I as a shield and armor user feel shields are kind of pointless a basic armor plate gives more armor then a complex shield extender for barely any movement penalty, much less cpu requirements, and much less pg requirements. And now there are more options while they are not the most ideal (ferroscale and reactive plates) but they are still an option. No class really gets hurt from the movement penalty on plates unless you are trying to get the most speed and then you can just switch to ferroscale. Getting a good shield amount is pretty difficult unless you are a caldari on minmitar assault so here is my suggestion.

Make another type of infantry shield extender for the high slot:

This shield extender would be better for example basic would give 33 shield, enhanced 66, and complex 99 along with the 2% efficiency from the shield extender skill. However the con would be higher cpu and pg requirements and that each extender equipped will lower your shield recharge time and depleted shield recharge time.

Example:

complex shield extender
99 shield
-10% shield recharge delay
-10% depleted shield recharge delay

This would allow shield tankers to get more shield but also give them a penalty for equipping these type of shields because honestly isn't this what armor tankers already have? Shield extenders at the moment are pretty much like ferroscale plates these new shield extender would be more like basic plates, giving more but at a cost.

Sorry for the bad typing but hope yall liked the idea numbers aren't official just a starting point.

My planned ADV Assault...

comes out

300/
192hp

Enhanced extender/Basic Shield Recharger/Enhanced Light Dmg

Enhanced Reactive Plates/Militia Armor Repair

do i really need a Shield Regulator? hmm...
Any suggestions?

basic shield extenders should be 33hp and advanced 50 hp prototype are the correct value

QFT, shield extenders should scale in the same percentages as armor across tiers.
Also shields don't need a buff.

Yeah they do, just not extenders. 1.4 made recharge and regulation modules useless since TTK is so short.

Yeah they do, just not extenders. 1.4 made recharge and regulation modules useless since TTK is so short.

Shields regen by themselves. When you slap an extender on your suit it's like a combination of a ferroscale & reactive armour plate without their terrible stats & high fitting cost.

Oh & energizers are awesome.

QFT, shield extenders should scale in the same percentages as armor across tiers.
Also shields don't need a buff.

That's a lie . Advanced is TWICE the computer and programming usage but NOT twice the shield output . It SHOULD be 44 if the numbers were correct . There is NO middle ground with it being 22 , 33 , 66 and there is no middle ground . THEY NEED TO BE CHANGED AND THE NUMBERS SHOULD BE MORE BALANCED .

Well I don't use advanced extenders so it's not going to help me.

So, let's have a look at the numbers this gives us.
Assuming new complex shields are 99 HP:

Caldari Assault, new shields

Duvolle Assault Rifle
M209 Assault Submachine Gun
Core Locus Grenade

Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Damage Modifier

Complex Shield Regulator
Complex Shield Regulator
Complex CPU Upgrade

X-3 Quantum Nanohive

With skills and the Caldari assault bonus, each shield extender gives 120 HP (99*1.10*1.10). We have three of these, so 360 HP. The base shields are 262 (with skills), the normal shield delay with this fitting is 2.76/4.41 and the normal recharge rate is 31.25 HP/s.

We end up with 360+262 = 622 shield HP. This does, however, penalise the shield recharge and shield delay by ~30%.

(2.76/4.41*1.10*1.10*1.10) = 3.67/5.86 seconds shield recharge delay.
(31.25*0.90*0.90*0.90) = 22.78 shield HP/s when recharging.

There is no movement penalty, so it moves at 5/7.35.


Let's look at a comparable Gallente assault.

GEK-38 Assault Rifle
Submachine Gun
M1 Locus Grenade

Enhanced Light Damage Modifier
Enhanced Light Damage Modifier
Complex Light Damage Modifier

Complex Armour Repairer
Complex Armour Repairer
Enhanced Armour Plates
Enhanced Armour Plates

X-3 Quantum Nanohive

The weapons had to be downgraded because otherwise they would not fit. This is, however, compensated for by the better damage modifiers, so we can consider that department approximately equal (though it still loses out on the grenades and SMG).

This gets 532 armour and 12.5 HP/s regen, albeit with no delay. The movement speed is 4.64/6.82.

Let's compare this to the shield tanked suit.

HP: 622 vs 532 = Shields win handily
Regen: 22.78 vs 12.5 = Shields win with almost twice the regen
Recharge delay: Armour wins.
Speed: 5/7.35 vs 4.64/6.82 = Shields win.

