DUST Search - My suggestion to balancing Forge guns against infantry/vehicles.

gbghg wrote:

Rusty Shallows wrote:

gbghg wrote:

My only problem with forge guns is the assault forge gun, either increase the charge or reduce the damage, nothing should be doing that much damage that fast.

Assault FGs are the only variant that is working properly. They are also pretty much the only reason to use those crappy heavy suites.

Listen, from my viewpoint (quite literally here) when I see an AFG start shooting at me or another vehicle I see two bright streaks cutting through the sky, it has a double tap that is very tricky to dodge and is more than capable of almost killing you if not killing you outright depending on your tank. I have no problem with the assault forge gun existing and I believe the current drawback is the right one, however that thing does way too much damage for its rate of fire, if an AFG blindsides a tank he can kill it before it's modules even activate, on a dropship doubly so. Rail tanks are balanced by the fact that unless they have an active sink they have to hold on the third shot or risk overheating, a forge gun doesn't have that, they can just go pop pop pop and destroy a well fitted and expensive vehicle.

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Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 32	Posted - 2013.09.24 06:33:00 - [31] - Quote Well I only have about 9 million SP, but forge is what i've always been in. When we got the respec I took it just so I could make my forge fits better. Anyways to answer your questions 1. I forge every day, 80% of my matches, been going into minmatar logi recently to switch it up a bit 2. Career forger? Well idk, I have forged and do forge alot but I dont always forge. Sometimes the situation or map just doesn't call for it. 3. Um... well, a majority of my sp is in heavy and forge so Proto heavy suits Proto forge guns with prof 3 and reload 2 Level 5 in armor plating, armor repair, and handheld weapon upgrades My go to fit after a long time forging is the following in case you wish to steal it 1 complex repair, 1 complex plate, 1 basic range extender 2 complex heavy damage mods Ishukone Assault Forge Gun Submachine Gun Flux nade each one costs about 150k isk But yeah, even I, a dedicated forge gunner feel that forge guns are overpowered right now. I admit it, and I exploit it daily because I can and i'm not proud of it but whatever. Even though forge guns are overpowered a numbers nerf is not the solution, you cant keep the feeling of power you get from the FG and nerf its numbers at the same time. I feel like that the idea of having to set up the forge gun (like a tripod or something of that nature) in order to achieve current levels of accuracy would be an elegant solution. Think about it, basically tower forging is suddenly not something you can do without getting sniped or counter forged, because you are forced to immobilize. But it doesent destroy long range forging against important targets because you can still get a good amount of shots off before you are found out and countered by the enemy. Then you would have to relocate and reposition. Allowing it to still fire undeployed is good because it allows you to still defend yourself, or get down and dirty against a tank that got to close or a lav trying to run you over. Again, I approve of this idea.[/quote] Well you've pretty much validated everything that I thought you were. And no offense, but you do not have enough experience as a forger to understand what it means to be one. First off I've got almost 14 million SP's accumulated since my respec. And months prior to uprising, I was already forging. Those were the day's when real skilled forge gunners were born since we were severely handicapped with the horrendous standing aim shot they had that at even 30 feet, the chances of hitting a standing target was near impossible. You had to quickly time your crouch just when you reached max charge to get that bullseye. Forging had nothing to do with getting that high kdr, but more just making things go boom. The only reason why many newbs who were speccing into forge guns maybe falling out is due to the knowledge that they gained realizing how difficult it is to kill anything unless you could splash them twice, or they were scouts. They soon realized it wasn't that be all kill all weapon that soo many complainers complained about and that learning the beast takes dedication to tame it. They wanted that quick kill gratification. Well it's not that weapon. That weapon rewards you when you kill something worth it's time. I've been everywhere and done everything a forger can do. And all a tripod is going to do is get you killed everytime. Why? Because powerful maxed out snipers can headshot you twice before you've even completed the setup animation. And if you think I'm joking then that's why you have no clue nor the experience. What you're asking for is not a nerf. It is a complete removal of the weapon in all of its use and purpose. No tanker would ever fear you. Snipers would laugh at you. And every other weapon out there would own you if you were even in their effective range. You'd be secluded to shooting from somewhere that no one can see you. And as soon as they do. You'll be packing up your weapon and try to relocate. Why don't you try it yourself? Grab a breach forge gun. Go on those high towers or in the heat of battle and charge your weapon. And don't hop. Let's see if you can even get halfway through your full charge before you're dead. Take it to every situation you can think of and try it. Now remember. You can't hop. You have to stand still. That breach forge will mimic exactly what you feel the weapon should be nerfed to.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 405	Posted - 2013.09.24 06:44:00 - [32] - Quote gbghg wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: gbghg wrote: My only problem with forge guns is the assault forge gun, either increase the charge or reduce the damage, nothing should be doing that much damage that fast. Assault FGs are the only variant that is working properly. They are also pretty much the only reason to use those crappy heavy suites. Listen, from my viewpoint (quite literally here) when I see an AFG start shooting at me or another vehicle I see two bright streaks cutting through the sky, it has a double tap that is very tricky to dodge and is more than capable of almost killing you if not killing you outright depending on your tank. I have no problem with the assault forge gun existing and I believe the current drawback is the right one, however that thing does way too much damage for its rate of fire, if an AFG blindsides a tank he can kill it before it's modules even activate, on a dropship doubly so. Rail tanks are balanced by the fact that unless they have an active sink they have to hold on the third shot or risk overheating, a forge gun doesn't have that, they can just go pop pop pop and destroy a well fitted and expensive vehicle. From where I am