DUST Search - My suggestion to balancing Forge guns against infantry/vehicles.

Jake Diesel wrote:

Gallente Mercenary 08551380 wrote:

Hexen Trickster wrote:

My forge gun opinion is taken from dreadnoughts

Have them 'deploy' and act just like they currently do with a setup and teardown time. That way guys on towers cant just charge up fire a shot over the edge with pinpoint accuracy and walk back, this makes them vulnerable
However they can still shoot undeployed but suffer large accuracy loss like the sniper rifle so that at short ranges they can still be used effectively but cant be mega accurate

similar things could be done with rail tanks i think but i haven't given that much thought

Thats actually a really cool idea, I've been forge gunning since chrome and I feel like this would certainly balance it out. Like you have to set up a turret stand to put the FG on or something. And they could make it so that rail tanks have to put down stabilizing legs like how firetrucks have.

Good idea

I like this idea

Really? You've been forging that long? So exactly how often do you forge? Career forger? Casual? How many skill points have you invested in you total forge gun fit? 10 million? 15 million?

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SERPENT-Adamapple Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 199	Posted - 2013.09.23 11:36:00 - [1] - Quote Shaky Cam when charging. It would make it difficult to hit infantry and tanks/dropships at a distance. Thoughts?
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 655	Posted - 2013.09.23 11:47:00 - [2] - Quote I'll still splat you with splash damage. Making something difficult to use isn't good balance. Once people learn to use it despite the "difficulty" it just goes back to being broken. Reduce the splash damage if you want it less effective vs infantry. It should take 3-4 shots of splash to kill, not 1-2.
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 535	Posted - 2013.09.23 11:51:00 - [3] - Quote can the rail tanks also have shaky cams? i don't want them rail sniping in the red line with accurate hits as well
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 378	Posted - 2013.09.23 11:53:00 - [4] - Quote I would go for damage fall off over distance. Done.
LudiKure ninda Black Phoenix Mercenaries 17	Posted - 2013.09.23 11:53:00 - [5] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: can the rail tanks also have shaky cams? i don't want them rail sniping in the red line with accurate hits as well Hate those assholes more than CCP
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 535	Posted - 2013.09.23 11:56:00 - [6] - Quote LudiKure ninda wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: can the rail tanks also have shaky cams? i don't want them rail sniping in the red line with accurate hits as well Hate those assholes more than CCP it's even worse when they don't render in the distance and leave you wondering where the shots are coming from
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 378	Posted - 2013.09.23 11:57:00 - [7] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: can the rail tanks also have shaky cams? i don't want them rail sniping in the red line with accurate hits as well Sniper tankers put shame on tankers, but shaky cam would penalize rail gunners actually going into the battle such as myself.
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 535	Posted - 2013.09.23 12:08:00 - [8] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: can the rail tanks also have shaky cams? i don't want them rail sniping in the red line with accurate hits as well Sniper tankers put shame on tankers, but shaky cam would penalize rail gunners actually going into the battle such as myself. and shaky cams would penalize us heavies as well so basically this idea from OP was stupid in the first place
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 402	Posted - 2013.09.23 12:08:00 - [9] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: I'll still splat you with splash damage. Making something difficult to use isn't good balance. Once people learn to use it despite the "difficulty" it just goes back to being broken. Reduce the splash damage if you want it less effective vs infantry. It should take 3-4 shots of splash to kill, not 1-2. There are medium frame fits that can take three splash hits from a prototype FG with one complex damage mod and Proff at 4. No Nerfs. Especially while this game remains AR 514.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3505	Posted - 2013.09.23 12:13:00 - [10] - Quote My only problem with forge guns is the assault forge gun, either increase the charge or reduce the damage, nothing should be doing that much damage that fast.

