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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
754
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 13:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Sarducar Kahn wrote:They are super assaulters simply because they can stack complex HP/DPS mods why not reduce the amount if slots to make up for the gain in equipment slots. While the have slots, pg and CPU the will always be an issue with assault logis unless they make them sidearm only or something which is going too far. Armour tanking is even nicer in them because of the 5hps so you can jut stack plates. Reduce logis potential EHP by reducing slot levels. So by your logic scouts need a nerf because they can stack plates as gallente and have about 500hp. The 5hp a second helps out of combat not in it. Or how about heavy snipers? Snipers are supposed to be easy to kill but also kill easy right? Get the picture now? There is no supposed to do anything here, you play how you want
Sorry to burst your bubble mate, but the heavy sniper arguement. Helps our side more. If you choose to be a heavy sniper, fine thats your choice we won't stop, nor should we.
But a heavy sniper has different positives and negatives to that of a scout sniper. But a heavy suit will be fitted to different roles to a scout sniper. A heavy sniper is not a hybrid role, its a sniper role in a heavy suit.
An assult logi is a hybrid role, its a logistics role AND assault role Therefore it should have significant drawbacks over playing full logi, or full assault.
Now the way to do this is to make assault suits VASTLY superior (in terms of combat effectiveness) to a logi suit while a logi suit becomes VASTLY superior (in terms of logistical play) to an assault suit.
So my proposition You must have at least 1 equipment on a logi suit equipment gets pg/cpu cost reductions on a logi suit such that 3x eq = 1+ù eq on assault pg/cpu gets homoginzed with assault suits remove passive armour repair as a logi bonus remove sheild regen penalty from logi suit
Wont harm logi players, will make assault logi hybrid roles lesser than its 2 parts! |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5471
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 13:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Sarducar Kahn wrote:They are super assaulters simply because they can stack complex HP/DPS mods why not reduce the amount if slots to make up for the gain in equipment slots. While the have slots, pg and CPU the will always be an issue with assault logis unless they make them sidearm only or something which is going too far. Armour tanking is even nicer in them because of the 5hps so you can jut stack plates. Reduce logis potential EHP by reducing slot levels. So by your logic scouts need a nerf because they can stack plates as gallente and have about 500hp. The 5hp a second helps out of combat not in it. Or how about heavy snipers? Snipers are supposed to be easy to kill but also kill easy right? Get the picture now? There is no supposed to do anything here, you play how you want Sorry to burst your bubble mate, but the heavy sniper arguement. Helps our side more. If you choose to be a heavy sniper, fine thats your choice we won't stop, nor should we. But a heavy sniper has different positives and negatives to that of a scout sniper. But a heavy suit will be fitted to different roles to a scout sniper. A heavy sniper is not a hybrid role, its a sniper role in a heavy suit. An assult logi is a hybrid role, its a logistics role AND assault role Therefore it should have significant drawbacks over playing full logi, or full assault. Now the way to do this is to make assault suits VASTLY superior (in terms of combat effectiveness) to a logi suit while a logi suit becomes VASTLY superior (in terms of logistical play) to an assault suit. So my proposition You must have at least 1 equipment on a logi suit equipment gets pg/cpu cost reductions on a logi suit such that 3x eq = 1+ù eq on assault pg/cpu gets homoginzed with assault suits remove passive armour repair as a logi bonus remove sheild regen penalty from logi suit Wont harm logi players, will make assault logi hybrid roles lesser than its 2 parts! It's a FPS, we're all technically assaults. Some just have more weapons while others have more module slots and equipment.
