heavy suit does not scale

needless to say I use militia and basic sentinel suits, the rest do not make sense.

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

It's great and all that heavies get this very slight buff, which imo, won't do anything but decrease your time to die by .2 seconds.

The problem isn't the eHP, the problem is the HMG is utter POOP!

I would admit, that having more HP is aright, in certain situations, like nade spam, but that might be a case of nerfing the nade in general. The fact that heavy suits have no resistance to explosions is also funny, but at this point I find it hard to laugh anymore.

Until the HMG gets a buff, the class will be a waste of time to use. Honestly. Just stop with trying to make the suit better. Heavies want to kill, and in 1v1 situations vs an assault player, 20% more base eHP does nothing.

Again this comes back to feedback and CCP NOT LISTENING.

Who said base eHP was a problem? Nobody cares about base eHP at this point, yet here we are, getting a buff to somewhere we didn't want. I guess now we can be quiet because we get a buff right?

This buff is useless. I'm sorry for being frank, and somewhat rude, but the time, money, and effort I put into this class seems to be for nothing, and CCP couldn't care less about about this part of the community because we're a minority in a game that's suppose to be about "diversity".

Don't forget about the repair tool love. G

This will also help the fatties, if used as a fatty loggy pairing.

Until the HMG gets a buff, the class will be a waste of time to use. Honestly. Just stop with trying to make the suit better. Heavies want to kill, and in 1v1 situations vs an assault player, 20% more base eHP does nothing.

Not to slight accountants in any way, but I really am not, I'm an engineer

I work closely with the Dust team, so even not actively developing, can (sometimes) influence what is developed.

To address some of the questions.

I don't think I said the heavy was PC competitive, if you read my comment, I said it could be used situationally, and not everyone knows about the crouching, I think it's been kept a little secret in the community. I don't think I ever advocated crouching constantly out in the open all the time.

We are increasing the effective ehp by 20% in 1.6 which will help.

On the forums, I am sharing my thoughts as a player, and also to get feedback and discussions, about things that interest me as a player or playstyles that I am not personally familiar with

We absolutely try to source information from the CPM, forums, internal metrics and logs, and of course, our own experience. All these play a part in the decision making process.

So let's keep the feedback positive and detailed, many posts in this thread are superb in that aspect, and have certainly helped me understand the heavy's concerns better.

Not to slight accountants in any way, but I really am not, I'm an engineer

I work closely with the Dust team, so even not actively developing, can (sometimes) influence what is developed.

To address some of the questions.

I don't think I said the heavy was PC competitive, if you read my comment, I said it could be used situationally, and not everyone knows about the crouching, I think it's been kept a little secret in the community. I don't think I ever advocated crouching constantly out in the open all the time.

We are increasing the effective ehp by 20% in 1.6 which will help.

On the forums, I am sharing my thoughts as a player, and also to get feedback and discussions, about things that interest me as a player or playstyles that I am not personally familiar with

We absolutely try to source information from the CPM, forums, internal metrics and logs, and of course, our own experience. All these play a part in the decision making process.

So let's keep the feedback positive and detailed, many posts in this thread are superb in that aspect, and have certainly helped me understand the heavy's concerns better.

We are increasing the effective ehp by 20% in 1.6 which will help.

The community wants a new vote on CPM honestly.

On the forums, I am sharing my thoughts as a player, and also to get feedback and discussions, about things that interest me as a player or playstyles that I am not personally familiar with

not everyone knows about the crouching, I think it's been kept a little secret in the community.

Not to slight accountants in any way, but I really am not, I'm an engineer

I work closely with the Dust team, so even not actively developing, can (sometimes) influence what is developed.

To address some of the questions.

I don't think I said the heavy was PC competitive, if you read my comment, I said it could be used situationally, and not everyone knows about the crouching, I think it's been kept a little secret in the community. I don't think I ever advocated crouching constantly out in the open all the time.

We are increasing the effective ehp by 20% in 1.6 which will help.

On the forums, I am sharing my thoughts as a player, and also to get feedback and discussions, about things that interest me as a player or playstyles that I am not personally familiar with

We absolutely try to source information from the CPM, forums, internal metrics and logs, and of course, our own experience. All these play a part in the decision making process.
So let's keep the feedback positive and detailed, many posts in this thread are superb in that aspect, and have certainly helped me understand the heavy's concerns better.

So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.

Thanks to Dev for sharing and being engaged in community discussion. Having said this... Why does a dev not know about limitations of a weapon. Why do you have to play long and hard to see what works and what does not and if it does how it works in a game that you built? I am not trolling in the least - this is truly a very important question. Why do you guys have to go through some strange round about ways to know which things are not working right?

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

so be a stationary target with a bigger hitbox in a shooter where Duvolles with aim assist and triple dmg mods can hit you at 100m?

sounds legit.

im a scout and this 'ur doing it wrong' in regards to other classes needs to stop. Heavies and Scouts need your attention not your jokes.

Why should anyone care about heavies, they're lazy, fat, arrogant assholes. They are worse then the slayer kids, they don't do anything for anyone else, their fat asses eat up all the nanohives, and they hog the armor reps.

**** you heavies, **** you

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

I base my estimation of the effectiveness of the HMG vs an Assault Rifle on those instances where I had the little dot at the center of the aiming circle placed squarely on their chest or head, and they still gunned me down without moving or strafing.

As far as I can tell the HMG has the advantage at 5m but by the time you get to 10m the AR does more damage. This is different when crouched, but then when crouched the heavy is a sitting duck.

I don't base my comparison between the HMG and the AR on situations where I miss. And yes, there are plenty of those situations. It is those few situations when I had the clear advantage, had the shot lined up, and still died, that I base my evaluation on.

The only place in PC where the HMG is viable is in the city maps but then it lags so bad I die anyways.

Problem is that it doesn't work in PC. It essentially makes you a stationary target, and most of the incoming shots will hit your head which kills you that much faster.

When everybody is using proto they have too much HP to kill effectively with that tactic. But their accuracy is absolutely perfect, and they get the ability to strafe to dodge your shots. You will get dropped instantly.

CCP = Trolling Level 5 with Prof 5. I've been saying it for a while. They key is to not care about new gear until it is released then only put one level into it and only use it on cheap suits. Determine for yourself that it is either OP or UP and if you like using it. If it is UP then use it for fun and if it is OP then get ready to be nerfed. If you like it keep using it.

I do understand why medium suits and rifles are the first things out but some love for the fat girls would be fun also. I don't push heavy suits but we need players not rifles. Putting suits and non light weapons into the game should be on the front burner along with vehicles. CCP we need players to come back to the game and stay and my suggestion is for you to put vehicles and heavy suits/weapons out soon. Not TM, like now.

It is good to see you fired up some more Lance. I thought we lost you for a while.

$5 says the combat rifle (which is supposed to be an upgrade of the SMG) out performs HMG in almost every regard.

Thanks guys, I mean the Assault SMG variant already was teetering on the fence and its a sidearm, if the "light" variant is better at all it will outclass the heavy weapon no problem.

