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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
112
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Posted - 2013.10.23 16:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm going to say some controversial things in my post, I know many of you won't agree with them and that is fine. The heavy as it is sucks, it has no purpose, it can be out Ehped by other classes which is fricking ridiculous, the HMG can be out dpsed at close range by other guns, yeah I know paper stats it is the best, until you factor in that other guns get 2xto 3x the amount of headshots that the HMG will ever be able to deliver. Along with the fact that the HMG has a spin up time which really isn't supposed to be there if you read the description of the weapon, least on some of them. The heavy is pathetic in close quarters combat, medium combat, and especially long range combat, except for the forge gun, which every heavy is starting to use now even those that wish they could keep to the HMG. All this being said I will now bullet point my suggestions.
-All heavy suits should get at least a 25% increase in shield and armor, at advanced-proto level it should take 2 hits from a forge gun to kill a heavy (How stuipid is it that a milita gun, can kill a fully decked out proto heavy in 1 hit, that is literally saying a gun costing less then 1k of isk can smash a proto costing more then 400k in one hit consistenly)
-All heavies should have their speed reduced by 25-30%, this is a lumbering suit of death it isn't made to be fast, it is made to be a terrifying beast of war, that can "take on tanks"
-Small weapon damage, should do 10-20% less damage to heavies
-Explosive weapons, should do 20% less damage
-HMG's should do 2x the damage they currently do and have 10m additional range from what they have currently, spread keeps the same as it is to avoid being to powerful. HMG should also take up both weapon slots, from how powerful and heavy it is. As in real life, movies, etc, this needs to be a terrifying gun that people run away from that can mow down entire groups of people who are stuipid enough to frontal assault this weapon. With how slow the heavy is, this should easily be able to be countered with speed and good tactics, the HMG would become a crowd control gun and objective defense.
-repair tools do 15-25% extra to heavy suits, this is so that the repair tool can do the intended focus it was made for and allow for true tanking by shield or armor.
This is all for now please comment as you see fit.
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lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
112
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Slag Emberforge wrote:lithkul devant wrote:I'm going to say some controversial things in my post, I know many of you won't agree with them and that is fine. The heavy as it is sucks, it has no purpose, it can be out Ehped by other classes which is fricking ridiculous, the HMG can be out dpsed at close range by other guns, yeah I know paper stats it is the best, until you factor in that other guns get 2xto 3x the amount of headshots that the HMG will ever be able to deliver. Along with the fact that the HMG has a spin up time which really isn't supposed to be there if you read the description of the weapon, least on some of them. The heavy is pathetic in close quarters combat, medium combat, and especially long range combat, except for the forge gun, which every heavy is starting to use now even those that wish they could keep to the HMG. All this being said I will now bullet point my suggestions.
-All heavy suits should get at least a 25% increase in shield and armor, at advanced-proto level it should take 2 hits from a forge gun to kill a heavy (How stuipid is it that a milita gun, can kill a fully decked out proto heavy in 1 hit, that is literally saying a gun costing less then 1k of isk can smash a proto costing more then 400k in one hit consistenly)
-All heavies should have their speed reduced by 25-30%, this is a lumbering suit of death it isn't made to be fast, it is made to be a terrifying beast of war, that can "take on tanks"
-Small weapon damage, should do 10-20% less damage to heavies
-Explosive weapons, should do 20% less damage
-HMG's should do 2x the damage they currently do and have 10m additional range from what they have currently, spread keeps the same as it is to avoid being to powerful. HMG should also take up both weapon slots, from how powerful and heavy it is. As in real life, movies, etc, this needs to be a terrifying gun that people run away from that can mow down entire groups of people who are stuipid enough to frontal assault this weapon. With how slow the heavy is, this should easily be able to be countered with speed and good tactics, the HMG would become a crowd control gun and objective defense.
-repair tools do 15-25% extra to heavy suits, this is so that the repair tool can do the intended focus it was made for and allow for true tanking by shield or armor.
This is all for now please comment as you see fit.
