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KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1419
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Here is a picture of what Dust should look like right now
-Infantry tactically playing behind cover, storming a building and reaching objective. -Outside you hear several tanks suppressing the enemy from leaving an objective they own, and an LAV chasing them around repairing. -Another LAV swerving around dropping off infantry at objectives, because Objectives Matter (forgot to mention Dust now rewards teams for winning) -A dropship flying in to hover over an objective, laying suppressive fire while dropping several shock troopers to blitz back their null cannon. -A couple other dropships flying around repairing vehicles and installations -LAV coming in to carry out players pinned down by the tanks and bring them to a remote location where they can call in and board up another dropship, rather than running across a large open field being blapped by tanks and snipers.
Here is a picture of what dust looks like now, instead:
-infantry everywhere, its call of duty -1 guy running Forge Gun, going 15-0 vs infantry -someone calls in a tank or dropship which is destroyed by Forge before it can even deploy. -Someone who successfully deployed a tank is rushed by 1-2 infantry with some basic AV nades and they gib the tank -someone who managed to get a dropship airborne is killed in under 3 seconds by Assault Forge gun. -back to infantry 514
The game you described as it SHOULD be could work, if we had 128 vs 128 matches like in MAG LOL. Impossible with the few players per game we have now.
The second game you described is an exageration. How can you say its infantry 514 when we have tanks taht currently turn whole matches to their favour in 2-3 minutes? Sure , the balance its broken,but -+ of the difference is made by the team you play with, not your tank. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
437
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Here is a picture of what Dust should look like right now
-Infantry tactically playing behind cover, storming a building and reaching objective. -Outside you hear several tanks suppressing the enemy from leaving an objective they own, and an LAV chasing them around repairing. -Another LAV swerving around dropping off infantry at objectives, because Objectives Matter (forgot to mention Dust now rewards teams for winning) -A dropship flying in to hover over an objective, laying suppressive fire while dropping several shock troopers to blitz back their null cannon. -A couple other dropships flying around repairing vehicles and installations -LAV coming in to carry out players pinned down by the tanks and bring them to a remote location where they can call in and board up another dropship, rather than running across a large open field being blapped by tanks and snipers.
Here is a picture of what dust looks like now, instead:
-infantry everywhere, its call of duty -1 guy running Forge Gun, going 15-0 vs infantry -someone calls in a tank or dropship which is destroyed by Forge before it can even deploy. -Someone who successfully deployed a tank is rushed by 1-2 infantry with some basic AV nades and they gib the tank -someone who managed to get a dropship airborne is killed in under 3 seconds by Assault Forge gun. -back to infantry 514
And the reason why the latter is the reality is because most players don't have a military background and/or a love for military strategy and traditional strategy games.
If we had more of that crowd there'd be a much richer tactical combat environment.
Btw, if anybody is doing that let me know. I'm all about that stuff. To h*ll with k/dr and all that power play crap. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1873
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:Here is a picture of what Dust should look like right now
-Infantry tactically playing behind cover, storming a building and reaching objective. -Outside you hear several tanks suppressing the enemy from leaving an objective they own, and an LAV chasing them around repairing. -Another LAV swerving around dropping off infantry at objectives, because Objectives Matter (forgot to mention Dust now rewards teams for winning) -A dropship flying in to hover over an objective, laying suppressive fire while dropping several shock troopers to blitz back their null cannon. -A couple other dropships flying around repairing vehicles and installations -LAV coming in to carry out players pinned down by the tanks and bring them to a remote location where they can call in and board up another dropship, rather than running across a large open field being blapped by tanks and snipers.
Here is a picture of what dust looks like now, instead:
-infantry everywhere, its call of duty -1 guy running Forge Gun, going 15-0 vs infantry -someone calls in a tank or dropship which is destroyed by Forge before it can even deploy. -Someone who successfully deployed a tank is rushed by 1-2 infantry with some basic AV nades and they gib the tank -someone who managed to get a dropship airborne is killed in under 3 seconds by Assault Forge gun. -back to infantry 514 The game you described as it SHOULD be could work, if we had 128 vs 128 matches like in MAG LOL. Impossible with the few players per game we have now.