What's the point of defense or "suppression" if the targets don't die? They can still spam you with nades. You can't defend an objective if you're scaring people. Only so far suppression goes, and personally, I think an HMG is suppose to KILL!

IT'S A HEAVY MACHINE GUN SHOOTING TO KILL!

It's not a heavy suppression gun.

As people mentioned here and elsewhere, the game is balanced around stuff that's not in the game. So they balanced the HMG to suit this, and here we are today. Using a crappy gun that tickles people to death, and have a suit with a bonus for a weapon THAT'S NOT IN THE GAME. Like... what kind of logic was this?

"Hey guys, we're giving you a suit that has a bonus for laser based weapons. Now go forth!"

CCP Dev: "Little do they know, there's no heavy weapon that makes use of this bonus...THEY'LL NEVER FIGURE THIS OUT! hahahaha! I got you guys good! Get trolled!"

I would think leaving the HMG as is and adding a suppression effect would be good IF it can hit multiple targets within its cone. This would be a different philosophy from the "mobile wall" concept I proposed earlier in the thread, and makes the heavy more important for crowd control. Only marginally better for point defense, though: using basic flanking, a pair could still eliminate a heavy pretty quickly.

I think this behavior might be better for a scrambler heavy weapon, though. Crowd control seems like something the Amarr would be into (you wouldn't want to kill valuable slaves if you could incapacitate them). It would be a slow way to kill 1v1, but team vs. team would make a huge difference.

Which goes back to the OP: When do we get more heavy weapons? And do they have interesting characteristics consistent with a philosophy, or are they just more ways to apply simple damage?

The only place in PC where the HMG is viable is in the city maps but then it lags so bad I die anyways.

you make it sound like i care about the AR which i dont. when i started dust i was a real good sniper and a mediocre shotguner, being a heavy was next but i decided to go AR. i am probably the worst person you can tell that i care about something. If its such an easy weapon will you ever get 40 kills in a pc with it? pretty sure not

Heavy does not mean difficult to use. It means heavier than light. As in, deals heavier fire power. Not heavy as in "holy **** i can't lift this thing".

What? Being a Heavy is awesome.

We have 2 weapons in the game.

We have a Heavy Grenade slot with no Heavy Grenades in the game.

We have a suit with a bonus for a gun that doesn't exist, and a bonus that is simply laughable.

For like an entire year, one of the two guns had hit detection issues.

After they fixed the hit detection issue for the one gun, they nerfed the other gun into the ground.

We are the slowest suit, with the largest hit box, with an average EHP attainable by Logi suits, and we get to sacrifice our equipment slots to use a whole bunch of **** that doesn't even exist yet.

Kudos to you CCP, keep adding more fuckin rifles to the game.

eHP means nothing when there's medium suits that can tank 1000+ eHP and have FAR better mobility + equipment slots

Yes, I have. And there are people who troll with those things. It's called a HEAVY machine gun. Of course, it's not gonna be easy to use. Big guns never really are, no matter how unrealistic the developers make them.

Plasma Cannon+Nova Knives Gallente Scout?

What? Being a Heavy is awesome.

We have 2 weapons in the game.

We have a Heavy Grenade slot with no Heavy Grenades in the game.

We have a suit with a bonus for a gun that doesn't exist, and a bonus that is simply laughable.

For like an entire year, one of the two guns had hit detection issues.

After they fixed the hit detection issue for the one gun, they nerfed the other gun into the ground.

We are the slowest suit, with the largest hit box, with an average EHP attainable by Logi suits, and we get to sacrifice our equipment slots to use a whole bunch of **** that doesn't even exist yet.

Kudos to you CCP, keep adding more fuckin rifles to the game.

you make it sound like i care about the AR which i dont. when i started dust i was a real good sniper and a mediocre shotguner, being a heavy was next but i decided to go AR. i am probably the worst person you can tell that i care about something. If its such an easy weapon will you ever get 40 kills in a pc with it? pretty sure not

you make it sound like i care about the AR which i dont. when i started dust i was a real good sniper and a mediocre shotguner, being a heavy was next but i decided to go AR. i am probably the worst person you can tell that i care about something. If its such an easy weapon will you ever get 40 kills in a pc with it? pretty sure not

What's there to QQ about. It's an easy weapon to use, so it's the weapon of choice. The thread was about heavies and their lack of content, and how mediocre they are.

So defensive about your weapon

.... or just put in the stagger and shake effect.

I'm going to say some controversial things in my post, I know many of you won't agree with them and that is fine. The heavy as it is sucks, it has no purpose, it can be out Ehped by other classes which is fricking ridiculous, the HMG can be out dpsed at close range by other guns, yeah I know paper stats it is the best, until you factor in that other guns get 2xto 3x the amount of headshots that the HMG will ever be able to deliver. Along with the fact that the HMG has a spin up time which really isn't supposed to be there if you read the description of the weapon, least on some of them. The heavy is pathetic in close quarters combat, medium combat, and especially long range combat, except for the forge gun, which every heavy is starting to use now even those that wish they could keep to the HMG. All this being said I will now bullet point my suggestions.

-All heavy suits should get at least a 25% increase in shield and armor, at advanced-proto level it should take 2 hits from a forge gun to kill a heavy (How stuipid is it that a milita gun, can kill a fully decked out proto heavy in 1 hit, that is literally saying a gun costing less then 1k of isk can smash a proto costing more then 400k in one hit consistenly)

-All heavies should have their speed reduced by 25-30%, this is a lumbering suit of death it isn't made to be fast, it is made to be a terrifying beast of war, that can "take on tanks"

-Small weapon damage, should do 10-20% less damage to heavies

-Explosive weapons, should do 20% less damage

-HMG's should do 2x the damage they currently do and have 10m additional range from what they have currently, spread keeps the same as it is to avoid being to powerful. HMG should also take up both weapon slots, from how powerful and heavy it is. As in real life, movies, etc, this needs to be a terrifying gun that people run away from that can mow down entire groups of people who are stuipid enough to frontal assault this weapon. With how slow the heavy is, this should easily be able to be countered with speed and good tactics, the HMG would become a crowd control gun and objective defense.

-repair tools do 15-25% extra to heavy suits, this is so that the repair tool can do the intended focus it was made for and allow for true tanking by shield or armor.

This is all for now please comment as you see fit.

i think the main point of this post is that us heavies are lacking in weapons when everyone else gets something new and shiny to try out.

i have no problems playing as a heavy my highest KD was 36K 5D but thats not the main topic here

i would however like to see something new for us heavies, is there at least an idea of when we will receive something new for us? and answering soonTM isn't a viable answer would it be coming out this year or do we have to wait till next year?

You know D, I've seen you make posts like this before. And I've always taken issue with your assumptions of how much damage is lost due to dispersion/hit detection/etc.

I took issue to it because you'd basically make up a number and then treat it like a fact, along side confirmable facts like base DPS.

However, this:



That looks pretty close to my experience in game. Looks like you've been refining your process, and I can respect that.