Additionally, when comparing these fittings it should be noted that the Gallente assault uses an inferior grenade and an inferior SMG. The damage gap from the GEK-38 to the Duvolle is compensated for by the damage mods.

I suspect the natural response to this is to think that you can fit the Gallente assault better so that it isn't outclassed - if you think that, I invite you to provide an example where it is not inferior in most aspects.


Having looked at these numbers, I strongly disagree with your idea. This would not be balanced and would catapult shields back to the point where it is the de-facto superior tank. I agree that lower tier shield extenders could scale better, but what you have suggested here does not work and is fundamentally flawed as a suggestion that would homogenise the tank types at best and break the balance completely at worst.

Also not everyone runs Caldari and Gallente for shield and armor my Minmitar dual tanks and also gets a nice +5 to armor repair through it's logistic bonus. Also don't forget repair tools and repair nano hives can be used to repair the users and other players armor, people always forget to factor this in.

Also your not even mentioning how that Gallente suit has more damage mods so it's getting a damage buff.

Also based on armor regen times you might not be to far behind on armor regen considering recharge time is instant while shields will take 4 - 5 seconds to start back up considering the penalty.

Oh the irony of this post, seems like just yesterday we were talking about shields inherently being better than armor...oh the old days.

But it definitely seems like shields are weaker these days. TTK is so short that it is difficult to use any of the other shield mods.

That mixed with scanners has made slightly more mobility a near non factor because flanking is very difficult to do when you cannot escape them. One of the places where shields excelled is now moot.

It's because of aim assist really.

Dude you can't crunch numbers for something that doesn't even exist yet, I found all your calculations pointless and a hilarious waste of time. Like I said the numbers could be up for debate and how much the penalty is for the modules could also be discussed. Lastly not every suit has top powergrid, electronics, and core skills take in mind these new modules would have higher fitting requirements meaning they'd be harder to fit. Lastly not everyone uses your suggested fitting it is kind of of ridiculous that you based this entire thing on what you personally would fit. Lastly did you take in delay times like I said would be the penalty for equipping this module?

Could be something like:

basic: -10% shield recharge delay
enhanced -15% shield recharge delay
complex -20% shield recharge delay

Also not everyone runs Caldari and Gallente for shield and armor my Minmitar dual tanks and also gets a nice +5 to armor repair through it's logistic bonus. Also don't forget repair tools and repair nano hives can be used to repair the users and other players armor, people always forget to factor this in.

Also your not even mentioning how that Gallente suit has more damage mods so it's getting a damage buff.

Also based on armor regen times you might not be to far behind on armor regen considering recharge time is instant while shields will take 4 - 5 seconds to start back up considering the penalty.

So, let's have a look at the numbers this gives us.
Assuming new complex shields are 99 HP:

Caldari Assault, new shields

Duvolle Assault Rifle
M209 Assault Submachine Gun
Core Locus Grenade

Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Damage Modifier

Complex Shield Regulator
Complex Shield Regulator
Complex CPU Upgrade

X-3 Quantum Nanohive

With skills and the Caldari assault bonus, each shield extender gives 120 HP (99*1.10*1.10). We have three of these, so 360 HP. The base shields are 262 (with skills), the normal shield delay with this fitting is 2.76/4.41 and the normal recharge rate is 31.25 HP/s.

We end up with 360+262 = 622 shield HP. This does, however, penalise the shield recharge and shield delay by ~30%.

(2.76/4.41*1.10*1.10*1.10) = 3.67/5.86 seconds shield recharge delay.
(31.25*0.90*0.90*0.90) = 22.78 shield HP/s when recharging.

There is no movement penalty, so it moves at 5/7.35.


Let's look at a comparable Gallente assault.

GEK-38 Assault Rifle
Submachine Gun
M1 Locus Grenade

Enhanced Light Damage Modifier
Enhanced Light Damage Modifier
Complex Light Damage Modifier

Complex Armour Repairer
Complex Armour Repairer
Enhanced Armour Plates
Enhanced Armour Plates

X-3 Quantum Nanohive

The weapons had to be downgraded because otherwise they would not fit. This is, however, compensated for by the better damage modifiers, so we can consider that department approximately equal (though it still loses out on the grenades and SMG).

This gets 532 armour and 12.5 HP/s regen, albeit with no delay. The movement speed is 4.64/6.82.

Let's compare this to the shield tanked suit.

