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low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 660	Posted - 2013.10.11 02:33:00 - [61] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: Respecs would favor newberries more than it would vets (and by vet, I mean beta). As some have mentioned, at a certain point in SP you no longer have anything very interesting to spec into. Your suit and weapons have lost their shine. You can either spec into suits you are less interested in or go for some of the more random skills that are marginally beneficial to how you play. I have 21 mil SP and close to 5mil of that is unallocated because I would rather save it for the hope that something interesting comes down the road rather than spend it on suits I would hardly ever use. the math does not support this. neither does the past.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES EoN. 254	Posted - 2013.10.11 02:49:00 - [62] - Quote They are in fear of nothing. back in the first respec a lot of noobs poured all their skills into proto suit and weapons, but not mods or core skills. I have never seen proto suits drop so fast.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis 633	Posted - 2013.10.11 02:55:00 - [63] - Quote low genius wrote: Canari Elphus wrote: Respecs would favor newberries more than it would vets (and by vet, I mean beta). As some have mentioned, at a certain point in SP you no longer have anything very interesting to spec into. Your suit and weapons have lost their shine. You can either spec into suits you are less interested in or go for some of the more random skills that are marginally beneficial to how you play. I have 21 mil SP and close to 5mil of that is unallocated because I would rather save it for the hope that something interesting comes down the road rather than spend it on suits I would hardly ever use. the math does not support this. neither does the past. What math are you talking about? Who makes the most mistakes with their choices, someone just starting out or a veteran who has been playing this game since beta? Sure, some of the Callogis will choose new suits and most will shy away from skilling into flaylocks but I can see no other big shift in the playerbase. The people that will be rewarded the most would be vehicle users who routinely get shafted . Personally, I would probably free up 500k worth of SP from the respec otherwise it would all go in the same place. Maybe another million or so if I decided not to re-skill into ARs. I will tell you one benefit of having 1 or 2 scheduled respecs a year that would help this game. It allows players to take chances rather than just picking the vanilla suits and weapons. More people would be willing to try interesting fits/playstyles if they knew that they knew that they could get out of it at some point down the road should it turn out to be a flop. I chose the Amarr Assault when 1.0 first launched and did not like it at all since it did not fit my playstyle. If it wasnt for the second respec I would have probably quit the game within a month or so.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6863	Posted - 2013.10.11 03:04:00 - [64] - Quote After a year and a half of this game I have come to the conclusion that infantry play is horrendously boring and I just want to pour all my points back into vehicles and say **** all you scrubs. Instead I have to sit on all these fits that I don't bother using cuz lolBPOs and lmaoscrubs so there's really no point to at least 8 million of my SP right now. Just sits there. I can't even waddle around the warbarge to show off my fat red eyes anymore.
XxWarlordxX97 Ancient Exiles 4690	Posted - 2013.10.11 03:14:00 - [65] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Yesterday I was using the squad finder and got into a match with some pretty laid back guys. We were doing good rolling over waves of Gallente when we started talking about re-specs. I said I wanted one, he didn't because "all the noobs who didn't know how to play the game would get protosuits." So... Some are scared that the common raspberry might be able to shoot back. All I want is to spec out of nades and snipers. They are scared of a proto suit,The MAG respecs system was awesome
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 1686	Posted - 2013.10.11 03:17:00 - [66] - Quote XxWarlordxX97 wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Yesterday I was using the squad finder and got into a match with some pretty laid back guys. We were doing good rolling over waves of Gallente when we started talking about re-specs. I said I wanted one, he didn't because "all the noobs who didn't know how to play the game would get protosuits." So... Some are scared that the common raspberry might be able to shoot back. All I want is to spec out of nades and snipers. They are scared of a proto suit,The MAG respecs system was awesome
