DUST Search - Noobish questions

Sana Rayya wrote:

Wow, you guys just don't stop with proliferating wrong information.

How many of you sent a TICKET to CCP and asked if stacking penalties applied to profile dampeners? I did, and they said they DID apply.

How many of you have profile dampening to Level 5 and have discovered that you CAN'T avoid 28 dB scans by using one Complex Dampener and one Enhanced Dampener on a medium suit? I have. I MUST use 2 complex to avoid proto scanners.

By your logic:

50dB * .90 (skill at level 5) = 45 dB
45 dB * .75 (complex) = 33.75 dB
33.75 dB * .80 (enhanced) = 27 dB (should avoid proto scans, but it doesn't)

This is what really happens:

50 dB * .90 (skill at level 5) = 45 dB
45 dB * .6262 (complex and enhanced using stacking penalty calculator) = 28.18 dB (doesn't avoid proto scans)

With two complex dampeners:
50dB * .90 (skill at level 5) = 45 dB
45 dB * .587 (two complex using stacking penalty calculator) = 26.42 dB (avoids proto scans)

And oh, KING CHECKMATE, FYR you only need two militia or basic profile dampeners to avoid advanced scans if you have level 3 in the skill (your profile is 34.74 dB). There is no added benefit in using higher than basic/militia in two slots at your skill level, since you can't go under proto scans unless you use three slots for three enhanced or get your dampening to proto.

