DUST Search - [Request] Why don't we take the headshot penalty away from the heavy.

Sgt Kirk wrote:

Lanius Pulvis wrote:

Sgt Kirk wrote:

Lanius Pulvis wrote:

You do realize a Scrambler Pistol gets 450% against head shields and 300+ against head armor right?

Yes, too bad.

Your case is that you're defensive of those two weapons because you use them.

This change to the heavy wouldn't assist me in anyway being a Gallente Assault with AR and SP but heavies need to be practical again. I'm not selfish enough to base the game around my likeness.

Actually I do use the SP, just because of the headshot damage. Are you saying that a class of suit deserves a specific exemption to a particular weapon or effect? In that case how about I get a Dropship invulnerable to all energy weapons....oh maybe because the Devs tried for BALANCE. Basically to shoot a heavy in the head I have to get extremely close or extremely far away, anything in the middle and I'm hamburger. This probably isn't your intent, but it sounds like you want the single drawback to being a heavy to be run speed.

>Speed
>Bigger hitbox
>Decreased mobility and versatility
>low strafe
>No equipment
>Low module slot
>Logi dependent suit.

Pros:
+High HP (only slightly higher from tanked logis)
+Use of heavy weapons (2)

As of now , heavies are my favorite thing to headshot and obliterate in <4 seconds.

I come from a distant time where heavies were something to fear and required thought to engage and not laugh at.

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Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2275	Posted - 2013.10.22 21:06:00 - [1] - Quote Just a thought.
Ghost Kaisar R 0 N 1 N 634	Posted - 2013.10.22 21:06:00 - [2] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Just a thought. The Heavy sniper would be unstoppable. How about no.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2275	Posted - 2013.10.22 21:08:00 - [3] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Just a thought. The Heavy sniper would be unstoppable. How about no. Allow sniper rifles to have headshot bonuses on all suits.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4085	Posted - 2013.10.22 21:13:00 - [4] - Quote Not a bad idea. Seeing as it's difficult not to headshot them.
Auld Syne Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.10.22 21:15:00 - [5] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Just a thought. The Heavy sniper would be unstoppable. How about no. Allow sniper rifles to have headshot bonuses on all suits. but then sniper rifles would.....oh wait. Nevermind, you're good.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1033	Posted - 2013.10.22 22:12:00 - [6] - Quote Not a bad idea actually, it would go a long way towards making the suit more survivable.
Snail Super Wraith Shadow Guards 5	Posted - 2013.10.23 00:36:00 - [7] - Quote No. That would make my scrambler pistol absolutely useless against a Heavy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1126	Posted - 2013.10.23 01:14:00 - [8] - Quote Under one condition: Sniper Rifles do extra headshot damage. Heavy Snipers are ALREADY hard to take out unless they're complete imbeciles, or don't have a good hiding spot. But yea, I win most fights with a heavy even when going straight on in my Caldari Standard Assault suit. The head is just such a big target... I also think that giving Sentinels a small bit of damage resistance would be nice, considering there's not a whole lot of reason to use the Sentinel, even WITH that bonus.
DeadlyAztec11 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 2291	Posted - 2013.10.23 01:18:00 - [9] - Quote #youthought No. My Scrambler Pistol would be far too sad.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 417	Posted - 2013.10.23 01:27:00 - [10] - Quote Snail Super wrote: No. That would make my scrambler pistol absolutely useless against a Heavy. Perhaps -6.5% damage from head shots per level? Considering that most weapons to +50% damage to the head, this would mean that heavies would take 67.5/100 * 150% = 101% damage, neat. But vs a scrambler pistol, you'd be doing 0.675 * 375% = 253% damage, which is still okay. And if you get hit by a sniper rifle, you'll still be hit at 131% damage instead of 195% so it's still effective, if at a reduced level.

Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 174	Posted - 2013.10.23 01:39:00 - [11] - Quote I rather have 5-10 percent light weapon/ small explosion damage resist for heavies. It takes skill to make an headshot, lets not punish people able to.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2296	Posted - 2013.10.23 02:13:00 - [12] - Quote Snail Super wrote: No. That would make my scrambler pistol absolutely useless against a Heavy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc Okay...?
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 95	Posted - 2013.10.23 03:18:00 - [13] - Quote Nope, 3 reasons, scr pistol, sniper, scr rifle charged shot
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2300	Posted - 2013.10.23 03:19:00 - [14] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Nope, 3 reasons, scr pistol, sniper, scr rifle charged shot sniper is the only one that will get a headshot bonus. Too bad about the other guns, deal with it
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1284	Posted - 2013.10.23 03:48:00 - [15] - Quote OR... Crazy thought... We could buff the HMG, since it is a heavy weapon....
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 11	Posted - 2013.10.23 03:58:00 - [16] - Quote I don't think this is the way to help heavies. It might help somewhat, but there are more fundamental issues (AR DPS, HMG effectiveness, overall damage output in the game, etc.) that need a close look at before headshots.
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition 41	Posted - 2013.10.23 10:17:00 - [17] - Quote probly a good idea.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 842	Posted - 2013.10.23 11:22:00 - [18] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Just a thought. Buzz off. Which suit do you use? If it is a Logi let's remove being able to carry any equipment and get WP for it. If the equip slots aren't used, then the CPU/PG will be cut in half, just for balance. Or a heavy we could make sure that Yours will be slower, cannot sprint but will only get WP if you hack supply depots. Assault you could be limited to Heavy Damage mods in the high slots and Militia gear in the low. Yeah, any of those would be good. Remove WP from others. I am good with the concept as long as it is you that loses out. Now get back under your bridge.
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 173	Posted - 2013.10.23 13:55:00 - [19] - Quote The main issue is not the suit, It's the weapon. We have a suit and weapon that throw punch at each other. HMG--> Low range, high (in theory) DPS: Weapon that need be use carefully, and CHOOSE the "engagement " FatMan--> slow suit, Lot of armor, suit that is for point defense ( As CCP says) CANT CHOOSE the "engagement" I think it's better change the weapon that the suit, since doing this prevent AR scrub to jump on he heavy suit and use it for gunning down people with AR.
Lanius Pulvis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 23	Posted - 2013.10.23 15:33:00 - [20] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Nope, 3 reasons, scr pistol, sniper, scr rifle charged shot sniper is the only one that will get a headshot bonus. Too bad about the other guns, deal with it You do realize a Scrambler Pistol gets 450% against head shields and 300+ against head armor right?

