My god we never treat our allies this way. Or at least I hope we would not. So they treat u like dirt and then get all supprised that the matari of all races get pissed off. Even the amarr finally understood the mimatar we not a primitive race. Admittedly way way to late but we still treated them with an element of respec

Do you remember that they attacked us with capital ships over a political incident that went their way anyway?
Whilst I'd prefer not to see this kind of thing, the man has a point.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind the Minmatar of how the Caldari were treated by the federation and suggest you all rethink any ties you have to them. How long do you think until federation forces come to force you under their heel and kill those who resist, all in the name of "freedom" of course.

Never. At least as they don't try to mess with the king of the jungle.

I'm a Born Gallante. Half Minmatar, half Intaki. Naturally I revere the Minmatar. Though, the Republic needs to stop trying to consume our space. Crap like that is not going to fly.

Ah yes, as long as they willingly submit to the Gallentes will and not challenge their decisions the Minmatar will be left alone.
Tell me how treating them as dogs wearing choke collars you will pull at the slightest provocation is supposed to foster good will among them or how supporting such actions in anyway reveres the Minmatar people or their culture or even how forcing others to abdicate to your will does fly in the face of the "freedom" the Gallente like to spout.
Were you my child and defending the actions of the federation and how they go against the ideals you all supposedly hold so dear I would be embarrassed and deeply saddened, doubly so if I were your Minmatar parent

The Federation does not want to control the Republic. The Federation wants to cooperate with the Republic. A mutual alliance. Invading each other is not beneficial. Also, the Federation does not try to dominate them either, in fact the Federation stands idle at the fact that there is free trade between the State and Republic.

What the Republic does is their business. Yes, the Federation gives them funding for common military ventures in Amarr-Minmatar Space, a project I was personally involved with. The only reason we do this is because we want a lot of things done, yet the Federal Military cannot just invade. Instead we have opted to assist the Minmatar to achieve common goals. We are not forcing them to fight for us, no, they were already involved in a struggle and we simply want to enhance their advances.

Though, the reason we support the Minmatar is because we see a lot of our ideals in them. They have a wide diversity of ethnic origins, religions and beliefs.

I do not understand why people think the Federation bosses the Republic around. The have consistently done things we did not like, mostly economic ventures with pirates or some Caldari companies over Gallante Companies. If we really controlled the Republic we would have exploited their resources by now.

What you speak is lies, slander.

I'm not sure I'd say it went their way. The Federals tried the subject, found him guilty, and only then sent him off to be tried by the Minmatar. Essentially, they treated the Minmatar nation like a wolf pit, into which the guilty may be thrown. This isn't precisely respectful.

The Minmatar have been struggling, for years, to right, or else avenge, wrongs they perceive as having been done their people by and in another nation-- a fight the Federation has supported. Why is it surprising that they don't take well to being told that a crime isn't theirs to avenge, at least initially, because it occurred on the other side of a national border?

It's surprising because the attack happened in Gallente space and primarily on Gallentean citizens. If a similar attack happened almost anywhere in New Eden, where the owner of the space is primarily the victim, would someone else attack over not being allowed to try the killer? Almost certainly not.

Of course it's upsetting to them. It's always a tragedy when lives are lost and even more of a concern when they're your people. But jumping dreadnoughts into Gallente space and attacking over not being able to try the victim is going much too far.

Sending Gerne Broteau to the Republic may not have been 'precisely respectful', but it's a better peace-making gesture than throwing him in a Federal prison for the rest of his life.

Adamance, could you explain exactly how the Gallente have attempted to 'subjugate' the Minmatar?

You seem offended by the idea of proxy wars and of supporting war between other factions, though the Caldari are the most guilty of the Empires when it comes to supporting foreign wars. Caldari corporations consistently sell armament between two or more rivals in an attempt to make a high profit. That is just dirty business. The biggest example of this is Caldari support of the Minmatar and Ammatar. The Caldari supported the Minmatar but then supported the Ammatar so they could exploit their resources.


It should be noted that the Caldari continued to manipulate the Minmatar Republic while exploiting the Ammatar. So don't you try to patronize us while you play your "clients" against one another. At least the Gallante support their allies exclusively, 100 . Can't say the same for the Caldari.

It's surprising because the attack happened in Gallente space and primarily on Gallentean citizens. If a similar attack happened almost anywhere in New Eden, where the owner of the space is primarily the victim, would someone else attack over not being allowed to try the killer? Almost certainly not.

Of course it's upsetting to them. It's always a tragedy when lives are lost and even more of a concern when they're your people. But jumping dreadnoughts into Gallente space and attacking over not being able to try the victim is going much too far.

Sending Gerne Broteau to the Republic may not have been 'precisely respectful', but it's a better peace-making gesture than throwing him in a Federal prison for the rest of his life.

Yes but you can say the Caldari are open in our dealings in regards to those two empires, we dont claim the Ammar as allies and then assault their civilians and put the victim on trial for defending himself which is more than you can say for the Gallentes treatment of their "allies"

Does this really matter or are these the bickering of Caldari and Gallente? Something that shames both of your races.

Does this really matter or are these the bickering of Caldari and Gallente? Something that shames both of your races.

I suppose it isn't a surprise that the Amarr can not grasp the negative implications of imperial expansion.

