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CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP
118
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Posted - 2013.10.31 12:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
SP's are the most valued thing in this game.
Fix this and DUST514 becomes the game it should be.
DUST514 Love The Dream Hate The Product
(>GÇ+Gùá)G£î
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General John Ripper
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
11503
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Posted - 2013.10.31 12:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
any ideas on a solution? How do you propose they fix this?
Dust 514's #17 Forum Warrior
Founder of the Forum Warrior Club
King of Tacos
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Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2093
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Posted - 2013.10.31 12:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:any ideas on a solution? How do you propose they fix this?
Equipment ? Weapon Mods ? Cosmetics ? ..... MMO!!?!?!?!?!?!
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
1162
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Posted - 2013.10.31 13:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Got to the root cause: eliminate time-in-match based passive sp accumulation. Find a less destructive way to take care of the weaker/newer players.
The playerbase never asked for those passive rewards, and they are a cancer that is distorting the gameplay. |
Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
100
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Posted - 2013.10.31 13:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
479
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Posted - 2013.10.31 13:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. That and the fact that the current skill tree takes years to complete
And the skill tree isn't even done yet!
I am everything
AV, Tanker, Logi, Scout, Heavy, and so much more
This is the setup of those who are unbiased
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1467
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. That and the fact that the current skill tree takes years to complete And the skill tree isn't even done yet! ThatGÇÖs the point. You are never supposed to be able to skill into everything, but there are always plenty of things you can skill into. This allows new players to become competitive fairly quickly by specializing, while vets will be able to be more versatile. It still works in EVE where some players have been skilling up for 10 years.
Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1467
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Got to the root cause: eliminate time-in-match based passive sp accumulation. Find a less destructive way to take care of the weaker/newer players.
The playerbase never asked for those passive rewards, and they are a cancer that is distorting the gameplay.
Well, I would be happy if they just changed it so you donGÇÖt get the passive sp bonus when you are in the Red Line. That might solve a few problems.
Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013.
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Himiko Kuronaga
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
2083
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid.
Respecs are dumb in most games.
You're supposed to be "developing" a character in an RPG.
What is the point of "development" if you can just snap your fingers and ask for a redo? |
jenza aranda
BetaMax.
1945
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. i disagree. one of the reasons i like dust is that your decisions have impact and are meaningful. if you make a mistake, so be it.
0101001101101111011011110110111010011001
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1750
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
One of the reasons I joined this game is for the progression, getting better through determination and hard work, I spent hundreds of hours grinding, killing, and getting my ass beat to get that upgraded gear and be like: yes I did it!
And these bastards are constantly nerfing my ****, screw progression let's just take everything that isn't standard level and trow it the hell out, is that what you want for everyone and everything to be the same?
Hell let's take out any suits and weapons that ain't an AR/midframe or the racial equal while we're going for it, yall already want that right, no shotgun, no MD, snipers, forge guns, scout, or heavy just midframes and ARs.
Make it happen CCP, your butthurt fanbase that's too used to getting their hands held in games demand it!
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja.
Forum Warrior level 1
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Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
101
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Atiim wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. That and the fact that the current skill tree takes years to complete And the skill tree isn't even done yet! ThatGÇÖs the point. You are never supposed to be able to skill into everything, but there are always plenty of things you can skill into. This allows new players to become competitive fairly quickly by specializing, while vets will be able to be more versatile. It still works in EVE where some players have been skilling up for 10 years.
This is part fps.In a fps you need respec not to be locked in place.The rest would be if things were balance but there not. |
Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
101
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. i disagree. one of the reasons i like dust is that your decisions have impact and are meaningful. if you make a mistake, so be it.
How fare is it to spec into your play style then have it nerfed.How many sp points are useless now?How many people have an advantage over you now?Then what ,you start again then nerf?Fps evolve,without a respec option your stuck, and with no balance whats left of your spec falls behind. |
KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1302
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wrong.
Dust's biggest current issues in order:
1. Too big maps for the feeble amount of 16 vs 16 players.
2. OP nades.
3. Lack of trust from community due to CCPs shady marketing and business ethics, borderlining being illegal. |
KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1302
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. i disagree. one of the reasons i like dust is that your decisions have impact and are meaningful. if you make a mistake, so be it.
And if CCP makes a mistake you're also screwed. Bloody fanboys.... |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
349
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. i disagree. one of the reasons i like dust is that your decisions have impact and are meaningful. if you make a mistake, so be it.
Strongly disagree, one can only make mistakes when all the options are already on the table, everyone should have a partial or full respec when there are: new skills and respective equipment/weapons/vehicles/suits that are affected by it. You cant blame a player for choosing the only path there was available at the time and then asking for a respec when there are new things that the same player prefers playing or using and that if they were there since the start he would have picked.
Tech Guard Recruiting Spot
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Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
103
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Wrong.
