:For the militia if you stop touchign the sticks the ship will automatically even out and be parrallel to the ground. It is only bad if you kept wanting to fly at an awkward position. Correct. It's only on milita and feedback would be very nice indeed 
revert to chromosome or closed beta flying mechanics-STORY OVER |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2134
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Posted - 2013.11.10 05:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
The Aponymous wrote:Its ridiculous, just started playing on the 1.6 update today and i flew my cheapest assault dropship build(583,995isk). I instantly notice the stabilty and i said to myself "wow! This is awesome! I can now shoot in place!" But before i killed anyone, a forge gunner starts shooting at me. I turned on my repairers and quickly recovered all my armor and shield. The forge gunner was still shooting at me so i accelerated top speed to get to a safe place. In the process of breaking and landing at top speed near a hill, I expected to hover near it like all the other many times i did this, instead i went headstrong into the hill, losing my shield and half my armor. I was still holding the ascension trigger( this is my way i break near ground at high speed) and my camera went way below my ship. I forgotton about the forge gunner because i was focused trying to regain control of my ship and i went up to high giving the forge gunner a perfect shot at my weakend state, killing me. They should of had made a module that stabilizes the ship instead of changing its complete mobility by a scale fold.
1. Stabilizers are not in assault dropship
2. You don't know what you're talking about
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2405
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Posted - 2013.11.10 08:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
I've used it in several matches and I still hate it.
The only thing the Viper as going for it is speed and agility. It needs to launch fast, speed to the objective, and plant itself accurately before being recalled. The changes killed that.
Yes stability is great to hover and let your gunners blow up installations, but that happens once in a hundred matches. I had one like that today where the enemy team must have all just graduated from the academy and nobody pulled any AV. Every other match has AV destroying the lumbering Viper.
Give us back the Precursor agility, please!
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Sargon Akkadi
Ordus Trismegistus
17
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Posted - 2013.11.10 08:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Dachande Anasazi wrote:For the militia if you stop touchign the sticks the ship will automatically even out and be parrallel to the ground. It is only bad if you kept wanting to fly at an awkward position. Correct. It's only on milita and feedback would be very nice indeed
Okay, since you asked! :)
Firstly, please don't add it to the other dropships!
I can see how it makes the Militia seem a little more new-player friendly. That said, I prefer flying as having a "real skill" barrier of entry. There are some who claim to be naturals, but I found (and continue to find) great enjoyment in practicing and learning better technique. The stabilizers actually take away from this experience for new pilots. They have to upgrade to practice with the training wheels off, and there is no longer a cheap option (er, kinda) to try something new and crazy for an experienced pilot.
On a sidenote, could you please clarify the speed changes for the standard dropship in 1.7? :) |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2405
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Posted - 2013.11.10 08:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
The dropship is a combat aircraft, not a trainer. Remove the training wheels.
Make a trainer if you want, but make it a new bird if you must. Don't make the militia ship useless for combat. |
fawkuima juggalo
Eternal Beings
149
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Posted - 2013.11.10 10:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Dachande Anasazi wrote:For the militia if you stop touchign the sticks the ship will automatically even out and be parrallel to the ground. It is only bad if you kept wanting to fly at an awkward position. Correct. It's only on militia and feedback would be very nice indeed
-1 .....  very unhappy with the dropship leveling.... i used to be able to fly my dropship through the spaces of the triple doughnut, and other madd cool maneuvers. I didn't want to have to upgrade dropships yet to avoid this.......
On the other hand, i understand why you did it, to give new players better control. The issues are though that the dropship is so much more vulnerable then before it takes away a lot of the chance to practice and adds to more frustration.
SOLUTION: Add auto leveling to the aerial vehicles options menu, have it turned on automatically but give players a sensitivity choice like; none, low, med, high, or even a sensitivity bar. The better dropships should start with the option turned off, but still be able to turn it on freely.
how thats for feedback 
FIGHT FOR A CAUSE, EVEN IF IT'S NEXT TO YOU.
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Broonfondle Majikthies
Bannana Boat Corp
412
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Posted - 2013.11.10 11:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Yesterday I went into a game with my Assault DS and now I love the new changes to manoeuvrability. I went toe to toe with another DS pilot and had a good scrap up in the skies and then at least 6 swarmers were on towers trying to take my down, most of them proto.
Now I got to say, I'm not the best pilot by far but I managed to evade most of them with just high speed sharp turns. The trick seems to be in knowing when to change direction. Sudden changes are harder to pull off, slowing the craft down and leaving it vulnerable. I suggest (I'm no expert and I would never willingly tell people what to do, pinch of salt therefore) is if say your moving in a left ark but then want to suddenly move right its actually far easier to swing even sharper left until your facing the direction you want and then thrust forward. A bit mad I know but often works for me.