So +1, but do be please careful about making up numbers, and be clear when you're inserting a gut-check percentage into your equation. (For instance: losing 25% damage to dispersion. We both know that is not confirmable.)

another 10 page AR qq thread?

A whole lot of stuff.

.........So you haven't already seen the damage the heavy machine gun CAN ALREADY do then.

Good lord walls of text.

Here's my two cents on the survivability improvement.
- I don't think even heavies should survive more than one direct hit, but even if I did a massive speed nerf would make lining up the shot painfully easy and that eHP would not account for much of anything, if anything it would prevent getting into cover and ensure more enemy shots land on you, in the long run.. I don't see much gain.

- Base improvement on eHP this needs to be addressed, not for forge guns just for being able to actually take a hit

- I do think heavies need just a bit more, frankly I'm a bit confused why there is no passive armor regeneration, with such an expansive suit it would only make sense that they would have some repair built in as they are unable to carry hives to rep

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

About new assault rifles? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1412603#post1412603

[FEEDBACK] Balancing Assault Rifle and TAR - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112035&find=unread
Status: We are going to release some changes to ranges, and additionally, 1.7 will give players new rifles to play with, and we will keep monitoring their performance on TQ.

2 posts were not included on this topic, scroll up and read, what I had originally suggested was 25% more armor and shields, along with damage resistance and to balance this a speed decrease. This was also paired up with a power upgrade and range upgrade to the HMG. The topic that is being refernced to is a followup, where a modest 10-15% Ehp buff was suggested and various reasons for disagreement with what I had said.

Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games.

There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing.

Yes, I have. And there are people who troll with those things. It's called a HEAVY machine gun. Of course, it's not gonna be easy to use. Big guns never really are, no matter how unrealistic the developers make them.

Gotta love the lack of care for the heavy coming from CCP. Seriously, just take the class out of the game. Like the dropships and Marauder tanks, just take it out til it's actually useful.

It's pathetic that after a year and a half the heavy class still only has 1 anti infantry weapon specific to its class. DUST is about diversity I was told... LOL! Only diversity in this game is who can spam proto nades the best.

This game is about medium suits + Assault rifles.

Everyone is a slayer. Scout is almost useless, and heavies defending is laughable because they're a proto hipster glorified camper now.

I say it again, heavies will soon become a dinosaur. Extinct and a distant memory. What a joke. From being a feared, and well respected class to being a joke in DUST

Well done.

Why not just give heavies a passive damage resistance to explosives? say 50-60% still wouldn't stop a remote mine but it'll take nades

Slowing down the heavy anymore will nullify the HP buff. Why bother increasing the HP by only 10-15% when you move slower?

So instead of 1 nade killing you, it'll take 2 nades? Heavies are the ones that suffer most from general spam in this game. Anything that's being spammed, heavies can't dodge. So buffing HP by so little and slowing them down more = the same thing we have now.

2 steps fwd, 2 steps bck.

if you're suggesting heavies need 2-4 to kill, then the HP has to increase by 50-100% AT LEAST. At that kind of HP buff then I can see slower movement speed needed for balance.

SO MUCH TEXT

Alright, a 10-15% eHP buff would be effective, the main reason behind the Hit point buff I suggested is so that heavies can survive 1 Forge gun blast, 2nd forge gun blast is death. While listing in my reasons I also suggested a massive reduction in movement speed, making it so that the heavy if out in the open or not using any cover at all is going to have problems, very slow, very lumbering. Also, your information about the HMG is incorrect about the range values, even if it was buffed up 10m the HMG would not have the same firing range or capacity as a AR, an AR can effectively kill people from over 100 yards away, reference the Duoville Assault Rifle.

The whole point in the build of the heavy I am suggesting is that it does in fact take 2-3 or perhaphs 4 people to kill the heavy, however, the heavy can't move fast, it can't chase and if it is in a bad position it is dead. The whole purpose of such a unit would be crowd control and objective guarding or a heavy push to an objective. Without support these units will die to scouts as they currently do, especially if the scouts are using RE's or shotguns. Also, a heavy machine gun is something in real life that is capable of killing tanks, I am not suggesting that this be a cheap suit, I would actually be insisting on a price increase.

Other counters to the heavy build is, gernades (can't move out of the way), mass drivers (can't move out of the way, can arch shots), sniper rifles (easy head shots), tanks, plasma cannon, Asault Rifle at a distance. The reason the assault rifle would still be better at a distance is because of the included dispersion factor that is left in the HMG, a heavy is basically like a minature tank that can walk, it is even made to look that way.

25%-30% move decrease as the standard, this is a great equalizer, especially when if you are to add additional armor, it's going to get to be hugely slow even if you are spriting someone could walk away from you and be faster then you.

Heavies definitely need love, but that's a bit over the top
Your list:
+25% eHP
+10-20% DR
+15-25% Healing from repair tool
HMG - 2x damage +10m effective

So they have massively more health and they gain an additional 12.5 to 25 equivalent of go by damage resist. This takes them to 1.375 - 1.5 current standings meaning they could easily have over 2k ehp and since the HMG is now massively effective due to enhanced range and close proximity people would die almost instantly. But that's ok they still can use effective line of sight with explosives nope damage nerfed, ok how bout head shots with a sniper rifle? Nope it'll take steady three shots with a charged sniper rifle or four otherwise.

Which won't work at all if he has a rep.

Ok so now the only counter for Hmg heavies are FG heavies. Too much.


For heavy to fill its roll I would recommend a modest 10-15% eHP buff and a 20% reduction in dispersion which by itself would give the HMG a decent range. Done.

If stagger was introduced I'd be ok with a compromise of dispersion/maximum distance increase but it should not have the same effective range as an AR, especially if you factor in a "shake" or jarring effect

Just because your weapon should be better at cqc engagements on paper does not mean a whole lot if you cannot hit your intended target, ive got a friend who is extremely bad at FPS games, he gets extremely frustrated each time an opponent strafes and dances around evading his gunfire and to him, everyone should just stand still so he can kill them....

Ive had on multiple occasions because of multiple long engagements overheated my SCR like a scrub, Heavy ambushes me, i jump, get stuck in a rock unable to move, served like a Proto Pinata ona silver platter...heavy unleaches everything he has on me ...for a whole 5 seconds...while i am superheated, overheat ends and the heavy dies, he did not even manage to hit me in those 5 seconds and i was like right there unable to move....

I mean ....how bad can you get ? And while there are good heavies, most heavies are very bad players thinking the extra armor and HMG can save them from people who have 90%+ Accuracy Ratings...

Not gonna happen...

Yes, I have. And there are people who troll with those things. It's called a HEAVY machine gun. Of course, it's not gonna be easy to use. Big guns never really are, no matter how unrealistic the developers make them.