Heavies definitely need love, but that's a bit over the top Your list: +25% eHP +10-20% DR +15-25% Healing from repair tool HMG - 2x damage +10m effective So they have massively more health and they gain an additional 12.5 to 25 equivalent of go by damage resist. This takes them to 1.375 - 1.5 current standings meaning they could easily have over 2k ehp and since the HMG is now massively effective due to enhanced range and close proximity people would die almost instantly. But that's ok they still can use effective line of sight with explosives nope damage nerfed, ok how bout head shots with a sniper rifle? Nope it'll take steady three shots with a charged sniper rifle or four otherwise. Which won't work at all if he has a rep. Ok so now the only counter for Hmg heavies are FG heavies. Too much. For heavy to fill its roll I would recommend a modest 10-15% eHP buff and a 20% reduction in dispersion which by itself would give the HMG a decent range. Done. If stagger was introduced I'd be ok with a compromise of dispersion/maximum distance increase but it should not have the same effective range as an AR, especially if you factor in a "shake" or jarring effect
Alright, a 10-15% eHP buff would be effective, the main reason behind the Hit point buff I suggested is so that heavies can survive 1 Forge gun blast, 2nd forge gun blast is death. While listing in my reasons I also suggested a massive reduction in movement speed, making it so that the heavy if out in the open or not using any cover at all is going to have problems, very slow, very lumbering. Also, your information about the HMG is incorrect about the range values, even if it was buffed up 10m the HMG would not have the same firing range or capacity as a AR, an AR can effectively kill people from over 100 yards away, reference the Duoville Assault Rifle.
The whole point in the build of the heavy I am suggesting is that it does in fact take 2-3 or perhaphs 4 people to kill the heavy, however, the heavy can't move fast, it can't chase and if it is in a bad position it is dead. The whole purpose of such a unit would be crowd control and objective guarding or a heavy push to an objective. Without support these units will die to scouts as they currently do, especially if the scouts are using RE's or shotguns. Also, a heavy machine gun is something in real life that is capable of killing tanks, I am not suggesting that this be a cheap suit, I would actually be insisting on a price increase.
Other counters to the heavy build is, gernades (can't move out of the way), mass drivers (can't move out of the way, can arch shots), sniper rifles (easy head shots), tanks, plasma cannon, Asault Rifle at a distance. The reason the assault rifle would still be better at a distance is because of the included dispersion factor that is left in the HMG, a heavy is basically like a minature tank that can walk, it is even made to look that way.
25%-30% move decrease as the standard, this is a great equalizer, especially when if you are to add additional armor, it's going to get to be hugely slow even if you are spriting someone could walk away from you and be faster then you. |
lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
112
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:lithkul devant wrote:
Alright, a 10-15% eHP buff would be effective, the main reason behind the Hit point buff I suggested is so that heavies can survive 1 Forge gun blast, 2nd forge gun blast is death. While listing in my reasons I also suggested a massive reduction in movement speed, making it so that the heavy if out in the open or not using any cover at all is going to have problems, very slow, very lumbering. Also, your information about the HMG is incorrect about the range values, even if it was buffed up 10m the HMG would not have the same firing range or capacity as a AR, an AR can effectively kill people from over 100 yards away, reference the Duoville Assault Rifle.
The whole point in the build of the heavy I am suggesting is that it does in fact take 2-3 or perhaphs 4 people to kill the heavy, however, the heavy can't move fast, it can't chase and if it is in a bad position it is dead. The whole purpose of such a unit would be crowd control and objective guarding or a heavy push to an objective. Without support these units will die to scouts as they currently do, especially if the scouts are using RE's or shotguns. Also, a heavy machine gun is something in real life that is capable of killing tanks, I am not suggesting that this be a cheap suit, I would actually be insisting on a price increase.
Other counters to the heavy build is, gernades (can't move out of the way), mass drivers (can't move out of the way, can arch shots), sniper rifles (easy head shots), tanks, plasma cannon, Asault Rifle at a distance. The reason the assault rifle would still be better at a distance is because of the included dispersion factor that is left in the HMG, a heavy is basically like a minature tank that can walk, it is even made to look that way.
25%-30% move decrease as the standard, this is a great equalizer, especially when if you are to add additional armor, it's going to get to be hugely slow even if you are spriting someone could walk away from you and be faster then you.
Slowing down the heavy anymore will nullify the HP buff. Why bother increasing the HP by only 10-15% when you move slower? So instead of 1 nade killing you, it'll take 2 nades? Heavies are the ones that suffer most from general spam in this game. Anything that's being spammed, heavies can't dodge. So buffing HP by so little and slowing them down more = the same thing we have now. 2 steps fwd, 2 steps bck. if you're suggesting heavies need 2-4 to kill, then the HP has to increase by 50-100% AT LEAST. At that kind of HP buff then I can see slower movement speed needed for balance. Why not just give heavies a passive damage resistance to explosives? say 50-60% still wouldn't stop a remote mine but it'll take nades
2 posts were not included on this topic, scroll up and read, what I had originally suggested was 25% more armor and shields, along with damage resistance and to balance this a speed decrease. This was also paired up with a power upgrade and range upgrade to the HMG. The topic that is being refernced to is a followup, where a modest 10-15% Ehp buff was suggested and various reasons for disagreement with what I had said. |
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