Just wait until the next big update. They said there was definitely the possibility of a respec with the new dropsuits.

Then you can put all of your points into the really long tedious skills and work on getting back all of the quick and easy skills.

The issue here, is what the actual numbers are, rather than a handwavy "many" claim from you.

It would be interesting to somehow know numbers on things like:

- what percentage of players currently have a proto suit.
- of those people who dont have a proto suit, how many would
- a) stick it out and eventually get one
- b) get tired of being proto-stomped for a month, and go find some other game to play before then.

Elitist asshats may say, "oh well those last guys arent hardcore enough, get lost".
However, elitist asshats may find themselves with fewer and fewer other people to play against.

Here's an idea that I totally haven't thought trough:

1) Decrease the SP sink for all proto suits, so people get to play more variants:

- Make it easier to try different suits & keep gameplay varied

+1

We need more content and less SP sinks. I'd say remove the basic suits (keep the heavy though) and condense the skill tree. The SP we're putting into our class suits should be for T-II and faction ones.

FWIW: The CPM pushed for the suit modifiers to be lower (and for core skills as well) when they approached us with the problem of why people were unhappy with the huge SP sink increase that came up with uprising's skill changes. They took our feedback mostly to heart with vehicles (but not for vehicle engineering sadly) in terms of skill modifiers, and reduced the pre-reqs from getting basic suits 5 to basic suits 3 in order to hit specs.


We couldn't convince them to lower the modifers then, so this is probably a vain effort.

I support this thread, however much that counts for though.

FWIW: The CPM pushed for the suit modifiers to be lower (and for core skills as well) when they approached us with the problem of why people were unhappy with the huge SP sink increase that came up with uprising's skill changes. They took our feedback mostly to heart with vehicles (but not for vehicle engineering sadly) in terms of skill modifiers, and reduced the pre-reqs from getting basic suits 5 to basic suits 3 in order to hit specs.


We couldn't convince them to lower the modifers then, so this is probably a vain effort.

I support this thread, however much that counts for though.

But along that vein.. if you're playing a game for A MONTH without anything new to play with because you're saving all your SP for that stupid proto suit... then that tends to be discouraging towards continued playing.

I'm currently in the process of acquiring my second prototype dropsuit (non-basic). It absolutely sucks. Grinding SP for 2 months just to have another suit for marginal differences is bonkers. I'd suggest reducing the multipliers from 8 to 6 or rearrange the skill tree so subsequent proto suits won't require as much effort.

Cheers for the reply and heads up mate. It's a pity CCP wishes to ration their content so tight.

Why do you need to go full proto to try new things? All you need to go to is level 1 which is fast and easy to try something out. Advanced is more than enough to hold you off in any pub match. You've got to be willing to grind that SP if you really want to take a suit all the way to level 5. The idea that Proto is the only way to be successful is a scrubby idea.

I'm currently in the process of acquiring my second prototype dropsuit (non-basic). It absolutely sucks. Grinding SP for 2 months just to have another suit for marginal differences is bonkers. I'd suggest reducing the multipliers from 8 to 6 or rearrange the skill tree so subsequent proto suits won't require as much effort.

So, you aren't satisfied with your first choice? Buy a booster. So you want to grind for a 3rd proto suit? Buy A BOOSTER.

Do I sound like that voice in the warbarge yet?

I dont even bother with proto suits. But i also play a heavy so its 1 whole slot i am missing out on. I can totally live without it. I would rather have prof 5 on my weapons and a complex damage mod.

Which is another thing that i find funny. The armor / shields are totally flat on heavy suits literally all of them are 405 / 405. I think the only heavy suit that is less is the milita.

According to one of the posters in this forum, it takes about 5 weeks to get enough SP to max into a Prototype Dropsuit without boosters. That's nothing, right?

It takes 23 days, 10 hours of continuous skill training (keep in mind that this is completely passive with no implants to improve training) for a fresh EVE player to get into a T2 Assault Frigate. Additionally, there are two T2 Assault Frigates per race.

Let's compare times:
EVE, 2 T2 Frigates (2 Assault Frigates) (23 days, 10 hours, Passive)
Dust 514, 1 non-basic Prototype Dropsuit (~5 Weeks, Passive and Active)

After that, getting another Prototype Dropsuit would take about 5 more weeks, right? Well, let's see how long it would take to train another T2 Frigate for EVE. Let's go with... Covert Ops this time. You would expect it would take about another 23 days, right? Well, no, not really. The two have overlapping requirements (Racial Frigate V), so it takes less time this time around (keep in mind that I'm counting the prerequisites for Prototype Dropsuits, and it's just an estimation, so it might be a little inaccurate). Also, the Covert Ops frigate skill for EVE is for two classes of starship, instead of just two variants of the same class.