What bother's me most about this whole mentally challenged logi debate is the broad brush that's a dead indicator that 9/10, the complaints are coming from someone that has never touched the class, would rather blame the game instead of themselves, or hasn't done their research. Thankfully, there are people that do. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
754
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 13:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Sarducar Kahn wrote:They are super assaulters simply because they can stack complex HP/DPS mods why not reduce the amount if slots to make up for the gain in equipment slots. While the have slots, pg and CPU the will always be an issue with assault logis unless they make them sidearm only or something which is going too far. Armour tanking is even nicer in them because of the 5hps so you can jut stack plates. Reduce logis potential EHP by reducing slot levels. So by your logic scouts need a nerf because they can stack plates as gallente and have about 500hp. The 5hp a second helps out of combat not in it. Or how about heavy snipers? Snipers are supposed to be easy to kill but also kill easy right? Get the picture now? There is no supposed to do anything here, you play how you want Sorry to burst your bubble mate, but the heavy sniper arguement. Helps our side more. If you choose to be a heavy sniper, fine thats your choice we won't stop, nor should we. But a heavy sniper has different positives and negatives to that of a scout sniper. But a heavy suit will be fitted to different roles to a scout sniper. A heavy sniper is not a hybrid role, its a sniper role in a heavy suit. An assult logi is a hybrid role, its a logistics role AND assault role Therefore it should have significant drawbacks over playing full logi, or full assault. Now the way to do this is to make assault suits VASTLY superior (in terms of combat effectiveness) to a logi suit while a logi suit becomes VASTLY superior (in terms of logistical play) to an assault suit. So my proposition You must have at least 1 equipment on a logi suit equipment gets pg/cpu cost reductions on a logi suit such that 3x eq = 1+ù eq on assault pg/cpu gets homoginzed with assault suits remove passive armour repair as a logi bonus remove sheild regen penalty from logi suit Wont harm logi players, will make assault logi hybrid roles lesser than its 2 parts! Fair enough my friend I won't argue with the numbers, the maths checks out! If you think logi suits are overpowered do the maths, or get lost! However I dunno about you, but I still think the pg/cpu and equiment cost changes will make it easier to convey the role a little more! I mean thats not a nerf is it? Not really its just shuffling around the assets to give the same result! It would also stem a lot of qq! It's a FPS, we're all technically assaults. Some just have more weapons while others have more module slots and equipment. What bother's me most about this whole mentally challenged logi debate is the broad brush that's a dead indicator that 9/10, the complaints are coming from someone that has never touched the class, would rather blame the game instead of themselves, or hasn't done their research. Thankfully, there are people that do.
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Jerry Jemmott
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote: remove passive armour repair as a logi bonus
Why ?
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RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
373
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Someone drag this dead horse away...and then slap some sense into the OP.
I don't have the strength argue against this failed logic anymore. Get past the one-on-one you just lost in your latest Instant Battle, do some real f**king research and then step back as you start poking holes in your own 'theory'.
~Here Ended The Lesson~ |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
754
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Someone drag this dead horse away...and then slap some sense into the OP. I don't have the strength argue against this failed logic anymore. Get past the one-on-one you just lost in your latest Instant Battle, do some real f**king research and then step back as you start poking holes in your own 'theory'. ~Here Ended The Lesson~
Endeth
~Here Endeth Your Lesson~
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
256
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:I don't get it when someone says a suit is OP because it CAN have (x) hp. Not all the suits are going to have the same maximum hp, even in the same frame size. So far hp has been balanced by speed, the more speed you get, the less HP you get. Logis are slower than assaults, so they get a higher maximum hp. They trade a sidearm and offensive capabilities for equipment,they trade shield regeneration for armor regeneration, and they also trade speed for a bit more health than their assault counterparts. The Amarr Logi is the exception, it trades one of its equipment and a slot back to get a sidearm again.
As stated in its description its supposed to be an assault oriented logi, I said in beta if there's no logi with a sidearm im going assault upon uprising |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
256
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
There's no bubble to burst, I stated my opinion with some facts, you stated your opinion.
I'm amarr logi, working as intended and I skilled into it the moment I found it had a sidearm at proto when it was gimped |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
230
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:I don't get it when someone says a suit is OP because it CAN have (x) hp. Not all the suits are going to have the same maximum hp, even in the same frame size. So far hp has been balanced by speed, the more speed you get, the less HP you get. Logis are slower than assaults, so they get a higher maximum hp. They trade a sidearm and offensive capabilities for equipment,they trade shield regeneration for armor regeneration, and they also trade speed for a bit more health than their assault counterparts. The Amarr Logi is the exception, it trades one of its equipment and a slot back to get a sidearm again. As stated in its description its supposed to be an assault oriented logi, I said in beta if there's no logi with a sidearm im going assault upon uprising I know. I use one myself. Its a fine suit, what it doesn't get in stats, it gets in versatility. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
256
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Scratch that, forgot I didn't post the facts on why a logi can never excel at assault better, got tired of repeating myself to these threads, carry on trying to justify nerf |
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
256
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Someone drag this dead horse away...and then slap some sense into the OP. I don't have the strength argue against this failed logic anymore. Get past the one-on-one you just lost in your latest Instant Battle, do some real f**king research and then step back as you start poking holes in your own 'theory'. ~Here Ended The Lesson~
This all day, thread should have ended here really |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
754
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:There's no bubble to burst, I stated my opinion with some facts, you stated your opinion.
