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IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
124
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Posted - 2013.11.07 11:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:- Lowest HP amount of all suits => That's the case already. Scouts are made of paper. HD \ aim assist emphasize that a lot. Out of curiosity, how much HP do you usually have on your fits ? After 1.4, I switched from using biotics on my gal scout and now use a basic armor plate and a basic reactive plate to make my scout have enough ehp to be usable. So around 310 without considering the bonus from the Shield & Armor skills. [/quote]
Minmatar advanced, around 270 + 84 sh/ar hp
[...]
Quote:- Fastest of all suits => Also the case. But not enough considering damage output \ HD \ aim assist. Even though i hated them, i loved the time where i was seeing scouts going at the speed of light. They were troubling basterds and it seemed fun to play with. That got nerfed due to HD making hitting them a nightmare. So that would be my first pick for a buff. restore them as speed tankers. This would be much appreciated.
[/quote][/quote]
Completely concur with Krom. I picked Minmatar for the speed (and knives). As an aside, if the fastest scout can't speed tank, no other suit can, and that would seem to make the most of the Biotics sub-tree irrelevant. Biotics should mean more.
Quote:- Sneakiest of all suits => it is since 1.6 it appears. Tacnet stealth is fine against other suits. Installations and objectives being omniscient within a certain radius is a major problem for us. Still need visual stealth like cloak. [/quote][/quote]
I realise something new every day - didn't even occur to me that installations are scanning *me*, even though I use it tactically myself for spotting reds. Why should installations have scanners at all? But if they do - yeah...make the precision in line with an assault suit or something.
Quote:Overall, scouts should be deadly but require a very specific and demanding play style. The slightest error getting you killed. Does that match what you would expect of scouts ?
For stats and risk vs reward proportions, yes. However, scouts still lack some utility on the battlefield that no other suit can do as well as us. We need E-War and to be the suit most proficient at it so that scouts can start fulfilling what I believe is their true purpose, to be the anti-logi and debuff the enemy.[/quote]
Yes it does, but the reward should also match the risk - no error means I get close enough or into the right position to have the major advantage in a one-on-one. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
124
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Posted - 2013.11.07 11:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:
[...]
- Lowest HP amount of all suits => That's the case already. Scouts are made of paper. HD \ aim assist emphasize that a lot. Out of curiosity, how much HP do you usually have on your fits ?
Minmatar advanced, around 270 + 84 sh/ar hp
Laurent Cazaderon wrote: - Fastest of all suits => Also the case. But not enough considering damage output \ HD \ aim assist. Even though i hated them, i loved the time where i was seeing scouts going at the speed of light. They were troubling basterds and it seemed fun to play with. That got nerfed due to HD making hitting them a nightmare. So that would be my first pick for a buff. restore them as true speed tankers. Just like i'd love seeing heavies slower but a lot more deadly like they were a long time ago.
Completely concur with Krom earlier. I picked Minmatar for the speed (and knives). As an aside, if the fastest scout can't speed tank, no other suit can, and that would seem to make the most of the Biotics sub-tree irrelevant. Biotics should mean more.
Laurent Cazaderon wrote: - Sneakiest of all suits => it is since 1.6 it appears.
Re: Krom and installations:I realise something new every day - didn't even occur to me that installations are scanning *me*, even though I use it tactically myself for spotting reds. Why should installations have scanners at all? But if they do - yeah...make the precision in line with an assault suit or something.
Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Overall, scouts should be deadly but require a very specific and demanding play style. The slightest error getting you killed. Does that match what you would expect of scouts ?
Yes it does, but the reward should also match the risk - no error means I get close enough or into the right position to have the major advantage in a one-on-one, or similar if it's objective based.
It's great to hear a CPM asking these questions :) There's 180 pages of Scout registry for you to read too! also a whole host of threads relating to various in-game testing that our dedicated brothers have undertaken ;-) |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
2019
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Posted - 2013.11.07 13:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote: - Sneakiest of all suits => it is since 1.6 it appears.
The most frustrating thing is that we are not as sneaky as it appears. Ill explain 1. Even with scout level 5 and profile dampening 5 we need to fit a profile dampener to evade prototype scanners. Does that sound balanced? A good balance would be if like cancels like. EX: scout level 3 evades adv scanners, scout level 5 evades proto scanners. There can be one scanner in each tier that would have a "higher precision rating" to help balance further. 2. Installations have a scan radius of 50m and perfect scan precision. We can't even go anywhere near an enemy controlled objective and expect to survive. Thats not sneaky. Either give scouts the ability to evade installations scan radius, or change installations precision to be more in line with the suits ( 30-46dB). My adv scout, which I usually run has 260 shield and 80 armor. When I want to live for more than 1 second, I have ~equal shield and armor to the tone of ~430hp. I would love a speed buff again.....especially since I adored the speed the old winmitar had...and the reason I choose it over gallente.