HP: 622 vs 532 = Shields win handily
Regen: 22.78 vs 12.5 = Shields win with almost twice the regen
Recharge delay: Armour wins.
Speed: 5/7.35 vs 4.64/6.82 = Shields win.

Additionally, when comparing these fittings it should be noted that the Gallente assault uses an inferior grenade and an inferior SMG. The damage gap from the GEK-38 to the Duvolle is compensated for by the damage mods.

I suspect the natural response to this is to think that you can fit the Gallente assault better so that it isn't outclassed - if you think that, I invite you to provide an example where it is not inferior in most aspects.


Having looked at these numbers, I strongly disagree with your idea. This would not be balanced and would catapult shields back to the point where it is the de-facto superior tank. I agree that lower tier shield extenders could scale better, but what you have suggested here does not work and is fundamentally flawed as a suggestion that would homogenise the tank types at best and break the balance completely at worst.

Neither shields nor armour are UP. They're equally broken. People just think the other is better because the grass is always greener on the other side. The problem with them both is that damage is way too high. Neither tankers can do what they're intended to do because they all die too quickly.

Can we refocus the rage and abhorrence for the type of tank we didn't choose into something a bit more positive? Say, campaigning to reducing all weapon damage by 10%?

The shield recharge is almost twice the armour recharge. Considering that the delay is all of a few seconds, the armour tanker would be overtaken by regen in under ten seconds.

I as a shield and armor user feel shields are kind of pointless a basic armor plate gives more armor then a complex shield extender for barely any movement penalty, much less cpu requirements, and much less pg requirements. And now there are more options while they are not the most ideal (ferroscale and reactive plates) but they are still an option. No class really gets hurt from the movement penalty on plates unless you are trying to get the most speed and then you can just switch to ferroscale. Getting a good shield amount is pretty difficult unless you are a caldari on minmitar assault so here is my suggestion.

Make another type of infantry shield extender for the high slot:

This shield extender would be better for example basic would give 33 shield, enhanced 66, and complex 99 along with the 2% efficiency from the shield extender skill. However the con would be higher cpu and pg requirements and that each extender equipped will lower your shield recharge time and depleted shield recharge time.

Example:

complex shield extender
99 shield
-10% shield recharge delay
-10% depleted shield recharge delay

This would allow shield tankers to get more shield but also give them a penalty for equipping these type of shields because honestly isn't this what armor tankers already have? Shield extenders at the moment are pretty much like ferroscale plates these new shield extender would be more like basic plates, giving more but at a cost.

Sorry for the bad typing but hope yall liked the idea numbers aren't official just a starting point.

Shields are a renewable resource: they replenish themselves.
Armour is a limited commodity: you must invest if you want to restore them, which is more than just slot intensive, it is also extra CPU/PG.

The Logistics role bonus is one of the reasons you see so many people running Logi-Assaults, besides the larger number of slots. Shields are a lower ceiling, but will come back naturally.

Shields purposely have low hp ceilings because they are meant to hit-and-run. Increasing the shield cap would make shields and armor the same. This would give less options to players on what type of mercenary they want to be.

My planned ADV Assault...

comes out

300/
192hp

Enhanced extender/Basic Shield Recharger/Enhanced Light Dmg

Enhanced Reactive Plates/Militia Armor Repair

do i really need a Shield Regulator? hmm...
Any suggestions?

So, let's have a look at the numbers this gives us.
Assuming new complex shields are 99 HP:

Caldari Assault, new shields

Duvolle Assault Rifle
M209 Assault Submachine Gun
Core Locus Grenade

Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Damage Modifier

Complex Shield Regulator
Complex Shield Regulator
Complex CPU Upgrade

X-3 Quantum Nanohive

With skills and the Caldari assault bonus, each shield extender gives 120 HP (99*1.10*1.10). We have three of these, so 360 HP. The base shields are 262 (with skills), the normal shield delay with this fitting is 2.76/4.41 and the normal recharge rate is 31.25 HP/s.

We end up with 360+262 = 622 shield HP. This does, however, penalise the shield recharge and shield delay by ~30%.

(2.76/4.41*1.10*1.10*1.10) = 3.67/5.86 seconds shield recharge delay.
(31.25*0.90*0.90*0.90) = 22.78 shield HP/s when recharging.

There is no movement penalty, so it moves at 5/7.35.


Let's look at a comparable Gallente assault.

