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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
229
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Posted - 2013.11.03 05:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Oh the irony of this post, seems like just yesterday we were talking about shields inherently being better than armor...oh the old days.
But it definitely seems like shields are weaker these days. TTK is so short that it is difficult to use any of the other shield mods.
That mixed with scanners has made slightly more mobility a near non factor because flanking is very difficult to do when you cannot escape them. One of the places where shields excelled is now moot. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
230
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Posted - 2013.11.03 06:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Eris Ernaga wrote:
It's because of aim assist really.
You're right, it's definitely a combination of all these this but aim assist undoubtedly shrunk TTK. Right now we are borderline twitch shooter. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
236
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Posted - 2013.11.04 14:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Melchiah ARANeAE wrote:Neither shields nor armour are UP. They're equally broken. People just think the other is better because the grass is always greener on the other side. The problem with them both is that damage is way too high. Neither tankers can do what they're intended to do because they all die too quickly.
Can we refocus the rage and abhorrence for the type of tank we didn't choose into something a bit more positive? Say, campaigning to reducing all weapon damage by 10%?
Right now shields are UP in the tanking department, armor blows in versatility (you're either a tank with dmg mods or a tank with precision enhancers...that's pretty much it.)
Issue being that both sides want a little what the other has, shields desperately want more tank and armor tankers probably want to experiment. I know as a shield tanker I'm willing to give up some mods for better extenders.
Reducing damage will go a long way to helping solve the problem but doesn't solve the issue completely. But would be nice to rise up to reduce damage.
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
236
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Posted - 2013.11.04 15:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Eris Ernaga wrote:
Also based on armor regen times you might not be to far behind on armor regen considering recharge time is instant while shields will take 4 - 5 seconds to start back up considering the penalty.
The shield recharge is almost twice the armour recharge. Considering that the delay is all of a few seconds, the armour tanker would be overtaken by regen in under ten seconds.
I want to point out the issue with this that is often overlooked (sure Arkena is rolling eyes cus we've been through it before). Armor gets inherent shield regen that aids their regens a lot.
Gal Assault gets 150 shields at max shield skills. Assuming 2 complex repairers armor reaches a regen of 12.5, plus Gal Assault shields regen rate of 25. Remember the shield delay for Gal is 10 (have to competely deplete shields to get to armor). So in 10 secs Gal Assaults regen 125 hp. For next 6 secs they regen at a rate of 37.5 (12.5 armor + 25 shields to the shield max of 150). So in 16 secs they regen a total of 350 hp. At 20 secs they have regened 400 hp. At 21 secs they have regened 412.5 hp. At 25 they regen 462.5 hp.
Compare this to Cal assault who has no inherent armor regen. Cal Assault has regen rate of 31.25 and delay of 8 secs from depletion. So in 8 secs they have regened 0 hp, in 10 secs they regen 62.5. At 16 secs they regen 250 hp. At 20 secs they regen 375 hp. At 21 secs they have regened 406.25 hp. At 25 secs they regen 531.25 hp. Anything they lost in armor is lost for good without help.
Point being is that the regen argument does not favor shields as greatly as one thinks. It's a whopping 21 secs before they actually get an advantage. This doesn't even account for armors other ways to heal. Also in Logi debate shields are completely crushed because regen rates are much more similar. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
236
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Posted - 2013.11.04 23:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ralden Caster wrote:
Shields purposely have low hp ceilings because they are meant to hit-and-run. Increasing the shield cap would make shields and armor the same. This would give less options to players on what type of mercenary they want to be.
Issue with this (I'm ignoring proposed changes for a moment) is that there is no hit and run. TTK is very short so you do not really get much of a chance to run.
Why do you think shields are hit and run? Their regen is lower than armor (their armor plus shields) in the short term in most instances. They do have a slight mobility advantage but it matters little when AA mows one down as they run with their slight advantage. You can wittle a shield tanker down just by getting to his armor
Armor gets nice advantages in tanking (total ehp is higher), regen is better than people think, has multiple ways to heal which really makes regen favor them.
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
239
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Posted - 2013.11.07 01:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Oh excuse me for being a slow ****** for having the same eHP as you and half the regen, so I could have more damage.
Yay trade offs.
P.S: Nobody uses complex plates, they are expensive CPU/PG wise and aren't much better than advanced plates.
P.S.S: Put a CPU extender in one of your low slots on your caldari suit, this allows you to create a mega powerful suit that beats the crap out of any Gallente suit.
This is false. Armor does get a mobility disadvantage but cmon it's 10-15% or less...definitely not super slow. Plus mobility means much less than it used to when you consider damage increases and AA.
Regen on armor tankers is FAR better than you think (see my post in this thread where I show this with stats), it's actually BETTER than shields in many cases. Plus alternate ways to heal means advantage armor (at least on par).
Seriously you want to talk about mod progression? Shields MUST use pro mods to even compete...they don't have a choice. They have to take the big PG/CPU hit that armor conveniently gets a choice to avoid.
CPU/PG enhancers, dampeners, hacking mods, range amps, biotics, regulators give shields their biggest advantage: versatility. Issue with this is opportunity cost ie they cannot equip it all at once. This means in whatever build you think shields defeat armor they've completely lost in most other situations. Armor gets a nice advantage because high damage tank is among the best builds in the game, it may lose to a specialized shield suit (in one situation) but is completely VERSATILE to most situations. |
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