LOLL Are u kidding?
My heavy suit has over 1600 hp .. add a duvolle assault or tac ... no medium in the world has a shot
Us heavies want a laser hmg , a plasma hmg ... or something close to that
We need more variety asap

Add the Carthum Scrambler to the list of rifles that out damage the Boundless HMG within it's optimal range. Had it happen twice in the same corridor in the same match. Duvolles and GEKs I've known about for a while. And I know all of you AR users will just see this as Heavy QQing which is fine. See it however you like. When things are tipped in your favor, it's just human nature to defend that status quo. Most of you have never touched the Heavy or HMG so it's not your problem, so long as you continue to get your kills. You just know that it's fine, and we need to stop complaining about it. So I understand that I'm not going to convince you of anything. That is not my intent. I do hope however that CCP will take this and other feedback into consideration and at least attempt to address this issue that affects many in their player base.

I also understand now why this is sometimes referred to as AR 514. I didn't before. It was frustrating losing confrontations that I thought I should have won simply because my opponent danced around a little bit, or jumped, still landing pinpoint accurate shots, or sometimes just simply stood there and out damaged me (like in the corridor mentioned above), or somehow because hits just stopped registering for some reason. I chalked it up to just needing to skill up more, but no, it still happens with proto gear, complex mods, complex armor and the like. Rifles in this game just seem to out class a very broken HMG in situations that the HMG was supposedly made for.

As I've said in other posts, I've had some success with the HMG, but there are some situations where things seem very off kilter... very unbalanced.

lol...

Oh you mean the POTENTIAL DPS.

Guess you haven't fired an HMG huh? If you did you would have noticed the huge amount of bullet spread making the numbers game useless. The DPS on your screen is accurate if every bullet hits, and lol at every bullet from the HMG hitting.

The AR / SR has a better representation of their DPS as they're accurate weapons.

The more you know

Great derail without adressing anything.
You got the right skills for Dust 514, I'll give you that.

Guess you can't say anything about heavy dropsuits either, figured.

Sometimes you guys are a real joke.
Be glad that you're working in the game industry; at this standard.

If you want to be successful, skill into the weakest class and wait for the buff.

I quit the HMG heavy build and went AR assault months ago. I am still on strike and do not see myself going back. I was a heavy since beta and I cant believe the A** ream CCP gave us. Give up, move on and spec into something else. Just not scouts because they are CCP's 2nd b**** behind the heavy. I am angry beyond words over 3 Million into one build, I want my SP back. I have had bad luck when it comes to this game. Spec into heavy/hmg then its nerfed, spec into Cal Logi before the QQ and it was nerfed, went sniper got distant rendering and hit detection issues, now I went AR and Gal assault and now I am reading AR is soon to be nerfed. I am a basic rifle or HMG person I do not like ScR, Laser rifle not willing to go there just yet, shotgun has problems like HMG, not much more peaks my interest.


I am going to save my SP and hope that a weapon comes that is balanced and will not be nerfed by CCP. Still holding my breath

Well closed beta heavy compared to what we have now would be godly.

Hey Fox/Himiko,

I am the global head of FP&A at CCP, currently based in Iceland, and relocating with my family to Shanghai in January to help our efforts on Dust 514, joining CCP Rouge and the team there.

Given that I am also a fanatic player, you might call me a true believer in Dust 514 and its potential.

Hopefully they look at heavies again. SoTa said that scouts will be getting attention before heavies. That's cool, but why can't both classes get attention at the same time? Both are in a pretty bad spot

They donGt need a damage buff, they need a damage application buff.

Reduce the spread and more bullets will hit = damage buff without changing damage on paper.

Add the same Sharp Shooter Skill that SMG has. It reduces spread, which extends itGs optimal range in a manner of speaking, but does not actually increase the theoretical range of the weapon.

Essentially this would buff the HMGGs applied damage at ranges beyond 5m without any damage increase being mentioned in the patch notes, so the AR users would not get riled up.

give the HMG a damage buff inside 15m too. thats their killbox

if ur that close to a heavy ur doing it wrong.

this guy gets it. i'm not even a heavy and this is exactly how they should work.

more defense vs small arms fire but in the same vein it doesnt make sense to have them with solid movement. I think the scouts should be speed up a tad and heavies slowed down just a little.

On second thought maybe make it hard for them to speed up...biotics that make movement faster should only have a 25% effect on them. Some heavies will be faster (minmatar, gallente) but not fast per se.

I'm going to say some controversial things in my post, I know many of you won't agree with them and that is fine. The heavy as it is sucks, it has no purpose, it can be out Ehped by other classes which is fricking ridiculous, the HMG can be out dpsed at close range by other guns, yeah I know paper stats it is the best, until you factor in that other guns get 2xto 3x the amount of headshots that the HMG will ever be able to deliver. Along with the fact that the HMG has a spin up time which really isn't supposed to be there if you read the description of the weapon, least on some of them. The heavy is pathetic in close quarters combat, medium combat, and especially long range combat, except for the forge gun, which every heavy is starting to use now even those that wish they could keep to the HMG. All this being said I will now bullet point my suggestions.

-All heavy suits should get at least a 25% increase in shield and armor, at advanced-proto level it should take 2 hits from a forge gun to kill a heavy (How stuipid is it that a milita gun, can kill a fully decked out proto heavy in 1 hit, that is literally saying a gun costing less then 1k of isk can smash a proto costing more then 400k in one hit consistenly)

-All heavies should have their speed reduced by 25-30%, this is a lumbering suit of death it isn't made to be fast, it is made to be a terrifying beast of war, that can "take on tanks"

-Small weapon damage, should do 10-20% less damage to heavies

-Explosive weapons, should do 20% less damage

-HMG's should do 2x the damage they currently do and have 10m additional range from what they have currently, spread keeps the same as it is to avoid being to powerful. HMG should also take up both weapon slots, from how powerful and heavy it is. As in real life, movies, etc, this needs to be a terrifying gun that people run away from that can mow down entire groups of people who are stuipid enough to frontal assault this weapon. With how slow the heavy is, this should easily be able to be countered with speed and good tactics, the HMG would become a crowd control gun and objective defense.

-repair tools do 15-25% extra to heavy suits, this is so that the repair tool can do the intended focus it was made for and allow for true tanking by shield or armor.

This is all for now please comment as you see fit.

Hey Fox/Himiko,

I am the global head of FP&A at CCP, currently based in Iceland, and relocating with my family to Shanghai in January to help our efforts on Dust 514, joining CCP Rouge and the team there.

Given that I am also a fanatic player, you might call me a true believer in Dust 514 and its potential.

Because it spreads. Shotguns don't have AA.

About new assault rifles? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1412603#post1412603

[FEEDBACK] Balancing Assault Rifle and TAR - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112035&find=unread
Status: We are going to release some changes to ranges, and additionally, 1.7 will give players new rifles to play with, and we will keep monitoring their performance on TQ.

I must be playing a different game

We use At least one DS sometimes 2 if were multi squading in FW for fast insertion and extraction of infantry and never have a problem with birds getting shot down they appear to work fine. Maybe it's more to do with how you fly that's the issue.

We deploy at least 1 tank in one of the squads and very rarely lose it to AV as we allocate infantry support as needed again via drop from DS. Also we have three gunners the driver and 2 support with skills trained to level 5 in turret skills.

We deploy 2 heavies within our squads who destroy all before them with assault AR MD support.