The second game you described is an exageration.How can you say its infantry 514 when we have tanks taht currently turn whole matches to their favour in 2-3 minutes? Sure , the balance its broken,but -+ of the difference is made by the team you play with, not your tank.
What you mean tanks who run into a pub group of people too intent on using ARs instead of switching out any AV?
|
The legend345
TeamPlayers EoN.
1015
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:I find it kinda stupid when he said that vehicles should be nerfed even more, but cost real cheap. Don't think so. All other points were decent however. NOT HP wise, but firepower wise.I wouldnt mind AV weaponry being WEAKER, but Vehicles have reduced efficiency vs infantry but increased vs installations and other vehicles. AS he said. a Tank countered by a tank, a dropship by a dropship,but you couldnt counter infantry with a vehicle,just with more infantry. I COULD LIVE with that.The problem is , most vehicle users want buffs on their vehicles (which im not against) BUT AT THE SAME TIME NERFS on AV.And this puts all the weight on the Vehicle part of the balance. And i refuse. I want Chromo-level efficiency. I was able to easily able to make a profit with my skills. With 1.4, it's become impossible. **** that. It wasn't impossible to solo people then, but it was way harder than now. Is that too much to ask? EDIT: Not really firepower wise, that was way too high. firepower as is now, but surviveability at chromo. . Tanks in chromo were unstoppable. Even by organized AV squads, they would at worst go 40+ kills 1- deaths... Again i wouldnt mind Chromo tanks, but with reduced efficiency vs Infantry; to a level where a tank can be used as wall and support fire but not to dominate an entire match by itself. The only counter to this tank,being another tank...(Or DS) The thing is they may have been overpowered for pubs, but for pc they weren't. The powerful tanks were strong enough where the main way to take one out was with another tank. Most chromosome matches two tanks spent most of the time against each other. I wont go on to say how things should be but i will say tanks cant be balanced for pubs. |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1419
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
The legend345 wrote: The thing is they may have been overpowered for pubs, but for pc they weren't. The powerful tanks were strong enough where the main way to take one out was with another tank. Most chromosome matches two tanks spent most of the time against each other. I wont go on to say how things should be but i will say tanks cant be balanced for pubs.
Well , even if i agree with you. STILL pub mathes are part of Dust. And even if some of you dont like it, its part of the same game. Then make it simple. Make them more powerful , what not, but reduce the LIMIT OF TANKS in a pub match, to 1 per team.
Done, you are welcome. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1021
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:I find it kinda stupid when he said that vehicles should be nerfed even more, but cost real cheap. Don't think so. All other points were decent however. NOT HP wise, but firepower wise.I wouldnt mind AV weaponry being WEAKER, but Vehicles have reduced efficiency vs infantry but increased vs installations and other vehicles. AS he said. a Tank countered by a tank, a dropship by a dropship,but you couldnt counter infantry with a vehicle,just with more infantry. I COULD LIVE with that.The problem is , most vehicle users want buffs on their vehicles (which im not against) BUT AT THE SAME TIME NERFS on AV.And this puts all the weight on the Vehicle part of the balance. And i refuse. I want Chromo-level efficiency. I was able to easily able to make a profit with my skills. With 1.4, it's become impossible. **** that. It wasn't impossible to solo people then, but it was way harder than now. Is that too much to ask? EDIT: Not really firepower wise, that was way too high. firepower as is now, but surviveability at chromo. . Tanks in chromo were unstoppable. Even by organized AV squads, they would at worst go 40+ kills 1- deaths... Again i wouldnt mind Chromo tanks, but with reduced efficiency vs Infantry; to a level where a tank can be used as wall and support fire but not to dominate an entire match by itself. The only counter to this tank,being another tank...(Or DS)
chromo was almost as bad as Uprising. they were usable, but it was challenging. They had a lot of damage potential, so it was pretty easy to kill AV, plus we could see them all the time, so that was a non issue. With the damage stats as is, it would be fine. Plus, a AV squad was unable to take out a single HAV? Ha! I could solo them. I had to try my best, and with PROTO AV, but it was possible. I noticed that idiots were trying to use MLT AV, firing at weird intervals, missing shots (a lot), so of course nobody could kill them. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6537
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Been saying that for a looong time >_<
+1
Death to the Ishukone, or up with medium modules!
