DUST Search - Why do you people want to nerf the logistics class?

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

OKOK you people are driving me crazy:

GÖª They are called Logis. NOT Medics. This comes from Logistics :'' Logistics is the discipline of planning and carrying out the movement and maintenance of military forces''.
GÖª Logis are Assaults v.2, BUT they are NOT better, just different. The fact they seem stronger is because this build benefits HP tanking NOT speed. In Chromosome, you could tank a Logi and it would be a joke compared to Scouts and assaults.
GÖª Logis have more customization, usually more HP and Armor rep as bonus. Also have 3 equipment slots and more CPU/PG. Assaults have greater Stamina, SPeed , pack a side arm and have less profile and better radar functions.Thir bonus promotes Shield regen rate that works well for all but the Gallante. This is COMPENSATED by the fact hte Gallante logi makes the most of the Logi bonus.
GÖª The overall price of running a full fitted Logi,is a lot more than an assault. More module slots & Equipment = More Customization = More ISK investment.

A Logi has the CHOICE to be full support, full killer, or -+ and -+.
The assault must be asault.

That is the main difference.

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Beforcial REAPERS REPUBLIC 26	Posted - 2013.10.06 06:44:00 - [91] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Crash Monster wrote: Dust Junky 4Life wrote: YOU IDIOTS!! Logi's NEED the xtra slots, for protection. Keep whinning about it, u wont have medics anymore. Im the BESTEST medic in dust. I will run through fire and raining bullets to save you. Only 10k kiills but got 3mill WP. If logi's are supposed to be medics something is broken. We never were supposed to be medics. Just a medium suit with more fitting options and extra equipment. Exactly the mistake that 80% of players make. For some reason Logistic Suits are supposed to be the only ones running around with Nano-Injectors. Really? If you want to get picked up more often how about you consider using some of your fits with Nano-Injectors instead of your Nanohives that you never drop anyway or rarely do. Logistics to me seemed a lot more important than the average Assault Grunt: The prevalent view is that term logistics comes from the late 19th century: from French logistique (loger means to lodge). Others attribute a Greek origin to the word: ++-î+¦++-é (pronounced logos) meaning reason or speech, +++++¦+¦-â-ä+¦+¦++-éb (prononced logistikos) meaning accountant or responsible for counting.[1] The Oxford English Dictionary defines logistics as "the branch of military science relating to procuring, maintaining and transporting material, personnel and facilities." However, the New Oxford American Dictionary defines logistics as "the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies", and the Oxford Dictionary on-line defines it as "the detailed organization and implementation of a complex operation".[2] Another dictionary definition is "the time-related positioning of resources". As such, logistics is commonly seen as a branch of engineering that creates "people systems" rather than "machine systems". According to the Council of Logistics Management, logistics includes the integrated planning, control, realization, and monitoring of all internal and network-wide material, part, and product flow, including the necessary information flow, industrial and trading companies along the complete value-added chain (and product life cycle) for the purpose of conforming to customer requirements. Logistics is the process of planning, implementing, and controlling the effective and efficient flow of goods and services from the point of origin to the point of consumption
Borne Velvalor BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY 2	Posted - 2013.10.06 06:45:00 - [92] - Quote As others have pointed out, Logistics suits have too many options. The lack of a sidearm doesn't really hurt that much when you use an Assault or Scrambler Rifle. You get three or more equipment slots which allow you to carry everything including the kitchen sink with you, and fully restock them by suit swapping at a supply depot. Plus, the massive amount of slots negates the tiny amount less HP you have, because slots = HP and everything else. Really, that's the problem. Logistics have lots of slots and in this game, slots can be made into anything. It would be nice if they were limited to standard or advanced weaponry and couldn't use Complex Damage Mods. That way, they could have their pool of HP to revive front line troops without dieing and such without using that pool to go all out assault. Alternatively, they could be not allowed to use rifles. Assault and Scrambler rifles are really assault weapons. Mass Drivers, Laser Rifles, Swarm Launchers and the rest are a better fit for the support role.
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 38	Posted - 2013.10.06 07:50:00 - [93] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: Because it upsets people that helping people is more valued than killing people Half the Logi nerf threads start out with "This guy was 1 and 8 but got 2000 points" People are just mad that their 5 and 5 doesnt put them in the top 10 and by going after more kills they only end up killed more.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1561	Posted - 2013.10.06 11:01:00 - [94] - Quote Nothing wrong with getting points for helping your side win. I think some people don't realize that a well placed uplink, for example, can make the difference between winning and losing. Similarly, hacking an objective or a large blaster may have a clear impact on winning. Blasters, for example, can often give an early indication of approaching enemies (if you don't have a scanner). Getting points for doing useful things is great. Want to score higher than a logi? Be more useful and team win oriented.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 386	Posted - 2013.10.06 11:32:00 - [95] - Quote i can fit full complex tank gear on my assault suit with over 1000 ehp and a duevolle but if i tried this on my logi suit i would have no equipment all complex mods duevolle and be walking slower than most heavys and prob with about the same ehp. yes you can make a logi like an assault but as soon as you do that it becomes an assault suit and not a logi suit. its only a logi suit if is providing logi purposes. if you have no equipment because you tanked it up then its purpose is assault but it slower and weaker and dffinately more expensive. i know for a fact people see that logi suit on the killboard and they cry assault logi. i tell you now i'm no assault logi and i get plenty of kills not because i'm assaulting but because i'm protecting the people i'm healing and if i can't keep them alive i'm going to help them by finishing you off. i have about 700 ehp, 3 equipment and hardly any complex or proto gear with a gek. my full complex tank support suit sprints at about 3ms with an smg and a rep tool and nothing else. if i changed that to an AR there is no chance in hell that could be compared to an assault suit. as for wp why shouldn't someone get points for supporting his team. no one is going to pay isk for items that don't offer any way of gaining them wp
