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Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1534
   |
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
You don't think players should have to pay for losing?
So you think the game should be no risk, all reward. Right.... |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1660
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You don't think players should have to pay for losing?
So you think the game should be no risk, all reward. Right....
thats the problem with it right now.
*cough* AFKers* cough* |
KGB Sleep
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
252
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:Then again what's a good player? The one with high kdr ? ( maybee just a redline sniper ) I personly take the scrub over redline snipers, redline tankers, redline forge gunners, at last the scrub is trying and dieing. Me personly if I c a guy like that I point him towards some god starter corp. God knows we need more players in the game. Regards your friendly solo logibro......or unfriendly 
IMO a good player...
Holds that door with you, trading reloads.
Logis and reps. Drops Uplinks and Hives in good places.
That guy who comes from 30m to needle you in your proto fit.
The guy who helps you hack the objective.
That dude who gets out of the dropship and attacks something.
Has good mic etiquette.
Isn't dependent on corp friends to help him kick ass. Lone wolfs like a beast.
Doesn't care about kd/r bc cares about sacrifices to win instead.
Doesn't bark orders at people. Helps with Situational Awareness.
Doesn't tk in PC. Doesn't make stupid posts that reflect badly on his corp.
Doesn't pick fights with other corps or antagonize people.
the list goes on and on, if you have to ask you aren't good.
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
63
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Posted - 2013.09.21 11:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Yeah that's elitist, doesn't sit well with me, but I understand where you're coming from. Not sure anyone should be point blank restricted from any game mode though.
How about using existing mechanics to raise the bar instead of trying to introduce something new that might be hard to balance and agree upon.
If that guy was using a basic MLT fit, then his losses were probably minor so he doesn't / didn't care and won't care about doing it again. He may not even realise that equates to a really poor match and a let down for others.
So to address that and try to impart some sense of "hey this is a bit more important than a pub match", as well as try to help you guys who want to be competitive in that FW format and not have to carry ppl, why not make restrictions on what level of item you can bring into an FW match?
For example, you could say that you must use minimum STD items (everything, suit, equipment, modules, etc.)
You could maybe then extend that idea and say that that is some sort of tier 1 FW battle that influences the result a certain amount, but then add a tier 2 for ADV only items, that influences the result more than the tier 1 battle.
That seems much better than preventing someone playing a game mode. It might also help that someone realise there's a structure involved that equates to what items you bring. Then they might realise that it costs them to go 0/17.
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Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
854
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Posted - 2013.09.21 11:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You don't think players should have to pay for losing?
So you think the game should be no risk, all reward. Right....
The risk is there in the weapons, modules, equipment, dropsuits, and vehicles you bring to the battle. When you die, you lose ISK.
If a bad player dies 10 times in a match, in an all standard Suit, he probably lost ISK in the match.
The losing team does not receive as large of a payout on top of that.
If I get stuck on a ****** team, why should I pay because my team sucks? I would already be losing ISK trying to carry a whole team to Victory. It isn't easy fighting 1 vs 16, which is what it feels like sometimes.
I was in a match earlier, the enemy had an HAV. I died 5 times trying to take it out with my FG. I was the only guy on my whole team trying to get rid of this HAV.
Tanker went 23/0
I went 5/6. I spent 3/4 of the match trying to take out the tank. I had absolutely no help. Not even when infantry was trying to support the tank. (thats where I got my kills *rubs SMG*
My team did win, but might have gotten cloned by one HAV, had I not been there to keep him pushed back. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
514
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Posted - 2013.09.21 11:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I think I now understand why one side is steam rolling the other.
Not to sound like an elitist ****, but perhaps its time to start banning bad players from FW. A person with absolutely no talent whatsoever should not be taking up a valuable FW deployment slot.
At the very least, we should be charging them for failed missions.
