DUST Search - Damage mods need to go.

Meeko Fent wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Ludvig Enraga wrote:

Slightly-Mental wrote:

Ludvig Enraga wrote:

While we are at it, how about removing all shields and armour modules?

*fixed

To be honest, no matter what you remove, or add, they will always be some people crying over something. This is the trouble with games that offer different style of play.... Some people cant picture other play styles....

Totally disagree. CCP just threw a bunch of modules into the game that they have not spent a second thinking about (you can see that in the overabundance of useless UP modules as well as any number of other examples to support this) and ended up with a game where there is only one way to do it 'right'. Run a tanked logi with AR.

Not having established core mechanics is a big issue in Dust. There should be more to this game than who has the highest EHP. Scouts were useful at some point, they need to revisit what made that work and re-implement it.

They could dodge bullets.

This was caused by really fast move speeds that hurt HD.

I believe scouts should move a bit faster.

Another factor was their base scan radius. It was double the other dropsuits scan radius. Bring that back as well.

Finally, what could be considered the final nail in the scout coffin was active scanners. They WERE invisible to passive scanners, but due to the abundance if active scanners that made that capability null, scouts lost their final advantage. STD scouts should be invisible to STD scanners. ADV scouts should be invisible to ADV scanners. PRO scouts should be invisible to all scanners but the most precise ones. Scanners also shouldn't be able to do a ballerina twirl and see everybody within 100 meters

Heh, I'm not even a scout. I just pieced these issues together from the various scour threads and made my own fixes up.

Scouts need some hugz.