Dust's biggest current issues in order:
1. Too big maps for the feeble amount of 16 vs 16 players.
2. OP nades.
3. Lack of trust from community due to CCPs shady marketing and business ethics, borderlining being illegal.
1.is what happens with nerf and no respec (smaller playerbase)
2. Nades are supposed to be strong (problem is spamming)
3.That's business(go to any game forum and players say the same thing) |
Vell0cet
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
468
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Atiim wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. That and the fact that the current skill tree takes years to complete And the skill tree isn't even done yet! ThatGÇÖs the point. You are never supposed to be able to skill into everything, but there are always plenty of things you can skill into. This allows new players to become competitive fairly quickly by specializing, while vets will be able to be more versatile. It still works in EVE where some players have been skilling up for 10 years. Well said!
Choices have consequences, live with them. If you spec into something OP, expect it to be nerfed later. No SP are wasted, they all improve your character in some way or allow them access to different equipment.
...As for what this game needs. It desperately needs a way to test things before they're deployed. Check my sig for a thread on how that can be done.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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pagl1u M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
57
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. i disagree. one of the reasons i like dust is that your decisions have impact and are meaningful. if you make a mistake, so be it. What if the mistake wasnt mine But It was from ccp and they nerf me and I find myself with the wrong skills cause They r not the ones I spent my sp in? If my decisions are permanent then why are they nerfing me? |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
1163
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. i disagree. one of the reasons i like dust is that your decisions have impact and are meaningful. if you make a mistake, so be it. For my choices, I feel the same way as you, but with misgivings. I would be taking taking a very hard line on this if lineups were complete, if stats were not changing and if core mechanics had stabilized(but they are definitely getting better).
My preference is for one more respec, after all racial suits, all racial weapons, all racial vehicles are complete and second-pass balanced. Also need core mechanics in fully working order.
After that one-time-only respec, if peeps ask for more, i'll be the first to mock them as grossly defective clone-meat =)
P.S. From EVE Vegas, it sounds like that final respec is a definite maybe. |
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Drapedup Drippedout
G.U.T.Z
67
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. i disagree. one of the reasons i like dust is that your decisions have impact and are meaningful. if you make a mistake, so be it.
I think a 1-time respec at the cost of 10mil isk is not asking too much. Especially in a game that is not 'newbie' friendly, FFS they just revamped their "tutorials" almost a year in! And don't get me started on the Academy graduation, 1200 WP? Seriously???. For starters it is very hard to find any kind of guide or template on how to play the game. You can reach out to the community, but we tend to gripe more over playstyle than progressions. Also, how many new players are going to go to the forums within the first week or two? They will almost always screw up their first 2mil sp. Couple all that with the fact this is a new game every couple months, my decisions in July would have been different had I known that CCP was going to change the fundamental aspects of the game a couple months later. You can't hold that against someone.
If CCP offered a once-per character respec at a fixed price, or percentage of Lifetime SP, I could see it alleviating a lot of the headaches.
There's an old chinese proverb: Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, quit changing the ******* game. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
297
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP wrote:SP's are the most valued thing in this game.
Fix this and DUST514 becomes the game it should be.
PvE.
I just fixed dust. You're welcome.
Ninja spam artist/logistical nightmare
Amarr victor!
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Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
103
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Atiim wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. That and the fact that the current skill tree takes years to complete And the skill tree isn't even done yet! ThatGÇÖs the point. You are never supposed to be able to skill into everything, but there are always plenty of things you can skill into. This allows new players to become competitive fairly quickly by specializing, while vets will be able to be more versatile. It still works in EVE where some players have been skilling up for 10 years. Well said! Choices have consequences, live with them. If you spec into something OP, expect it to be nerfed later. No SP are wasted, they all improve your character in some way or allow them access to different equipment. ...As for what this game needs. It desperately needs a way to test things before they're deployed. Check my sig for a thread on how that can be done.
Sorry but wrong.Your screwing over an entire playerbase because of this. Lets us card games a an example: there's two types of players 1.The player thats good at playing decks 2.The player thats good at making decks
Dust 1.player good that good at playing the build 2.player good at making a build Player 2 in dust gets screwed. How is player two going to test a build and see which one he likes without respec.
Choices have consequences you say,well those choices got taken away.If something was op that was their choice to spec,nerf wasn't.No point in testing something before its deployed if you need to max it out to see the real benifits |
KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1303
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tek Hound wrote:KingBabar wrote:Wrong.
Dust's biggest current issues in order:
1. Too big maps for the feeble amount of 16 vs 16 players.
2. OP nades.
3. Lack of trust from community due to CCPs shady marketing and business ethics, borderlining being illegal. 1.is what happens with nerf and no respec (smaller playerbase) 2. Nades are supposed to be strong (problem is spamming) 3.That's business(go to any game forum and players say the same thing)
1. Same as my nr 3. They keep dangling OP stuff for people to spec into and then they nerf it to uselessness, and thats merely just the tip.
