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Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1080	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:12:00 - [1] - Quote CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4466	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:14:00 - [2] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: end of discussion. You heard him guys, I guess we're done discussing this. Never forget Level 4 Forum Warrior King of airborne swine.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1994	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:16:00 - [3] - Quote I don't know anyone who thinks they need removal. I'm supposed to put something here?
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1080	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:18:00 - [4] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: I don't know anyone who thinks they need removal. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118892&find=unread theres a handful of fools right there for you.... insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Cult of War 849	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:20:00 - [5] - Quote Agreed to a certain limit... But i feel BPO's are heavily saturated right now and there need to be a way to lower them. T2 BPO's in EVE were no where near as easy to get as BPO's are in Dust. I feel a Optional trade-in system to get rid of BPO's would help lower the amount of BPO's in stock. Trade in a milita BPO and get a 1 week active booster Trade in a standard BPO get a 2 week active booster or an omega. For the Empire! Member of ASS: Amarr Secret Service.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1080	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:22:00 - [6] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Agreed to a certain limit... But i feel BPO's are heavily saturated right now and there need to be a way to lower them. T2 BPO's in EVE were no where near as easy to get as BPO's are in Dust. I feel a Optional trade-in system to get rid of BPO's would help lower the amount of BPO's in stock. Trade in a milita BPO and get a 1 week active booster Trade in a standard BPO get a 2 week active booster or an omega. problem was solved when ccp removed them from the market.... now they are no longer easy to get. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4560	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:25:00 - [7] - Quote These BPOs are likely to have even less of an effect on the economy given that they're for dirt cheap items rather than expensive items. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 148	Posted - 2013.11.03 18:03:00 - [8] - Quote T2 BPOs were a good bit more game breaking than current BPOs. If you were smart enough to run some R&D agents in the beginning, you had a good chance to get an in-game item that could ensure that Eve became a free-to-play game for the rest of time. These were isk printing machines for the (at-the-time) most expensive ships in the game. Some of these items are so insanely good that you can still expect someone to pay the equivalent of $2,000+ (80 bil isk) for them. CCP left those in-game.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1085	Posted - 2013.11.03 18:14:00 - [9] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: T2 BPOs were a good bit more game breaking than current BPOs. If you were smart enough to run some R&D agents in the beginning, you had a good chance to get an in-game item that could ensure that Eve became a free-to-play game for the rest of time. These were isk printing machines for the (at-the-time) most expensive ships in the game. Some of these items are so insanely good that you can still expect someone to pay the equivalent of $2,000+ (80 bil isk) for them. CCP left those in-game. this is so true and why I believe dust bpos are harmless... our bpos will never be worth that kind of isk yet ccp kept t2 bpos in eve... and eve economy is just fine... insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 495	Posted - 2013.11.03 20:44:00 - [10] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Agreed to a certain limit... But i feel BPO's are heavily saturated right now and there need to be a way to lower them. T2 BPO's in EVE were no where near as easy to get as BPO's are in Dust. I feel a Optional trade-in system to get rid of BPO's would help lower the amount of BPO's in stock. Trade in a milita BPO and get a 1 week active booster Trade in a standard BPO get a 2 week active booster or an omega. problem was solved when ccp removed them from the market.... now they are no longer easy to get. I think the only one that's still available is the Blood Raider Saga in the Veteran pack,but that's going away in two days,that that will leave nothing. Seems pretty sneaky that the only BPO is in a $50 pack.I guess they figure that there's going to be some mad rush for players to spend 50 bucks just to get a POS LAV just because it's a blueprint.Sorry,but I'm much smarter at spending my real life money.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4908	Posted - 2013.11.03 21:03:00 - [11] - Quote @Viktor The market is only currently saturated with BPOs due to really small player base. As the player numbers grow, the percentage of players who own BPOs relative to the population with decrease accordingly. Therefore further reducing the economic impact of the BPOs. Again, no need to remove them, limit them, or change them in any way whatsoever. