But along that vein.. if you're playing a game for A MONTH without anything new to play with because you're saving all your SP for that stupid proto suit... then that tends to be discouraging towards continued playing.

Your statement being true, does not change my statement to not be true.

The issue here, is what the actual numbers are, rather than a handwavy "many" claim from you.

It would be interesting to somehow know numbers on things like:

- what percentage of players currently have a proto suit.
- of those people who dont have a proto suit, how many would
- a) stick it out and eventually get one
- b) get tired of being proto-stomped for a month, and go find some other game to play before then.

Elitist asshats may say, "oh well those last guys arent hardcore enough, get lost".
However, elitist asshats may find themselves with fewer and fewer other people to play against.

FWIW: The CPM pushed for the suit modifiers to be lower (and for core skills as well) when they approached us with the problem of why people were unhappy with the huge SP sink increase that came up with uprising's skill changes. They took our feedback mostly to heart with vehicles (but not for vehicle engineering sadly) in terms of skill modifiers, and reduced the pre-reqs from getting basic suits 5 to basic suits 3 in order to hit specs.


We couldn't convince them to lower the modifers then, so this is probably a vain effort.

I support this thread, however much that counts for though.

According to one of the posters in this forum, it takes about 5 weeks to get enough SP to max into a Prototype Dropsuit without boosters. That's nothing, right?

It takes 23 days, 10 hours of continuous skill training (keep in mind that this is completely passive with no implants to improve training) for a fresh EVE player to get into a T2 Assault Frigate. Additionally, there are two T2 Assault Frigates per race.

Let's compare times:
EVE, 2 T2 Frigates (2 Assault Frigates) (23 days, 10 hours, Passive)
Dust 514, 1 non-basic Prototype Dropsuit (~5 Weeks, Passive and Active)

After that, getting another Prototype Dropsuit would take about 5 more weeks, right? Well, let's see how long it would take to train another T2 Frigate for EVE. Let's go with... Covert Ops this time. You would expect it would take about another 23 days, right? Well, no, not really. The two have overlapping requirements (Racial Frigate V), so it takes less time this time around (keep in mind that I'm counting the prerequisites for Prototype Dropsuits, and it's just an estimation, so it might be a little inaccurate). Also, the Covert Ops frigate skill for EVE is for two classes of starship, instead of just two variants of the same class.

Let's compare times:
EVE, 4 T2 Frigates (2 Assault Frigates, 1 Covert Ops, 1 Stealth Bomber) (35 days, 7 hours, Passive)
Dust 514, 2 non-basic Prototype Dropsuits (~10 Weeks, Passive and Active)

Let's continue. As before, getting another Prototype Dropsuit should take about 5 more weeks. On the EVE side of things, let's go with Interceptors. Like before, it has overlapping requirements (Racial Frigate V, again), so it takes about as much time as it took with the Covert Ops.

Let's compare times:
EVE, 6 T2 Frigates (2 Assault Frigates, 2 Interceptors, 1 Covert Ops, 1 Stealth Bomber) (47 days, 4 hours, Passive)
Dust 514, 3 non-basic Prototype Dropsuits (~15 Weeks, Passive and Active)

I could continue, as there is one more class of T2 Frigate, but no one uses it and so it would be kind of unfair to use as an example. To train for 3 non-basic Prototype Dropsuits of 3 types, you must spend 3.75 months of both passive and active skill training. To train for 6 T2 Frigates of 4 types, you only need to spend 1.57 months of passive skill training. That's less than half, and with twice the unlocked variety (different variants of the same class of ship are often very different in playstyle).

Now, suppose the estimation I was given about how long it takes to train for Prototype dropsuits was off by a week. That's still 3 months, which is still almost twice as long for far less variety. And yes, while it is true that EVE requires a lot of other skills to be trained in order for you to be effective, they also improve your ability when using other ships, and the same can also be said for Dust 514 (complex modules are harsh maidens).

Also, other ship types do take longer to train for, but I think frigates are a good analogy for dropsuits.

Dropsuits are the cheapest, smallest personal combat units in Dust 514.
Frigates are the cheapest, smallest personal combat units in EVE Online.
I think it's a good analogy.


Firstly, battlecruisers don't take nearly that long to get into, just that long to become proficient with (unless you are talking about Command Ships, in which case, you should have made that clear). Secondly, you completely fail to mention that, in the process, you'll also be unlocking that race's frigates, destroyers and cruisers.


Why is it a better analogy? Are dropsuits more similar to battlecruisers than they are to frigates?

You should have no problem soloing most Level 3 Missions with an Assault Frigate, and Assault Frigates are actually quite good at small-scale PvP. They might not be as good at large-scale fleet engagements as battlecruisers are, but that's not what they were meant for.

That being said, dropsuits are analogous to frigates from a combat perspective. They are both highly agile, capable of avoiding heavy weapons fire by their movements alone (though in completely different ways), can perform a variety of roles, are reasonably disposable, and have a short TTK when compared to other combat units.

REGARDLESS, the point I was trying to make still stands. Training to use a dropsuit in Dust 514 is, in general, more painful than training to use a starship in EVE Online. There are almost no exceptions to this rule. Go ahead, try to point some exceptions out. I'll gladly tell you why you're wrong.