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Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 622	Posted - 2013.10.27 04:08:00 - [61] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Pretty simple thread, damage mods have been a problem for a very long time by their very nature they upset infantry combat to the point weapons are balanced with them in mind leaving some weapons weakened without their use ( see sniper&MD) This mod turns good weapons into nasty weapons and nasty weapons into op weapons they need to be removed and all weapons modified to compensate they add nothing to infantry combat but frustration. Okay. Armour hardener modules for high slots then please. And shield hardeners for the lows? There are already low slot shield mods. There are no armor mods for high slots.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 453	Posted - 2013.10.27 04:10:00 - [62] - Quote How else am I suppose to get people in Proto suits to move with the Assault MD?
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1293	Posted - 2013.10.27 04:11:00 - [63] - Quote Lol. No
DildoMcnutz Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 295	Posted - 2013.10.27 04:17:00 - [64] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: weakness to explosions . I feel for you guys on that one, the gallente suit really gets rolled by those locus, hell i put one extender on my amarr suit for 298 shield and it still stings pretty bad but you guys have got it the worst in the taking grenades to the face department.
Jason Pearson Animus Securities 3078	Posted - 2013.10.27 04:27:00 - [65] - Quote Would rather see them being used in a weapon fitting system, with negatives being applied to the weapon rather than them being put on the dropsuit. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 449	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:01:00 - [66] - Quote Damage mods are fine. They create an interesting dynamic where you choose between tank/gank/utillity. The problem is TTK is too short for most weapons, which nullifies the importance of gear. This should be addressed by removing the 10% weapon damage buff at the release of Uprising. Some weapons may need to be buffed back afterwards, but this is a much better solution.
Cosgar ParagonX 6645	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:05:00 - [67] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Damage mods are fine. They create an interesting dynamic where you choose between tank/gank/utillity. The problem is TTK is too short for most weapons, which nullifies the importance of gear. This should be addressed by removing the 10% weapon damage buff at the release of Uprising. Some weapons may need to be buffed back afterwards, but this is a much better solution. The removal of the proficiency skill could help as well. Maybe not a complete removal, but make them add more indirect bonuses instead of raw damage. There was a lot of imbalance in earlier builds with the abundance of passives which CCP did the right thing by tying those passives to what you equip, it's time they did the same with proficiency.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 810	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:14:00 - [68] - Quote I made another thread about how damage mods scale across tiers. Essentially, you go up 66% in efficacy from STD to ADV, but then leap up a full 100% from ADV to PRO. This means PRO damage modules are 233% more effective than standard ones. Add stacking penalties and you easily hit 300% (four times) between PRO to STD and 100% (two times) between PRO to ADV. This would be the same as armor plating going from 85 armor to 170 armor to 340 armor and is ridiculous. Armor gets 20% more health per tier while damage mods are getting 100% more damage bonus per tier after stacking penalties. Damage mods also get cheaper to fit for each point of efficacy while most other modules get more expensive. Shield extenders are similar, but there are no stacking penalties to amplify the issue, plus the efficiency scales almost linearly. With the already short times to kill for most weapons, the game becomes more of a twitch fest. You die faster, the enemies die faster and all the problems of the game become more apparent.
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 980	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:26:00 - [69] - Quote Change the cost to: 10 000 basic 20 000 enh 30 000 complex Let's see how many dudes run 3 complex dam mods an proto AR when that alone will cost like 150000. Just fixed the game, your welcome.
DeadlyAztec11 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 2300	Posted - 2013.10.27 06:20:00 - [70] - Quote Do you even Amor tank, bro? Seriously though, no.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 623	Posted - 2013.10.27 06:43:00 - [71] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Change the cost to: 10 000 basic 20 000 enh 30 000 complex Let's see how many dudes run 3 complex dam mods an proto AR when that alone will cost like 150000. Just fixed the game, your welcome. That reminds me. Proto things are too cheap. A proto suit+ proto weapon should run someone 400k isk alone. A fully fitted suit should be ~500k.
Bettie Boop 2100190003 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 170	Posted - 2013.10.27 07:12:00 - [72] - Quote I agree, DEATH TO THE DAMAGE MODS! For armor tanks it would be nice to get some module that effects armor in the high slot. I would even approve of them moving that module invented by CCP's only employee with an IQ under 15 (the Reactive Plate) to the high slot. Not that many/any people would use it even in a high slot.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 605	Posted - 2013.10.27 08:00:00 - [73] - Quote While we are at it, how about removing all shields and armor modules?
Kira Lannister Ancient Exiles 1633	Posted - 2013.10.27 08:07:00 - [74] - Quote What else will I fill my high slots with? 3x Dmg Mod+ Balacs
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1640	Posted - 2013.10.27 16:24:00 - [75] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Change the cost to: 10 000 basic 20 000 enh 30 000 complex Let's see how many dudes run 3 complex dam mods an proto AR when that alone will cost like 150000. Just fixed the game, your welcome. gooed idea, most likely will happen with the player market being released though.
Slightly-Mental Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 22	Posted - 2013.10.27 17:11:00 - [76] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: While we are at it, how about removing all shields and armour modules? *fixed To be honest, no matter what you remove, or add, they will always be some people crying over something. This is the trouble with games that offer different style of play.... Some people cant picture other play styles....
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 74	Posted - 2013.10.27 17:40:00 - [77] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: OZAROW wrote: Change the cost to: 10 000 basic 20 000 enh 30 000 complex Let's see how many dudes run 3 complex dam mods an proto AR when that alone will cost like 150000. Just fixed the game, your welcome. That reminds me. Proto things are too cheap. A proto suit+ proto weapon should run someone 400k isk alone. A fully fitted suit should be ~500k. You're just crazy i think. Don't forget than now a single Militia Assault rifle can Melt 1500hP actually everybody has some too high DPS so a protosuit can be killed in less than a sec.... And it will make everybody in sniper from mcc...
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 629	Posted - 2013.10.27 17:46:00 - [78] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: OZAROW wrote: Change the cost to: 10 000 basic 20 000 enh 30 000 complex Let's see how many dudes run 3 complex dam mods an proto AR when that alone will cost like 150000. Just fixed the game, your welcome. That reminds me. Proto things are too cheap. A proto suit+ proto weapon should run someone 400k isk alone. A fully fitted suit should be ~500k. You're just crazy i think. Don't forget than now a single Militia Assault rifle can Melt 1500hP actually everybody has some too high DPS so a protosuit can be killed in less than a sec.... And it will make everybody in sniper from mcc... That's how proto suits used to be, and it made them special. Now people run them constantly, because they don't cost nearly as much as they used to.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 752	Posted - 2013.10.27 17:50:00 - [79] - Quote Can i have some High mods then that somehow enhance my resistance of my armor plates or enhance my reps ? But if there would be a Mods that enhances 10% damage resistance to Armor Plates or burst rep mod that reps my armor faster if my shields are down, that would be valid mods to fit. But then we would see the Caldari Logi with 50% Resistance to its armor plates no doubt.... Because if i have no damage mods for those slots, i dont see a whole lot of stuff i can fit in there, and saying fit extenders ...errm i am amarr to run armor stuff, if i have to run shields i would have gone Caldari.