Sgt Buttscratch SLAPHAPPY BANDITS 799	Posted - 2013.09.23 12:15:00 - [11] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: can the rail tanks also have shaky cams? i don't want them rail sniping in the red line with accurate hits as well Theres literally only 1 map where redline rail sniping is doable btw. They reduced the render distance on infantry even more. We can see vehicles fine, installations are so so, you can see them, when you take a shot they disappear, infantry.... I've had a guy 37m from my rail tank not render. As for FG, yes they do have some insane dmg, and accuracy versus infantry and vehicles alike. BUT I believe its an anti-matter cannon, design to basically evaporate what ever it hits. They are working as intended. Most forge gunners suck, There are some that don't kill you with splash tho, the hit direct. I don't think weapon sway is right, they have huge heavy suits to counter it. IMO it would be more likely that a scout had a change to fall of balance when using a SG, or a medium loose control of his AR when shooting.
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 535	Posted - 2013.09.23 12:17:00 - [12] - Quote gbghg wrote: My only problem with forge guns is the assault forge gun, either increase the charge or reduce the damage, nothing should be doing that much damage that fast. i've tried the assault variants before, hitting moving infantry can be tricky, a full clip of ammo (3-4 shots) only one of those shots would OHKO someone, the rest will have missed. but using the assault FG on a tank is much better since the tank is a bigger target.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 402	Posted - 2013.09.23 12:28:00 - [13] - Quote gbghg wrote: My only problem with forge guns is the assault forge gun, either increase the charge or reduce the damage, nothing should be doing that much damage that fast. Assault FGs are the only variant that is working properly. They are also pretty much the only reason to use those crappy heavy suites.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 580	Posted - 2013.09.23 12:32:00 - [14] - Quote Add shot deviation. Problem fixed.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3506	Posted - 2013.09.23 12:37:00 - [15] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: gbghg wrote: My only problem with forge guns is the assault forge gun, either increase the charge or reduce the damage, nothing should be doing that much damage that fast. Assault FGs are the only variant that is working properly. They are also pretty much the only reason to use those crappy heavy suites. Listen, from my viewpoint (quite literally here) when I see an AFG start shooting at me or another vehicle I see two bright streaks cutting through the sky, it has a double tap that is very tricky to dodge and is more than capable of almost killing you if not killing you outright depending on your tank. I have no problem with the assault forge gun existing and I believe the current drawback is the right one, however that thing does way too much damage for its rate of fire, if an AFG blindsides a tank he can kill it before it's modules even activate, on a dropship doubly so. Rail tanks are balanced by the fact that unless they have an active sink they have to hold on the third shot or risk overheating, a forge gun doesn't have that, they can just go pop pop pop and destroy a well fitted and expensive vehicle.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Beyond Hypothetical Box 170	Posted - 2013.09.23 13:07:00 - [16] - Quote SERPENT-Adamapple wrote: Shaky Cam when charging. It would make it difficult to hit infantry and tanks/dropships at a distance. Thoughts? They have shaking cam and it is difficult to hit infantry at distance(without aim assist), and vehicles. edit: I would reduce dps of AFG so it is below FG.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 44	Posted - 2013.09.23 13:12:00 - [17] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: SERPENT-Adamapple wrote: Shaky Cam when charging. It would make it difficult to hit infantry and tanks/dropships at a distance. Thoughts? They have shaking cam and it is difficult to hit infantry at distance(without aim assist), and vehicles. Yep, this is already the case. It's a terrible mechanic as it can be overcome by players with a gaming monitor that has a built in crosshair. Do we really want people to have a hardware advantage in a console FPS? It would be much better to get rid of the shakey cam and slightly nerf damage (splash and direct).
Hexen Trickster Industrial removal service 82	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:37:00 - [18] - Quote My forge gun opinion is taken from dreadnoughts Have them 'deploy' and act just like they currently do with a setup and teardown time. That way guys on towers cant just charge up fire a shot over the edge with pinpoint accuracy and walk back, this makes them vulnerable However they can still shoot undeployed but suffer large accuracy loss like the sniper rifle so that at short ranges they can still be used effectively but cant be mega accurate similar things could be done with rail tanks i think but i haven't given that much thought
Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 31	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:01:00 - [19] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: I'll still splat you with splash damage. Making something difficult to use isn't good balance. Once people learn to use it despite the "difficulty" it just goes back to being broken. Reduce the splash damage if you want it less effective vs infantry. It should take 3-4 shots of splash to kill, not 1-2. I'd like to reply to your comment, but before I do, I'd like to ask a few questions. What dropsuit do you specifically use? What weapon do you specifically use? How many splashes from an assault forge gun kills you? Which forge gun? DAU? Ishukone?
Gallente Mercenary 08551380 The Vanguardians 27	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:01:00 - [20] - Quote Hexen Trickster wrote: My forge gun opinion is taken from dreadnoughts Have them 'deploy' and act just like they currently do with a setup and teardown time. That way guys on towers cant just charge up fire a shot over the edge with pinpoint accuracy and walk back, this makes them vulnerable However they can still shoot undeployed but suffer large accuracy loss like the sniper rifle so that at short ranges they can still be used effectively but cant be mega accurate similar things could be done with rail tanks i think but i haven't given that much thought Thats actually a really cool idea, I've been forge gunning since chrome and I feel like this would certainly balance it out. Like you have to set up a turret stand to put the FG on or something. And they could make it so that rail tanks have to put down stabilizing legs like how firetrucks have. Good idea I like this idea

Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1092	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:04:00 - [21] - Quote The only thing I'd like to see changed about FGs is their direct damage lowered by 100 or so points across the board, and splash radius reduced by half. shrugs
Shattered Mirage native warlords 311	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:35:00 - [22] - Quote gbghg wrote: My only problem with forge guns is the assault forge gun, either increase the charge or reduce the damage, nothing should be doing that much damage that fast. Reduce the damage. It fits in with every other Assault weapon's trend of having a faster fire-rate but, less damage. Leave everything else alone.
Blaze Ashra Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:55:00 - [23] - Quote I was thinking about this earlier and decided forge guns should have direct damage reduced and splash damage and possibly radius increased. That way they can go back to what's really important, killing infantry in droves and leaving my dropship the hell alone.
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 146	Posted - 2013.09.23 19:17:00 - [24] - Quote Leave only the AFG and the Breach, the "i'm a noobletmeholdthechargetillitstime" need to go. Get rid of the militia variant and replace it with a militia HMG ( OMG cant really imagine how much can suck that weapon) And cut the diameter of the explo from 6 to 4, still usable on ground (not all the Forgers are scrubbing campers )
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 146	Posted - 2013.09.23 19:19:00 - [25] - Quote And for the sake of god, add barrier on tall building, so scrublord ( FG or Thale, don't matter) can't hide and put in a bad view my beloved AFG. or BFG
Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 32	Posted - 2013.09.23 19:23:00 - [26] - Quote Gallente Mercenary 08551380 wrote: Hexen Trickster wrote: My forge gun opinion is taken from dreadnoughts Have them 'deploy' and act just like they currently do with a setup and teardown time. That way guys on towers cant just charge up fire a shot over the edge with pinpoint accuracy and walk back, this makes them vulnerable However they can still shoot undeployed but suffer large accuracy loss like the sniper rifle so that at short ranges they can still be used effectively but cant be mega accurate similar things could be done with rail tanks i think but i haven't given that much thought Thats actually a really cool idea, I've been forge gunning since chrome and I feel like this would certainly balance it out. Like you have to set up a turret stand to put the FG on or something. And they could make it so that rail tanks have to put down stabilizing legs like how firetrucks have. Good idea I like this idea Really? You've been forging that long? So exactly how often do you forge? Career forger? Casual? How many skill points have you invested in you total forge gun fit? 10 million? 15 million?
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 715	Posted - 2013.09.23 19:29:00 - [27] - Quote Forge guns are fine, this is from a tanker
Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 32	Posted - 2013.09.23 19:37:00 - [28] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: Forge guns are fine, this is from a tanker As a dedicated career forger. I thank you for your support. There are tankers out there that can survive 4 direct hits from an Ishukone and escape. And as to support you tankers. I believe that tanks survivability rate should be in this order (top to bottom): HAV MAV Dropship LLAV LAV Why oh why does an LLAV have a higher survivability rate than a tank or the others on top is beyond me. CCP clearly needs help to rebalance all vehicles. All LAV's should be the weakest of all, yet it has a better chance at surviving hotzones than tanks.