I'm amarr logi, working as intended and I skilled into it the moment I found it had a sidearm at proto when it was gimped
My opinion was changed with maths, I am not your enemy! |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
1035
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Maybe if Logis have a larger stacking penalty when using dmg mods. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
230
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Maybe if Logis have a larger stacking penalty when using dmg mods. That would do pretty much nothing. Maybe -2% damage for logis that stack them. Few logis stack 2, even fewer stack 3. The penalties are pretty harsh anyway, make them any harsher and gallogis/amlogis wouldn't have anything to do with their high slots but shield extenders, and that is handle befitting of a Gallente it Amarr suit, even if it is a Logi suit. |
demonkiller 12
G.U.T.Z Covert Intervention
225
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
this whole thread is tldr, assault is the best suit, i cant really explain why you just understand once you play them all, unless youre ****, then by all means go for the most HP as possible, it just means i get that much longer to toy with you |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
1041
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 15:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Maybe if Logis have a larger stacking penalty when using dmg mods. That would do pretty much nothing. Maybe -2% damage for logis that stack them. Few logis stack 2, even fewer stack 3. The penalties are pretty harsh anyway, make them any harsher and gallogis/amlogis wouldn't have anything to do with their high slots but shield extenders, and that is handle befitting of a Gallente it Amarr suit, even if it is a Logi suit. Just the penalty, so 1 complex dmg mod would still get you 10 percent and 2 would be 15 percent. |
GVGMODE
WorstPlayersEver
39
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 15:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Amarr logi master race. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
249
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 15:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
I am about to spec into logis too, sick of the garbage sentinel suit. what a joke compared to mediums. |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
680
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 15:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
The only logi that's meant to be combat/take fire like an assault is the amarr logi. Didn't work out so well. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5511
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Cosgar wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Sarducar Kahn wrote:They are super assaulters simply because they can stack complex HP/DPS mods why not reduce the amount if slots to make up for the gain in equipment slots. While the have slots, pg and CPU the will always be an issue with assault logis unless they make them sidearm only or something which is going too far. Armour tanking is even nicer in them because of the 5hps so you can jut stack plates. Reduce logis potential EHP by reducing slot levels. So by your logic scouts need a nerf because they can stack plates as gallente and have about 500hp. The 5hp a second helps out of combat not in it. Or how about heavy snipers? Snipers are supposed to be easy to kill but also kill easy right? Get the picture now? There is no supposed to do anything here, you play how you want Sorry to burst your bubble mate, but the heavy sniper arguement. Helps our side more. If you choose to be a heavy sniper, fine thats your choice we won't stop, nor should we. But a heavy sniper has different positives and negatives to that of a scout sniper. But a heavy suit will be fitted to different roles to a scout sniper. A heavy sniper is not a hybrid role, its a sniper role in a heavy suit. An assult logi is a hybrid role, its a logistics role AND assault role Therefore it should have significant drawbacks over playing full logi, or full assault. Now the way to do this is to make assault suits VASTLY superior (in terms of combat effectiveness) to a logi suit while a logi suit becomes VASTLY superior (in terms of logistical play) to an assault suit. So my proposition You must have at least 1 equipment on a logi suit equipment gets pg/cpu cost reductions on a logi suit such that 3x eq = 1+ù eq on assault pg/cpu gets homoginzed with assault suits remove passive armour repair as a logi bonus remove sheild regen penalty from logi suit Wont harm logi players, will make assault logi hybrid roles lesser than its 2 parts! It's a FPS, we're all technically assaults. Some just have more weapons while others have more module slots and equipment. What bother's me most about this whole mentally challenged logi debate is the broad brush that's a dead indicator that 9/10, the complaints are coming from someone that has never touched the class, would rather blame the game instead of themselves, or hasn't done their research. Thankfully, there are people that do. Fair enough my friend I won't argue with the numbers, the maths checks out! If you think logi suits are overpowered do the maths, or get lost! However I dunno about you, but I still think the pg/cpu and equiment cost changes will make it easier to convey the role a little more! I mean thats not a nerf is it? Not really its just shuffling around the assets to give the same result! It would also stem a lot of qq! CCP has a track record of balancing for stuff that's still on the drawing board. We could be looking at active suit modules to give logis an additional controller role. It would explain the CaLogi's ungodly slot count and why they decided to nerf CPU instead of changing their slot layout. |
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Oscar Neymar
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
59
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sarducar Kahn wrote:They are super assaulters simply because they can stack complex HP/DPS mods why not reduce the amount if slots to make up for the gain in equipment slots. While the have slots, pg and CPU the will always be an issue with assault logis unless they make them sidearm only or something which is going too far. Armour tanking is even nicer in them because of the 5hps so you can jut stack plates. Reduce logis potential EHP by reducing slot levels.