XxWarlordxX97 Ancient Exiles 4690	Posted - 2013.10.11 03:22:00 - [67] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: XxWarlordxX97 wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Yesterday I was using the squad finder and got into a match with some pretty laid back guys. We were doing good rolling over waves of Gallente when we started talking about re-specs. I said I wanted one, he didn't because "all the noobs who didn't know how to play the game would get protosuits." So... Some are scared that the common raspberry might be able to shoot back. All I want is to spec out of nades and snipers. They are scared of a proto suit,The MAG respecs system was awesome People just throw core nades and OP on me what is scarier then that
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1115	Posted - 2013.10.11 03:28:00 - [68] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: In my OPINION,the depth would stay AND we would have replay value,something dust needs urgently. If you actually thought about it, respecs reduce the replay value extremely. Ok, played with all the Light weapons... Ok, played with all the Heavy weapons... Ok, played with all the Medium Suits... Ok, played with all the Heavy Suits... Ok, Played with all the Light Suits... Ok, played with all the Sidearms... Ok, played with all the Equipment... Now what? Then, all the folks with money to blow on a game come on the forums and complain about the lack of content and so on. It condenses a game, and reduces its replay value because of it. It be like Letting you go to any part of a game with the tools of a the endgame, and go find every secret. So, you found all the secrets? Well, what now? Ok, you played all the classes, what now? Go and play with the class you know exactly on what it does again? /Trainofthoughtimploded
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6865	Posted - 2013.10.11 03:49:00 - [69] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: If you actually thought about it, respecs reduce the replay value extremely. Ok, played with all the Light weapons... Ok, played with all the Heavy weapons... Ok, played with all the Medium Suits... Ok, played with all the Heavy Suits... Ok, Played with all the Light Suits... Ok, played with all the Sidearms... Ok, played with all the Equipment... Now what? Then, all the folks with money to blow on a game come on the forums and complain about the lack of content and so on. It condenses a game, and reduces its replay value because of it. It be like Letting you go to any part of a game with the tools of a the endgame, and go find every secret. So, you found all the secrets? Well, what now? Ok, you played all the classes, what now? Go and play with the class you know exactly on what it does again? I've already done that, without respecs. The game is remarkably small, and there is very little difference between many builds, to the point where it's literally just a few % differences. The game is small, period, respecs do not change that. It's about playing what you like, and not being afraid that whatever you choose might be ripped apart in one of CCPs random balance passes, only to be in a state of limbo for X amount of months while CCP tries to figure out how to fix their fix.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1115	Posted - 2013.10.11 03:55:00 - [70] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: If you actually thought about it, respecs reduce the replay value extremely. Ok, played with all the Light weapons... Ok, played with all the Heavy weapons... Ok, played with all the Medium Suits... Ok, played with all the Heavy Suits... Ok, Played with all the Light Suits... Ok, played with all the Sidearms... Ok, played with all the Equipment... Now what? Then, all the folks with money to blow on a game come on the forums and complain about the lack of content and so on. It condenses a game, and reduces its replay value because of it. It be like Letting you go to any part of a game with the tools of a the endgame, and go find every secret. So, you found all the secrets? Well, what now? Ok, you played all the classes, what now? Go and play with the class you know exactly on what it does again? I've already done that, without respecs. The game is remarkably small, and there is very little difference between many builds, to the point where it's literally just a few % differences. The game is small, period, respecs do not change that. It's about playing what you like, and not being afraid that whatever you choose might be ripped apart in one of CCPs random balance passes, only to be in a state of limbo for X amount of months while CCP tries to figure out how to fix their fix. Yes, and Respecs shorten that Short game even more.