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Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 270	Posted - 2013.10.25 12:51:00 - [31] - Quote Profile Dampeners carry stacking penalties. With level 5 in the skill, a medium frame needs one complex to avoid ADV scans and two complex two avoid 28dB Proto scans. They are worth it in my opinion. Others may disagree and they may not suit your play style (best for flanking, hit and run, etc).
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4728	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:13:00 - [32] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Yes, there is a stacking penalty. The description doesn't mention it, but it exists. Do keep in mind though that the stacking penalty only applies to the modules. So don't apply any penalty to bonus from the scout suit, the bonus from the actual dampening skill, or the first module. Penalties start with the second modules. 1-So overall, Profile dampeners are STill crap. 2-Guessit was not THAT much of a noobish question 3-CCP , you LIED to me again.You did't tell me they had stacking penalties and sold them to me like a fresh sandwich from Subways when it was a week old mcdonalds burger. I WANT A SKILL RESPEC /Facepalm I'll try to be nice here. 1. No they're not. Profile Dampeners are extremely effective against active scanners especially when fitted on a prototype Gallente Scout that has 4 low slots. This means it will take a prototype active scanner to spot you and even then you might still have a chance to compete against it if you max out all the necessary skills. 2. Actually it was a noobish question. It's just that it was a valid one. 3. CCP didn't lie about them. Not every low-slot module has a stacking penalty. If they don't have the description saying that they have one, then there is no stacking penalty. Range Amplifiers for example don't have stacking penalties and they don't have the penalty description.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2089	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:31:00 - [33] - Quote Maken Tosch and Sgt kirk say they dont have stacking penalties.Which i have tested and confirmed. It seems that they dont suffer from stacking penalties and the passive bonus is fully added too... Im using a basic pro.dampener and an enhanced Pro.dampener on a logi.I have passive dampening lv 3. Thats 15+20+6 = 41 Logi scan profile = 50 50 / 1.41 = 35 scan profile. I am effectivley avoiding ADV scanners in FW. And im sure they are adv because they are being carried by proto suits and by players with full squads from corps, and any smart man knows STD Scanners are worthless. XD @ Fizzler: The difference between the ''stable'' and the Quantum, CPU/PG wise is minimal.But the scan duration of 5 to 15+ is not....
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1006	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:33:00 - [34] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I started speccing into Profile dampeners, since im so fed up with Active scanners leading to gang r4pes .... So i have something that might be considered noobish: ''Do profile dampeners HAVE stacking penalties?'' I noticed the Description does NOT say anything about this and i wanted to know if CCP just trolled me AGAIN with the descriptions, or Profile dampeners are atually decent and not trash. TY Please don't
G Torq ALTA B2O 260	Posted - 2013.10.27 09:25:00 - [35] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maken Tosch and Sgt kirk say they dont have stacking penalties.Which i have tested and confirmed. For good measure, could you provide your test setup and protocol, in case others want to replicate the tests? Don't forget to include which build, skill-levels etc were in play. (not trolling - I fully appreciate the effort of having something tested, but at least give us a chance to peer-review and replicate for confirmation)
dogman dave DUST University Ivy League 15	Posted - 2013.10.30 10:41:00 - [36] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maken Tosch and Sgt kirk say they dont have stacking penalties.Which i have tested and confirmed. It seems that they dont suffer from stacking penalties and the passive bonus is fully added too... Im using a basic pro.dampener and an enhanced Pro.dampener on a logi.I have passive dampening lv 3. Thats 15+20+6 = 41 Logi scan profile = 50 50 / 1.41 = 35 scan profile. I am effectivley avoiding ADV scanners in FW. And im sure they are adv because they are being carried by proto suits and by players with full squads from corps, and any smart man knows STD Scanners are worthless. XD @ Fizzler: The difference between the ''stable'' and the Quantum, CPU/PG wise is minimal.But the scan duration of 5 to 15+ is not.... OK, I was hoping someone else would do this because I tend to be a bit heavy, so the math, according to Game Mechanics Wiki entry... 50 - (500.06) - (500.15) - (50*0.20) 50 - 3 - 7.5 - 10 29.5 So your fit's Scan Profile is 29.5 I know, the math says it is possible to get some suits to 0% Scan Profile...but if the game mech wiki is wrong, if the description is wrong, if the testing is wrong... then I'm wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time.
Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp 367	Posted - 2013.10.30 11:47:00 - [37] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maken Tosch and Sgt kirk say they dont have stacking penalties.Which i have tested and confirmed. It seems that they dont suffer from stacking penalties and the passive bonus is fully added too... Im using a basic pro.dampener and an enhanced Pro.dampener on a logi.I have passive dampening lv 3. Thats 15+20+6 = 41 Logi scan profile = 50 50 / 1.41 = 35 scan profile. I am effectivley avoiding ADV scanners in FW. And im sure they are adv because they are being carried by proto suits and by players with full squads from corps, and any smart man knows STD Scanners are worthless. XD @ Fizzler: The difference between the ''stable'' and the Quantum, CPU/PG wise is minimal.But the scan duration of 5 to 15+ is not.... Actually its 50 x 0.94 = 47 (level 3 dp for 6%) 47 x 0.8 = 37.6 (Adv damp at 20%) 37.6 x 0.85 = 31.92 (for the basic at 15%) But I digress, it still works. I run extensive scout suits with dp at different levels so I'm fairly confident with the method "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1682	Posted - 2013.10.30 18:47:00 - [38] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CCP didn't lie about them. Not every low-slot module has a stacking penalty. If they don't have the description saying that they have one, then there is no stacking penalty. Range Amplifiers for example don't have stacking penalties and they don't have the penalty description. I saw this earlier and took note because I couldn't post from work... There ARE stacking penalties on Range Amplifiers, despite them not being mentioned in the description. I and several other scouts have tested this with fully skilled gallente proto scouts and level 5 long range scanning with 4 complex range amplifiers - without stacking penalties you should be able to see people passively 100m away but it's much much less; around 67m, which is what the numbers come to with stacking penalties. I would not be at all surprised if this is also the case for dampeners but the best way for you to check for yourself (since you have level 3 dampening) is to don any light suit (not scout) and put on 2 enhanced dampeners. Without stacking penalties you can avoid proto scanners but with penalties you can't. I'm just running some numbers for more interesting analyses and will get back to you guys again shortly. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 315	Posted - 2013.10.30 19:01:00 - [39] - Quote They don't. *Assassination is my thing.*
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1682	Posted - 2013.10.30 19:09:00 - [40] - Quote Okiedoke, as promised, I'm back to report on my findings. I can see only a handful of cases (I didn't bother with heavies because 65db, come on) where stacking penalties might actually have any effect on whether you are able to avoid a certain scanner and these are as follows: Medium suit, level 1 damp, 2 x std dampeners - with penalties can not avoid advanced scanners, without can Light suit (not scout), level 3 damp, 2 x adv dampeners - with penalties can not avoid proto scanners, without can Light suit, lvl 5 damp, 1 adv + 1 std dampeners - with penalties can not avoid proto scanners, without can Scout lvl 1, lvl 3 damp, 1 adv + 1 std dampeners - with penalties can not avoid proto scanners, without can Scout lvl 1, lvl 5 damp, 2 x std dampeners - with penalties can not avoid proto scanners, without can Now I suspect that similarly to range amps, stacking penalties do apply to dampeners but really with so few cases where it actually has any impact, the whole question is a bit of a moot point really. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.

Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 303	Posted - 2013.10.30 19:12:00 - [41] - Quote Wow, you guys just don't stop with proliferating wrong information. How many of you sent a TICKET to CCP and asked if stacking penalties applied to profile dampeners? I did, and they said they DID apply. How many of you have profile dampening to Level 5 and have discovered that you CAN'T avoid 28 dB scans by using one Complex Dampener and one Enhanced Dampener on a medium suit? I have. I MUST use 2 complex to avoid proto scanners. By your logic: 50dB * .90 (skill at level 5) = 45 dB 45 dB * .75 (complex) = 33.75 dB 33.75 dB * .80 (enhanced) = 27 dB (should avoid proto scans, but it doesn't) This is what really happens: 50 dB * .90 (skill at level 5) = 45 dB 45 dB * .6262 (complex and enhanced using stacking penalty calculator) = 28.18 dB (doesn't avoid proto scans) With two complex dampeners: 50dB * .90 (skill at level 5) = 45 dB 45 dB * .587 (two complex using stacking penalty calculator) = 26.42 dB (avoids proto scans) And oh, KING CHECKMATE, FYR you only need two militia or basic profile dampeners to avoid advanced scans if you have level 3 in the skill (your profile is 34.74 dB). There is no added benefit in using higher than basic/militia in two slots at your skill level, since you can't go under proto scans unless you use three slots for three enhanced or get your dampening to proto.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1856	Posted - 2013.10.30 19:30:00 - [42] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Do profile dampeners HAVE stacking penalties?'' The Consensus is yes, in that penalty applies. To the best of my knowledge, neither CCP nor CPM has verified (in the Forums, at least).
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2148	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:14:00 - [43] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Wow, you guys just don't stop with proliferating wrong information. How many of you sent a TICKET to CCP and asked if stacking penalties applied to profile dampeners? I did, and they said they DID apply. How many of you have profile dampening to Level 5 and have discovered that you CAN'T avoid 28 dB scans by using one Complex Dampener and one Enhanced Dampener on a medium suit? I have. I MUST use 2 complex to avoid proto scanners. By your logic: 50dB * .90 (skill at level 5) = 45 dB 45 dB * .75 (complex) = 33.75 dB 33.75 dB * .80 (enhanced) = 27 dB (should avoid proto scans, but it doesn't) This is what really happens: 50 dB * .90 (skill at level 5) = 45 dB 45 dB * .6262 (complex and enhanced using stacking penalty calculator) = 28.18 dB (doesn't avoid proto scans) With two complex dampeners: 50dB * .90 (skill at level 5) = 45 dB 45 dB * .587 (two complex using stacking penalty calculator) = 26.42 dB (avoids proto scans) And oh, KING CHECKMATE, FYR you only need two militia or basic profile dampeners to avoid advanced scans if you have level 3 in the skill (your profile is 34.74 dB). There is no added benefit in using higher than basic/militia in two slots at your skill level, since you can't go under proto scans unless you use three slots for three enhanced or get your dampening to proto. Ok again, thanks everyone that helped answer this, the math is still somewhat blurry in my eyes since you have all given me so many formulas. But now i know Stacking penalties do apply and that is not as useless as i thought,but playing tank + active scanner is still better/cheaper sp wise IMO....TY everybody. u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É


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