So I'm totally confused why people think there broken maybe your just not using them as intended

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

snip It was frustrating losing confrontations that I thought I should have won simply because my opponent danced around a little bit, or jumped, still landing pinpoint accurate shots snip

The problem is, while other classes get better, the heavies have continually gotten worse over time. Chromosome was an epic time for heavies, and before that heavies were the gods on the battlefield requiring 2-3 guys to team fire. Now? One guy with an Assault rifle could take one down in a matter of seconds.

Heavies are no longer feared like they used to be, in fact a Caldari suit + AR is more feared than anything else.

Yes, if all the shots were headshots. xD

2 seconds is an Eternity during a gunfight, if you cannot react below those 2 seconds (at around 0.5-0.7 seconds an Average person should be returning fire, Pro's return fire after 0.3-0.4), i mean you will already need double the EHP that you now have to start reacting to enemy fire, thats 3k EHP heavies right there, how long should a heavy last while under AR fire for you to be happy about it, 3? 5, 10? Are we even allowed to kill it with a single clip ?

The main problem is the TTK (time to kill)

The Assault rifle kills players faster than they can react. The amount of ehp heavies have means nothing when they can't avoid the bullets.

Heavies need one of three things:

-Passive resistance to small arms (things like mass drivers, plasma cannons, with still do normal damage). Whether this becomes just a general resistance, or something that has to be skilled into (for instance, 5% resistance per level of Amarr sentinel), is up for debate.

-10% reduction to damage in general in this game. I don't like playing CoD simply because everyone dies in 0.2 seconds. The fact that you can kill a heavy in two second is sad, and doesn't bring the fear to the battlefield that they should.

-Increase the optimal range of HMG. This would keep players at range of HMGs, while allowing Heavies to engage enemies at a longer range.

Honestly, I think that the HMG would seem much more effective if the AR wasn't so accurate at range. The problem is with the AR having NO spread while ADS. This means that even when outside of your optimal, you just have to aim at the enemy and all of your bullets will shoot where you point. This doesn't make any sense, no other game does this, and it's the biggest part of unbalance in this game.

Heavies don't CARE about logi-bros. Only in pubs do they have a place since battle can calm down sometimes to repair. in PC the rep tool is pretty much just trash. It's better to have another gun shooting then a logi-bro repping. By far.

Get proto uplinks and triage. That's how you can best help your team and feel like a support class rather then the best slayer class who can do it all.

Np offense logi-bros. The core rep heals FAST. but not as fast as the devoulle kills.

Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games.

There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing.

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

The problem is, while other classes get better, the heavies have continually gotten worse over time. Chromosome was an epic time for heavies, and before that heavies were the gods on the battlefield requiring 2-3 guys to team fire. Now? One guy with an Assault rifle could take one down in a matter of seconds.

Heavies are no longer feared like they used to be, in fact a Caldari suit + AR is more feared than anything else.

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

Heavies don't CARE about logi-bros. Only in pubs do they have a place since battle can calm down sometimes to repair. in PC the rep tool is pretty much just trash. It's better to have another gun shooting then a logi-bro repping. By far.

Get proto uplinks and triage. That's how you can best help your team and feel like a support class rather then the best slayer class who can do it all.

Np offense logi-bros. The core rep heals FAST. but not as fast as the devoulle kills.

Heavies LOVE Logi Bros. Don't sweat it, he was referring to the Slayer fits with the crack at medium suits.

But im a logi i sacrifice all of my battle potential so i can keep by fellow blue dots alive.

Gotta love the lack of care for the heavy coming from CCP. Seriously, just take the class out of the game. Like the dropships and Marauder tanks, just take it out til it's actually useful.

It's pathetic that after a year and a half the heavy class still only has 1 anti infantry weapon specific to its class. DUST is about diversity I was told... LOL! Only diversity in this game is who can spam proto nades the best.

This game is about medium suits + Assault rifles.

Everyone is a slayer. Scout is almost useless, and heavies defending is laughable because they're a proto hipster glorified camper now.

I say it again, heavies will soon become a dinosaur. Extinct and a distant memory. What a joke. From being a feared, and well respected class to being a joke in DUST

Well done.

Everyone is a slayer. Scout is almost useless, and heavies defending is laughable because they're a proto hipster glorified camper now.

Well closed beta heavy compared to what we have now would be godly.

Hey Fox/Himiko,

I am the global head of FP&A at CCP, currently based in Iceland, and relocating with my family to Shanghai in January to help our efforts on Dust 514, joining CCP Rouge and the team there.

Given that I am also a fanatic player, you might call me a true believer in Dust 514 and its potential.

Not goldy just fixed

I have played as a heavy from February this year. Took a 2 week brake because of 1.5 not giving out new heavysuits or guns but I came back and this week I stopped playing as my heavy and went AR with shield base and armor base. Im going to clown on my self in this next few statements.

Heavys are a joke. Yes the huge natural EHP we have is nice and the HMG is nice but the fact is a Caldari assault can have the same amount as EHP as a heavy at base and move faster. Yes you can put more EHP on your heavy but there isnt any point. The SLOWER you are the MORE BULLETS you take.

Shoot a heavy in the head and they drop. Heavys HMG is very hard to have the bullets land on there head before the AR hits you in the face 20x with are huge head hitbox multiplier. Yes shooting at them will help after 2.3 seconds of missing bullets. You have to let the gun warm up before it starts working correctly. Then you have to worry about OVERHEATING NOW. If we crouch are HEAD IS VERY OPEN. It really doesn't help. I have died more from crouching then run,gun, and aim all at once.

In PC unless your a killer with the Six Kin Burst with Red battery's to run into there face FAST or you get the drop on them with the Boundless there isn't a place for heavys other then FG'ing up in the sky. If you have played against me in PC you know ill be running at you so my Six Kin if I want the kill before your Core hits me hopefully.

If you see a heavy moving slow at you what do you do in PC or PUB?
A) throw a CORE
B) shoot them in the face
C) both.
D) run into your team.

I see alot of C in PC and in PUBS mostly D.


I personally love being a Fat Boy and still might play as him but If someone ask's me "should I be a heavy" i will tell them no. Its a waste of SP. Limit to guns,suits, and module slots make this class VERY hard to play as. If you see a heavy in a Pub match and they are doing good. Dont bag on them. Give them props. To any heavy's that still play as your heavy Start QQ'ing!!! THINGS GET FIXED WHEN YOU QQ. I am a heavy and I do support this message.

Without a doubt. Lots of the anger toward the HMG would be solved with a sharpshooter skill.

For the vets it's strange to see people run toward heavies. In closed beta the HMG was feared. They should be a force again. It'll take another slot for a plate and a buff to the HMG for it to happen.

I wouldn't mind them having a built in armor rep as well.

Just make them more expensive like they used to be, but make them godly.

Crouching might work down a corridor, but if you're trying to avoid nade spam and MD spam, you're literally a sitting duck in this situation.

I will admit crouching has a magical effect on bullet spread, but there should be a skill to reduce that.