I was rather proud of that match, the firepower rallied against me was impressive. Just a shame I had cycled turrets so I couldn't really fight back (The old camera angle made these far easier for me to use but oddly enough now I can see more where I'm shooting I cant make use of them  )
What is really punishing is the lack of vertical thrust. Luckily the afterburner is still about as effective so is more essential than ever
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
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Talos Vagheitan
171
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Posted - 2013.11.11 00:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
Haven't tried out the militia dropships. Mixed feelings, easier for rookies to learn I suppose. Although I do like being in a bit of an exclusive group of people who can fly and land dropships properly.
Just please don't make them too easy. As long as this only ever applies to militia dropships I'm okay with it.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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The-Errorist
344
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Posted - 2013.11.11 03:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
After flying around for a couple hours for a few days, I got used to using both the Caldari & Gallente Militia dropships and using their assault dropships. The change to maneuvering isn't as terribly bad after you get used to it. I can still do all the things I used to, but not as quickly. I also need to be extra careful of AV when doing risky maneuvers since AV, especially forgeguns, as they knock you back more than usual with this change. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2407
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Posted - 2013.11.11 03:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Haven't tried out the militia dropships. Mixed feelings, easier for rookies to learn I suppose. Although I do like being in a bit of an exclusive group of people who can fly and land dropships properly.
Just please don't make them too easy. As long as this only ever applies to militia dropships I'm okay with it.
it's like giving strong Auto-Aim to militia suits so new players can do well. It dumbs down the game by removing the requirement for player skill. |
The-Errorist
344
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Posted - 2013.11.11 03:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Haven't tried out the militia dropships. Mixed feelings, easier for rookies to learn I suppose. Although I do like being in a bit of an exclusive group of people who can fly and land dropships properly.
Just please don't make them too easy. As long as this only ever applies to militia dropships I'm okay with it. it's like giving strong Auto-Aim to militia suits so new players can do well. It dumbs down the game by removing the requirement for player skill.
Even though thats true, it only applies for the extra squishy militia dropships. Experienced players can still use them just fine while it lets players that don't know how to fly get better; it's like training wheels on a bicycle. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2407
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Posted - 2013.11.11 03:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Dropship pilots are a fiercely loyal to their ships. They have endured repeated nerfs, neglect, and wallet draining expense because they love flying. They love it because being an accomplished pilot meant something.
Dumb down the player skill requirements and you may well accomplish what several builds of abuse failed to do, drive out the dedicated pilots. If you turn them back into the flying bumper cars of E3 that required zero skill you will kill flying as a skilled role and dropships will be just a flying jeep. |
Talos Vagheitan
171
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Posted - 2013.11.11 03:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Haven't tried out the militia dropships. Mixed feelings, easier for rookies to learn I suppose. Although I do like being in a bit of an exclusive group of people who can fly and land dropships properly.
Just please don't make them too easy. As long as this only ever applies to militia dropships I'm okay with it. it's like giving strong Auto-Aim to militia suits so new players can do well. It dumbs down the game by removing the requirement for player skill.
Does that happen to be a reference about my recent TTK post? If so, I'm afraid you have the concept dead wrong. It will in fact help skilled players.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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The-Errorist
344
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Posted - 2013.11.11 03:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Dropship pilots are a fiercely loyal to their ships. They have endured repeated nerfs, neglect, and wallet draining expense because they love flying. They love it because being an accomplished pilot meant something.
Dumb down the player skill requirements and you may well accomplish what several builds of abuse failed to do, drive out the dedicated pilots. If you turn them back into the flying bumper cars of E3 that required zero skill you will kill flying as a skilled role and dropships will be just a flying jeep.
You do realize that the auto-stabilization is only for militia dropships AND it's not always on? |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2408
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Posted - 2013.11.11 04:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Skihids wrote:Dropship pilots are a fiercely loyal to their ships. They have endured repeated nerfs, neglect, and wallet draining expense because they love flying. They love it because being an accomplished pilot meant something.
Dumb down the player skill requirements and you may well accomplish what several builds of abuse failed to do, drive out the dedicated pilots. If you turn them back into the flying bumper cars of E3 that required zero skill you will kill flying as a skilled role and dropships will be just a flying jeep. You do realize that the auto-stabilization is only for militia dropships AND it's not always on?
It's a precedent, one that has already sparked a request for an auto -level button for all dropships.
It's one more wrong turn in a long line of bad decisions that will end up killing the role of pilot.