Was he on your side? If so did your side win? It was probably a guy in militia or STD gear trying to push against some organized dics running proto assault. +1 to the guy who went 0/17 and kept pushing. I've played this game enough to know that ppl with 'talent' quit the game when odds were not in their favor and they are solo with an average team. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1660
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You don't think players should have to pay for losing?
So you think the game should be no risk, all reward. Right.... The risk is there in the weapons, modules, equipment, dropsuits, and vehicles you bring to the battle. When you die, you lose ISK. If a bad player dies 10 times in a match, in an all standard Suit, he probably lost ISK in the match.
if a bad player dies 20 times in a match, in an all standard suit, he probably gain ISK in the match. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
854
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You don't think players should have to pay for losing?
So you think the game should be no risk, all reward. Right.... The risk is there in the weapons, modules, equipment, dropsuits, and vehicles you bring to the battle. When you die, you lose ISK. If a bad player dies 10 times in a match, in an all standard Suit, he probably lost ISK in the match. if a bad player dies 20 times in a match, in an all standard suit, he probably gain ISK in the match.
How do you figure? My Standard suit costs around 25k. If I died 10 times and made 250k I broke even, but I'm not making 250k without making at least 1000 WP, especially if I'm on the losing team. I've won battles where I went 25/5, got 2nd on the board with 1800 WP and didn't even make 300k.
You die 20 times in a match using standard gear, that match just cost you around 500k, unless you are logi, you probably didn't get more than 500 WP with a score like that. Your payout would only be about 150k ISK.
How is that an ISK gain? |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1660
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:ladwar wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You don't think players should have to pay for losing?
So you think the game should be no risk, all reward. Right.... The risk is there in the weapons, modules, equipment, dropsuits, and vehicles you bring to the battle. When you die, you lose ISK. If a bad player dies 10 times in a match, in an all standard Suit, he probably lost ISK in the match. if a bad player dies 20 times in a match, in an all standard suit, he probably gain ISK in the match. How do you figure? My Standard suit costs around 25k. If I died 10 times and made 250k I broke even, but I'm not making 250k without making at least 1000 WP, especially if I'm on the losing team. I've won battles where I went 25/5, got 2nd on the board with 1800 WP and didn't even make 300k. You die 20 times in a match using standard gear, that match just cost you around 500k, unless you are logi, you probably didn't get more than 500 WP with a score like that. Your payout would only be about 150k ISK. How is that an ISK gain?
your standard suit cost a lot, mines only 5k. so thats only 120k and most AFK matches i atleast make that. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
854
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:ladwar wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You don't think players should have to pay for losing?
So you think the game should be no risk, all reward. Right.... The risk is there in the weapons, modules, equipment, dropsuits, and vehicles you bring to the battle. When you die, you lose ISK. If a bad player dies 10 times in a match, in an all standard Suit, he probably lost ISK in the match. if a bad player dies 20 times in a match, in an all standard suit, he probably gain ISK in the match. How do you figure? My Standard suit costs around 25k. If I died 10 times and made 250k I broke even, but I'm not making 250k without making at least 1000 WP, especially if I'm on the losing team. I've won battles where I went 25/5, got 2nd on the board with 1800 WP and didn't even make 300k. You die 20 times in a match using standard gear, that match just cost you around 500k, unless you are logi, you probably didn't get more than 500 WP with a score like that. Your payout would only be about 150k ISK. How is that an ISK gain? your standard suit cost a lot, mines only 5k. so thats only 120k and most AFK matches i atleast make that.
Unless you are using BPOs, you cant make an all Standard Fitting for 5k, it's impossible.
I don't have BPOs on this toon. |
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1660
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Posted - 2013.09.21 11:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
your fault not mine. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
854
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
ladwar wrote:your fault not mine.
Very constructive! |
Needle Addict
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2013.09.21 11:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
To be honest, I'd rather lose with a group of militia users that kept moving up than win with a bunch of cowards hiding out back with proto gear. Only one of these have some pride left.