GEK-38 Assault Rifle
Submachine Gun
M1 Locus Grenade

Enhanced Light Damage Modifier
Enhanced Light Damage Modifier
Complex Light Damage Modifier

Complex Armour Repairer
Complex Armour Repairer
Enhanced Armour Plates
Enhanced Armour Plates

X-3 Quantum Nanohive

The weapons had to be downgraded because otherwise they would not fit. This is, however, compensated for by the better damage modifiers, so we can consider that department approximately equal (though it still loses out on the grenades and SMG).

This gets 532 armour and 12.5 HP/s regen, albeit with no delay. The movement speed is 4.64/6.82.

Let's compare this to the shield tanked suit.

HP: 622 vs 532 = Shields win handily
Regen: 22.78 vs 12.5 = Shields win with almost twice the regen
Recharge delay: Armour wins.
Speed: 5/7.35 vs 4.64/6.82 = Shields win.

Additionally, when comparing these fittings it should be noted that the Gallente assault uses an inferior grenade and an inferior SMG. The damage gap from the GEK-38 to the Duvolle is compensated for by the damage mods.

I suspect the natural response to this is to think that you can fit the Gallente assault better so that it isn't outclassed - if you think that, I invite you to provide an example where it is not inferior in most aspects.


Having looked at these numbers, I strongly disagree with your idea. This would not be balanced and would catapult shields back to the point where it is the de-facto superior tank. I agree that lower tier shield extenders could scale better, but what you have suggested here does not work and is fundamentally flawed as a suggestion that would homogenise the tank types at best and break the balance completely at worst.

I as a shield and armor user feel shields are kind of pointless a basic armor plate gives more armor then a complex shield extender for barely any movement penalty, much less cpu requirements, and much less pg requirements. And now there are more options while they are not the most ideal (ferroscale and reactive plates) but they are still an option. No class really gets hurt from the movement penalty on plates unless you are trying to get the most speed and then you can just switch to ferroscale. Getting a good shield amount is pretty difficult unless you are a caldari on minmitar assault so here is my suggestion.

Make another type of infantry shield extender for the high slot:

This shield extender would be better for example basic would give 33 shield, enhanced 66, and complex 99 along with the 2% efficiency from the shield extender skill. However the con would be higher cpu and pg requirements and that each extender equipped will lower your shield recharge time and depleted shield recharge time.

Example:

complex shield extender
99 shield
-10% shield recharge delay
-10% depleted shield recharge delay

This would allow shield tankers to get more shield but also give them a penalty for equipping these type of shields because honestly isn't this what armor tankers already have? Shield extenders at the moment are pretty much like ferroscale plates these new shield extender would be more like basic plates, giving more but at a cost.

Sorry for the bad typing but hope yall liked the idea numbers aren't official just a starting point.

if you want super high ehp... go and armor tank. ive been enjoying the fact that the great majority of shield tankers think they should be stacking as many extenders as possible. if youre on the enemy team, keep doing it. it makes my life easy. if youre on my team, please dont. youre doing it wrong.

I must say their should be more shield mods.

Adding diversity never hurts it only increases the complexity.

Oh excuse me for being a slow ****** for having the same eHP as you and half the regen, so I could have more damage.
Yay trade offs.
P.S: Nobody uses complex plates, they are expensive CPU/PG wise and aren't much better than advanced plates.
P.S.S: Put a CPU extender in one of your low slots on your caldari suit, this allows you to create a mega powerful suit that beats the crap out of any Gallente suit.

This is false. Armor does get a mobility disadvantage but cmon it's 10-15% or less...definitely not super slow. Plus mobility means much less than it used to when you consider damage increases and AA.

Regen on armor tankers is FAR better than you think (see my post in this thread where I show this with stats), it's actually BETTER than shields in many cases. Plus alternate ways to heal means advantage armor (at least on par).

Seriously you want to talk about mod progression? Shields MUST use pro mods to even compete...they don't have a choice. They have to take the big PG/CPU hit that armor conveniently gets a choice to avoid.

CPU/PG enhancers, dampeners, hacking mods, range amps, biotics, regulators give shields their biggest advantage: versatility. Issue with this is opportunity cost ie they cannot equip it all at once. This means in whatever build you think shields defeat armor they've completely lost in most other situations. Armor gets a nice advantage because high damage tank is among the best builds in the game, it may lose to a specialized shield suit (in one situation) but is completely VERSATILE to most situations.