mordiby G.R.A.V.E 19	Posted - 2013.10.23 16:01:00 - [21] - Quote Heavy's hardly have a neck, why punish everyone even more?
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2086	Posted - 2013.10.23 16:02:00 - [22] - Quote Why not just buff the heavy eHP a little bit?
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2318	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:18:00 - [23] - Quote Lanius Pulvis wrote: You do realize a Scrambler Pistol gets 450% against head shields and 300+ against head armor right? Yes, too bad. Your case is that you're defensive of those two weapons because you use them. This change to the heavy wouldn't assist me in anyway being a Gallente Assault with AR and SP but heavies need to be practical again. I'm not selfish enough to base the game around my likeness.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 135	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:36:00 - [24] - Quote The heavy suit was designed to be a tank sort of mmo character, yet with the insane damage levels we have make being one more of a burden. They make slow targets with slightly higher hps than assault, and marginal aga other logi. A good fix is to buff hp dramatically, but that does not help much for the heads hot damage. Instead, I believe adding resistances to the suit a better fix. Negate all extra explosive damage so it is down to 100%, as they have maybe a 2-3% chance to get out of the way of them and dusties see a heavy, throw down a hive and spam grenades from cover. Also add in 5-10% damage resistance to small arms as well. This would make them tanky, yet leaves them a weakness (the head shot). In a rpg, the tank has high hp as well as resistaneswhile dealing less damage than others. The less damage here isI the HMG, so leave it as is. Once the different racial suits drop, adjust the resistances per suit to match it's manufacturers preferred stats.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2324	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:39:00 - [25] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: The heavy suit was designed to be a tank sort of mmo character, yet with the insane damage levels we have make being one more of a burden. They make slow targets with slightly higher hps than assault, and marginal aga other logi. A good fix is to buff hp dramatically, but that does not help much for the heads hot damage. Instead, I believe adding resistances to the suit a better fix. Negate all extra explosive damage so it is down to 100%, as they have maybe a 2-3% chance to get out of the way of them and dusties see a heavy, throw down a hive and spam grenades from cover. Also add in 5-10% damage resistance to small arms as well. This would make them tanky, yet leaves them a weakness (the head shot). In a rpg, the tank has high hp as well as resistaneswhile dealing less damage than others. The less damage here isI the HMG, so leave it as is. Once the different racial suits drop, adjust the resistances per suit to match it's manufacturers preferred stats. Good stuff, especially with the Resistances. Although you're going to have a lot of people crying about the small arms fire resistance.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 135	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:24:00 - [26] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Doshneil Antaro wrote: The heavy suit was designed to be a tank sort of mmo character, yet with the insane damage levels we have make being one more of a burden. They make slow targets with slightly higher hps than assault, and marginal aga other logi. A good fix is to buff hp dramatically, but that does not help much for the heads hot damage. Instead, I believe adding resistances to the suit a better fix. Negate all extra explosive damage so it is down to 100%, as they have maybe a 2-3% chance to get out of the way of them and dusties see a heavy, throw down a hive and spam grenades from cover. Also add in 5-10% damage resistance to small arms as well. This would make them tanky, yet leaves them a weakness (the head shot). In a rpg, the tank has high hp as well as resistaneswhile dealing less damage than others. The less damage here isI the HMG, so leave it as is. Once the different racial suits drop, adjust the resistances per suit to match it's manufacturers preferred stats. Good stuff, especially with the Resistances. Although you're going to have a lot of people crying about the small arms fire resistance. The resistance to small arms could go away for a HP buff, but it would look godly to see the jump from medium suits to the heavy . A heavy should have enough survivability to fight 1 vs 2, and kill one before the second downs him. The heavy has no way to make wps through equipment, are to slow to run and hack constantly for wps. Killing, even if slowly, is their bread and butter. In accordance to such changes, this would make forge gunning too OP. A quick fix, even unpopular one, would be to make the forge direct impact damage only. To combat the fact that the aim would suffer, adding a red dot to the center of the big circle would help improve spot on aim. These changes would have a backlash of course. Forge gunning from high spots would be harder to kill/dislodge. I have no ideas at this time to come at this issue. It just goes to show that because an idea has merit, the devs do not implement them, because they think about how these changes would affect the total game play mechanics, how they could be used, how they are probably be used, and most importantly, how they can be exploited. I think this is the reason that heavy's and scout's have not got the much needed love they deserve.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2325	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:28:00 - [27] - Quote Forge sniping is probably one of the biggest cancers in this game and I have zero idea how to solve it besides have it be direct damage only and even then that's not a solution but a very small amount of padding.
Lanius Pulvis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 24	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:37:00 - [28] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Lanius Pulvis wrote: You do realize a Scrambler Pistol gets 450% against head shields and 300+ against head armor right? Yes, too bad. Your case is that you're defensive of those two weapons because you use them. This change to the heavy wouldn't assist me in anyway being a Gallente Assault with AR and SP but heavies need to be practical again. I'm not selfish enough to base the game around my likeness. Actually I do use the SP, just because of the headshot damage. Are you saying that a class of suit deserves a specific exemption to a particular weapon or effect? In that case how about I get a Dropship invulnerable to all energy weapons....oh maybe because the Devs tried for BALANCE. Basically to shoot a heavy in the head I have to get extremely close or extremely far away, anything in the middle and I'm hamburger. This probably isn't your intent, but it sounds like you want the single drawback to being a heavy to be run speed.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2326	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:49:00 - [29] - Quote Lanius Pulvis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Lanius Pulvis wrote: You do realize a Scrambler Pistol gets 450% against head shields and 300+ against head armor right? Yes, too bad. Your case is that you're defensive of those two weapons because you use them. This change to the heavy wouldn't assist me in anyway being a Gallente Assault with AR and SP but heavies need to be practical again. I'm not selfish enough to base the game around my likeness. Actually I do use the SP, just because of the headshot damage. Are you saying that a class of suit deserves a specific exemption to a particular weapon or effect? In that case how about I get a Dropship invulnerable to all energy weapons....oh maybe because the Devs tried for BALANCE. Basically to shoot a heavy in the head I have to get extremely close or extremely far away, anything in the middle and I'm hamburger. This probably isn't your intent, but it sounds like you want the single drawback to being a heavy to be run speed. >Speed >Bigger hitbox >Decreased mobility and versatility >low strafe >No equipment >Low module slot >Logi dependent suit. Pros: +High HP (only slightly higher from tanked logis) +Use of heavy weapons (2) As of now , heavies are my favorite thing to headshot and obliterate in <4 seconds. I come from a distant time where heavies were something to fear and required thought to engage and not laugh at.
Lanius Pulvis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 25	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:56:00 - [30] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Lanius Pulvis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Lanius Pulvis wrote: You do realize a Scrambler Pistol gets 450% against head shields and 300+ against head armor right? Yes, too bad. Your case is that you're defensive of those two weapons because you use them. This change to the heavy wouldn't assist me in anyway being a Gallente Assault with AR and SP but heavies need to be practical again. I'm not selfish enough to base the game around my likeness. Actually I do use the SP, just because of the headshot damage. Are you saying that a class of suit deserves a specific exemption to a particular weapon or effect? In that case how about I get a Dropship invulnerable to all energy weapons....oh maybe because the Devs tried for BALANCE. Basically to shoot a heavy in the head I have to get extremely close or extremely far away, anything in the middle and I'm hamburger. This probably isn't your intent, but it sounds like you want the single drawback to being a heavy to be run speed. >Speed >Bigger hitbox >Decreased mobility and versatility >low strafe >No equipment >Low module slot >Logi dependent suit. Pros: +High HP (only slightly higher from tanked logis) +Use of heavy weapons (2) As of now , heavies are my favorite thing to headshot and obliterate in <4 seconds. I come from a distant time where heavies were something to fear and required thought to engage and not laugh at. Although I agree with you about Heavies needing a buff, giving them that specific a resistance shouldn't be the answer. Also I'm sure you realize the irony of an AR user saying a Heavy needs a buff because he's too easy to kill. I rather like Dashneil's suggestions though, they seem to cover many of the issues. Right now though if you're a non AR user against a moderately skilled Heavy who knows what he's doing...they can still be an engagement changer. I would be in favor of changes that still leave an Achilles heel.



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