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 98	Posted - 2013.11.03 21:05:00 - [12] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Doesn't change the fact that BPOs in Dust are nothing like Eve ones, exactly what am I using to make all these suits and LAV's. They are literally manufactured by toons with no skill to do so, using no resources. They may be tied to characters, but they still don't make any sense. You can say all you want about they T2 still required resources, they can still be copied be we can also make copies of them now too so who cares. I don't care if they stay in but I would at least like them to make sense in the larger scale of the game... Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1096	Posted - 2013.11.03 21:14:00 - [13] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Doesn't change the fact that BPOs in Dust are nothing like Eve ones, exactly what am I using to make all these suits and LAV's. They are literally manufactured by toons with no skill to do so, using no resources. They may be tied to characters, but they still don't make any sense. You can say all you want about T2 they still required resources, they can still be copied be we can also make copies of them now too so who cares. I don't care if they stay in but I would at least like them to make sense in the larger scale of the game... my point is most people who don't like dust bpos sight an economic impact.... the fact is they wont have ANY impact in the long term. eve t2 bpos had tremendous impact at first and still do for a very lucky few but the eve economy is still intact.... dust bpos cant even compare to this, so why remove them.... the only real answer ive heard so far is "because I don't like them" and that's just not good enough for those of us who payed real $$for them. but ill compromise with you.... ccp can remove/change them if the people like you who call for their removal pay us back our money. fair? insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2013.11.03 21:58:00 - [14] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Doesn't change the fact that BPOs in Dust are nothing like Eve ones, exactly what am I using to make all these suits and LAV's. They are literally manufactured by toons with no skill to do so, using no resources. They may be tied to characters, but they still don't make any sense. You can say all you want about T2 they still required resources, they can still be copied but we can also make copies of them now too so who cares. I don't care if they stay in but I would at least like them to make sense in the larger scale of the game... Your right, eve BPOs were given out for free in a subscription model game, Dust BPOs were paid items that were bought for real life money. Anyway, the argument that they have a economic impact is laughable compared to what T2 BPOs have done and continue to do to Eve.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3789	Posted - 2013.11.03 22:04:00 - [15] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Well, more accurately, their impact in fights may be minimal, but their impacts on anyone who sells them will be massive. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1098	Posted - 2013.11.03 22:19:00 - [16] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Well, more accurately, their impact in fights may be minimal, but their impacts on anyone who sells them will be massive. but there are a fixed amount, so it wont impact the greater community (once this community starts growing) and unlike t2 bpos I can sell a dust bpo once... if I had a t2 bpo I can make an unlimited amount of copies and items to sell forever. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 812	Posted - 2013.11.03 22:20:00 - [17] - Quote I don't know if I think they need to be removed. I would like that they become eve-bpo's for those suits so I can produce them.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1098	Posted - 2013.11.03 22:25:00 - [18] - Quote low genius wrote: I don't know if I think they need to be removed. I would like that they become eve-bpo's for those suits so I can produce them. but that's not what I bought.... if they want to make something like that, fine... but don't change what I already bought unless I get my money back. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 568	Posted - 2013.11.03 22:55:00 - [19] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: but don't change what I already bought Even though I agreed to the terms and conditions that said they can.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1098	Posted - 2013.11.03 23:57:00 - [20] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: but don't change what I already bought Even though I agreed to the terms and conditions that said they can. 1st off... I bought it off the playstation store out of game, so the EULA arguably doesn't apply but, if it does it would be like buying a 30 day plex and then the next day them changing it to a 10 day plex... could they do it? I honestly don't know the legalities of that but I would say at most least its bad business. EULA isn't a rip off your consumers immunity, I can imagine if it became that, no one would buy anything from that company and quite possibly it could put them out of business in law suit fees. heres the thing, regardless if they can do it we as the community must not condone it if only to protect ourselves... you may not like bpos but consider that many paid money for them and if simply because you don't like them you urge ccp to change them, it opens the door for them to change or remove something you did pay for and do care about.... insert witty or profound statement here _______.

Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:33:00 - [21] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: but don't change what I already bought Even though I agreed to the terms and conditions that said they can. You know a EULA can not make you give up your actual legal rights don't you? Just do a google search for judges throwing out EULAs. What you claim is that if I bought lets say, The Last of Us DLC, and then Sony suddenly changed their mind and removed that DLC, that would be cool? Seriously, stop crying. People payed real life money for a product advertised as a PERMANENT ITEM that doesn't go away when you die. Blame CCP for thier short-sightedness not the people who payed money to help keep this free game free.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1099	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:52:00 - [22] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: but don't change what I already bought Even though I agreed to the terms and conditions that said they can. You know a EULA can not make you give up your actual legal rights don't you? Just do a google search for judges throwing out EULAs. What you claim is that if I bought lets say, The Last of Us DLC, and then Sony suddenly changed their mind and removed that DLC, that would be cool? Seriously, stop crying. People payed real life money for a product advertised as a PERMANENT ITEM that doesn't go away when you die. Blame CCP for thier short-sightedness not the people who payed money to help keep this free game free. I only wish I could like this comment 1000 times.... no! I wish there was a love button! because I love this post! CCP, give us a love button insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1008	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:52:00 - [23] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Well, more accurately, their impact in fights may be minimal, but their impacts on anyone who sells them will be massive. but there are a fixed amount, so it wont impact the greater community (once this community starts growing) and unlike t2 bpos I can sell a dust bpo once... if I had a t2 bpo I can make an unlimited amount of copies and items to sell forever. You are assuming that we will never get a Bill of Materials for our BPOs. If that happens, CCP either needs to rerelease BPOs to the market or there will be a small cabal of early adopters that will dominate the market. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1099	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:58:00 - [24] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Well, more accurately, their impact in fights may be minimal, but their impacts on anyone who sells them will be massive. but there are a fixed amount, so it wont impact the greater community (once this community starts growing) and unlike t2 bpos I can sell a dust bpo once... if I had a t2 bpo I can make an unlimited amount of copies and items to sell forever. You are assuming that we will never get a Bill of Materials for our BPOs. If that happens, CCP either needs to rerelease BPOs to the market or there will be a small cabal of early adopters that will dominate the market. no, its not an assumption.... when I bought them it didn't say anywhere, ever, that I "may" get a bill of mats.... I didn't buy an item with actual cash that said I "might" have a bill of mats attached at some far flung date in one possible future.... I bought an item that stated clearly would "not be consumed" that was "permanent" and had no other strings attached. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1008	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:02:00 - [25] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Well, more accurately, their impact in fights may be minimal, but their impacts on anyone who sells them will be massive. but there are a fixed amount, so it wont impact the greater community (once this community starts growing) and unlike t2 bpos I can sell a dust bpo once... if I had a t2 bpo I can make an unlimited amount of copies and items to sell forever. You are assuming that we will never get a Bill of Materials for our BPOs. If that happens, CCP either needs to rerelease BPOs to the market or there will be a small cabal of early adopters that will dominate the market. no, its not an assumption.... when I bought them it didn't say anywhere, ever, that I "may" get a bill of mats.... I didn't buy an item with actual cash that said I "might" have a bill of mats attached at some far flung date in one possible future.... I bought an item that stated clearly would "not be consumed" that was "permanent" and had no other strings attached. I have a complete set of BPO's, I don't remember seeing anything about "no strings attached" a bill of materials would lend consistency too, it is already a precedent set in New Eden. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1101	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:07:00 - [26] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Well, more accurately, their impact in fights may be minimal, but their impacts on anyone who sells them will be massive. but there are a fixed amount, so it wont impact the greater community (once this community starts growing) and unlike t2 bpos I can sell a dust bpo once... if I had a t2 bpo I can make an unlimited amount of copies and items to sell forever. You are assuming that we will never get a Bill of Materials for our BPOs. If that happens, CCP either needs to rerelease BPOs to the market or there will be a small cabal of early adopters that will dominate the market. no, its not an assumption.... when I bought them it didn't say anywhere, ever, that I "may" get a bill of mats.... I didn't buy an item with actual cash that said I "might" have a bill of mats attached at some far flung date in one possible future.... I bought an item that stated clearly would "not be consumed" that was "permanent" and had no other strings attached. I have a complete set of BPO's, I don't remember seeing anything about "no strings attached" a bill of materials would lend consistency too, it is already a precedent set in New Eden. the no strings attached was apparent because there were no strings attached.... the description told you all of what you were buying....it didn't include a bill of materials. or possible removal from game. or any change from the description. no strings attached. now youre just arguing for the sake of it. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 579	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:18:00 - [27] - Quote Yep BPOs do need to be removed, the fact that people with millions and billions of ISK aren't paying the 5-20k it would take to restock the suits is definitely game-breaking and will no doubt be a huge hit to the player market. Also, we shouldn't give good thank you gifts to people who help pay CCP's bills, but instead just give them an active booster that lets them reach the weekly cap faster even though it's a cap so there would be no additional SP gain at all if you normally cap out every week like 90% of the playerbase. Revive Repair Resupply & Team Spawn (It's what I do)
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1009	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:18:00 - [28] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: but there are a fixed amount, so it wont impact the greater community (once this community starts growing) and unlike t2 bpos I can sell a dust bpo once... if I had a t2 bpo I can make an unlimited amount of copies and items to sell forever. You are assuming that we will never get a Bill of Materials for our BPOs. If that happens, CCP either needs to rerelease BPOs to the market or there will be a small cabal of early adopters that will dominate the market. no, its not an assumption.... when I bought them it didn't say anywhere, ever, that I "may" get a bill of mats.... I didn't buy an item with actual cash that said I "might" have a bill of mats attached at some far flung date in one possible future.... I bought an item that stated clearly would "not be consumed" that was "permanent" and had no other strings attached. I have a complete set of BPO's, I don't remember seeing anything about "no strings attached" a bill of materials would lend consistency too, it is already a precedent set in New Eden. the no strings attached was apparent because there were no strings attached.... the description told you all of what you were buying....it didn't include a bill of materials. or possible removal from game. or any change from the description. no strings attached. now youre just arguing for the sake of it. No, actually I'm not, I've been arguing for the inclusion of a bill of materials since day one. It only makes sense since BPOs in Eve have them, they are both set in the same setting so consistency demands a Bill of Materials no matter how badly you want your lazy, easymode option. If they decide that it should be the other way, I'm fine with that too, I'll take my free battleships and capitals. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1104	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:30:00 - [29] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: no, its not an assumption.... when I bought them it didn't say anywhere, ever, that I "may" get a bill of mats.... I didn't buy an item with actual cash that said I "might" have a bill of mats attached at some far flung date in one possible future.... I bought an item that stated clearly would "not be consumed" that was "permanent" and had no other strings attached. I have a complete set of BPO's, I don't remember seeing anything about "no strings attached" a bill of materials would lend consistency too, it is already a precedent set in New Eden. the no strings attached was apparent because there were no strings attached.... the description told you all of what you were buying....it didn't include a bill of materials. or possible removal from game. or any change from the description. no strings attached. now youre just arguing for the sake of it. No, actually I'm not, I've been arguing for the inclusion of a bill of materials since day one. It only makes sense since BPOs in Eve have them, they are both set in the same setting so consistency demands a Bill of Materials no matter how badly you want your lazy, easymode option. If they decide that it should be the other way, I'm fine with that too, I'll take my free battleships and capitals. lol, the fact you fought for this has no bearing on what I agreed to purchase or what ccp sold me ( they obviously weren't listening to you then...) yes it does make sense and I am totally for an industrial aspect to dust, but not with these particular bpos, because that's not what I bought, nothing less than a full cash refund justifies their change. its not laziness... that's a ridiculous notion; I PAYED FOR THIS! bottom line. as far as adding industry to dust, that wont work for years yet, because no dust merc can compete with an exhumer for materials, so making these bpos cost materials to manufacture would be a slap in the face... now I'd have to buy materials from some eve pilot who makes more isk in an hour than a merc does in a week, or if you don't have an eve account you'd have to buy one (15$ a month) to support the industry on your merc in a free to play game.... its just a logistical nightmare at this stage of dust's development.... you are very short sighted. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 154	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:30:00 - [30] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I have a complete set of BPO's, I don't remember seeing anything about "no strings attached" a bill of materials would lend consistency too, it is already a precedent set in New Eden. CCP wrote: These EVE: The Second Decade Collector's Edition Items are permanent gear, requiring no restocking or replacement. From here in reference to the BPOs from the second decade edition. So what lies were you trying to perpetrate again? No RESTOCKING OR REPLACEMENT

Cass Caul Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 225	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:48:00 - [31] - Quote I think the best part about this argument is, that the people that have multiples of BPOs are also the people that roll out in full proto for every pub match.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1011	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:53:00 - [32] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I have a complete set of BPO's, I don't remember seeing anything about "no strings attached" a bill of materials would lend consistency too, it is already a precedent set in New Eden. CCP wrote: These EVE: The Second Decade Collector's Edition Items are permanent gear, requiring no restocking or replacement. From here in reference to the BPOs from the second decade edition. So what lies were you trying to perpetrate again? No RESTOCKING OR REPLACEMENT Here is an excerpt from their manual CCP's Dust manual wrote: Blueprints are inexhaustible. They will never deplete. CCP's Dust manual wrote: Blue highlighted slots indicate blueprint items, which have unlimited uses and will never need to be restocked. Found here Just because the BPO has a Bill of Materials, does not mean it isn't inexhaustible. You never lose the BPO, you simply need to feed it with the right stuff to make more of the item. Never need to restock the BPO unless you want to run more concurrent manufacturing lines. BPOs by nature are inexhaustible, otherwise they would be BPCs. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1108	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:55:00 - [33] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: I think the best part about this argument is, that the people that have multiples of BPOs are also the people that roll out in full proto for every pub match. I can do this ... and have... but I love my bpo fits too insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1108	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:58:00 - [34] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: CCP wrote: These EVE: The Second Decade Collector's Edition Items are permanent gear, requiring no restocking or replacement. From here in reference to the BPOs from the second decade edition. So what lies were you trying to perpetrate again? No RESTOCKING OR REPLACEMENT Here is an excerpt from their manual CCP's Dust manual wrote: Blueprints are inexhaustible. They will never deplete. CCP's Dust manual wrote: Blue highlighted slots indicate blueprint items, which have unlimited uses and will never need to be restocked. Found here Just because the BPO has a Bill of Materials, does not mean it isn't inexhaustible. You never lose the BPO, you simply need to feed it with the right stuff to make more of the item. Never need to restock the BPO unless you want to run more concurrent manufacturing lines. BPOs by nature are inexhaustible, otherwise they would be BPCs. and you still don't address the issue of my previous post about how is a dust merc gonna get these materials, or how that's fair to the people who paid for an item that made no mention of needing materials to make. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Cass Caul Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 225	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:03:00 - [35] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Cass Caul wrote: I think the best part about this argument is, that the people that have multiples of BPOs are also the people that roll out in full proto for every pub match. I can do this ... and have... but I love my bpo fits too lol, I know. I got new Templar gear that I'm loving. and the Toxin AR. I've got a Proto Scout and two Advanced Logi suits, but no points in Assault suits. So I use the my 3 Assault suits to pretend I'm a front-line fighter. But if I squad up and I don't run my proto gear I won't get any kills because my squad-mates are running proto and taking all the kills But the dude talking about bill of materials, the lore of game doesn't need it. We're mercenaries. We're being funded by our employers to kill ****, so they foot the supply bill. We just have fittings we want printed from nano-tech construction inside the MCC and Supply Depots