2. They can't seriously be this strong by intent? Really? A nade OHKing a 1200 fatsuit? Really?
3. Maybe you're right, but CCP is in their own little league, just look at the fused locus nades debacle. They put it on a sort of super sale right before they nerf them into oblivion, hardly just by happenstanse...
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Goric Rumis
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
242
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tek Hound wrote:Sorry but wrong.Your screwing over an entire playerbase because of this. Lets us card games a an example: there's two types of players 1.The player thats good at playing decks 2.The player thats good at making decks
Dust 1.player good that good at playing the build 2.player good at making a build Player 2 in dust gets screwed. How is player two going to test a build and see which one he likes without respec.
Choices have consequences you say,well those choices got taken away.If something was op that was their choice to spec,nerf wasn't.No point in testing something before its deployed if you need to max it out to see the real benifits "Making" decks as in cheating? How do you "make" a deck in a card game? You play the hand you're dealt. That's a weird analogy.
You can actually test a lot of builds right from the beginning. I have an alt that has the lowest possible level in a lot of different equipment. At 700k SP, I'm still having fun, be it with a plasma cannon, mass driver, assault rifle, whatever. There's only a handful of equipment you can't get militia, and the SP required to get the lowest level equipment isn't really that much. Are you suggesting you need to try the highest level of everything to decide whether it's worth doing? |
Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
104
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. Respecs are dumb in most games. You're supposed to be "developing" a character in an RPG. What is the point of "development" if you can just snap your fingers and ask for a redo?
Thats the point its an RPG ,why shouldn't you be able to change your character.
There's never been anything bumb about respec, they help you refine you character thats why its offered.
Name a mmo where your abilities are limited an locked in place once you picked them.That would be very stupid if you couldn't change your abilities.How would people find dps rotation,tank rotation, How would healers no what moves healed better if they was stuck with their first choice? |
Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
104
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Goric Rumis wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Sorry but wrong.Your screwing over an entire playerbase because of this. Lets us card games a an example: there's two types of players 1.The player thats good at playing decks 2.The player thats good at making decks
Dust 1.player good that good at playing the build 2.player good at making a build Player 2 in dust gets screwed. How is player two going to test a build and see which one he likes without respec.
Choices have consequences you say,well those choices got taken away.If something was op that was their choice to spec,nerf wasn't.No point in testing something before its deployed if you need to max it out to see the real benifits "Making" decks as in cheating? How do you "make" a deck in a card game? You play the hand you're dealt. That's a weird analogy. You can actually test a lot of builds right from the beginning. I have an alt that has the lowest possible level in a lot of different equipment. At 700k SP, I'm still having fun, be it with a plasma cannon, mass driver, assault rifle, whatever. There's only a handful of equipment you can't get militia, and the SP required to get the lowest level equipment isn't really that much. Are you suggesting you need to try the highest level of everything to decide whether it's worth doing?
Card games as in magic,yugioh,naruto |
SteelDark Knight
Ancient Exiles
136
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Tek Hound wrote:Respec option Really dumb since other mmo offer one and this is also a fps.Fps with no respec very stupid. i disagree. one of the reasons i like dust is that your decisions have impact and are meaningful. if you make a mistake, so be it.
In theory I like the idea and always have. However, in the case of Dust 514 this concept doesn't work at this stage because it's not been the players mistakes but CCP's that have generated a massive call for a Respec. Example: Vehicle changes in 1.7. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
438
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
how a game like this work.
u are supposed to progress in your skills over time.
u rnt supposed to jump from being an extremely good combat player to extremely good logi.
u have to get better through time.. a very good reason to oppose respecs.
those that when into every thing a little will slowly get to better equipment and unlock more through time. thats the reason no respec needs to be done.
if u fully specced into one thing and it gets nerfed. than that means you will have to try something new.
this isnt your average cod or bf game. this is dust 514. |
Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
104
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:how a game like this work.
u are supposed to progress in your skills over time.(yes but skills useless after nerf time lost)
u rnt supposed to jump from being an extremely good combat player to extremely good logi.(how would you find out if you like logi better)
u have to get better through time..(getting better has nothing to do with respec ) good reason to oppose respecs.(very bad reason)
those that when into every thing a little will slowly get to better equipment and unlock more through time.(yes and in time they become useless or something better comes)
thats the reason no respec needs to be done.(the reason why we need respec)
if u fully specced into one thing and it gets nerfed. than that means you will have to try something new.(in other words throw you sp out and start from scratch)
this isnt your average cod or bf game. this is dust 514.(Correct a cone soldier with they ability to make new choices.this is AA AR514 with dlc nade parade.
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