sitting here's a few ways I lose clones: On semi-open ground to Sniper Rifles, Lasers, or Large Rails. Close in to Assault Rifles faster than even the iFG can charge or the three Shotgun hit death. Small Blaster Turrets from Dropships or LAVs. Grenades. If some people think proto AV spam is bad try running a slow fatty against a single Core Locus. Never would I then go on the forums and request those weapons be nerfed. --- Since we're sharing game experience here's a few of mine in relation to your points. The weapon is slow. Before the speed boost on LAVs the base FG skill had to be at a 4 or 5 for the Standard variants to have a chance of firing before getting roadkilled. Now with zippy rides the Standard FG is junk. The two seconds plus follow up shot is glacial in game combat. Compared to the other slow weapons Swarms Launchers and Large Rail Turrets it is the only one not to see the trigger-to-fire time reduced. Personally I'm fine with that as a balance. Having flanked HAVs on some encounters they've ended up killing me or getting away. There is no guarantee. Which is in part one of the reasons to pair up for AV work. On flat ground entire four round clips have been emptied into some HAVs without destroying them. I've lost suits even with the element of surprise. Blindsiding a HAV is an unknown since not all have the same tank whereas a Large Turret kills Heavy DSs with the same consistence. --- Also regarding the whole expansive HAVs issue. Having gone negative in Forge Fits it does suck throwing ISK away in some games with no benefit so I'm trying to not be insensitive since even my worst game day case was about a six match payout to recoup and guys in properly fitted vehicles can easily have a far higher number of matches. That being said someone in a prototype dropsuit will die faster to a Large Hybrid Turret than a HAV to a FG. If the DS is more expensive than the Turret does that mean they are entitled to better survivability? ISK values are probably better kept to balancing out resource management. Ideally the value should be set to the usefulness of the gear, not the gear balanced to the price.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 54	Posted - 2013.09.24 11:30:00 - [33] - Quote The reduced TTK in 1.4 has hit ground forgers hard. Used to be the case that when you ran into an AR, you had a chance to charge your Ishukone and hit him before he drops you. It wasn't easy to hit, but at least you could get a shot off. Now the AR drops you before you finish charging, so ground forgegunning, which was always hard, is virtually impossible. Shame, as it means the weapon is only viable on roofs, which is what gives it a bad name. So I only really use HMG now.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1518	Posted - 2013.09.24 11:34:00 - [34] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: can the rail tanks also have shaky cams? i don't want them rail sniping in the red line with accurate hits as well Sniper tankers put shame on tankers, but shaky cam would penalize rail gunners actually going into the battle such as myself. someone other than me that uses the railgun in close combat????????? we should meet hehehe
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 455	Posted - 2013.09.24 11:39:00 - [35] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Keri Starlight wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: can the rail tanks also have shaky cams? i don't want them rail sniping in the red line with accurate hits as well Sniper tankers put shame on tankers, but shaky cam would penalize rail gunners actually going into the battle such as myself. someone other than me that uses the railgun in close combat????????? we should meet hehehe I love to squad up with other tankers, so when your squad has an empty slot you might invite me. I don't tank all the time, though (frustration and ISK cost), but it's what I really enjoy in this game.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1518	Posted - 2013.09.24 11:42:00 - [36] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Void Echo wrote: Keri Starlight wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: can the rail tanks also have shaky cams? i don't want them rail sniping in the red line with accurate hits as well Sniper tankers put shame on tankers, but shaky cam would penalize rail gunners actually going into the battle such as myself. someone other than me that uses the railgun in close combat????????? we should meet hehehe I love to squad up with other tankers, so when your squad has an empty slot you might invite me. I don't tank all the time, though (frustration and ISK cost), but it's what I really enjoy in this game. il hit you up in a few hours then.
Gallente Mercenary 08551380 The Vanguardians 29	Posted - 2013.09.24 13:01:00 - [37] - Quote Jake Diesel wrote: Gallente Mercenary 08551380 wrote: Hexen Trickster wrote: My forge gun opinion is taken from dreadnoughts Have them 'deploy' and act just like they currently do with a setup and teardown time. That way guys on towers cant just charge up fire a shot over the edge with pinpoint accuracy and walk back, this makes them vulnerable However they can still shoot undeployed but suffer large accuracy loss like the sniper rifle so that at short ranges they can still be used effectively but cant be mega accurate similar things could be done with rail tanks i think but i haven't given that much thought Thats actually a really cool idea, I've been forge gunning since chrome and I feel like this would certainly balance it out. Like you have to set up a turret stand to put the FG on or something. And they could make it so that rail tanks have to put down stabilizing legs like how firetrucks have. Good idea I like this idea Really? You've been forging that long? So exactly how often do you forge? Career forger? Casual? How many skill points have you invested in you total forge gun fit? 10 million? 15 million? Well sir, I don't see you offering any solutions or ideas so why are you here. I mean, the fact of the matter is that I go 20/1 on every map that has a tower, I still think it would be a good idea. And no, the breach forge gun wouldnt simulate a tripod at all, the charge time is 3x and splash radius is half. You've been forging months prior to uprising? Well if you read my post correctly so have I, I was already speced into FG when I first started playing, and I used the respec to consolidate my skills. I've been forging since February. And i'm so sorry, I didn't know I had to play this game for more than 7 months in order to not be called a noob at it When did chromosome come out? Like December of 2012? It hasn't even been 12 months since then and I'm still a noob? I'll have you know I am no noob sir, and nor should my opinion be disregarded as if I am such.
Mortedeamor Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 278	Posted - 2013.09.24 13:04:00 - [38] - Quote they jus need to aply radial falloff to forge gun splash


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