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1012	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:09:00 - [36] - Quote Simple, to the first question, do not add the Bill of Materials until mindnumbing PvE resource gathering is included. Second, IDK what world you live in, but where I am from, life isn't fair, SIUB. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 81	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:13:00 - [37] - Quote The removal of BPOs is good for the growth of the game. Currently payouts in pub matches are based on ISK lost meaning BPOS are making it tough for new players to move up the ladder without running out of ISK due to ****** payouts in pub matches. Sure, I would rather not see them go either but as long as they dont fux with the ones in my inventory then I am fine with it. As new players who do not have BPOs move into the game ISK payouts in pub matches will grow making it easier for those same players to level up to better equipment leading to more useful salvage as well. Making players more likely to want to get to higher equipment is good for us and good for CCP. And as far as the math of it not hurting the economy, lets say a player running a dragonfly suit and toxin AR dies 10 times. With the BPOs he loses 35k isk thanks to the basic modules and side arms in those 10 deaths. Without BPOs that number could easily be 70k isk in those 10 deaths. Take 10 total players in a pub match that average out to those numbers and automatically you have 350k more isk in the prize pool at the end of the match. That can easily mean 30k more isk per match for the top 5 players on a team who then have that money to buy one more advanced suit per match, which then grows the isk pool even more until the point where even the players at the bottom of the losing team are seeing significant increases in their payouts.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 884	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:23:00 - [38] - Quote BPOs are militia and standard grade gear and thus are not competitive with advanced or prototype gear. Sure, you can stomp in them. If you fitted higher level gear, you'd stomp even easier. It's not like militia and standard gear is expensive, if you want to run it to save ISK. The only advantage to running BPOs is saving ISK. That's it. If you use all militia gear, your suit might cost 5-7k. Maybe 10k as a logistics. If you die 3 times in an Ambush, which is the average when your team loses in a 50 clone fight, you would've lost 15-30k in gear. It's not a lot of loses and not worth paying a lot of ISK to mitigate when you can just buy copies of the gear. Really, I would only ever buy BPOs of things I fit multiple of on a suit, since that multiplies the savings, such as armor plates. I'd still only pay a couple million ISK for such a BPO, because I'm still only saving 1-2k ISK a life. LAV BPOs are obviously worth a lot more. Things like weapons aren't worth it most of the time, once they hit tens of millions. Of course, if you resell for the same price, which isn't very difficult, then you mitigate the investment and turn a pure profit. At that point, they are obviously worth it at any price you can afford to pay as long as you can sell it to someone else. Really, I don't think they would make the market implode or anything. BPOs right now will make themselves rare by the fact that no more are being sold. Some of the players with them won't be playing years from now. Many of the rest will find permanent homes with collectors. A small amount will be left floating around and a couple hundred players will have a few million spare ISK from their gear cost savings. It's not a big deal. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 884	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:31:00 - [39] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: The removal of BPOs is good for the growth of the game. Currently payouts in pub matches are based on ISK lost meaning BPOS are making it tough for new players to move up the ladder without running out of ISK due to ****** payouts in pub matches. Sure, I would rather not see them go either but as long as they dont fux with the ones in my inventory then I am fine with it. As new players who do not have BPOs move into the game ISK payouts in pub matches will grow making it easier for those same players to level up to better equipment leading to more useful salvage as well. Making players more likely to want to get to higher equipment is good for us and good for CCP. And as far as the math of it not hurting the economy, lets say a player running a dragonfly suit and toxin AR dies 10 times. With the BPOs he loses 35k isk thanks to the basic modules and side arms in those 10 deaths. Without BPOs that number could easily be 70k isk in those 10 deaths. Take 10 total players in a pub match that average out to those numbers and automatically you have 350k more isk in the prize pool at the end of the match. That can easily mean 30k more isk per match for the top 5 players on a team who then have that money to buy one more advanced suit per match, which then grows the isk pool even more until the point where even the players at the bottom of the losing team are seeing significant increases in their payouts. If 30% of the players are running full BPO and dieing several times, I don't know what to say. That's not what I'm seeing. Even if I did, I would enjoy running real gear and stomping the crap out of them. I wish the whole enemy team ran nothing but BPOs. No more Duvolles with Complex Damage Modifiers? No more Thales and Charge Sniper Rifles? There go 85% of my deaths, thus I'm saving money anyway. Also, there's a solution. The value lost and added to the pot when a BPO is "lost," so to speak, can be made the same as the item it's based off of. Died using a militia dampener? Add 585 ISK to the pot. Died using a militia dampener BPO? Add 585 ISK to the pot. Not seeing any problems that cannot be solved easily. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1109	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:33:00 - [40] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: The removal of BPOs is good for the growth of the game. Currently payouts in pub matches are based on ISK lost meaning BPOS are making it tough for new players to move up the ladder without running out of ISK due to **** payouts in pub matches. Sure, I would rather not see them go either but as long as they dont fux with the ones in my inventory then I am fine with it. As new players who do not have BPOs move into the game ISK payouts in pub matches will grow making it easier for those same players to level up to better equipment leading to more useful salvage as well. Making players more likely to want to get to higher equipment is good for us and good for CCP. And as far as the math of it not hurting the economy, lets say a player running a dragonfly suit and toxin AR dies 10 times. With the BPOs he loses 35k isk thanks to the basic modules and side arms in those 10 deaths. Without BPOs that number could easily be 70k isk in those 10 deaths. Take 10 total players in a pub match that average out to those numbers and automatically you have 350k more isk in the prize pool at the end of the match. That can easily mean 30k more isk per match for the top 5 players on a team who then have that money to buy one more advanced suit per match, which then grows the isk pool even more until the point where even the players at the bottom of the losing team are seeing significant increases in their payouts. lol @ good for growth of the game... I have almost every bpo... I still spend about 30 mil a week on fits because none of them are adv or proto. your logic is shot down. insert witty or profound statement here _______**.

Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 98	Posted - 2013.11.04 05:08:00 - [41] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Kal Kronos wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Doesn't change the fact that BPOs in Dust are nothing like Eve ones, exactly what am I using to make all these suits and LAV's. They are literally manufactured by toons with no skill to do so, using no resources. They may be tied to characters, but they still don't make any sense. You can say all you want about T2 they still required resources, they can still be copied be we can also make copies of them now too so who cares. I don't care if they stay in but I would at least like them to make sense in the larger scale of the game... my point is most people who don't like dust bpos sight an economic impact.... the fact is they wont have ANY impact in the long term. eve t2 bpos had tremendous impact at first and still do for a very lucky few but the eve economy is still intact.... dust bpos cant even compare to this, so why remove them.... the only real answer ive heard so far is "because I don't like them" and that's just not good enough for those of us who payed real $$for them. but ill compromise with you.... ccp can remove/change them if the people like you who call for their removal pay us back our money. fair? Well I didn't use an economic argument, I stated they don't fit consistently in the EVE universe. Now please enlighten me as to how they do, without shouting "because I ***** paid for them and thats how they should stay". I also support full aurum refund for all items when they are eventually are removed, because I ***** paid for them lol. I just want consistency in the universe, not to rob you of items. Now here is my prediction, ALL ITEMS WILL BE LOCKED TO CHARACTERS ONCE P2P MARKET IS OPEN. This is the only way we can eventually merge the markets. We cannot have one BPO that does one thing, and another that does the same thing but has no material cost if used by a Dust toon. So abandon all your hope of making a ton of isk by selling your BPO's, as I assume this is why you don't want to see them removed, that isn't going to happen per my prediction. Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 81	Posted - 2013.11.04 05:29:00 - [42] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: lol @ good for growth of the game... I have almost every bpo... I still spend about 30 mil a week on fits because none of them are adv or proto. your logic is shot down. You are the only player of this game, therefore my logic does not work. Thanks for the correction, I always forget to account for that one guy the universe I live in revolves around when talking.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1112	Posted - 2013.11.04 05:50:00 - [43] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Kal Kronos wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Doesn't change the fact that BPOs in Dust are nothing like Eve ones, exactly what am I using to make all these suits and LAV's. They are literally manufactured by toons with no skill to do so, using no resources. They may be tied to characters, but they still don't make any sense. You can say all you want about T2 they still required resources, they can still be copied be we can also make copies of them now too so who cares. I don't care if they stay in but I would at least like them to make sense in the larger scale of the game... my point is most people who don't like dust bpos sight an economic impact.... the fact is they wont have ANY impact