(coming from a pilot who also locks down air play with his Ishukone) |
Awesome Pantaloons
Tech Guard
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
I agree that the inability to fly dropships is unfortunate, being a pilot myself, but dammit people nerfing the Forge Gun is not the answer! The FG is perfect. It does its job. If CCP messes it up, then the whole thing starts all over again but from the other side. I don't pretend to have all the answers (like so many seem to do...), but I can recognize when I see something that is NOT the answer. Nerfing the forge gun is among them. :T Get yer dirty mitts away from mah Ferge Gern!!! |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1426
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
chromo was almost as bad as Uprising. they were usable, but it was challenging. They had a lot of damage potential, so it was pretty easy to kill AV, plus we could see them all the time, so that was a non issue. With the damage stats as is, it would be fine. Plus, a AV squad was unable to take out a single HAV? Ha! I could solo them. I had to try my best, and with PROTO AV, but it was possible. I noticed that idiots were trying to use MLT AV, firing at weird intervals, missing shots (a lot), so of course nobody could kill them.
''chromo was almost as bad as Uprising'' Agreed. Only tanks had the upperhand in chromo. AV in uprising.
'' plus we could see them all the time, '' You still can! :3 its called active scanners. I do agree thou, there should be some kind of signal,maybe a different color , for AV infantry so tanks can have them as priority.
'' With the damage stats as is, it would be fine'' Agreed. If you dont touch AV and buff resistance to Chromo level.It would be fine.
''Plus, a AV squad was unable to take out a single HAV? Ha! I could solo them.'' Good for you,not eveybody has the same skill, assuming they do its a very common forum mistake.
''I noticed that idiots were trying to use MLT AV, firing at weird intervals, missing shots (a lot), so of course nobody could kill them'' We still have those. |
Our Deepest Regret
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
286
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
I think the only AV weapon that doesn't have a place in Dust is the swarm launcher. It's the only weapon in the game that locks on and tracks, right? What other weapon does that? At least you have to aim a forge gun.
My solution to the forge gun conundrum would be to gut its range, but buff heavy resilience to small arms fire. Make them walking tanks who can stand up to an 80gj blaster turret. Make HAVS run away when they see a heavy coming. Put the POWER back in powered armor. |
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SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr. EoN.
231
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
As usual he starts out ok but turns into a raving lunatic by the end. His example with planetside 2 is way off. Air CAV does not deal only with Air CAV, rocket pods are still the number 1 used weapons on fighters, and Libs are built to take out ground units. Tanks have to be more selective but HEAT rounds are a great compromise for most tanks, and the go to weapon for Prowlers due to the double shot mechanic. For those that don't know HEAT is High Explosive Anti Tank, which means it not only has armor piercing capabilities but is also very good against infantry. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1021
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
chromo was almost as bad as Uprising. they were usable, but it was challenging. They had a lot of damage potential, so it was pretty easy to kill AV, plus we could see them all the time, so that was a non issue. With the damage stats as is, it would be fine. Plus, a AV squad was unable to take out a single HAV? Ha! I could solo them. I had to try my best, and with PROTO AV, but it was possible. I noticed that idiots were trying to use MLT AV, firing at weird intervals, missing shots (a lot), so of course nobody could kill them.
''chromo was almost as bad as Uprising'' Agreed. Only tanks had the upperhand in chromo. AV in uprising.'' plus we could see them all the time, '' You still can! :3 its called active scanners. I do agree thou, there should be some kind of signal,maybe a different color , for AV infantry so tanks can have them as priority.'' With the damage stats as is, it would be fine'' Agreed. If you dont touch AV and buff resistance to Chromo level.It would be fine. ''Plus, a AV squad was unable to take out a single HAV? Ha! I could solo them.'' Good for you,not eveybody has the same skill, assuming they do its a very common forum mistake. Killing tanks should not be RESERVED for Pro players/veterans. ''I noticed that idiots were trying to use MLT AV, firing at weird intervals, missing shots (a lot), so of course nobody could kill them'' We still have those.
vehicles haven't had the upperhand since chromo.
Rendering is still a issue, and when rendering issues start up, it messes with the tacnet map.
buffing vehicles is the same as nerfing AV, only with nerfing AV, you fix the FG vs. infantry problem as well.