Castor Crave DUST University Ivy League 15	Posted - 2013.10.06 12:06:00 - [96] - Quote As a Gallente Logi I'd be fine with downgrading to a sidearm weapon. In that case I'd love to see more sidearms though, since I only skill into hybrid weapons, to keep my Gallente build "pure" =^.^= See this
Cosgar ParagonX 5657	Posted - 2013.10.06 12:08:00 - [97] - Quote 5 pages and not a single math is given. What makes it worse is CCP is listening to these BS complaints. I don't have the topic readily available right now since I'm on mobile, but someone did the math and even with the most outlandish dual tanked brick builds, the difference in EHP between a logi and their assault counterpart was 60~80 HP. So if they buffed the assault's base HP by that difference, would you guys finally STFU about logistics suits being better assaults?
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 160	Posted - 2013.10.06 15:25:00 - [98] - Quote BLACKSTAR AND TSUBAKI wrote: equipment WP is too dam high this is a fps dammit killing is #1 i love my logis but when i go 14/4 and they do 1/3 and top the board it itches my ass I'm going to be optimistic and assume that's sarcasm, and use it to make my usual points in these lame threads. Theres a reason you see statements like "recruiting logis", and not "recruiting AR assaults" on the corp recruitment boards. Smart corporations know our value and scarcity. In close FW matches with my corp I frequently go, say, 3/5 - 5/7 and end up #2-3 on the board (not #1 often, my CEO usu goes 25/6 or something, tough to beat that as a logi!) with around 1500-2000 WP. How? B/c I'm a good goddamn logi: - I carry a lower tier weapon or less eHP to make room for my equipment (except my AV fit, I do like hunting tanks/dropships with my proto swarms... I'm an amarr logi, what can I say) - I constantly watch the map and killfeed to see where the battle is moving to anticipate where spawn points and ammo will be needed. If there's time I drop other links behind our lines to keep us from getting outflanked. - I cut across front lines to establish new beachheads or fortify one someone else made. - I go negative b/c I do a lot of it without cover or backup wearing a slow suit with a big yellow bullseye on it. Snipers love me, it seems. - Everyone else on my team can go about their business without being distracted by any of these, yes, logistical matters because I take care of it for them and free them up to do all the killing you all hold so dear. - Importantly, if we win big or I'm on a weak team that gets protostomped, I get far less WP b/c my services are not as helpful. A lot of work most people never see goes into those WP. The equipment just appears and everyone who isn't a logi thinks all you need to do is blunder around flinging them about randomly. Some people do that, I guess, but unless its a domination match where you are literally the only one with any uplinks, it's not easy mode, and you certainly aren't going to get 2000 WP. Sure, if you need to supplement your WP income, you can get some cheap points carrying uplinks or a needle on an assault suit, and a bad logi can sometimes pull 3-500 with zero thought, but if that guy is above you atop the leaderboard, it's time to git gud, chief. Three things to remember next time your epeen suffers b/c a logi with fewer kills gets more WP: 1) You probably would have gotten less kills without them around 2) If you take away the rewards for this class, even fewer people will do it, so no ammo/reps for you! 3) They didn't steal any WP/SP from you, there is not a finite amount that gets awarded each match. ISK I'm not sure but whatever, ISK isn't that hard to get if you aren't a tanker or a tryhard who always has to run proto to succeed. ..... The more you know
MoonEagle A ShootBreakStab 41	Posted - 2013.10.06 15:34:00 - [99] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: MoonEagle A wrote: I can barely carry a nanohive or a good uplink along with my injector and rep tool and you want to reduce my CPU/PG? Before I put my shield extenders and armor I died a lot! I have a target on my back as it is being defenseless repping someone. So tired of the logi OP debate. I had someone say he didn't need a logi. Several games later he quietly asked for help because I wasn't repping him anymore. He quickly realized his kill count was high when I kept him alive. You did notice I said reduce CPU/PG costs for modules right? This would make it hard to go crazy on weapons but not reduce the ability to carry lots of modules. Won't happen... but it would be a way to focus on modules. My apologies if I didn't read your post correctly. Still frustrated at logi gripe posts.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1568	Posted - 2013.10.06 15:47:00 - [100] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: - Importantly, if we win big or I'm on a weak team that gets protostomped, I get far less WP b/c my services are not as helpful. My equipment either gets destroyed because we get redlined, or unused b/c the other team is redlined and nobody on my team needs to respawn or get repped. There's only so many WP to be had from just ammo. I might get more kills but do worse overall. If you ask me, that's the best definition of value on the battlefield: The more competitive the battle, the better I do. Easy mode would be if I got a lot of WP no matter what the outcome. I find similarities here as a scout as finding good places for uplinks is pretty useful. Anyway, good info for the masses.

Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1574	Posted - 2013.10.06 15:48:00 - [101] - Quote MoonEagle A wrote: Still frustrated at logi gripe posts. Yeah, I hear that, I get my back up at sniper hate sometimes.
Borne Velvalor BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY 4	Posted - 2013.10.06 22:09:00 - [102] - Quote Cosgar wrote: 5 pages and not a single math is given. What makes it worse is CCP is listening to these BS complaints. I don't have the topic readily available right now since I'm on mobile, but someone did the math and even with the most outlandish dual tanked brick builds, the difference in EHP between a logi and their assault counterpart was 60~80 HP. So if they buffed the assault's base HP by that difference, would you guys finally STFU about logistics suits being better assaults? As I recall, that thread was about the old Caldari logistics suit. I'm pretty sure the newer one breaks about even with a Caldari assault suit. The problem I have with Logistics suits is that if you fit them right, they can be almost as good as assault suits at killing enemies, while having three low-end pieces of equipment. So, there's not much point specializing in Assault. If you spec into Assault suits, you cannot form a Logistics role; you can only assault. If you spec into Logistics suits, you can perform both Assault and Logi roles competently. I love Logistics units that actually perform Logistics. Placing uplinks and hives in strategic locations, healing injured infantry and vehicles, reviving people, using scanners, etcetera. I don't like Logistis units that perform Assault duties, because it's ridiculous that they can spec into Logistics and still be pretty competitive in an assault role. The concept is annoying, but in practice, most Logistics users either go near-full Assault, in which case they about equal Assault suits, but with free 5 HP/S Armor regen and less speed, or are full support. So, I suppose it's not that bad.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1608	Posted - 2013.10.06 22:28:00 - [103] - Quote OKOK you people are driving me crazy: GÖª They are called Logis. NOT Medics. This comes from Logistics :'' Logistics is the discipline of planning and carrying out the movement and maintenance* of military forces''. GÖª Logis are Assaults v.2, BUT they are NOT better, just different. The fact they seem stronger is because this build benefits HP tanking NOT speed.* In Chromosome, you could tank a Logi and it would be a joke compared to Scouts and assaults. GÖª Logis have more customization, usually more HP and Armor rep as bonus. Also have 3 equipment slots and more CPU/PG. Assaults have greater Stamina, SPeed , pack a side arm and have less profile and better radar functions.Thir bonus promotes Shield regen rate that works well for all but the Gallante. This is COMPENSATED by the fact hte Gallante logi makes the most of the Logi bonus. GÖª The overall price of running a full fitted Logi,is a lot more than an assault. More module slots & Equipment = More Customization = More ISK investment. A Logi has the CHOICE to be full support, full killer, or -+ and -+. The assault must be asault. That is the main difference.
Tectonic Fusion The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 320	Posted - 2013.10.06 22:33:00 - [104] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: OKOK you people are driving me crazy: GÖª They are called Logis. NOT Medics. This comes from Logistics :'' Logistics is the discipline of planning and carrying out the movement and maintenance* of military forces''. GÖª Logis are Assaults v.2, BUT they are NOT better, just different. The fact they seem stronger is because this build benefits HP tanking NOT speed.* In Chromosome, you could tank a Logi and it would be a joke compared to Scouts and assaults. GÖª Logis have more customization, usually more HP and Armor rep as bonus. Also have 3 equipment slots and more CPU/PG. Assaults have greater Stamina, SPeed , pack a side arm and have less profile and better radar functions.Thir bonus promotes Shield regen rate that works well for all but the Gallante. This is COMPENSATED by the fact hte Gallante logi makes the most of the Logi bonus. GÖª The overall price of running a full fitted Logi,is a lot more than an assault. More module slots & Equipment = More Customization = More ISK investment. A Logi has the CHOICE to be full support, full killer, or -+ and -+. The assault must be asault. That is the main difference. assault can be 1/8 medic :p
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1608	Posted - 2013.10.06 22:40:00 - [105] - Quote HAHA nice try bro. He can't. He can Carry a N.Injector but that does not makes him a medic. You need Repair + N.Injector to earn the right to be called Medic. Plus no assault is going to use a N.injector instead of an active sanner/nanohive.... Unless they are mad. XD
maeth-01 2501 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.11.07 04:10:00 - [106] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: HAHA nice try bro. He can't. He can Carry a N.Injector but that does not makes him a medic. You need Repair + N.Injector to earn the right to be called Medic. Plus no assault is going to use a N.injector instead of an active sanner/nanohive.... Unless they are mad. XD so that means he is 1/16 medic..... I ran around with a N.injector because it was the only thing I could fit...... not because I was mad..... don't think I will be doing it again though... Laugh, and the world laughs with you;Weep, and you weep alone.............


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