I wasnt aware of the thing you're bringing up in 2. And i dont get why it even exists. I can understand for Turrets as they need to be able to scan the area to fire at enemies. But perfect precision ? Hell that's weird. I'll remember that.
As for other installations\objectives. Why would they spot anything ?
Now regarding 1. I dont think even a proto scout should be able to natively dodge a proto scanner. Actually, i'd say they should depending on the circumstances. Just like weapons have absolute range and effective range, i'd love the scanners to have a similar fall off system. Meaning that the radius of the scan may be 100m and 60-¦. But the precision of the scan should decrease over distance and edges of the angle.
There you'd have balance. A proto scout without supplemental profile dampener would dodge the proto scanner if not caught up at say less than 30m and directly facing the scanner. And a total sneaky scout would add a dampener and only be spotted when scanned at 10M for example.
Overall, i tend to not like the possibility of totally evading something.
As for a speed buff, i'm not surprised you guys seemed to agree it would help. It's actually the main defense you have. But tbh, any kind of speed buff will remain useless as long as the aim assist is as strong as it is now. Usually playing KBM, i tried a controller last night and did some very ackward kills due to aim assist. Kills i never should have get. So combined to your low EHP no wonder you're getting crushed.
Speed buff also means less need for biotics so an extra bit of hp or stealth. As for cloaking, i just cant say anything
and thanks that thread is a goldmine to me. I had been in other scout discussions in the past though.
This Char i only use on the forum.
To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype.
Et vive la France !
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
580
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Posted - 2013.11.07 13:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:As for a speed buff, i'm not surprised you guys seemed to agree it would help. It's actually the main defense you have. But tbh, any kind of speed buff will remain useless as long as the aim assist is as strong as it is now. Usually playing KBM, i tried a controller last night and did some very ackward kills due to aim assist. Kills i never should have get. So combined to your low EHP no wonder you're getting crushed.
Actually before 1.6, I had no trouble with AA. It takes a bit of experimenting but you can learn how to use it against them and avoid the majority of their fire. |
Niuvo
NECROM0NGERS
737
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Posted - 2013.11.07 18:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Laurent, are you going to be our scout representative? |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
320
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote: I wasnt aware of the thing you're bringing up in 2. And i dont get why it even exists. I can understand for Turrets as they need to be able to scan the area to fire at enemies. But perfect precision ? Hell that's weird. I'll remember that.
As for other installations\objectives. Why would they spot anything ?
Now regarding 1. I dont think even a proto scout should be able to natively dodge a proto scanner. Actually, i'd say they should depending on the circumstances. Just like weapons have absolute range and effective range, i'd love the scanners to have a similar fall off system. Meaning that the radius of the scan may be 100m and 60-¦. But the precision of the scan should decrease over distance and edges of the angle.
There you'd have balance. A proto scout without supplemental profile dampener would dodge the proto scanner if not caught up at say less than 30m and directly facing the scanner. And a total sneaky scout would add a dampener and only be spotted when scanned at 10M for example. .
Im not 100% on their radius, but take a look next time you defend an objective, you will alway see red dots coming and going.
Why would a scout need to add a dampener to his suit to evade a scanner? I think for true balance you need to have a counter. Then a counter to that counter. A counter to that counter etc. We already have a proto scanner that is "focused" but its only proto level.
Example for better balance, scout level scanned up to: Std - Scout II Std "focused" - Scout III Adv scanner - Scout III Adv "focused" - Scout IV Proto - Scout IV Proto "focused" - Scout V
I would like it if scanners couldnt just sweep in a 360 and get a good scan rate. Right now the degrees of scan is useless. I worry about the complexity of the system you described, but I like it, however we cant even get grenades to have a % based explosion.
thanks for the discussion
PHI Recruitment
or PHIsh Tank in game
Twitch
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Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
356
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:
- Fastest of all suits => Also the case. But not enough considering damage output \ HD \ aim assist.
Certainly, "not enough". However, I want to point out, that it is not really true at all, in any meaningful way, for gallente scouts.
Minmatar ASSAULT suits have speed 5.3
Gallente scout suits have speed 5.5
That is a speed differential that is basically MEANINGLESS. Particularly when there is no way for a scout to increase walking speed, AND you can only hold your knives charged while walking.
I would suggest gallente scout have walk speed of 5.8, and minmatar get 6.
(leave light suit, where it is )
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Dominus Fatali
Nox Aeterna Security
624
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
I for one haven't seemed to be negatively impacted by the patch, as it helps with my preestablished play-style, and I love the new scan range (I have Gallente Scout V and Range Amp V). However, I can emphasize with my squishy brethren.
Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
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