I see the danger in their expansion due to their lack of self control and morals.

See that's just it though. You see the fault in their supposed lack of morals, but not in the perversion of a foreign power subjugating an entire race.

If you refer to the Lord's work then know it is a necessity rather than a matter of choice. We can not more deny the will of God than a patriotic Caldari betray his State.

I see you still find a manner to twist the message of the ancient texts to fit your needs. It is a blatant manipulation of the faith.

The Council has been corrupted by secular powers for centuries. They now serve as an easy way to shove ideas down people's throats. Rather then their original purpose of interpreting the ideals of the True Faith, in a way that benefits all.

The Council has been corrupted by secular powers for centuries. They now serve as an easy way to shove ideas down people's throats. Rather then their original purpose of interpreting the ideals of the True Faith, in a way that benefits all.

Please refrain from engaging in moral debate with the zealot.
You will not win. Additionally, I doubt you have any idea what you're talking about.

Please refrain from engaging in moral debate with the zealot.
You will not win. Additionally, I doubt you have any idea what you're talking about.

You underestimate me, though, little do you that I am part of a Khanid branch of the Amarr Religion. It is strictly against religious reasons for slavery.

You underestimate me, though, little do you that I am part of a Khanid branch of the Amarr Religion. It is strictly against religious reasons for slavery.

Sigh.

Soldier, the Khanid are, if anything, more gung-ho about keeping tight control on their slaves than the mainstream Amarr: the Kingdom approves of the use of transcranial microcontrollers, devices that essentially put a slave into his or her own little personal reality-- mind control via reality manipulation.

If, from that, you are part of an offshoot that politically opposes slavery, fair enough. However, it seems pretty clear to this cheerful heathen that landing on the other side of a major war from the theology council (on the side of heathens, no less), would brand you a heretic-- irrevocably damned in the eyes of the Amarr.

Of course, there's no shortage of similarly condemned cultists. The Amarr are so hard on heretics mostly on account of many of them being Sani Sabik.

Agreed, my religion is not mainstream and it is persecuted under the Khanid Government. There are few members(that are living) and we are spread out across the galaxy. We have been trying to move to the Federation. Though, our strict rule set does not make us popular and we have had small success in the number of new members. Fortunately, the few members we have attracted are high calibre in the class society.

/emote sigh

More Amarrians who claim to freedom fighters against slavery? You're much like that other Amarr who came here some while ago, "something Echo" I believe. Claimed to be loyal to the Amarr, but strictly against out implementation of slavery.

Know that our form of slavery is in no ways oppressive, it is entirely a means to enlighten those unfortunate enough to be born in a dark society and prepare them for life as equals in our peaceful, united Empire. By advocating against them you are a traitor to the scriptures, the Empress, and the Amarr faith. You do not have to right to call yourself an Amarrian, or even a Khanid for that matter. You are a disgrace.

/emote sigh

More Amarrians who claim to freedom fighters against slavery? You're much like that other Amarr who came here some while ago, "something Echo" I believe. Claimed to be loyal to the Amarr, but strictly against out implementation of slavery.

Know that our form of slavery is in no ways oppressive, it is entirely a means to enlighten those unfortunate enough to be born in a dark society and prepare them for life as equals in our peaceful, united Empire. By advocating against them you are a traitor to the scriptures, the Empress, and the Amarr faith. You do not have to right to call yourself an Amarrian, or even a Khanid for that matter. You are a disgrace.

Respectfully, Templar Crusader, ninety-three years of war, recently resumed on a limited basis, forms the background for that "bickering."

This is an ancestral conflict, and its roots are deeper and more complicated than the conflict between yourselves and the Matari. The Caldari and Gallente philosophies of life are inimical to one another. They live for themselves; we live for our families, corporations, and peoples. They seek to change us into them; we seek to be left alone. Caldari Prime is the symbolic core of the conflict.

We side with you primarily because they are on the other side. To us, they are the greater evil.

The Council has been corrupted by secular powers for centuries. They now serve as an easy way to shove ideas down people's throats. Rather then their original purpose of interpreting the ideals of the True Faith, in a way that benefits all.

Aztec I suggest you back down from this, you are pushing this argument away from what it was, now changing into something you haven't the slightest clue about.

Back down now Heathen. Do not make me start another discussion about the holy texts. They are not yours to interpret. That is the sacred duty of the Theological Council.

quote=True Adamance]

Speaking of that last part do you know in RL the reformation for christanity in history (basically christanity's civil war) was caused in part because the church was called corrupt by some & the monk Martin Luther wrote the 95 theses or arguements as to why the church was, he believed that the bible shouldn't be interpreded by just the church officials but by the people reading the bible themself & then drawing they're personal conclusion & so he took the bible & wrote it in the common people's language as the bible was kept in originally all in Latin so only those with the right.... schooling you might say could read, interprect, & teach it. (Though my history memory is a bit sketchy at some points so this is just roughly what I recall btw I respect all real life realigions & beliefs & this is in no way meant to offend)

No offence but isn't Caldari a Dictatorship you probably would have limited access to certain topics & if you were caught philosopising (new word I know) you'd probably get in trouble some then again i'm not Caldari so wouldn't really know I'm just curious if you would be limited to certain information because you are Caldari