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

.........So you haven't already seen the damage the heavy machine gun CAN ALREADY do then.

Hey Fox/Himiko,

I am the global head of FP&A at CCP, currently based in Iceland, and relocating with my family to Shanghai in January to help our efforts on Dust 514, joining CCP Rouge and the team there.

Given that I am also a fanatic player, you might call me a true believer in Dust 514 and its potential.

I never saw the problem with chromosome spread or range.

The HMG is supposed to be deadlier than the AR. It is classified as an anti-infantry weapon. And HMG's realistically have more range than an AR.

Even in EVE, projectile autocannons outrange blasters (which is what an AR is), and larger weapon classes outrange smaller weapon classes.

So this is a weird inconsistency that makes very little sense. We already have enough drawbacks to justify additional range.

Hey Fox/Himiko

Actually Rattati, what do you do at CCP?

pretty much... at least we'll be getting 2 new AR variations to try out

some very good discussions here. linked it to the new EP and some other devs on twitter. next up is retuning the scout which is almost just as bad off. dont be a person who supports the class you use but could care less about anything else.

if ur a fan of this game at all and its balance u should be posting in the scout thread as well. no true dust fans wants to dominate with anything besides his skill. we want things balanced and operating as intended so that we can have a good experience even when the other guy wins.

some very good discussions here. linked it to the new EP and some other devs on twitter. next up is retuning the scout which is almost just as bad off. dont be a person who supports the class you use but could care less about anything else.

if ur a fan of this game at all and its balance u should be posting in the scout thread as well. no true dust fans wants to dominate with anything besides his skill. we want things balanced and operating as intended so that we can have a good experience even when the other guy wins.

Sad face, I have to continue to be an assault player while my heavy collects dust.

:[

No, it's because it can't hit that far.

Short range, plus dispersion that can't hit the broadside of a Titan is what makes heavies useless.

Moderate range buff, tighten dispersion.

Heavy fixed.

Hmmm, that seems familiar (read the quote)

The problem is, while other classes get better, the tanks have continually gotten worse over time. Chromosome was an epic time for tanks, and before that tanks were the gods on the battlefield requiring 2-3 guys to team fire. Now? One guy with AV nades could take one down in a matter of seconds.

Tanks are no longer feared like they used to be, in fact a Caldari suit + AR is more feared than anything else.

might be too much logic here...

Gotta love the lack of care for the heavy coming from CCP. Seriously, just take the class out of the game. Like the dropships and Marauder tanks, just take it out til it's actually useful.

It's pathetic that after a year and a half the heavy class still only has 1 anti infantry weapon specific to its class. DUST is about diversity I was told... LOL! Only diversity in this game is who can spam proto nades the best.

This game is about medium suits + Assault rifles.

Everyone is a slayer. Scout is almost useless, and heavies defending is laughable because they're a proto hipster glorified camper now.

I say it again, heavies will soon become a dinosaur. Extinct and a distant memory. What a joke. From being a feared, and well respected class to being a joke in DUST

Well done.

I dunno man. Headshot Immunity (+50% damage) > 20% Small Arms resistance.

Headshots are the only reason HMG loses to AR at mid-close range. It's a simple and brilliant fix...

give the HMG a damage buff inside 15m too. thats their killbox

if ur that close to a heavy ur doing it wrong.

20% base small arms resistance and 4% per level, increase the SP and ISK requirements but also buff the HMG, the FG is fine atm...

Heavies need a philosophy. Right now they resemble slow, tanked assault suits with no equipment. I've heard "point defense" before, but point defense isn't a philosophy.

My view is that heavies are for controlling the flow of battle. They can be used by field commanders to create walls and chokepoints, but lack the mobility to strike. You can rout your enemies toward your heavies, or you can simply block them off and shoot them down like fish in a barrel. This is why heavies work for point defense: they create a mobile wall in front of a point. But they're not just set-and-forget point defenders, they're actually critical components of any sophisticated battlefield tactics. They're the anvil to the assault's hammer.

From that standpoint, strengthening the suit against small arms fire and headshots would be great, but you do hit the nail on the head when it comes to the gun: in order for the heavy suit to be truly balanced, it should have drawbacks that mean it's rarely used except with a heavy weapon. That means the heavy weapons have to be powerful enough to counter drawbacks in the suit. They have to be fearsome enough to keep medium suits from standing out in front of heavies and shooting them down. A heavy should be able to engage three assaults--not to kill them in a 3-on-1 engagement, but a smart heavy should be able to hold them off for a decent amount of time. I think giving some kind of disruptive abilities to the heavy weapons could go a long way toward making that happen. The assaults should take cover, maybe throw some grenades and try to flank. A smart heavy controls the terms of engagement, prevents flanking and keeps enemies in front of him. Maybe heavies only get the headshot safety in the front?

All this has to be balanced by considering how the proposed heavy combo would play outside its role. A whole team of indestructible heavies is unquestionably a bad thing. I think this is already fairly well balanced by the heavy's mobility and range (a heavy out in the open will always be easy to drop), but it's something to watch.

Please, oh gods of DUST, give Heavies immunity to headshots from the front.

All would be right with the world.

Please, oh gods of DUST, give Heavies immunity to headshots from the front.

All would be right with the world.

There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc.

Gotta love the lack of care for the heavy coming from CCP. Seriously, just take the class out of the game. Like the dropships and Marauder tanks, just take it out til it's actually useful.

It's pathetic that after a year and a half the heavy class still only has 1 anti infantry weapon specific to its class. DUST is about diversity I was told... LOL! Only diversity in this game is who can spam proto nades the best.

This game is about medium suits + Assault rifles.

Everyone is a slayer. Scout is almost useless, and heavies defending is laughable because they're a proto hipster glorified camper now.

I say it again, heavies will soon become a dinosaur. Extinct and a distant memory. What a joke. From being a feared, and well respected class to being a joke in DUST

Well done.

A strong resistance skill would go a long way, but even if that gets put in it won't fix the HMG issue. It will just make the heavy suit the favorite suit for using a rifle.

There are a lot of ways to fix the HMG. Some people want more damage, some people want greatly decreased dispersion. Some people want a "stagger" effect when the HMG hits their target which slows them down and cripples their targets ability to aim. I could actually get on board with that one for the simple fact it would be a hilariously trolling tool and completely unique.

Who ever said this? Far as I'm concerned Heavies had decent range since closed beta all the way up to Chromosome. Only in Uprising they got this dumb range, and the power of a spitball.

I have no idea where this "heavies are only for cqc" garbage come from.

I never saw the problem with chromosome spread or range.

The HMG is supposed to be deadlier than the AR. It is classified as an anti-infantry weapon. And HMG's realistically have more range than an AR.

Even in EVE, projectile autocannons outrange blasters (which is what an AR is), and larger weapon classes outrange smaller weapon classes.

So this is a weird inconsistency that makes very little sense. We already have enough drawbacks to justify additional range.

Comparing Chromosome to Uprising, heavies were FAR better then than now.

