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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1893
   |
Posted - 2013.10.23 06:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games.
There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing.
The problem is, while other classes get better, the heavies have continually gotten worse over time. Chromosome was an epic time for heavies, and before that heavies were the gods on the battlefield requiring 2-3 guys to team fire. Now? One guy with an Assault rifle could take one down in a matter of seconds. Heavies are no longer feared like they used to be, in fact a Caldari suit + AR is more feared than anything else.
expect a lot of rebalance when at least one or maybe even all of the heavy are released. No point in wasting time on balance when all the core is missing. I wouldn't be surprised to find out they are trying lots of ideas out |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1897
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 21:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:SO MUCH TEXT
listen here's my suggestion, as a game designer myself... Just add ramp up time before the gun starts firing and you can justify making it stronger. Also you can have the brust HMG play a more important and powerful role as it's attack is instant and more powerful than a standrd HMG making it great at CQC while the HMG has to be careful to go around courners becuase he can't attack right away.
Finally a super long spin -up time, long range variant that does supession damage. Meaning it can't kill at long range unless you just sit there, but if you are out in the open or run you will get hit. The trade off being you have to wait 3-5 seconds before the gun starts to fire. But overheating should be slow on that gun.
My point is add spin up time and everything gets more interesting. Look at the 100 of HMGs TF2 has. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1898
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 21:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:lithkul devant wrote:
Alright, a 10-15% eHP buff would be effective, the main reason behind the Hit point buff I suggested is so that heavies can survive 1 Forge gun blast, 2nd forge gun blast is death. While listing in my reasons I also suggested a massive reduction in movement speed, making it so that the heavy if out in the open or not using any cover at all is going to have problems, very slow, very lumbering. Also, your information about the HMG is incorrect about the range values, even if it was buffed up 10m the HMG would not have the same firing range or capacity as a AR, an AR can effectively kill people from over 100 yards away, reference the Duoville Assault Rifle.
The whole point in the build of the heavy I am suggesting is that it does in fact take 2-3 or perhaphs 4 people to kill the heavy, however, the heavy can't move fast, it can't chase and if it is in a bad position it is dead. The whole purpose of such a unit would be crowd control and objective guarding or a heavy push to an objective. Without support these units will die to scouts as they currently do, especially if the scouts are using RE's or shotguns. Also, a heavy machine gun is something in real life that is capable of killing tanks, I am not suggesting that this be a cheap suit, I would actually be insisting on a price increase.
Other counters to the heavy build is, gernades (can't move out of the way), mass drivers (can't move out of the way, can arch shots), sniper rifles (easy head shots), tanks, plasma cannon, Asault Rifle at a distance. The reason the assault rifle would still be better at a distance is because of the included dispersion factor that is left in the HMG, a heavy is basically like a minature tank that can walk, it is even made to look that way.
25%-30% move decrease as the standard, this is a great equalizer, especially when if you are to add additional armor, it's going to get to be hugely slow even if you are spriting someone could walk away from you and be faster then you.
Slowing down the heavy anymore will nullify the HP buff. Why bother increasing the HP by only 10-15% when you move slower? So instead of 1 nade killing you, it'll take 2 nades? Heavies are the ones that suffer most from general spam in this game. Anything that's being spammed, heavies can't dodge. So buffing HP by so little and slowing them down more = the same thing we have now. 2 steps fwd, 2 steps bck. if you're suggesting heavies need 2-4 to kill, then the HP has to increase by 50-100% AT LEAST. At that kind of HP buff then I can see slower movement speed needed for balance.
Why not just give heavies a passive damage resistance to explosives? say 50-60% still wouldn't stop a remote mine but it'll take nades |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1900
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.
I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.
I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.
But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.
So I struggled on.
And then I crouched.
And the angels sang.
It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)
Problem is that it doesn't work in PC. It essentially makes you a stationary target, and most of the incoming shots will hit your head which kills you that much faster. When everybody is using proto they have too much HP to kill effectively with that tactic. But their accuracy is absolutely perfect, and they get the ability to strafe to dodge your shots. You will get dropped instantly. Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games. There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing.
you know a nice small change would be heavies being immune to head shots. That alone might be enough. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1900
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
lithkul devant wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:lithkul devant wrote:
Alright, a 10-15% eHP buff would be effective, the main reason behind the Hit point buff I suggested is so that heavies can survive 1 Forge gun blast, 2nd forge gun blast is death. While listing in my reasons I also suggested a massive reduction in movement speed, making it so that the heavy if out in the open or not using any cover at all is going to have problems, very slow, very lumbering. Also, your information about the HMG is incorrect about the range values, even if it was buffed up 10m the HMG would not have the same firing range or capacity as a AR, an AR can effectively kill people from over 100 yards away, reference the Duoville Assault Rifle.
The whole point in the build of the heavy I am suggesting is that it does in fact take 2-3 or perhaphs 4 people to kill the heavy, however, the heavy can't move fast, it can't chase and if it is in a bad position it is dead. The whole purpose of such a unit would be crowd control and objective guarding or a heavy push to an objective. Without support these units will die to scouts as they currently do, especially if the scouts are using RE's or shotguns. Also, a heavy machine gun is something in real life that is capable of killing tanks, I am not suggesting that this be a cheap suit, I would actually be insisting on a price increase.
Other counters to the heavy build is, gernades (can't move out of the way), mass drivers (can't move out of the way, can arch shots), sniper rifles (easy head shots), tanks, plasma cannon, Asault Rifle at a distance. The reason the assault rifle would still be better at a distance is because of the included dispersion factor that is left in the HMG, a heavy is basically like a minature tank that can walk, it is even made to look that way.
25%-30% move decrease as the standard, this is a great equalizer, especially when if you are to add additional armor, it's going to get to be hugely slow even if you are spriting someone could walk away from you and be faster then you.
Slowing down the heavy anymore will nullify the HP buff. Why bother increasing the HP by only 10-15% when you move slower? So instead of 1 nade killing you, it'll take 2 nades? Heavies are the ones that suffer most from general spam in this game. Anything that's being spammed, heavies can't dodge. So buffing HP by so little and slowing them down more = the same thing we have now. 2 steps fwd, 2 steps bck. if you're suggesting heavies need 2-4 to kill, then the HP has to increase by 50-100% AT LEAST. At that kind of HP buff then I can see slower movement speed needed for balance. Why not just give heavies a passive damage resistance to explosives? say 50-60% still wouldn't stop a remote mine but it'll take nades 2 posts were not included on this topic, scroll up and read, what I had originally suggested was 25% more armor and shields, along with damage resistance and to balance this a speed decrease. This was also paired up with a power upgrade and range upgrade to the HMG. The topic that is being refernced to is a followup, where a modest 10-15% Ehp buff was suggested and various reasons for disagreement with what I had said.
wouldn't adding 3 more slots to the suits give them enough room to increase their hp with plates? |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1901
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 01:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Slag Emberforge wrote:Good lord walls of text.
Here's my two cents on the survivability improvement.
- I don't think even heavies should survive more than one direct hit, but even if I did a massive speed nerf would make lining up the shot painfully easy and that eHP would not account for much of anything, if anything it would prevent getting into cover and ensure more enemy shots land on you, in the long run.. I don't see much gain.
- Base improvement on eHP this needs to be addressed, not for forge guns just for being able to actually take a hit
- I do think heavies need just a bit more, frankly I'm a bit confused why there is no passive armor regeneration, with such an expansive suit it would only make sense that they would have some repair built in as they are unable to carry hives to rep
true why does the logi line get the +5 armor a second and not the heavy line? |
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