DUST Search - New Assault Rifles coming, and NO Heavy Weapon... GG!

CCP Rattati wrote:

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm.

I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more.

I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods.

But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible.

So I struggled on.

And then I crouched.

And the angels sang.

It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's)

Problem is that it doesn't work in PC. It essentially makes you a stationary target, and most of the incoming shots will hit your head which kills you that much faster.

When everybody is using proto they have too much HP to kill effectively with that tactic. But their accuracy is absolutely perfect, and they get the ability to strafe to dodge your shots. You will get dropped instantly.

Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games.

There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1972	Posted - 2013.10.22 16:20:00 - [1] - Quote Oh look, more noobs trying to defend the HMG's terrible performance without actually having any experience in PC whatsoever. I do believe this is the first time this has ever happened.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1972	Posted - 2013.10.22 16:23:00 - [2] - Quote Link for what? Nothing he said was wrong. Why does he need a link?
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1972	Posted - 2013.10.22 16:25:00 - [3] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Link for what? Nothing he said was wrong. Why does he need a link? 2 new ARs... He is talking about the combat rifle and rail rifle. Which are not technically "AR's", but the same class of weapon and fit the point entirely. Thought that was obvious.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1975	Posted - 2013.10.22 16:31:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm. I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more. I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods. But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible. So I struggled on. And then I crouched. And the angels sang. It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's) Problem is that it doesn't work in PC. It essentially makes you a stationary target, and most of the incoming shots will hit your head which kills you that much faster. When everybody is using proto they have too much HP to kill effectively with that tactic. But their accuracy is absolutely perfect, and they get the ability to strafe to dodge your shots. You will get dropped instantly.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1975	Posted - 2013.10.22 16:36:00 - [5] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Why should anyone care about heavies, they're lazy, fat, arrogant assholes. They are worse then the slayer kids, they don't do anything for anyone else, their fat asses eat up all the nanohives, and they hog the armor reps. ** you heavies, ** you Get in my belly
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1975	Posted - 2013.10.22 16:44:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been practicing my heavy in anticipation of my Gallente heavy soontm. I love the idea of an armored beast with an HMG so I began skilling slowly into it but it was going terribly for weeks. Going head to head with mediums at optimum (that I thought) ranges for me, had me losing half of the time, or more. I did not like it and did not understand how to make it work, blaming my lack of specilaization or general UP of the heavy, and cursing the gods. But then I had an eye opening moment, seing the Dark cloud come into a random pub and go 24/0 in a heavy/hmg, in the midst of the firefight the whole time, something I had just thought not possible. So I struggled on. And then I crouched. And the angels sang. It's a weird crutch (I am used to it from my old AQ2 days), and I don't think the heavy is by no means perfect as it is, but tactical crouching with the hmg literally melts faces like no other weapon I have used (except for OHK's) Problem is that it doesn't work in PC. It essentially makes you a stationary target, and most of the incoming shots will hit your head which kills you that much faster. When everybody is using proto they have too much HP to kill effectively with that tactic. But their accuracy is absolutely perfect, and they get the ability to strafe to dodge your shots. You will get dropped instantly. Absolutely, you have to almost double tab the crouch button but it makes at least playing the heavy viable in many games. There are many ways to fix some of the issues you mention, heavy being more resistant to small arms fire, or the heavy armor shields better from headshots, etc. I'll leave that to the designers but I assure you, we are always listening (and measuring) to what works in PC and what doesn't, so keep the feedback flowing. A strong resistance skill would go a long way, but even if that gets put in it won't fix the HMG issue. It will just make the heavy suit the favorite suit for using a rifle. There are a lot of ways to fix the HMG. Some people want more damage, some people want greatly decreased dispersion. Some people want a "stagger" effect when the HMG hits their target which slows them down and cripples their targets ability to aim. I could actually get on board with that one for the simple fact it would be a hilariously trolling tool and completely unique.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1981	Posted - 2013.10.22 17:32:00 - [7] - Quote I never saw the problem with chromosome spread or range. The HMG is supposed to be deadlier than the AR. It is classified as an anti-infantry weapon. And HMG's realistically have more range than an AR. Even in EVE, projectile autocannons outrange blasters (which is what an AR is), and larger weapon classes outrange smaller weapon classes. So this is a weird inconsistency that makes very little sense. We already have enough drawbacks to justify additional range.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1981	Posted - 2013.10.22 17:48:00 - [8] - Quote I've been wondering that myself, actually.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1986	Posted - 2013.10.22 18:10:00 - [9] - Quote Good assaults never seemed to have any problem killing me in chromosome if they knew what they were doing. As long as they could win I don't see what cause they had to complain. We were using what is SUPPOSED to be a superior weapon for anti-infantry.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1986	Posted - 2013.10.22 18:14:00 - [10] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Heavies were OP in Chromosome, but are definitely UP now. CCP needs to find a happy medium. RattatiGÇÖs idea of reducing the head shot bonus on Heavies would help a lot. A large part of the problem now is that a HeavyGÇÖs head is the size of a microwave, so our extra armour does not mean much when even players who have poor aim can get a head shot on a heavy consistently. Reducing the Head Shot damage bonus on Heavies would help us quite a bit. It makes sense too. We got a lot of mettle around our heads. Heavies were feared back in Chromosome... OP? Maybe the range was. Headshot reduction won't do much though, as the problem is will still be the weapon being weak. Yea it might make us survive a little longer, but the DPS of an AR will make that extra 6-9 bullets in no time flat. I did just fine in chrome is was about tactics then now it takes none ^^ Honesty.

Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2001	Posted - 2013.10.23 13:53:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Actually Rattati, what do you do at CCP? Hey Fox/Himiko, I am the global head of FP&A at CCP, currently based in Iceland, and relocating with my family to Shanghai in January to help our efforts on Dust 514, joining CCP Rouge and the team there. Given that I am also a fanatic player, you might call me a true believer in Dust 514 and its potential. Oh, good. I have always felt that people who remove themselves from the "design" position are actually more likely to have an accurate view of where the game needs to go. No offense to any of your friends, but it is a common thing for a designer to somewhat fall in love with their own vision at the expense of what needs to happen. I think this may have happened with the heavy more than a few times. So what are the odds of you convincing Wolfman to give our HMG bullets a stagger effect/minor camera shake? Y'know, for "suppression". Thats what the big guns are for, right? It would let us truly mess up people who decided to attack us head on. The way I see it, in PC there are two main complaints with us Heavies. The first is, people dislike how dominant the forge is in PC. Meaning the splash radius makes them insanely effective when you park a couple forge gunners on a tower, they can basically dominate the other team. Depending on who you ask, this "ruins" PC matches because whoever has the tower, has the match. On the other hand, if you remove the forges ability to wreck infantry face you have to give the HMG the ability to wreck face. Otherwise both heavy weapons don't have any kind of dominant role. Forge can still OHK with skillshots, but wouldn't be a splash god, and HMG has CQC range but would stagger, camera shake, and outright **** anyone who fell under its fire. It could also be used to suppress people from range and mess with their accuracy, although killing them would still be difficult due to falloff. Anyhow, that's pretty much what I think needs to happen. I just think that sometimes it gets ignored because it's not considered a "priority", but it absolutely should be a priority. Changing the HMG allows you to change the forge, which would completely change the flow of PC, which effects more players than just the Heavy. A lot of people would appreciate that, and sooner rather than later.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2006	Posted - 2013.10.23 17:41:00 - [12] - Quote Eh, I'm all for giving the heavy more HP while slowing it down to terminator speeds. I still say that they need a stagger and shake effect on their gun more than they need additional DPS though. A heavy suit should have a psychological impact on the enemy when they are confronted 1v1. A couple of patches ago, the mass driver had this psychological impact because after the first shot the camera rocked all over the damn place and you couldn't re-acquire your target. This was somewhat fixed when aim assist got put in. The mass driver never really needed that benefit though. It was already epic area denial and did ridiculous amounts of damage to armor. What does need that benefit is the HMG. When you introduce camera shake and stagger you give the heavy the psychological advantage. NOBODY wants to engage a gigantic terminator at a range where he can effectively disable your ability to aim, strafe, or properly retreat. More importantly, it also sends a clear message to nooblets. When all of their motor functions get scrambled under HMG fire they will know immediately that this is a situation they have to avoid. It is one of those instinctual things that will tell them to play smarter and accept that this is a force to be reckoned with. When you don't do this and instead opt for just a boatload of damage, nooblets won't always get the message and they will keep trying to butt heads with the heavy. This results in lower skilled players simply rage quitting because they can't wrap their head around the situation. Damage is something that is too universal, and isn't recognize as a suit-specific danger. Lots of noobs don't even recognize where its coming from. Stagger would make it very obvious what is killing them and make them play smarter.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2009	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:10:00 - [13] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Tolen Rosas wrote: give the HMG a damage buff inside 15m too. thats their killbox if ur that close to a heavy ur doing it wrong. They donGÇÖt need a damage buff, they need a damage application buff. Reduce the spread and more bullets will hit = damage buff without changing damage on paper. Add the same Sharp Shooter Skill that SMG has. It reduces spread, which extends itGÇÖs optimal range in a manner of speaking, but does not actually increase the theoretical range of the weapon. Essentially this would buff the HMGGÇÖs applied damage at ranges beyond 5m without any damage increase being mentioned in the patch notes, so the AR users would not get riled up. .... or just put in the stagger and shake effect.
Himiko Kuronaga MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2011	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:46:00 - [14] - Quote Zero Roamero wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Zero Roamero wrote: .........So you haven't already seen the damage the heavy machine gun CAN ALREADY do then. lol... Oh you mean the POTENTIAL DPS. Guess you haven't fired an HMG huh? If you did you would have noticed the huge amount of bullet spread making the numbers game useless. The DPS on your screen is accurate if every bullet hits, and lol at every bullet from the HMG hitting. The AR / SR has a better representation of their DPS as they're accurate weapons. The more you know Yes, I have. And there are people who troll with those things. It's called a HEAVY machine gun. Of course, it's not gonna be easy to use. Big guns never really are, no matter how unrealistic the developers make them. Heavy does not mean difficult to use. It means heavier than light. As in, deals heavier fire power. Not heavy as in "holy **** i can't lift this thing".