I was also in the fight that Proto heavies were a joke, I made threads in the feedback section about it. I knew heavies back then were meh. They weren't bad, in corp matches, but they weren't a god send either.

Now they're just plain bad.

I guess you never learned that HMGs aren't supposed to operate at long ranges where spread would be a concern.

I strongly disagree that Heavies were OP back in Chromosome. The only reason anyone thinks that is because it was the beginning of a new Skill Wipe.

Heavies are OP in low leveled matches. When everyone's skillpoints are low and none of the higher tier stuff was out yet, a Heavy that rushed a Type-II suit plus an MH-82 was a god to any militia/standard fit. The total HP without modules and the raw power of the MH-82 made it incredibly difficult to deal with during the first weeks of Chrom. Even in Chromosome though, Heavies saw a severe drop off in power and capabilities as soon as the higher tier suits started to get unlocked. While the Tybe-B assaults were strong and the Prototype suits were godly, Heavies had to deal with a single slot increase with each tier and a 200K+ prototype suit.

People abused the fact that heavies were immensely strong at the beginning of chromosome, but at the end of it, they were no better than scouts. Heavies barely even had a place in the 8v8 corp matches back then. At least now they are needed for Forge Gun control and the removed range cap for the HMG makes distance battles better than your bullets disappearing after 60 meters.

I fully agree that Heavies need a buff. They are gimped in too many ways for that increased health and the ability to use heavy weapons... But please, take off the rose colored glasses. Chromosome wasn't much better, if at all.

I strongly disagree that Heavies were OP back in Chromosome. The only reason anyone thinks that is because it was the beginning of a new Skill Wipe.

Heavies are OP in low leveled matches. When everyone's skillpoints are low and none of the higher tier stuff was out yet, a Heavy that rushed a Type-II suit plus an MH-82 was a god to any militia/standard fit. The total HP without modules and the raw power of the MH-82 made it incredibly difficult to deal with during the first weeks of Chrom. Even in Chromosome though, Heavies saw a severe drop off in power and capabilities as soon as the higher tier suits started to get unlocked. While the Tybe-B assaults were strong and the Prototype suits were godly, Heavies had to deal with a single slot increase with each tier and a 200K+ prototype suit.

People abused the fact that heavies were immensely strong at the beginning of chromosome, but at the end of it, they were no better than scouts. Heavies barely even had a place in the 8v8 corp matches back then. At least now they are needed for Forge Gun control and the removed range cap for the HMG makes distance battles better than your bullets disappearing after 60 meters.

I fully agree that Heavies need a buff. They are gimped in too many ways for that increased health and the ability to use heavy weapons... But please, take off the rose colored glasses. Chromosome wasn't much better, if at all.

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

lol...

Oh you mean the POTENTIAL DPS.

Guess you haven't fired an HMG huh? If you did you would have noticed the huge amount of bullet spread making the numbers game useless. The DPS on your screen is accurate if every bullet hits, and lol at every bullet from the HMG hitting.

The AR / SR has a better representation of their DPS as they're accurate weapons.

The more you know

Heavies were feared back in Chromosome... OP? Maybe the range was.

Headshot reduction won't do much though, as the problem is will still be the weapon being weak. Yea it might make us survive a little longer, but the DPS of an AR will make that extra 6-9 bullets in no time flat.

You should know by that that the assaults and medium frames will get fleshed out first.

They gave them all of their suits first, and will give them all of their weapons before anything else, and all of the equipment related to their benefit before touching the diminished and starving population of heavies and scouts.

Those who are still playing heavies and scouts are there for the concept entirely

I did just fine in chrome is was about tactics then now it takes none

I never saw the problem with chromosome spread or range.

The HMG is supposed to be deadlier than the AR. It is classified as an anti-infantry weapon. And HMG's realistically have more range than an AR.

Even in EVE, projectile autocannons outrange blasters (which is what an AR is), and larger weapon classes outrange smaller weapon classes.

So this is a weird inconsistency that makes very little sense. We already have enough drawbacks to justify additional range.

Honesty.

lol...

Oh you mean the POTENTIAL DPS.

Guess you haven't fired an HMG huh? If you did you would have noticed the huge amount of bullet spread making the numbers game useless. The DPS on your screen is accurate if every bullet hits, and lol at every bullet from the HMG hitting.

The AR / SR has a better representation of their DPS as they're accurate weapons.

The more you know

I did just fine in chrome is was about tactics then now it takes none

Heavies were feared back in Chromosome... OP? Maybe the range was.

Headshot reduction won't do much though, as the problem is will still be the weapon being weak. Yea it might make us survive a little longer, but the DPS of an AR will make that extra 6-9 bullets in no time flat.

i maxed out SS and proficiency, and man the class was fun to use. I had a medium suit that I hardly touched back then.

The gun was a beast! The suit was meh, and the fact that people couldn't afford to use Proto heavy suits back then meant that the B Series suit was it! I liked the B Series though, but it wasn't a competitive suit among all the proto Assault players.

Heavies were OP in Chromosome, but are definitely UP now. CCP needs to find a happy medium.

RattatiGs idea of reducing the head shot bonus on Heavies would help a lot. A large part of the problem now is that a HeavyGs head is the size of a microwave, so our extra armour does not mean much when even players who have poor aim can get a head shot on a heavy consistently. Reducing the Head Shot damage bonus on Heavies would help us quite a bit. It makes sense too. We got a lot of mettle around our heads.

The highest HWSS level I managed to get was 4 and from what I remembered, 5 was the sweet spot to dominate in CQC. Once you got into the proficiencies, things got a little insane. The whole point was to toss up a highly inaccurate wall of lead in a single direction to suppress enemies in choke points and mow them down before you overheated, needed to reload, or died- whichever happened first. The suits back then felt like they were made of glass, but the HMG was solid. Now we have the opposite in Uprising, solid suit, but marshmallow gun. At this point, I'd rather have this on a heavy.

The problem is, while other classes get better, the heavies have continually gotten worse over time. Chromosome was an epic time for heavies, and before that heavies were the gods on the battlefield requiring 2-3 guys to team fire. Now? One guy with an Assault rifle could take one down in a matter of seconds.

Heavies are no longer feared like they used to be, in fact a Caldari suit + AR is more feared than anything else.

You forget the tears it got back in Chromosome?

I've never seen so many "leet" AR players cry about something. So CCP, catering to the masses, nerfed the HMG to crap in Uprising 1.0.

It got a slight buff, which made heavies happy at the time because the HMG had a place again... but now it's back to be a laughing stock just like it was in 1.0.

I was not here back when HMG has sharp shooter, but if it was just too accurate why didn't why just need sharp shooter from 5% per level to 4% and if that was still deemed so unreasonable down to 3%.


The massive dispersion on this weapon absolutely kills it.

Yea the HMG did have some decent range, and most heavies would admit it was too much / too accurate. The SS skill increased the range, which increased the range at which bullet spread became an issue. Essentially the HMG had good range without the spread becoming an issue.

good times were had.

Soo.... basically you're saying that a feature that's been in the game since release is why you still aren't releasing new weapons for the heavy? Like it's all of a sudden supposed to be a game changer or something?