Tectonic Fusion The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 333	Posted - 2013.10.11 03:57:00 - [71] - Quote FOTM is Caldari Assault and Amarr Logistics with Duvolles. That is all.
ugg reset Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 395	Posted - 2013.10.11 04:06:00 - [72] - Quote right because people who make poor choices with a little SP at a time will make informed decisions when they get alot at once. fear!? these are the people I laugh at.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6865	Posted - 2013.10.11 04:10:00 - [73] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Yes, and Respecs shorten that Short game even more. You know what shortens the game? Sitting on a bunch of SP that you don't use anymore. It shortens it by making all that SP irrelevant and thusly making you grind away for the chance to be exactly where you already are. Oh joy, how exciting. (aka, faster burnout, adding to our already dwindling numbers)
XxWarlordxX97 Ancient Exiles 4692	Posted - 2013.10.11 04:17:00 - [74] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: In my OPINION,the depth would stay AND we would have replay value,something dust needs urgently. If you actually thought about it, respecs reduce the replay value extremely. Ok, played with all the Light weapons... Ok, played with all the Heavy weapons... Ok, played with all the Medium Suits... Ok, played with all the Heavy Suits... Ok, Played with all the Light Suits... Ok, played with all the Sidearms... Ok, played with all the Equipment... Now what? Then, all the folks with money to blow on a game come on the forums and complain about the lack of content and so on. It condenses a game, and reduces its replay value because of it. It be like Letting you go to any part of a game with the tools of a the endgame, and go find every secret. So, you found all the secrets? Well, what now? Ok, you played all the classes, what now? Go and play with the class you know exactly on what it does again? /Trainofthoughtimploded Play as one class and get bored thinks of going to BF4
Borne Velvalor BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY 37	Posted - 2013.10.11 04:21:00 - [75] - Quote "Accept the permanent consequences of your choices." GÇô The most common defense against complete and partial respecs. I know, because players speccing into vehicles months ago really knew how the vehicles would turn out in the future. Players speccing their suits around vehicles, only to find that their old strategies don't work so well with the new vehicles, should take the consequences that "resulted" from "their" actions. It's not fair to say that being able to allocate SP again takes away the investment of spending SP or destroys the "spirit" of Dust 514 when the player didn't know WHAT they'd be speccing to at the time they specced into it. This includes: New players speccing into weapons and equipment that do not have Militia versions because it is the only way to try them. CCP changing the fundamental functionality of a skill, thus making it impossible to know WHAT you're speccing into in the future. CCP completely rebuilding fundamental mechanics. and possibly more. I now agree that allowing players to respec at any time would negatively affect the diversity of players and tactics, but no respecs is just a troll move. I'd like a respec for new players at 3 million SP, which is enough for indecisive players to decide what role they want to take, partial respecs when skill effects change and total respecs when whole fields are completely redone.
APOPHIS Xxx the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 20	Posted - 2013.10.11 05:22:00 - [76] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: APOPHIS Xxx wrote: DJINNDicknoseturdwaffle wrote: The people who don't want respecs are the ones that suck at this game I wanted more than 1 equipment slot for pc but no assaults don't need it so that's one reason why I didn't come back for very long wasted sp No, the people who wants a respecs are the ones that sucks at this game and not knowing how to properly use their skill points. There's nothing stopping you from playing and saving up more SP's for the skills you SHOULD have skilled up into. Boo hoo....That's why you didn't come back because you didn't get your way!! What a efn BABY! NO RESPEC! Especially for players like yourself! ''No, the people who wants a respecs are the ones that sucks at this game'' Sorry Apophis, i dont consider myself to suck at this game. ''not knowing how to properly use their skill points.'' Skill trees change,have elusive and misleading descriptions PLUS sometimes the only way to test stuff is to buy it.This DOES not help the ''permanent decision '' aspect at all. The best example is the player base decrease lately. ''There's nothing stopping you from playing and saving up more SP's for the skills'' My 12 hours per day job + Collage studies Do prevent this. The fact is, generalising players looking for respecs is very close minded,. Its only natural for a player to be the most they can be, and im sure players denying repecs are scared of what players like me would be able to do if we had all of our SP in 1 specific fit, this is my opinion. Checkmate you're sadly mistaken. Closed minded? So, what do you consider yourself for asking for a respec? LOL You think you're the only person that has other priorities like college and work? Stop with the lame excuses! Do you buy something, use it, and then say, "i'm not happy with it" and return it for a full refund? Sounds like a little spoiled brat in my opinion! Scared of players like you of what they can do if you had a respec? Yeah, whatever! LOL. Should've. Would've. Could've. You made your bed. Now, lay in it! Man, kids these days surely need a smack upside the head! LOL
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 298	Posted - 2013.10.11 07:58:00 - [77] - Quote I'm against respecs in a theoretical/philosophical sense but in a game like Dust which yoyos so much and has such a small playerbase, who cares. Give it to people to stop them quitting and lock it down in a few years time when things "might" be stable.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1111	Posted - 2013.10.11 08:02:00 - [78] - Quote GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR wrote: Yeah once the tanks and dropships are out u will c alot of people asking for them just wait and see. missing racial variants warrants a respec imo, as well as any changes to skills (not skill bonus nerfs, but entire changes) or giant changes to roles, such as the vehicle redo.
