Goric Rumis
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:02:00 -
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Tek Hound wrote:Sorry but wrong.Your screwing over an entire playerbase because of this. Lets us card games a an example: there's two types of players
1.The player thats good at playing decks
2.The player thats good at making decks
Dust
1.player good that good at playing the build
2.player good at making a build
Player 2 in dust gets screwed. How is player two going to test a build and see which one he likes without respec.
Choices have consequences you say,well those choices got taken away.If something was op that was their choice to spec,nerf wasn't.No point in testing something before its deployed if you need to max it out to see the real benifits
"Making" decks as in cheating? How do you "make" a deck in a card game? You play the hand you're dealt. That's a weird analogy.
You can actually test a lot of builds right from the beginning. I have an alt that has the lowest possible level in a lot of different equipment. At 700k SP, I'm still having fun, be it with a plasma cannon, mass driver, assault rifle, whatever. There's only a handful of equipment you can't get militia, and the SP required to get the lowest level equipment isn't really that much. Are you suggesting you need to try the highest level of everything to decide whether it's worth doing? |
Goric Rumis
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.10.31 17:59:00 -
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I think this post succinctly summarizes many of the problems I have with the pro-respec argument, so I'm going to dissect it. Quotes are in bold because there's a limit to how many you can have in a post.
Tek Hound wrote:Card games as in magic,yugioh,naruto 
Thanks for clarifying. Not everyone plays those games, so when you say "card games" some people are thinking poker, hearts, spades, etc. This analogy makes more sense now.
This seems to be over your head so
Most people don't take well to being patronized. Your posts might be more effective if you didn't do it.
Point is to have fun,but adding any little bit of competition to it and thing change.
Yes and no. All such games will try to meet both people who have fun just playing the game, and people who love intense competition. The skill tree allows for both, but if you want the intense competition it's going to take a long time. Figuring out which weapon you like takes about two weeks' worth of SP (or, you know, your starting SP). It takes several months to get any of those trees fully developed to the point where you're competitive in the fiercest arenas. Proportionally speaking, the time sink isn't that huge.
Do you use a 1k build the same as a 100k build?
As a matter of fact, I do. Because the tactics that work best with prototype equipment are also the tactics that work best with standard equipment. Sure, your options branch out, but if you're not into it at the standard level, things aren't going to change much as you go up. An assault variant or breach variant isn't going to be dramatically different from the standard.
How do you know going full build is worth it?
Because you've tried it out before going full build by using militia- or standard-level equipment beforehand. And many of the skills are re-usable, especially if you're staying in the same racial tree.
Then you went full build and got nerfed then what.
Then theoretically you're balanced, and it's just a matter of adjusting your tactics. Of course, this doesn't always work out in practice, but re-balances are always ongoing and eventually it all comes back around. In the meantime, branch out, try something new, and come back to it with a clear head. Most of the weapon classes that have been nerfed at some point are relatively viable today. ("Relatively" being the key word--very few are truly competitive with the assault and scrambler rifles, but if you're good with tactics and situational awareness you can still do pretty well.)
How is a new player going to know what he would have fun playing if he was stuck with choice a vs b,c,d.
Because he's not "stuck" with anything, unless he made the poor and unusual decision to put all his eggs in one basket before he'd even checked the other baskets. Even then, it takes one day's passive SP to skill a new weapon to level 1. If you can't get a single kill with a standard-level weapon, then that weapon probably isn't for you.
Personally, I enjoy playing pubs as a medic or a (masochistic) shotgun scout, despite being deeply skilled into heavy. These fits are all militia- and standard-grade. What makes you think you have to have millions of SP in something in order to have fun with it?
If you saying that you are fine were your at then why do you care if people want respec?This doesn't affect you.
Actually it does. I make all my decisions with the assumption that they're permanent, so my decisions are deliberate and calculated. I've chosen a path and I'm sticking with it, even when it's underpowered. With respecs in play, careful deliberation has no value at all, and anything that's (temporarily) underpowered gets abandoned instead of getting supported. With respecs in play, I'd spend loads of SP in places that might not make sense because I can just undo the whole thing later. With respecs in play, I'm just going to settle on whatever is the most effective weapon in the game, and then I'll get bored with it because everyone else is doing the same thing. When I feel like I'm making an investment in something, I stick with it. Respecs mean there's no investment, there's only what feels right at the moment. Depth, specialization, the unique feeling of doing well in the role you've worked for a long time to develop--it all goes out the window.
Your straw-man new player immediately levels up everything to the highest level he can, without trying anything first. If this new player is leveling up in medium suits and assault rifles, he'll do pretty well. If he's leveling up in something else, chances are good it's because he's tried out a few things first. And even if he does get stuck with some bad decisions, it doesn't take long to get enough SP to fit a good standard suit. I have an unspecialized alt with level 1 in five of the light weapons, three of the sidearms, two suits, two shield upgrades, and two types of equipment with less than 700k SP. I don't clean up pubs, but I go positive most games. And I'm not even a good player.
Generally speaking, I wouldn't mind free respecs (either limited or unlimited) for new players until they hit 1m SP, so long as it's made clear that they will lose the ability to respec after that point. Any full respec beyond that is out of the question. Major changes to specific skills or skill trees should be met with the option to refund those skills, without a full character reset. |