So you want to remove the advanced but leave our proto stuff alone huh
I like the way you think

har har. Implied removal of anything advance or better, to match vehicles so this can actually be accessed tier by tier symmetrically.

the goal:
balance AV+vehicles, vehicles vs vehicles.

vehicle vs vehicle is starting out with just standards and (should include all races).
You'd think to do av vs vehicles would require standards for any proper analysis.

This helps ensure neither vehicles nor AV end up OP at any point between standard to proto

Yes balance is important but so far CCP hasnt really shown they can balance the tiers between similar play styles let alone two that play completely different from each other so if Im going to support removing tiers Im not going to say lets just remove the AV tiers so the tankers stop crying but lets gut the entire system and start from scratch with just one tier

Just that alone would drastically simplify balancing the system IMO

I wasn't aware ground balance was that off. But if consensus points that it is, that'd be fine too.

you can remove them if I get a respec

I'm hoping (and by the looks of it my hopes are pretty well founded) that they're going to test out a tiercided model for vehicles. I mean, even the WIP stats on these vehicles are pretty damn high, coupled with optional turrets, makes the potential for VERY tough vehicles, even against prototype AV. So if I'm not mistaken this is going to be a very interesting few months.

It's obvious that anyone thing being changed as drastically as vehicles were, or having tiers removed temporarily will be getting a respec.

They'll prob do a full respec to keep things simple.

Also the AV-vehicle and vehicle-vehicle balance somewhat lies independent of ground-ground.

As there's not really a whole lot of consideration on light weapons vs vehicles.



So these systems Could be tested independently if needed, ie: vehicles and av stripped to standard this time.
ground all stripped to standard later.



And with the ground-ground would balance AV weapon efficiencies vs ground units like forge or plasma cannon.

do explain the term tiericide

I really hope there will be a respec, everyone would benefit from it. fresh air for everyone, testing and feedback can be speed up and new players can correct mistakes...


tiercide means that all suits are about equal, they only differ in specialization.

you can remove them if I get a respec

I know it would suck, and I sure wouldn't want to do it.
But lets be honest here, this is nothing to do with nerfing AV or making the game suck for AV players while re-building vehicles.

I just honestly wonder how CCP intends to balance vehicles VS av if they are starting with standard vehicles and working their way up from there (slowly).
play-testing that will yield some data that's pretty difficult to shift though and interpret unless everything was standard vs standard.


And on another point I think it would be prudent before 1.7(vehicles?) to add the amarr and min standard vehicle variants.
What good is 'balancing' the bottom up of only two races and then pluggin in the last 2 randomly?


Thoughts?

assuming proto and adv turrets were also removed of course...tanks currently deal proto dmg they just dont take it.

I think you have a good point and I would be willing to do this myself. The only problem is I'm sure it won't be a popular choice so my willingness to comply would be useless. Another thing to consider would be when the new dropsuits come out (whenever that may be); do we ask people to go back to using standard dropsuits? Or is the addition of dropsuits too subtle compared to reworking vehicles and do not require the same measures to be taken?

assuming proto and adv turrets were also removed of course...tanks currently deal proto dmg they just dont take it.

Why are people forgetting that they are releasing vehicle and weapon rebalances at the same time? So AV will be rebalanced with the new vehicles.

Yes we do proto dammage well sort of but after the removal of turret proficiency we had our dammage nerfed when av got to keep proficiency dammage.

Only if you accept a temporary removal of you turrets.

I am all for tiericide. Fantastic move on the EVE side. I was very very surprised when they kept the tiers in Dust 514 Uprising. It seemed archaic compared to the EVE model of all ships have a place/specialty.

I would like to see more suits with differing bonuses that encourages specialization. Based on layout and bonuses, suits can be more general, filling two roles in one, and on the other hand a suit that fills one role very well.

I would say same goes for vehicles, although I think vehicles lend themselves very well to the T3 model of eve ships. Base hulls but certain "parts" can turn the ship from assault to transport or to logistic (dropship example).

This community is getting stupider by the hour....

I see tanks going 30-0 / 40-0 in regular basics, most AV weapons are useless against them... and you want to temporally remove the only weapons that can make them run for cover now and again ?

I have a better idea; Just remove Dropsuits altogether, and lets make Dust 514 a Vehicles only game.