Nestil Seraphim Auxiliaries 71	Posted - 2013.10.11 08:26:00 - [79] - Quote APOPHIS Xxx wrote: DJINNDicknoseturdwaffle wrote: The people who don't want respecs are the ones that suck at this game I wanted more than 1 equipment slot for pc but no assaults don't need it so that's one reason why I didn't come back for very long wasted sp No, the people who wants a respecs are the ones that sucks at this game and not knowing how to properly use their skill points. There's nothing stopping you from playing and saving up more SP's for the skills you SHOULD have skilled up into. Boo hoo....That's why you didn't come back because you didn't get your way!! What a efn BABY! NO RESPEC! Especially for players like yourself! so you say it's my fault that the Nova Knives have a terrible hit detection and have no use at all at the moment ?! ... or that my scout protosuit is too expensive for being so crappy & having so **** stats? you know since the hit detection upgrade even a warm breeze kills me instantly while my shotgun cant 1HKO some **** militia suit 30% of the time cause hit detection still not works on the SG properly! respecs would help the game! look at MAG, that game wouldn't have lasted that long without the option of an respec...
Karl Koekwaus Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 194	Posted - 2013.10.11 08:35:00 - [80] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: You guys are missing the big picture. It's about the three general rules of New Eden that have existed and have been established for ten years already. Adapt or die. Don't use what you can't afford to lose. Accept the permanent consequences of your choices. The third rule is the most important and is something every inhabitant of New Eden has adopted into their culture for the past ten years. I understand that these rules come from Eve Online and some of you feel that what goes on in Eve should stay in Eve and not in DUST. But the fact that DUST is operating in the exact same universe (and the exact same server) with some interaction in between means that whatever rules Eve Online has will more than likely apply to DUST. .snip. Remember that New Eden is a very different mmo compared to other games in terms of culture, organization, and player influence. It won't be long until DUST starts adopting a similar culture once both economies begin to integrate. +1 This is also the reason you can't rename your character.

demonkiller 12 G.U.T.Z 248	Posted - 2013.10.11 08:43:00 - [81] - Quote the only people who should get PARTIAL respecs are players with AV/Vehicle skills when the "major" changes come. and any other time they do a complete rehaul of something in the game. seriously i speced into a tank - its called a gunloggi and CCP plan to turn it into a pumpkin now yes you can argue that hey you skilled into it so what if they nerf it - if all they did was nerf it then i wouldnt care but when they take something you already skilled into and already have in your garage and say "hey, we're gonna take your tank and turn it into something completely different, we'll tell you when we're done :D" - thats not acceptable
Rei Shepard Spectre II 673	Posted - 2013.10.11 08:44:00 - [82] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Yesterday I was using the squad finder and got into a match with some pretty laid back guys. We were doing good rolling over waves of Gallente when we started talking about re-specs. I said I wanted one, he didn't because "all the noobs who didn't know how to play the game would get protosuits." So... Some are scared that the common raspberry might be able to shoot back. All I want is to spec out of nades and snipers. o7 Hows the Imperial SCR treating you? I dont mind respecs much, i would just spec exactly the same though, with a point optimized here and there.