Problem is that it doesn't work in PC. It essentially makes you a stationary target, and most of the incoming shots will hit your head which kills you that much faster.

When everybody is using proto they have too much HP to kill effectively with that tactic. But their accuracy is absolutely perfect, and they get the ability to strafe to dodge your shots. You will get dropped instantly.

Fox Usually doesn't troll...

I never saw the problem with chromosome spread or range.

The HMG is supposed to be deadlier than the AR. It is classified as an anti-infantry weapon. And HMG's realistically have more range than an AR.

Even in EVE, projectile weapons outrange hybrids, and larger weapon classes outrange smaller weapon classes.

So this is a weird inconsistency that makes very little sense. We already have enough drawbacks to justify additional range.

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

There was a build either chrome or the one before where it was balanced except it was a bit to accurate at AR range and I mean max AR range I miss that build...

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

Wow Heavey qq is the best qq

Gotta love the lack of care for the heavy coming from CCP. Seriously, just take the class out of the game. Like the dropships and Marauder tanks, just take it out til it's actually useful.

It's pathetic that after a year and a half the heavy class still only has 1 anti infantry weapon specific to its class. DUST is about diversity I was told... LOL! Only diversity in this game is who can spam proto nades the best.

This game is about medium suits + Assault rifles.

Everyone is a slayer. Scout is almost useless, and heavies defending is laughable because they're a proto hipster glorified camper now.

I say it again, heavies will soon become a dinosaur. Extinct and a distant memory. What a joke. From being a feared, and well respected class to being a joke in DUST

Well done.

The problem is, while other classes get better, the heavies have continually gotten worse over time. Chromosome was an epic time for heavies, and before that heavies were the gods on the battlefield requiring 2-3 guys to team fire. Now? One guy with an Assault rifle could take one down in a matter of seconds.

Heavies are no longer feared like they used to be, in fact a Caldari suit + AR is more feared than anything else.

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games.

There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing.

Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games.

There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing.

Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games.

There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing.

Problem is that it doesn't work in PC. It essentially makes you a stationary target, and most of the incoming shots will hit your head which kills you that much faster.

When everybody is using proto they have too much HP to kill effectively with that tactic. But their accuracy is absolutely perfect, and they get the ability to strafe to dodge your shots. You will get dropped instantly.

Why should anyone care about heavies, they're lazy, fat, arrogant assholes. They are worse then the slayer kids, they don't do anything for anyone else, their fat asses eat up all the nanohives, and they hog the armor reps.

**** you heavies, **** you

Why should anyone care about heavies, they're lazy, fat, arrogant assholes. They are worse then the slayer kids, they don't do anything for anyone else, their fat asses eat up all the nanohives, and they hog the armor reps.

**** you heavies, **** you

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

Why should anyone care about heavies, they're lazy, fat, arrogant assholes. They are worse then the slayer kids, they don't do anything for anyone else, their fat asses eat up all the nanohives, and they hog the armor reps.

**** you heavies, **** you

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

Pictures?... is this a troll?

What does pictures have to do with anything? We saw pictures at this year's fanfest too, and then what? Whatever come of that? A bunch of people got excited over sketches and a couple rendered pics. Yet nothing new for the heavy since closed beta.

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

Why would i use such a terrible suit with an AR?

A well fitted Medium suit >>>>> lolheavy suit

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

About new assault rifles? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1412603#post1412603

[FEEDBACK] Balancing Assault Rifle and TAR - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112035&find=unread
Status: We are going to release some changes to ranges, and additionally, 1.7 will give players new rifles to play with, and we will keep monitoring their performance on TQ.

You sound frustrated.

I like the HMG, and have been enjoying playing heavy recently, even if the HMG is weaker than an Assault Rifle right now unless you are within spitting distance.

As long as they give us the other Heavy Suits I will be happy. We will probably see pictures of the new Heavy Weapons at Fan Fest in the Spring.

Oh look, more noobs trying to defend the HMG's terrible performance without actually having any experience in PC whatsoever.

I do believe this is the first time this has ever happened.

pick up a AR with a STD heavy suit. stay in buildings. its the only real use for the heavy besides tower forging. hmg just isnt good....

2 new ARs...

Link for what?

Nothing he said was wrong. Why does he need a link?

Gotta love the lack of care for the heavy coming from CCP. Seriously, just take the class out of the game. Like the dropships and Marauder tanks, just take it out til it's actually useful.

It's pathetic that after a year and a half the heavy class still only has 1 anti infantry weapon specific to its class. DUST is about diversity I was told... LOL! Only diversity in this game is who can spam proto nades the best.

This game is about medium suits + Assault rifles.

Everyone is a slayer. Scout is almost useless, and heavies defending is laughable because they're a proto hipster glorified camper now.

I say it again, heavies will soon become a dinosaur. Extinct and a distant memory. What a joke. From being a feared, and well respected class to being a joke in DUST

Well done.

Link?

Gotta love the lack of care for the heavy coming from CCP. Seriously, just take the class out of the game. Like the dropships and Marauder tanks, just take it out til it's actually useful.

It's pathetic that after a year and a half the heavy class still only has 1 anti infantry weapon specific to its class. DUST is about diversity I was told... LOL! Only diversity in this game is who can spam proto nades the best.

This game is about medium suits + Assault rifles.

Everyone is a slayer. Scout is almost useless, and heavies defending is laughable because they're a proto hipster glorified camper now.

I say it again, heavies will soon become a dinosaur. Extinct and a distant memory. What a joke. From being a feared, and well respected class to being a joke in DUST

Well done.

lol...

Oh you mean the POTENTIAL DPS.

Guess you haven't fired an HMG huh? If you did you would have noticed the huge amount of bullet spread making the numbers game useless. The DPS on your screen is accurate if every bullet hits, and lol at every bullet from the HMG hitting.

The AR / SR has a better representation of their DPS as they're accurate weapons.

The more you know

Gotta love the lack of care for the heavy coming from CCP. Seriously, just take the class out of the game. Like the dropships and Marauder tanks, just take it out til it's actually useful.

It's pathetic that after a year and a half the heavy class still only has 1 anti infantry weapon specific to its class. DUST is about diversity I was told... LOL! Only diversity in this game is who can spam proto nades the best.

This game is about medium suits + Assault rifles.

Everyone is a slayer. Scout is almost useless, and heavies defending is laughable because they're a proto hipster glorified camper now.

I say it again, heavies will soon become a dinosaur. Extinct and a distant memory. What a joke. From being a feared, and well respected class to being a joke in DUST

Well done.

.........So you haven't already seen the damage the heavy machine gun CAN ALREADY do then.

.........So you haven't already seen the damage the heavy machine gun CAN ALREADY do then.

.........So you haven't already seen the damage the heavy machine gun CAN ALREADY do then.

.........So you haven't already seen the damage the heavy machine gun CAN ALREADY do then.

has a point. why wasnt HMG given same aim assist as AR?

why doesnt every weapon have it? ur breaking the game with stuff like this CCP.