Right. Only soloing should be. It should take a group of regular joes (about 2-4) to take it down, but a real pro can do it in one. And not under 5 seconds.
Those guys are the idiots, and should never get a major say on damage values. Like we have seen, it could lead to disaster. |
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan
Murder Cakes Of Doom
384
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
chromo was almost as bad as Uprising. they were usable, but it was challenging. They had a lot of damage potential, so it was pretty easy to kill AV, plus we could see them all the time, so that was a non issue. With the damage stats as is, it would be fine. Plus, a AV squad was unable to take out a single HAV? Ha! I could solo them. I had to try my best, and with PROTO AV, but it was possible. I noticed that idiots were trying to use MLT AV, firing at weird intervals, missing shots (a lot), so of course nobody could kill them.
''chromo was almost as bad as Uprising'' Agreed. Only tanks had the upperhand in chromo. AV in uprising.'' plus we could see them all the time, '' You still can! :3 its called active scanners. I do agree thou, there should be some kind of signal,maybe a different color , for AV infantry so tanks can have them as priority.'' With the damage stats as is, it would be fine'' Agreed. If you dont touch AV and buff resistance to Chromo level.It would be fine. ''Plus, a AV squad was unable to take out a single HAV? Ha! I could solo them.'' Good for you,not eveybody has the same skill, assuming they do its a very common forum mistake. Killing tanks should not be RESERVED for Pro players/veterans. ''I noticed that idiots were trying to use MLT AV, firing at weird intervals, missing shots (a lot), so of course nobody could kill them'' We still have those. vehicles haven't had the upperhand since chromo. Rendering is still a issue, and when rendering issues start up, it messes with the tacnet map. buffing vehicles is the same as nerfing AV, only with nerfing AV, you fix the FG vs. infantry problem as well. Right. Only soloing should be. It should take a group of regular joes (about 2-4) to take it down, but a real pro can do it in one. And not under 5 seconds. Those guys are the idiots, and should never get a major say on damage values. Like we have seen, it could lead to disaster. i can confirm i killed his tank in 5 shots with a forge gun. it takes no skill. i kill most tanks with 4 shots and finish off with av nades or another barage of forge gun shots. :D |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
709
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
Our Deepest Regret wrote:I think the only AV weapon that doesn't have a place in Dust is the swarm launcher. It's the only weapon in the game that locks on and tracks, right? What other weapon does that? At least you have to aim a forge gun.
My solution to the forge gun conundrum would be to gut its range, but buff heavy resilience to small arms fire. Make them walking tanks who can stand up to an 80gj blaster turret. Make HAVS run away when they see a heavy coming. Put the POWER back in powered armor. We are something thousand years in the future... What do you expect to see? Stones that track? |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1021
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
chromo was almost as bad as Uprising. they were usable, but it was challenging. They had a lot of damage potential, so it was pretty easy to kill AV, plus we could see them all the time, so that was a non issue. With the damage stats as is, it would be fine. Plus, a AV squad was unable to take out a single HAV? Ha! I could solo them. I had to try my best, and with PROTO AV, but it was possible. I noticed that idiots were trying to use MLT AV, firing at weird intervals, missing shots (a lot), so of course nobody could kill them.
