.........So you haven't already seen the damage the heavy machine gun CAN ALREADY do then.

Link?

pick up a AR with a STD heavy suit. stay in buildings. its the only real use for the heavy besides tower forging. hmg just isnt good....

You sound frustrated.

I like the HMG, and have been enjoying playing heavy recently, even if the HMG is weaker than an Assault Rifle right now unless you are within spitting distance.

As long as they give us the other Heavy Suits I will be happy. We will probably see pictures of the new Heavy Weapons at Fan Fest in the Spring.

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.


So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.


It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

Why should anyone care about heavies, they're lazy, fat, arrogant assholes. They are worse then the slayer kids, they don't do anything for anyone else, their fat asses eat up all the nanohives, and they hog the armor reps.

**** you heavies, **** you

Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games.

There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing.

Wow Heavey qq is the best qq

There was a build either chrome or the one before where it was balanced except it was a bit to accurate at AR range and I mean max AR range I miss that build...

I never saw the problem with chromosome spread or range.

The HMG is supposed to be deadlier than the AR. It is classified as an anti-infantry weapon. And HMG's realistically have more range than an AR.

Even in EVE, projectile weapons outrange hybrids, and larger weapon classes outrange smaller weapon classes.

So this is a weird inconsistency that makes very little sense. We already have enough drawbacks to justify additional range.

I was not here back when HMG has sharp shooter, but if it was just too accurate why didn't why just need sharp shooter from 5% per level to 4% and if that was still deemed so unreasonable down to 3%.


The massive dispersion on this weapon absolutely kills it.

The highest HWSS level I managed to get was 4 and from what I remembered, 5 was the sweet spot to dominate in CQC. Once you got into the proficiencies, things got a little insane. The whole point was to toss up a highly inaccurate wall of lead in a single direction to suppress enemies in choke points and mow them down before you overheated, needed to reload, or died- whichever happened first. The suits back then felt like they were made of glass, but the HMG was solid. Now we have the opposite in Uprising, solid suit, but marshmallow gun. At this point, I'd rather have this on a heavy.

Heavies were OP in Chromosome, but are definitely UP now. CCP needs to find a happy medium.

RattatiGÇÖs idea of reducing the head shot bonus on Heavies would help a lot. A large part of the problem now is that a HeavyGÇÖs head is the size of a microwave, so our extra armour does not mean much when even players who have poor aim can get a head shot on a heavy consistently. Reducing the Head Shot damage bonus on Heavies would help us quite a bit. It makes sense too. We got a lot of mettle around our heads.

I did just fine in chrome is was about tactics then now it takes none

I strongly disagree that Heavies were OP back in Chromosome. The only reason anyone thinks that is because it was the beginning of a new Skill Wipe.

Heavies are OP in low leveled matches. When everyone's skillpoints are low and none of the higher tier stuff was out yet, a Heavy that rushed a Type-II suit plus an MH-82 was a god to any militia/standard fit. The total HP without modules and the raw power of the MH-82 made it incredibly difficult to deal with during the first weeks of Chrom. Even in Chromosome though, Heavies saw a severe drop off in power and capabilities as soon as the higher tier suits started to get unlocked. While the Tybe-B assaults were strong and the Prototype suits were godly, Heavies had to deal with a single slot increase with each tier and a 200K+ prototype suit.

People abused the fact that heavies were immensely strong at the beginning of chromosome, but at the end of it, they were no better than scouts. Heavies barely even had a place in the 8v8 corp matches back then. At least now they are needed for Forge Gun control and the removed range cap for the HMG makes distance battles better than your bullets disappearing after 60 meters.

I fully agree that Heavies need a buff. They are gimped in too many ways for that increased health and the ability to use heavy weapons... But please, take off the rose colored glasses. Chromosome wasn't much better, if at all.

I guess you never learned that HMGs aren't supposed to operate at long ranges where spread would be a concern.

give the HMG a damage buff inside 15m too. thats their killbox

if ur that close to a heavy ur doing it wrong.

Hmmm, that seems familiar (read the quote)

Sad face, I have to continue to be an assault player while my heavy collects dust.

:[

some very good discussions here. linked it to the new EP and some other devs on twitter. next up is retuning the scout which is almost just as bad off. dont be a person who supports the class you use but could care less about anything else.

if ur a fan of this game at all and its balance u should be posting in the scout thread as well. no true dust fans wants to dominate with anything besides his skill. we want things balanced and operating as intended so that we can have a good experience even when the other guy wins.

I must be playing a different game

We use At least one DS sometimes 2 if were multi squading in FW for fast insertion and extraction of infantry and never have a problem with birds getting shot down they appear to work fine. Maybe it's more to do with how you fly that's the issue.

We deploy at least 1 tank in one of the squads and very rarely lose it to AV as we allocate infantry support as needed again via drop from DS. Also we have three gunners the driver and 2 support with skills trained to level 5 in turret skills.

We deploy 2 heavies within our squads who destroy all before them with assault AR MD support.