Tectonic Fusion The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 433	Posted - 2013.10.27 17:55:00 - [80] - Quote How I see it: Shield tanking can stack kat kins and be really fast, and armor tankers will be slow but will kill you in an instant. I'd rather be the Caldari Assault with a Duvolle, shield tanked, and running 9m.
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. 191	Posted - 2013.10.27 18:22:00 - [81] - Quote Toxin ar, 3 complex mods, tears...
Fiddler Galaine Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo 37	Posted - 2013.10.27 18:32:00 - [82] - Quote Instead, I'd reduce the proficiency skill from 15% to 10%.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 99	Posted - 2013.10.27 18:37:00 - [83] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: But then Gallente suits would lose their crutch The only adv gal has had is not having a weapon that does equal or more damage against them the way that the duvolle gal plasma rifle does against shields thats changing with the new, weapons.. Also thats not really true bc md are hell on gal armor so are cores.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 616	Posted - 2013.10.27 20:57:00 - [84] - Quote Slightly-Mental wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: While we are at it, how about removing all shields and armour modules? *fixed To be honest, no matter what you remove, or add, they will always be some people crying over something. This is the trouble with games that offer different style of play.... Some people cant picture other play styles.... Totally disagree. CCP just threw a bunch of modules into the game that they have not spent a second thinking about (you can see that in the overabundance of useless UP modules as well as any number of other examples to support this) and ended up with a game where there is only one way to do it 'right'. Run a tanked logi with AR.
Cosgar ParagonX 6670	Posted - 2013.10.27 21:05:00 - [85] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Slightly-Mental wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: While we are at it, how about removing all shields and armour modules? *fixed To be honest, no matter what you remove, or add, they will always be some people crying over something. This is the trouble with games that offer different style of play.... Some people cant picture other play styles.... Totally disagree. CCP just threw a bunch of modules into the game that they have not spent a second thinking about (you can see that in the overabundance of useless UP modules as well as any number of other examples to support this) and ended up with a game where there is only one way to do it 'right'. Run a tanked logi with AR. Not having established core mechanics is a big issue in Dust. There should be more to this game than who has the highest EHP. Scouts were useful at some point, they need to revisit what made that work and re-implement it.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 768	Posted - 2013.10.27 21:06:00 - [86] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Pretty simple thread, damage mods have been a problem for a very long time by their very nature they upset infantry combat to the point weapons are balanced with them in mind leaving some weapons weakened without their use ( see sniper&MD) This mod turns good weapons into nasty weapons and nasty weapons into op weapons they need to be removed and all weapons modified to compensate they add nothing to infantry combat but frustration. and why don't you think that core skills balance out damage mods?
Meeko Fent expert intervention Caldari State 1317	Posted - 2013.10.27 21:47:00 - [87] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Slightly-Mental wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: While we are at it, how about removing all shields and armour modules? *fixed To be honest, no matter what you remove, or add, they will always be some people crying over something. This is the trouble with games that offer different style of play.... Some people cant picture other play styles.... Totally disagree. CCP just threw a bunch of modules into the game that they have not spent a second thinking about (you can see that in the overabundance of useless UP modules as well as any number of other examples to support this) and ended up with a game where there is only one way to do it 'right'. Run a tanked logi with AR. Not having established core mechanics is a big issue in Dust. There should be more to this game than who has the highest EHP. Scouts were useful at some point, they need to revisit what made that work and re-implement it. They could dodge bullets. This was caused by really fast move speeds that hurt HD. I believe scouts should move a bit faster. Another factor was their base scan radius. It was double the other dropsuits scan radius. Bring that back as well. Finally, what could be considered the final nail in the scout coffin was active scanners. They WERE invisible to passive scanners, but due to the abundance if active scanners that made that capability null, scouts lost their final advantage. STD scouts should be invisible to STD scanners. ADV scouts should be invisible to ADV scanners. PRO scouts should be invisible to all scanners but the most precise ones. Scanners also shouldn't be able to do a ballerina twirl and see everybody within 100 meters Heh, I'm not even a scout. I just pieced these issues together from the various scour threads and made my own fixes up. Scouts need some hugz.
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 336	Posted - 2013.10.27 21:57:00 - [88] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Pretty simple thread, damage mods have been a problem for a very long time by their very nature they upset infantry combat to the point weapons are balanced with them in mind leaving some weapons weakened without their use ( see sniper&MD) This mod turns good weapons into nasty weapons and nasty weapons into op weapons they need to be removed and all weapons modified to compensate they add nothing to infantry combat but frustration. Okay. Armour hardener modules for high slots then please. Would love to get some explosive resistance mods on my gallente logi :P
ToRgUe77 Ultramarine Corp 6	Posted - 2013.10.27 22:04:00 - [89] - Quote +1
Cosgar ParagonX 6676	Posted - 2013.10.27 22:09:00 - [90] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Slightly-Mental wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: While we are at it, how about removing all shields and armour modules? *fixed To be honest, no matter what you remove, or add, they will always be some people crying over something. This is the trouble with games that offer different style of play.... Some people cant picture other play styles.... Totally disagree. CCP just threw a bunch of modules into the game that they have not spent a second thinking about (you can see that in the overabundance of useless UP modules as well as any number of other examples to support this) and ended up with a game where there is only one way to do it 'right'. Run a tanked logi with AR. Not having established core mechanics is a big issue in Dust. There should be more to this game than who has the highest EHP. Scouts were useful at some point, they need to revisit what made that work and re-implement it. They could dodge bullets. This was caused by really fast move speeds that hurt HD. I believe scouts should move a bit faster. Another factor was their base scan radius. It was double the other dropsuits scan radius. Bring that back as well. Finally, what could be considered the final nail in the scout coffin was active scanners. They WERE invisible to passive scanners, but due to the abundance if active scanners that made that capability null, scouts lost their final advantage. STD scouts should be invisible to STD scanners. ADV scouts should be invisible to ADV scanners. PRO scouts should be invisible to all scanners but the most precise ones. Scanners also shouldn't be able to do a ballerina twirl and see everybody within 100 meters Heh, I'm not even a scout. I just pieced these issues together from the various scour threads and made my own fixes up. Scouts need some hugz. Overall mobility needs hugz. Dumbing down strafing in a high health FPS like this turns everything into a RPG with FPS elements when it should be the other way around.

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