We already had this biatch fest months back and Caldari logistics got nerfed , you want a logistics that's able to bring you back into the game and repair you under fire with the capability of taking what , 2 shots from a smg ??
Quit your whining for fluck sake , this is an age old argument already settled ... go biatch about something else !
Again whinging for the sake of it ! |
DildoMcnutz
Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse
210
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:It's a FPS, we're all technically assaults. Some just have more weapons while others have more module slots and equipment. What bother's me most about this whole mentally challenged logi debate is the broad brush that's a dead indicator that 9/10, the complaints are coming from someone that has never touched the class, would rather blame the game instead of themselves, or hasn't done their research. Thankfully, there are people that do.
I didn't understand the point of that thread, all it showed was that a logi can have more ehp than an assault whilst having built in armour reps of 5, the fittings were also stupid and no one would fit like that anyway.
I don't think the Logi suit is OP as it is at all, there are enough benefits for going assault that outweigh the slot count/fitting ability for me to prefer an assault suit, being slower with less stamina is pretty annoying to me and I cant live without my six kin smg/viziam scrambler pistol either.
The only think that irks me is the rep bonus, The main defense I see is that a logi needs lots of health and a rep bonus to keep the team resupplied, repaired, revived etc. I call total BULLSH!T on that, last time I checked I don't need lots of health to hold R2 and drop equipment on the floor, I don't need a lot of health to stand behind the 5 other guys in my squad with a repair tool, I don't need lots of health to pick people up with a needle because im not mentally unstable and don't run out into hails of gunfire to pick people up like I see randoms on the other team do ALL THE TIME.
Again im not crying about the logi suit, or at you the link to that thread was just in your post, its just the reasoning behind needing all that health and rep makes me wanna face desk. The health is fine imo, I just think the rep bonus is not needed and before you ask yes I have played as a logi with other good logis who destroy and don't need more ehp than my assault. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
757
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cal logi still has too many slots. Others, not really.
Better way than to strip slots would be to swap the extra PG/CPU to bonus for equipment fitting. |
Tectonic Fusion
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
246
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:5 HP per second isn't **** if you're being shot at.
Just thank the guy for his Scanner usage and Uplink placement. (Do you know how expensive it is to haul all of those goodies around on 1 suit?)