Void Echo Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 1724	Posted - 2013.10.11 09:41:00 - [83] - Quote well... if I don't get a respect when the vehicle changes come, youl never see my ass logged into dust again.. a lot of other people have already left because they don't have enough sp to enjoy the game or skill into what they want when they have a few million SP. respecs would save the game if only it happened once a major change would be implemented, no other time, other than that, youl have to pay aurum for one. to all you who say respecs would hurt the game, this game is nearly dead because its stale and nothing new is here, people already have their **** maxed out to the point where its ridiculous not to have a respect. "it ruins the meaning of the game" .... ok so you would rather keep this game nearly dead than have a lot of people come back because your a diehard eve pilot?
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis 637	Posted - 2013.10.11 11:58:00 - [84] - Quote My counterarguments to the anti-respec side. - Persistence/Consequences - This is great from a RPG element but DUST currently does not have that aside from what the players create themselves. Its still in its infancy as a lobby shooter and the current size of the player base shows that the model they created is not working. Sure, no respecs down the road when this game is fleshed out and there is a true connection to EVE but that isnt now. If the current state of the game is all it will ever be then you would probably see a good number of people abandon it. - FOTM migration - The counter to this is offering respecs only at set longer intervals such as twice a year. Six months is an extreme amount of time in a FPS. Many vets know how heavy handed CCP can be with the nerf hammer and will be hesitant to go completely into the FOTM after having to deal with the Callogi fiasco. Sure, some may but there is no true OP weapon out there right now that is anywhere near what used to be and they would know they would be stuck with it for a couple months. - Players would get bored - Anybody who has played this game for a couple months now is already bored. Aside from a few new maps and weapons this game has not evolved in any way towards its future 'vision'. Players who find that their favorite suit/weapon/vehicle has been nerfed into oblivion are now faced with either the tedious grind to something new or deciding to give up the game. Many have chosen to move to other games. Benefits of Respecs - It allows players to take risks - Knowing that a respec is on the horizon, they will be more likely to try new skills or weapons/equipment/vehicles without fear of wasting weeks of SP. How many people would try the new weapons or vehicles right now the gate now? Ask the commandos or the flaylock users. Ask the derpship pilots who have been trolled consistently for months. Ask the tankers who can barely keep a positive ISK balance. The reason we have so many assaults with ARs in this game is because people are afraid to take risks due to the 'persistent consequences' . - It kills the complaining - Telling players that they get a mid-year and end of year respec kills the majority of complaining about changes to skills and stats. This way, they know if and when its coming and there is no mystery about it. You wouldnt see 5 threads a day petitioning for one. - It promotes testing of new gear - It forces CCP to make more viable releases if people will just skill out of them should they become useless. This promotes the testing of new releases by players as there is less risk involved with it. - It may bring back lost players - The pool for players is not as large as many think. This is a FPS video game on a Sony platform. FPS games are one of the core genres of consoles and the PS3 is soon to be outdated. Standing on your soapbox and saying "if you dont like it then leave" has led to just that, players leaving. Life is about making compromises to survive and this is no different. For this game to survive, it needs to make sure that the expectations if its customers are met. The PS3 community will not be growing anymore, only shrinking. This isnt EVE where computers can evolve separately from the game itself and thus allowing it to evolve as well. You have a declining consumer base which means that retaining players is even more critical. This isnt about me being greedy and wanting to avoid consequences. I would benefit very little from a respec. What this is about is wanting to save this game as I still have some faith in it. Until this game has evolved to a state where its no longer a lobby FPS, its going to need to retain many of the aspects of FPS games. When it is as diverse as EVE is then I can see it finally doing away with respecs.