in the long term. eve t2 bpos had tremendous impact at first and still do for a very lucky few but the eve economy is still intact.... dust bpos cant even compare to this, so why remove them.... the only real answer ive heard so far is "because I don't like them" and that's just not good enough for those of us who payed real $$for them. but ill compromise with you.... ccp can remove/change them if the people like you who call for their removal pay us back our money. fair? Well I didn't use an economic argument, I stated they don't fit consistently in the EVE universe. Now please enlighten me as to how they do, without shouting "because I ***** paid for them and thats how they should stay". I also support full aurum refund for all items when they are eventually are removed, because I *** paid for them lol. I just want consistency in the universe, not to rob you of items. Now here is my prediction, ALL ITEMS WILL BE LOCKED TO CHARACTERS ONCE P2P MARKET IS OPEN. This is the only way we can eventually merge the markets. We cannot have one BPO that does one thing, and another that does the same thing but has no material cost if used by a Dust toon. So abandon all your hope of making a ton of isk by selling your BPO's, as I assume this is why you don't want to see them removed, that isn't going to happen per my prediction. lol its easy how they fit in the universe... ccp put them there... now they fit.... explain to me how with over 5000 planets they all seem to have the same small battlefields and why there are red lines that can kill you... explain to me why none of these planets have trees or water.... explain to me why heavies cant jump over a 1 inch ledge... explain to me how my rifle has more damage because I read a book 5 times...hell didn't even read it I just put magical sp points into it... explain how that makes sense... explain to me how my lav goes into a physics defying role when I hit an invisible bump in the road.... get over yourself and your lore BS... I like lore to... but I PAID FOR THESE THINGS! insert witty or profound statement here _______**.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1112	Posted - 2013.11.04 05:51:00 - [44] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: lol @ good for growth of the game... I have almost every bpo... I still spend about 30 mil a week on fits because none of them are adv or proto. your logic is shot down. You are the only player of this game, therefore my logic does not work. Thanks for the correction, I always forget to account for that one guy the universe I live in revolves around when talking. good! apology accepted. consider yourself schooled.... now get off my lawn! insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 159	Posted - 2013.11.04 05:56:00 - [45] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Kal Kronos wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: CCP already said we are keeping the ones we own. but to clarify why the ones people own can stay, learn about T2 BPOs in EVE you will then understand why our BPOs can remain untouched without it effecting the greater economy of new eden. years from now only a handful of people will own them and their impact will be minimal. end of discussion. Doesn't change the fact that BPOs in Dust are nothing like Eve ones, exactly what am I using to make all these suits and LAV's. They are literally manufactured by toons with no skill to do so, using no resources. They may be tied to characters, but they still don't make any sense. You can say all you want about T2 they still required resources, they can still be copied be we can also make copies of them now too so who cares. I don't care if they stay in but I would at least like them to make sense in the larger scale of the game... my point is most people who don't like dust bpos sight an economic impact.... the fact is they wont have ANY impact in the long term. eve t2 bpos had tremendous impact at first and still do for a very lucky few but the eve economy is still intact.... dust bpos cant even compare to this, so why remove them.... the only real answer ive heard so far is "because I don't like them" and that's just not good enough for those of us who payed real $$for them. but ill compromise with you.... ccp can remove/change them if the people like you who call for their removal pay us back our money. fair? Well I didn't use an economic argument, I stated they don't fit consistently in the EVE universe. Now please enlighten me as to how they do, without shouting "because I ***** paid for them and thats how they should stay". I also support full aurum refund for all items when they are eventually are removed, because I ***** paid for them lol. I just want consistency in the universe, not to rob you of items. Now here is my prediction, ALL ITEMS WILL BE LOCKED TO CHARACTERS ONCE P2P MARKET IS OPEN. This is the only way we can eventually merge the markets. We cannot have one BPO that does one thing, and another that does the same thing but has no material cost if used by a Dust toon. So abandon all your hope of making a ton of isk by selling your BPO's, as I assume this is why you don't want to see them removed, that isn't going to happen per my prediction. Personally, I am just fine with locking BPOs to characters. I do not recall CCP ever saying that there would be a BPO market, so I would not be that pissed. For the record I have 3x assualt C-1 and 3x AR BPOs and 2x Sentinel A-1 BPOs... so it is not like I do not have a horse in that race.


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