More understanding and appreciation, less ******** will serve you well. (Life lessons are free.) Woah... Get a proto Amarr Logi then put 3 complex reppers and a complex armor plate. Reps armor faster than shields can recharge (unless they stack energizers/rechargers of course). |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5514
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
DildoMcnutz wrote:Cosgar wrote:It's a FPS, we're all technically assaults. Some just have more weapons while others have more module slots and equipment. What bother's me most about this whole mentally challenged logi debate is the broad brush that's a dead indicator that 9/10, the complaints are coming from someone that has never touched the class, would rather blame the game instead of themselves, or hasn't done their research. Thankfully, there are people that do. I didn't understand the point of that thread, all it showed was that a logi can have more ehp than an assault whilst having built in armour reps of 5, the fittings were also stupid and no one would fit like that anyway. I don't think the Logi suit is OP as it is at all, there are enough benefits for going assault that outweigh the slot count/fitting ability for me to prefer an assault suit, being slower with less stamina is pretty annoying to me and I cant live without my six kin smg/viziam scrambler pistol either. The only think that irks me is the rep bonus, The main defense I see is that a logi needs lots of health and a rep bonus to keep the team resupplied, repaired, revived etc. I call total BULLSH!T on that, last time I checked I don't need lots of health to hold R2 and drop equipment on the floor, I don't need a lot of health to stand behind the 5 other guys in my squad with a repair tool, I don't need lots of health to pick people up with a needle because im not mentally unstable and don't run out into hails of gunfire to pick people up like I see randoms on the other team do ALL THE TIME. Again im not crying about the logi suit, or at you the link to that thread was just in your post, its just the reasoning behind needing all that health and rep makes me wanna face desk. The health is fine imo, I just think the rep bonus is not needed and before you ask yes I have played as a logi with other good logis who destroy and don't need more ehp than my assault. Suit bonuses are actually a product of a tagging system. I can't remember what topic Remnant discussed it, but basically the system is flawed to the point that suits couldn't have specific bonuses and had to settle for blanket ones. As primarily an armor tanker, I can see why the gave logistics the repair bonus. While we're running support, nobody really supports us. Also, it's only 5 HP/s anyway. It's not going to save your bacon in a fire fight, but it's a help going from engagement to engagement since logistics are usually the fist thing anyone with common sense will target.
The point of the topic was to show that even with the most extreme buffer fits, logistics don't have that much of a HP advantage over their assault counterparts- barely 80EHP, give or take. Adding to that, nobody in their right mind would run those kind of fits anyway since the extra HP wouldn't be worth the lack of mobility. On top of that, Assaults will always have the advantage since assaults get access to sidearms, better base stats like shield delay/regen and mobility. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5514
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:33:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Rynoceros wrote:5 HP per second isn't **** if you're being shot at.
Just thank the guy for his Scanner usage and Uplink placement. (Do you know how expensive it is to haul all of those goodies around on 1 suit?)
More understanding and appreciation, less ******** will serve you well. (Life lessons are free.) Woah... Get a proto Amarr Logi then put 3 complex reppers and a complex armor plate. Reps armor faster than shields can recharge (unless they stack energizers/rechargers of course). One grenade and you're pretty much dead with a fit like that. Also, the Amarr logi is meant to be an assault hybrid anyway. |
Sarducar Kahn
xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers
120
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:05:00 -
[57] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Cal logi still has too many slots. Others, not really.
Better way than to strip slots would be to swap the extra PG/CPU to bonus for equipment fitting.
This would work. They have so much pg/CPU because of the equipment after all. I think they may get this when they are revisited by CCP |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
1028
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:39:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lol. You're a funny guy. Assault logis are better at defense for obvious reasons, but it all counts for nothing if they have to move. They're extremely slow and they can't recover shields nearly as fast, so they can't skirmish.
Assaults are better for offense. Logi assaults are better for defense.
Also, nobody smart uses all tank modules. Most people will throw cardiac regulators and damage mods on before getting another 66 or 131 HP. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
1028
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Sarducar Kahn wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Cal logi still has too many slots. Others, not really.
Better way than to strip slots would be to swap the extra PG/CPU to bonus for equipment fitting. This would work. They have so much pg/CPU because of the equipment after all. I think they may get this when they are revisited by CCP
No, it actually has less PG and CPU than any other logi suit. Removing slots would kill it. |
Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
387
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:42:00 -
[60] - Quote
Sarducar Kahn wrote:They are super assaulters simply because they can stack complex HP/DPS mods why not reduce the amount if slots to make up for the gain in equipment slots. While the have slots, pg and CPU the will always be an issue with assault logis unless they make them sidearm only or something which is going too far. Armour tanking is even nicer in them because of the 5hps so you can jut stack plates. Reduce logis potential EHP by reducing slot levels. Logis are meant to be the supporters, not be supported. I mean seriously? WHO do you think supplies you ammo? WHO do you think brought you up in that really expensive suit? WHO do you think gave you reps when you were dangerously low on armor? WHO dropped that uplink so you wouldn't have to run across the whole map just to defend a letter?
/thread |
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