''chromo was almost as bad as Uprising'' Agreed. Only tanks had the upperhand in chromo. AV in uprising.'' plus we could see them all the time, '' You still can! :3 its called active scanners. I do agree thou, there should be some kind of signal,maybe a different color , for AV infantry so tanks can have them as priority.'' With the damage stats as is, it would be fine'' Agreed. If you dont touch AV and buff resistance to Chromo level.It would be fine. ''Plus, a AV squad was unable to take out a single HAV? Ha! I could solo them.'' Good for you,not eveybody has the same skill, assuming they do its a very common forum mistake. Killing tanks should not be RESERVED for Pro players/veterans. ''I noticed that idiots were trying to use MLT AV, firing at weird intervals, missing shots (a lot), so of course nobody could kill them'' We still have those. vehicles haven't had the upperhand since chromo. Rendering is still a issue, and when rendering issues start up, it messes with the tacnet map. buffing vehicles is the same as nerfing AV, only with nerfing AV, you fix the FG vs. infantry problem as well. Right. Only soloing should be. It should take a group of regular joes (about 2-4) to take it down, but a real pro can do it in one. And not under 5 seconds. Those guys are the idiots, and should never get a major say on damage values. Like we have seen, it could lead to disaster. i can confirm i killed his tank in 5 shots with a forge gun. it takes no skill. i kill most tanks with 4 shots and finish off with av nades or another barage of forge gun shots. :D
I still remember that **** move you made, and I still want to stomp your face in a pool of plasma for it. |
Sgt Buttscratch
SLAPHAPPY BANDITS
854
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 02:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
I agree with most his talk, other than walmart tanks that can only kill other tanks, that there is dumb |
Adelia Lafayette
DUST University Ivy League
342
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 02:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
anyone else read of mice and of men? Tha'ts kinda how I feel the forge gun is right now. It didn't mean to be overpowering it just is. |
DRaven DeMort
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
66
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 03:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Here is a picture of what Dust should look like right now
-Infantry tactically playing behind cover, storming a building and reaching objective. -Outside you hear several tanks suppressing the enemy from leaving an objective they own, and an LAV chasing them around repairing. -Another LAV swerving around dropping off infantry at objectives, because Objectives Matter (forgot to mention Dust now rewards teams for winning) -A dropship flying in to hover over an objective, laying suppressive fire while dropping several shock troopers to blitz back their null cannon. -A couple other dropships flying around repairing vehicles and installations -LAV coming in to carry out players pinned down by the tanks and bring them to a remote location where they can call in and board up another dropship, rather than running across a large open field being blapped by tanks and snipers.
Here is a picture of what dust looks like now, instead:
-infantry everywhere, its call of duty -1 guy running Forge Gun, going 15-0 vs infantry -someone calls in a tank or dropship which is destroyed by Forge before it can even deploy. -Someone who successfully deployed a tank is rushed by 1-2 infantry with some basic AV nades and they gib the tank -someone who managed to get a dropship airborne is killed in under 3 seconds by Assault Forge gun. -back to infantry 514
Well said.
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IceShifter Childhaspawn
DUST University Ivy League
294
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 03:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Are any of these DropShips Medium class yet? Because the symbol I see says they are light vehicles. Consider that, you are complaining because the DS variant of the LAV is getting killed by AV. Price too high for what they are and can do? No question -way too expensive for an airborne LAV.
If we try to keep these things in perspective A Dune buggy (LAV) A Glider (DS) An Armored truck (HAV)
LAVs should stay as they are, but the current HP we see on fielded tanks should belong to an APC (MAV).
An HAV should be overhauled into slow, massively tough, Slow firing death machines AND ungodly expensive. They should only die to a concerted TEAM effort and anyone who fields them should have a day job (Not viable for a primary role- too expensive) If you see one you should crap yourself into a catatonic state, and die, that you might respawn in AV BEFORE it destroys every member of your team. The tankers that survive nowadays use them like LAVs should be used -hit and run. The DS, as is, should stay -as is- Reduce the price, call it what it is -an armored GLIDER.
If they would release the Medium and Heavy variants, I am sure most of the DS discussions would disappear.
The 'Rendering' issue aside, we will see what the future brings us and all be happy to see it.
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Inyanga
Strong-Arm
42
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 07:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
My opinion, as it has been for a long time, is: leave forges alone, Nerf AV 'nades, nerf Vehicle pricing(they're too damn expensive), buff vehicle mods (incoming). Introducing new vehicles and their variants takes time, and CCP is working on them (DON"T PRE-NERF THEM!). So, in the mean-time, doing the above should be a quick and easy fix. We can work on things from there... |
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2202
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
Dropships are medium vehicles but act like clay pigeons to the FG.
He's correct in the observation that the FG has essentially kept the sky clear for months. It has been that long since I've been the least bit concerned upon hearing the distinctive whine of a dropship. At the moment I don't even bother looking to see if it's red or blue because it doesn't matter, and that's sad. |
meri jin
Goonfeet Top Men.
495
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:I find it kinda stupid when he said that vehicles should be nerfed even more, but cost real cheap. Don't think so. All other points were decent however.
Same here, tanks should be expansive and harder to kill. And then, they need a rolle on the field. As it is now, you can go 20/0 without a tank, so why pull it even out? |
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