The dropship will become just another utility of the infantry player. They will be treated just like LAVs, just pull one out when you need to get somewhere, then recall it when you are done. |
Talos Vagheitan
171
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Posted - 2013.11.11 05:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
Skihids wrote:The-Errorist wrote:[quote=Skihids] It's a precedent, one that has already sparked a request for an auto -level button for all dropships. It's one more wrong turn in a long line of bad decisions that will end up killing the role of pilot. The dropship will become just another utility of the infantry player. They will be treated just like LAVs, just pull one out when you need to get somewhere, then recall it when you are done.
Exactly.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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The-Errorist
346
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Posted - 2013.11.11 05:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Skihids wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Skihids wrote:Dropship pilots are a fiercely loyal to their ships. They have endured repeated nerfs, neglect, and wallet draining expense because they love flying. They love it because being an accomplished pilot meant something.
Dumb down the player skill requirements and you may well accomplish what several builds of abuse failed to do, drive out the dedicated pilots. If you turn them back into the flying bumper cars of E3 that required zero skill you will kill flying as a skilled role and dropships will be just a flying jeep. You do realize that the auto-stabilization is only for militia dropships AND it's not always on? It's a precedent, one that has already sparked a request for an auto -level button for all dropships. It's one more wrong turn in a long line of bad decisions that will end up killing the role of pilot. The dropship will become just another utility of the infantry player. They will be treated just like LAVs, just pull one out when you need to get somewhere, then recall it when you are done.
You're being ridiculous. A having auto-leveling as an option wouldn't drive away pilots or make kill the role of a pilot. Sure CCP has made several bad decisions that drove away pilots, but that wouldn't be one of them. If they plan of making it a button or button combo, part of the aerial vehicle settings, it wouldn't hurt pilots as it would be an always on thing which would drive away some pilots.
With auto-leveling, it wouldn't make being a pilot as nearly as easy as it was back then at E3. To even suggest that is laughable. |
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Talos Vagheitan
174
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Posted - 2013.11.11 06:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:[quote=Skihids][quote=The-Errorist][quote=Skihids]
With auto-leveling, it wouldn't make being a pilot as nearly as easy as it was back then at E3. To even suggest that is laughable.
What he's saying is that adding auto-leveling to dropships would make having an actual pilot unnecessary. And he's right.
If CCP turned every player into an auto-pilot why would anyone want to specialize into that role? Besides, it seems most of the people who want auto-leveling are snipers trying to get to hiding places who:
A.) Don't want to learn how to fly their ships
B.) Don't communicate with their team in order to ask for a ride from a Pilot
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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The-Errorist
346
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Posted - 2013.11.11 06:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:The-Errorist wrote:[quote=Skihids][quote=The-Errorist][quote=Skihids]
With auto-leveling, it wouldn't make being a pilot as nearly as easy as it was back then at E3. To even suggest that is laughable. What he's saying is that adding auto-leveling to dropships would make having an actual pilot unnecessary. And he's right. If CCP turned every player into an auto-pilot why would anyone want to specialize into that role? Besides, it seems most of the people who want auto-leveling are snipers trying to get to hiding places who: A.) Don't want to learn how to fly their ships B.) Don't communicate with their team in order to ask for a ride from a Pilot
Auto-leveling should just be for militia dropships. Auto-leveling is NOT auto-pilot and being a pilot is more than just keeping your dropship leveled. If you fly a dropship you would know that. |
Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
117
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Posted - 2013.11.11 06:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
Is it just me or did the vertical thrust on milita dropships become buggy in 1.6? I ask because it seems like at times i will be flying along, noes down to pick up some forward speed. I then bring up the nose (to horizontal) but i don't start gaining altitude. I have to release the throttle and tap it again to begin gaining altitude.
EVE - Victor Maximus
DUST - Azri Sarum
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The-Errorist
347
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Posted - 2013.11.11 06:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
Azri Sarum wrote:Is it just me or did the vertical thrust on milita dropships become buggy in 1.6? I ask because it seems like at times i will be flying along, noes down to pick up some forward speed. I then bring up the nose (to horizontal) but i don't start gaining altitude. I have to release the throttle and tap it again to begin gaining altitude.
Just tried it on a militia Caldari DS to be 100% sure and it works fine. It's probably just you. It was working for me earlier today on a militia Gallente DS. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2411
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Posted - 2013.11.11 15:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Azri Sarum wrote:Is it just me or did the vertical thrust on milita dropships become buggy in 1.6? I ask because it seems like at times i will be flying along, noes down to pick up some forward speed. I then bring up the nose (to horizontal) but i don't start gaining altitude. I have to release the throttle and tap it again to begin gaining altitude.