crychon xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers 38	Posted - 2013.09.23 20:25:00 - [29] - Quote if you look around in battle there are not that many forge gunners anymore or hmg users,,,, the maps are way too big you cant even make to an objective before getting slaughtered because there is no cover to recharge your shields or armor,,,,it is us forge gunners that make the vehicles give all of you a little break and time to recharge before infantry takes over,,,,,, it was us that kept popping the lavs when they were running over everyone,,,,,,,if all of us quit using them then stay out of the vehicles path because your precious ar wont help you i think for one solid week every fg hmg and swarm launcher person should not use their weapon and call up a lav instead,,, i have a blood raider bp and don't mind sharing,,,,,every time i am killed in a match it is from an ar,,,,,i dont whine about it i just jump in another suit and come back for more,,,,,why not do the same,,,,people act like they are suppose to go 20/0 every match,,,,i am lucky if i go 6/15 ,,, so why not give it a rest and leave the fgers alone
Gallente Mercenary 08551380 The Vanguardians 29	Posted - 2013.09.24 03:31:00 - [30] - Quote Jake Diesel wrote: Gallente Mercenary 08551380 wrote: Hexen Trickster wrote: My forge gun opinion is taken from dreadnoughts Have them 'deploy' and act just like they currently do with a setup and teardown time. That way guys on towers cant just charge up fire a shot over the edge with pinpoint accuracy and walk back, this makes them vulnerable However they can still shoot undeployed but suffer large accuracy loss like the sniper rifle so that at short ranges they can still be used effectively but cant be mega accurate similar things could be done with rail tanks i think but i haven't given that much thought Thats actually a really cool idea, I've been forge gunning since chrome and I feel like this would certainly balance it out. Like you have to set up a turret stand to put the FG on or something. And they could make it so that rail tanks have to put down stabilizing legs like how firetrucks have. Good idea I like this idea Really? You've been forging that long? So exactly how often do you forge? Career forger? Casual? How many skill points have you invested in you total forge gun fit? 10 million? 15 million? Well I only have about 9 million SP, but forge is what i've always been in. When we got the respec I took it just so I could make my forge fits better. Anyways to answer your questions 1. I forge every day, 80% of my matches, been going into minmatar logi recently to switch it up a bit 2. Career forger? Well idk, I have forged and do forge alot but I dont always forge. Sometimes the situation or map just doesn't call for it. 3. Um... well, a majority of my sp is in heavy and forge so Proto heavy suits Proto forge guns with prof 3 and reload 2 Level 5 in armor plating, armor repair, and handheld weapon upgrades My go to fit after a long time forging is the following in case you wish to steal it 1 complex repair, 1 complex plate, 1 basic range extender 2 complex heavy damage mods Ishukone Assault Forge Gun Submachine Gun Flux nade each one costs about 150k isk But yeah, even I, a dedicated forge gunner feel that forge guns are overpowered right now. I admit it, and I exploit it daily because I can and i'm not proud of it but whatever. Even though forge guns are overpowered a numbers nerf is not the solution, you cant keep the feeling of power you get from the FG and nerf its numbers at the same time. I feel like that the idea of having to set up the forge gun (like a tripod or something of that nature) in order to achieve current levels of accuracy would be an elegant solution. Think about it, basically tower forging is suddenly not something you can do without getting sniped or counter forged, because you are forced to immobilize. But it doesent destroy long range forging against important targets because you can still get a good amount of shots off before you are found out and countered by the enemy. Then you would have to relocate and reposition. Allowing it to still fire undeployed is good because it allows you to still defend yourself, or get down and dirty against a tank that got to close or a lav trying to run you over. Again, I approve of this idea.



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