Let's compare times:
EVE, 4 T2 Frigates (2 Assault Frigates, 1 Covert Ops, 1 Stealth Bomber) (35 days, 7 hours, Passive)
Dust 514, 2 non-basic Prototype Dropsuits (~10 Weeks, Passive and Active)

Let's continue. As before, getting another Prototype Dropsuit should take about 5 more weeks. On the EVE side of things, let's go with Interceptors. Like before, it has overlapping requirements (Racial Frigate V, again), so it takes about as much time as it took with the Covert Ops.

Let's compare times:
EVE, 6 T2 Frigates (2 Assault Frigates, 2 Interceptors, 1 Covert Ops, 1 Stealth Bomber) (47 days, 4 hours, Passive)
Dust 514, 3 non-basic Prototype Dropsuits (~15 Weeks, Passive and Active)

I could continue, as there is one more class of T2 Frigate, but no one uses it and so it would be kind of unfair to use as an example. To train for 3 non-basic Prototype Dropsuits of 3 types, you must spend 3.75 months of both passive and active skill training. To train for 6 T2 Frigates of 4 types, you only need to spend 1.57 months of passive skill training. That's less than half, and with twice the unlocked variety (different variants of the same class of ship are often very different in playstyle).

Now, suppose the estimation I was given about how long it takes to train for Prototype dropsuits was off by a week. That's still 3 months, which is still almost twice as long for far less variety. And yes, while it is true that EVE requires a lot of other skills to be trained in order for you to be effective, they also improve your ability when using other ships, and the same can also be said for Dust 514 (complex modules are harsh maidens).

Also, other ship types do take longer to train for, but I think frigates are a good analogy for dropsuits.

its only a good analogy because it backs up your argument.....

you could make the same case with battlecruisers and youre talking well over a month to do the same thing with one race...

want a BC of another race? yet another month plus or training....

I think this is a better analogy for dropsuits.

Dropsuits are the cheapest, smallest personal combat units in Dust 514.
Frigates are the cheapest, smallest personal combat units in EVE Online.
I think it's a good analogy.


Firstly, battlecruisers don't take nearly that long to get into, just that long to become proficient with (unless you are talking about Command Ships, in which case, you should have made that clear). Secondly, you completely fail to mention that, in the process, you'll also be unlocking that race's frigates, destroyers and cruisers.


Why is it a better analogy? Are dropsuits more similar to battlecruisers than they are to frigates?

I think people are missing a very important point here: Dust IS NOT EVE! Dust is a FPS, console game. FPS console players don't like to do sums and calculate the time for this and that. In general they like to suit up and shoot people and then perhaps worry about how long it will take them to get to their next milestone.

If we look at the CoDs and Battlefields of the world the player gets some kind of reward all the time, no matter how small. It could be a new weapon camo, a new dogtag or whatever but the point is that the player gets some kind of reward every few hours of play. Now Dust is trying attract these kinds of players and the concept of playing for weeks on end with no reward until the end is alien to them.

I think the grind for proto suits is not rewarding enough. I already have proto Cal assault and I will have proto Gal assault in the next week or so. But I don't use my proto suits unless it's a PC match or I'm up against a particularly tough enemy. Why? Because the cost of losing a proto suit is too great and the ISK reward from regular matches is too small. One well-fit proto suit for me is 150,000ISK give or take, an average payout for a match is somewhere from 200k-300k. So I can only afford to die twice in a proto suit before I start to lose money for that match. I'd love to run my proto suits all the time but it just doesn't pay me to do so. And before some smartass says I should be a better player and not die as much I'm a Beta Vet with 21 million SP and a 2.08 KDR, so I am a decent enough player I think.

but training wise if you need an analogy BC is a better fit because that's what you need at most least to access a good part of eve's meaningful content... i.e. incursions level 3-4 missions and unless your a throw away tackle, fleet pvp.

You should have no problem soloing most Level 3 Missions with an Assault Frigate, and Assault Frigates are actually quite good at small-scale PvP. They might not be as good at large-scale fleet engagements as battlecruisers are, but that's not what they were meant for.

That being said, dropsuits are analogous to frigates from a combat perspective. They are both highly agile, capable of avoiding heavy weapons fire by their movements alone (though in completely different ways), can perform a variety of roles, are reasonably disposable, and have a short TTK when compared to other combat units.

REGARDLESS, the point I was trying to make still stands. Training to use a dropsuit in Dust 514 is, in general, more painful than training to use a starship in EVE Online. There are almost no exceptions to this rule. Go ahead, try to point some exceptions out. I'll gladly tell you why you're wrong.