I had a problem with a hacked dropship one match where vertical thrust was so diminished that it rise slower than a hand cranked elevator and topped out before clearing the center tower in Fracture Road. I was concerned that CCP had reistituted the old flight ceiling. Fortunately that didn't occur a second time. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2411
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Posted - 2013.11.11 15:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:The-Errorist wrote:[quote=Skihids][quote=The-Errorist][quote=Skihids]
With auto-leveling, it wouldn't make being a pilot as nearly as easy as it was back then at E3. To even suggest that is laughable. What he's saying is that adding auto-leveling to dropships would make having an actual pilot unnecessary. And he's right. If CCP turned every player into an auto-pilot why would anyone want to specialize into that role? Besides, it seems most of the people who want auto-leveling are snipers trying to get to hiding places who: A.) Don't want to learn how to fly their ships B.) Don't communicate with their team in order to ask for a ride from a Pilot
My point is LAV driving isn't a role, it's just something everyone does. Some folks can drive better than others, but it's not a demanding task and it's difficult to kill yourself in it.
Nobody over the age of 16 proudly declares themselves a car driver. It's simply expected.
Holding a pilots license on the other than is special. Not everyone has the skils to fly in our world.
If you remove the majority of player skill from flying a dropship you relegate it to the level of LAV driving and it no longer presents the personal challenge that draws the fanaticism of dedicated pilots. Yes, you may have more pilots just like you have more LAV drivers, but it will be a mere convienence like a LAV. |
The-Errorist
349
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Posted - 2013.11.11 23:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Skihids wrote:My point is LAV driving isn't a role, it's just something everyone does. Some folks can drive better than others, but it's not a demanding task and it's difficult to kill yourself in it.
Nobody over the age of 16 proudly declares themselves a car driver. It's simply expected.
Holding a pilots license on the other than is special. Not everyone has the skils to fly in our world.
If you remove the majority of player skill from flying a dropship you relegate it to the level of LAV driving and it no longer presents the personal challenge that draws the fanaticism of dedicated pilots. Yes, you may have more pilots just like you have more LAV drivers, but it will be a mere convienence like a LAV.
Auto-leveling does not as you say "remove the majority of player skill from flying a dropship" and flying a dropship is require more than just keeping the dropship level. Dropships can already be used as a mere convenience like a LAV, just as they can both be used as a mobile transport unit with a turret, and do other roles.
We are not talking about real life, we are talking about flying in Dust. A pilot is merely someone that uses a dropship. It just sounds like you're wanting piloting a DS to be all elitist and high skill, but you're claims that having auto-stabilitation for dropships will destroy the pilot role is complete nonsense. It'll only make more people pilots and let the become more proficient once they move up to STD dropships.
What do you have against giving players more means to get better at flying so they don't kill themselves in it? |
MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
22
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Posted - 2013.11.11 23:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Dachande Anasazi wrote:For the militia if you stop touchign the sticks the ship will automatically even out and be parrallel to the ground. It is only bad if you kept wanting to fly at an awkward position. Correct. It's only on milita and feedback would be very nice indeed
I like the stabilization feature (and the automatic stabilization is fine on militia dropships). I would like to see stabilization tied to the currently unused square button for non-militia dropships, it would be a massive help for me and my dropship gunners. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2414
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Posted - 2013.11.12 15:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
I want player skill to be required for high level play. Yes, anyone can fly a dropship to crash it on top of a roof to set up a sniper nest, but they won't be effective assault pilots.
The easier a weapon is to use the less damage it can be allowed to do and remain balanced. Swarm Launchers are a case in point. They are so easy to use the damage has to be capped. OTH, nobody is complaining about the PC's damage because it takes a lot of skill to get a hit.
If you make dropships too easy to use the populace will demand that they be nerfed. I don't want that.
Making the dropship too easy to fly is like giving AA to the sniper rifle. The ensuing carnage would spark calls to nerf the damage level and all the accomplished snipers would hate it.
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Brush Master
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
969
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Posted - 2013.11.12 19:07:00 -
[60] - Quote
Skihids wrote:I don't fly regularly anymore, just using them at the start of a match. My initial impression is that the new handling makes it far more difficult to make a fast flight and precision landing.
I used to be able to swoop in, nose up to break hard, then drop straight down. Now I'm all over the place and it takes five times as long to plant the bird.
With aircraft there is the basic tradeoff of stability and responsiveness. More stable means easy to learn to fly and more responsive means you can do more with it. I've spent many hours flying the Precursor ships and while they required that practice they paid off. The new ships aren't as useful.
The decreased maneuverability combined with the tight camera has me slamming into buildings and terrain a lot.
+1 Precursor
GÇá Havok Core - Closed Beta Corp - Accepting Applications Here GÇá
CEO // [email protected]
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