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 672	Posted - 2013.10.11 13:14:00 - [85] - Quote first of all, Dust is not EVE. EVE is a Sandbox MMORPG. in EVE all SP gain is fully passive. if you are not happy you play another game for a month and you get enough SP to try something new. when you want something totally different you just get a new character by creating a new account and pay for it and skill it up next to your main, or you just buy another character from someone else that is already skilled up. In EVE there is also alot more stuff to do In EVE basic content also isnt missing and bugs dont plague the gameplay. In EVE skills and content also do not get a major change every patch, changing the way you played before. EVE has a stable playerbase. EVE is finished and only gets new expansions and rebalances from time to time. DUST is just a F2P lobby shooter at the moment. in Dust passive skill gain is alot lower, you have to play to get decent sp. In Dust you cant do anything else beside kill the other team. Dust is still full of bugs, descriptions are not proper and in every patch something gets a major change, often CCP is changing the way you are playing (like in the near future, removing some vehicles and changing skills), your decision actually do not matter here or are a gamble. DUST playercount at primetime is declining by ~500 per month. DUST is still just beta, despite being commercially used. in short: should I continue with that listing? all anti SP reallocation arguments are invalid by the facts I listed, deal with it. Bethhy wrote: Do you actually remember what happened after that respec? Because it changed the entire balance of the game.. as well as started the FOTM cycle... the caldari AR FOTM already existed before and everyone was already running in caldari proto suits with TAR because there wasnt anything else to use. before that you had viziam, unhittable scouts, 20k ehp tanks, remote explosive tossing, long range scrambler pistols oneshotting people in the head, mass driver & sniper HMG. FOTM cycle was already there and your statement just shows that you have no clue.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 1697	Posted - 2013.10.12 22:06:00 - [86] - Quote Void Echo wrote: well... if I don't get a respect when the vehicle changes come, youl never see my ass logged into dust again.. a lot of other people have already left because they don't have enough sp to enjoy the game or skill into what they want when they have a few million SP. respecs would save the game if only it happened once a major change would be implemented, no other time, other than that, youl have to pay aurum for one. to all you who say respecs would hurt the game, this game is nearly dead because its stale and nothing new is here, people already have their ** maxed out to the point where its ridiculous not to have a respect. "it ruins the meaning of the game" .... ok so you would rather keep this game nearly dead than have a lot of people come back because your a diehard eve pilot? For once i can 100% agree with void. LOL As it is, everyone want to keep the game with no respecs but the GAME is dying,** new content is not comming out fast enough and a repec option would breathe some new life into dust. For those who say: ''There is infinite SP, just grind'' 1-Grinding is a horrible game mechanic that everybody hates. I would (personally i dont speak in the name of my corp or anything) love to see a SP cap, say 20-30 mill. But instead have a regular (Say once every 6 months) to repec option. 2-SP is infinite, the time people have isnt. I Work 10 hours a day and study in collage, is a MIRACLE im still playing a game as time consuming as DUST. as it is,many people that have busy lives have already left,and might consider coming back if they could just avoid the grind and use their well deserved SP to skill into something they are interested in.......
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis 646	Posted - 2013.10.13 03:24:00 - [87] - Quote Until we have higher 'layers' of something that we can skill into, the grind is pointless other than enjoying the game with friends. Are we supposed to just skill into suits/weapons that are our second choices? In an RPG, the grind is ok because people are always striving for something better. There is always another tier to reach that makes you want to put in the effort. Right now I have my suit of choice, I have three proto main weapons and two proto sidearms and all the equipment I could possibly fit. Right now I am just stockpiling SP in HOPE that there will be that next thing that I will want to skill into and spending some here and there are marginal improvements to what I already do. Until they expand this game beyond the lobby shooter that it is, this will continue to be the case. Until it reaches this state, they need to treat it like an FPS and allow people the ability to freshen it up or correct their mistakes. DUST is not EVE There is no RPG element There are tiers in DUST where the more you skill into something the better you are in all regards There is no persistence to battle beyond the 10-20 minutes you are fighting the other team There are no castles, only pixels on a 'map' You dont build anything other than your wallet Until this game evolves beyond a lobby shooter there is absolutely no reason to treat it as more. EVEs rules work for EVE but this game is not anywhere near that level yet.


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