So I'm totally confused why people think there broken maybe your just not using them as intended

^^^^ LOLL Are u kidding?
My heavy suit has over 1600 hp .. add a duvolle assault or tac ... no medium in the world has a shot ~
Us heavies want a laser hmg , a plasma hmg ... or something close to that
We need more variety asap

Yes, I have. And there are people who troll with those things. It's called a HEAVY machine gun. Of course, it's not gonna be easy to use. Big guns never really are, no matter how unrealistic the developers make them.

Alright, a 10-15% eHP buff would be effective, the main reason behind the Hit point buff I suggested is so that heavies can survive 1 Forge gun blast, 2nd forge gun blast is death. While listing in my reasons I also suggested a massive reduction in movement speed, making it so that the heavy if out in the open or not using any cover at all is going to have problems, very slow, very lumbering. Also, your information about the HMG is incorrect about the range values, even if it was buffed up 10m the HMG would not have the same firing range or capacity as a AR, an AR can effectively kill people from over 100 yards away, reference the Duoville Assault Rifle.

The whole point in the build of the heavy I am suggesting is that it does in fact take 2-3 or perhaphs 4 people to kill the heavy, however, the heavy can't move fast, it can't chase and if it is in a bad position it is dead. The whole purpose of such a unit would be crowd control and objective guarding or a heavy push to an objective. Without support these units will die to scouts as they currently do, especially if the scouts are using RE's or shotguns. Also, a heavy machine gun is something in real life that is capable of killing tanks, I am not suggesting that this be a cheap suit, I would actually be insisting on a price increase.

Other counters to the heavy build is, gernades (can't move out of the way), mass drivers (can't move out of the way, can arch shots), sniper rifles (easy head shots), tanks, plasma cannon, Asault Rifle at a distance. The reason the assault rifle would still be better at a distance is because of the included dispersion factor that is left in the HMG, a heavy is basically like a minature tank that can walk, it is even made to look that way.

25%-30% move decrease as the standard, this is a great equalizer, especially when if you are to add additional armor, it's going to get to be hugely slow even if you are spriting someone could walk away from you and be faster then you.

another 10 page AR qq thread?

you make it sound like i care about the AR which i dont. when i started dust i was a real good sniper and a mediocre shotguner, being a heavy was next but i decided to go AR. i am probably the worst person you can tell that i care about something. If its such an easy weapon will you ever get 40 kills in a pc with it? pretty sure not

What? Being a Heavy is awesome.

We have 2 weapons in the game.

We have a Heavy Grenade slot with no Heavy Grenades in the game.

We have a suit with a bonus for a gun that doesn't exist, and a bonus that is simply laughable.

For like an entire year, one of the two guns had hit detection issues.

After they fixed the hit detection issue for the one gun, they nerfed the other gun into the ground.

We are the slowest suit, with the largest hit box, with an average EHP attainable by Logi suits, and we get to sacrifice our equipment slots to use a whole bunch of **** that doesn't even exist yet.

Kudos to you CCP, keep adding more fuckin rifles to the game.

I would think leaving the HMG as is and adding a suppression effect would be good IF it can hit multiple targets within its cone. This would be a different philosophy from the "mobile wall" concept I proposed earlier in the thread, and makes the heavy more important for crowd control. Only marginally better for point defense, though: using basic flanking, a pair could still eliminate a heavy pretty quickly.

I think this behavior might be better for a scrambler heavy weapon, though. Crowd control seems like something the Amarr would be into (you wouldn't want to kill valuable slaves if you could incapacitate them). It would be a slow way to kill 1v1, but team vs. team would make a huge difference.

Which goes back to the OP: When do we get more heavy weapons? And do they have interesting characteristics consistent with a philosophy, or are they just more ways to apply simple damage?

CCP = Trolling Level 5 with Prof 5. I've been saying it for a while. They key is to not care about new gear until it is released then only put one level into it and only use it on cheap suits. Determine for yourself that it is either OP or UP and if you like using it. If it is UP then use it for fun and if it is OP then get ready to be nerfed. If you like it keep using it.

I do understand why medium suits and rifles are the first things out but some love for the fat girls would be fun also. I don't push heavy suits but we need players not rifles. Putting suits and non light weapons into the game should be on the front burner along with vehicles. CCP we need players to come back to the game and stay and my suggestion is for you to put vehicles and heavy suits/weapons out soon. Not TM, like now.

It is good to see you fired up some more Lance. I thought we lost you for a while.

Not to slight accountants in any way, but I really am not, I'm an engineer

I work closely with the Dust team, so even not actively developing, can (sometimes) influence what is developed.

To address some of the questions.

I don't think I said the heavy was PC competitive, if you read my comment, I said it could be used situationally, and not everyone knows about the crouching, I think it's been kept a little secret in the community. I don't think I ever advocated crouching constantly out in the open all the time.

We are increasing the effective ehp by 20% in 1.6 which will help.

On the forums, I am sharing my thoughts as a player, and also to get feedback and discussions, about things that interest me as a player or playstyles that I am not personally familiar with

We absolutely try to source information from the CPM, forums, internal metrics and logs, and of course, our own experience. All these play a part in the decision making process.

So let's keep the feedback positive and detailed, many posts in this thread are superb in that aspect, and have certainly helped me understand the heavy's concerns better.