QQ much?

any tank going 30 and 0 is when nobody goes AV because they're lazy and want easy infantry assist kills or they are terrible.

Av is cheap, costs little SP and I've never met a tank I couldn't put the finishing blow on with a militia forge and some AV nades.

A. "remove the only weapon". Are are impling you think the only weapon capable of killing a vehicle is (proto) forge? lawl?
B. remove dropsuits. Ok QQ Queen.

Well there will always be some who say its fine but if you take two people, one in a standard fit another in a proto fit, even the standard getting the drop on the proto does not necessarily mean a kill simply due to stats
Imagine going against a tank with twice as much health as your own that does more damage on top of that, not unbeatable but the stats give enough of a cushion that even if the opponent isnt as good as you they might come out on top

to be clear you want to remove advanc and better in swarms, forge guns, grenades, and proximity mines?

i'd get a good laugh I guess with how easy of a time good tank pilots would have.

AV cheap ? Die 5 times in a row just to "scare" a tank away ? and then die another 5 times trying to hunt it down ?

I actually spent about 500,000 isk in battles just trying to "scare" a tank away from a position ...with not rewards... No WP, not kills... not ISK... NOTHING. Just helping my team to defend an area... that is it.

I think you're missing the point

In other words let me get this clear:

You want vehicles to have half their roles stripped out, modules removed, and hulls all stuck at standard.
While you Blap at them with a proto assault forge gun and Lai AV nades.

And you expect this will somehow give CCP a better picture of how to adjust balance against AV and vehicles?
When no vehicle will last more than 2 seconds on the field?.


How the hell am I supposed to survive more than a moment in a STD dropship when everyone on the enemy team already has proto swarms?

This guy should be CPM. He's totally unbiased and sensible
/s

Let me get this straight.... you don't want Prototype weapons destroying you STD tank ? I am hearing this correctly ?

idk where you're hearing that, nobody ever said it.
What exactly is wrong with you?

How the hell am I supposed to survive more than a moment in a STD dropship when everyone on the enemy team already has proto swarms?

Let me get this straight.... you don't want Prototype weapons destroying you STD tank ? I am hearing this correctly ?

[quote=Nguruthos IX]


How can you seriously complain about this with a straight face...You know how much SP and ISK proto swarm launchers cost ?

PS as it is 2 people with militia swarms or 1 person with a militia forge is area-of denial on penalty-of-death
to any dropship.


Being on the ground means you're liable to be rushed by anyone with even basic AV nades.

When I saw his post I figured those with narrow minds would enter with the rawr rawr djibawr. IMO it would be a btter test of current vehicles to see their survivabilty versus MLT/STD/ADV, ADV is still very tricky for tanks, they catch you off guard or being cocky they can destroy you fast, also they are very good for getting a tank to retreat.
What they don't have is patheticly OP abilities.

except that swarms will not bring a dropship down... trololo afterburner.

I am narrow minded ? Seriously, do you know how much SP you have to invest in an AV weapon to get it to the point that does some "serious" damage ? Then to that add CPU and PG restrictions, which means that you will need Core skills too.. and most likely also a Proto suit to use it. Now... add all the SP and ISK.... done ? now.. talk me who is being narrow minded

Not that we players haves say in it, but just insider the long term.

Whatever AV stays in is going to be balanced against STD vehicles, then ADV and PROTO vehicles will be added back.

If I were an AV player I would demand AV be striped down to STD for the balance pass against STD vehicles.

Yeah because all of that sounds like absolute **** compared to the exact same arguements coming from vehicles with more merit.

AV takes a lot of SP to be effective?
Are you kidding me? Know how much SP it takes to make any vehicle remotely viable? They're not even viable when maxxed.

Proto swarms are expensive? You don't even need them but if you wanted how can you justify that compared to the million isk DS that goes down when 2 militia forge train it?


Get outta here

I am narrow minded ? Seriously, do you know how much SP you have to invest in an AV weapon to get it to the point that does some "serious" damage ? Then to that add CPU and PG restrictions, which means that you will need Core skills too.. and most likely also a Proto suit to use it. Now... add all the SP and ISK.... done ? now.. talk me who is being narrow minded

Give me a lower leveled Assault FG and I'm cool with it. The issue with removing FGs is they're also effective vs installations and infantry.

I am narrow minded ? Seriously, do you know how much SP you have to invest in an AV weapon to get it to the point that does some "serious" damage ? Then to that add CPU and PG restrictions, which means that you will need Core skills too.. and most likely also a Proto suit to use it. Now... add all the SP and ISK.... done ? now.. talk me who is being narrow minded

If your wanting to talk about sp investment it took 15 mill to max out everything on my falchions. I know it alsi dosent take any whare near that to run proto swarms as I run both proti swarm and proto forge as well as adv in every other wepon.

If your wanting to talk about sp investment it took 15 mill to max out everything on my falchions. I know it alsi dosent take any whare near that to run proto swarms as I run both proti swarm and proto forge as well as adv in every other wepon.

decent point on the complication of weapon variants as tiers go up.

But what if that somehow ends up getting removed then you're right. It'd be ok.


"The issue with removing FGs is they're also effective vs installations and infantry."
Well not removing them just keeping them to a basic level.

a militia FG+ militia damage mod 3 shots any installation currently.
I believe it would direct shot any infantry as well. Like 1300+ dmg.

do explain the term tiericide

Thoughts?

I know it would suck, and I sure wouldn't want to do it.
But lets be honest here, this is nothing to do with nerfing AV or making the game suck for AV players while re-building vehicles.

I just honestly wonder how CCP intends to balance vehicles VS av if they are starting with standard vehicles and working their way up from there (slowly).
play-testing that will yield some data that's pretty difficult to shift though and interpret unless everything was standard vs standard.


And on another point I think it would be prudent before 1.7(vehicles?) to add the amarr and min standard vehicle variants.
What good is 'balancing' the bottom up of only two races and then pluggin in the last 2 randomly?


Thoughts?

Hi Nine!

It depends on how the vehicle changes pan out. I've read the vehicle thread and share the concerns of experienced Tankers and Pilots who appear -- at first glance -- to have far fewer options at their disposal. That said, we can't yet assign a threat-level to upcoming vehicle-mounted weaponry. If tank-mounted missile turrets, for example, can decimate squads in seconds then I suspect Proto AV will still be needed to maintain ground-unit balance.

As for aerial balance, I suspect that Swarms will still pose little threat to Dropships (unless I've missed something). On Forge Guns, I'm inclined to agree with Pyrex's well-reasoned position: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc3TdcyHLTU

It is problematic that a single infantry unit can clear the airspace for an entire match. That said, I feel for our fatties; it breaks my heart to see them running Duvolles over heavy weapons. A Forge Gun change should take into account the fact that the HMG is quite useless in half our maps.

Just my two cents.

- Shotty GoBang
- Swarm Operation V / Proficiency III