So many needles... |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1660
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:ladwar wrote:your fault not mine. Very constructive!
it is.
there still should be a penalty from doing bad and preventive measure from doing it. more so in FW where it has an effect.
PC finally got one of the most important parts for it now time for FW to get one. pub matches are pointless and not as needed. |
straya fox
CybinSect
28
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Posted - 2013.09.21 12:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
Well it may have been his first crack at it, i doubt he had any fun, so you probably will not see him there again.... |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2176
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 12:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:How do you ban a bad player ? Base it on kdr ? Base it on WPs? Neither of those work. WPs are aquired through time, it would only stop those who havent been playing long no matter what their skill. KDR ? What about logi's who dont get kills oftan but still rack up WPs?
How about squads with 5 amazing players and one whos not? Stop the entire squad?
I know it sounds horrible but it is becoming un bearable in FW.
Players who hold no stake in FW, nor are skilled enough to go toe to toe with the FW community, nor even care about which side they fight on are getting into matches, and actively sabotaging their own factions chances of winning.
This is a very good example of it. there are a hell of a lot of these 0/17 players who are jumping ships from faction to factions, losing, moving on, and dragging their teams down. This is not like in EVE where you can kick non useful players from the fleet, but there is no incentive In this game "NOT" to join in FW.
In EVE you become an active combatant and target , you can see your enemies, and allies no matter where you fly, you cannot escape Fw and the potential of being destroyed/ targeted everywhere. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
1554
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 12:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ban bad players from FW!?
They're the only reason I play FW. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2177
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 12:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Ban bad players from FW!?
They're the only reason I play FW.
Really? You don't even care about you faction? |
Minako Nakajima
Vortex State Empire
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 12:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
Hmm... maybe a player just having a bad day...
happens to me sometimes... but i don't get butthurt though... it's just a game... lol
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
Kleenex Inc.
243
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 12:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
Can confirm something needs to be done, iv played fw for minmatar and gallente since its introduction to dust and this is a problem, most battles are won before they even start, just look at the types on the scoreboard. |
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
Kleenex Inc.
243
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Posted - 2013.09.21 12:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
Maybe make it so fw is unlocked after 8mil sp, im pretty sure no faction would allow inadequate soldiers except maybe amarr as their blessed bull **** is all that matters  |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2177
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 12:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Maybe make it so fw is unlocked after 8mil sp, im pretty sure no faction would allow inadequate soldiers except maybe amarr as their blessed bull **** is all that matters
I don't think SP is the modifier that blocks or determines involvement. Perhaps a Militia System that forces players to sign on to one faction with an 8-24 hour resignations timer to discourage faction hopping, admittedly if player in FW had to lay down deposits before and match to risk their ISK it would also discourage newer player from joining without the necessary ISK and SP.
Perhaps there are also negative and benefits associated with signing on to one specific faction. |
Wallaby1
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 13:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
getting annoyed with caldari noobs so i went gallente and tried to sabotage them ,spent the match stealing teams tanks and dropships then crashing them , hijacked a dropship then flew 5 gallente scum into red line lololol...........caldari still lost "facepalm"!!! |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
Kleenex Inc.
243
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 13:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
Wallaby1 wrote:getting annoyed with caldari noobs so i went gallente and tried to sabotage them ,spent the match stealing teams tanks and dropships then crashing them , hijacked a dropship then flew 5 gallente scum into red line lololol...........caldari still lost "facepalm"!!!
So southern legion fights for caldari? |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1534
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 13:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You don't think players should have to pay for losing?
So you think the game should be no risk, all reward. Right.... The risk is there in the weapons, modules, equipment, dropsuits, and vehicles you bring to the battle. When you die, you lose ISK. If a bad player dies 10 times in a match, in an all standard Suit, he probably lost ISK in the match. The losing team does not receive as large of a payout on top of that. If I get stuck on a ****** team, why should I pay because my team sucks? I would already be losing ISK trying to carry a whole team to Victory. It isn't easy fighting 1 vs 16, which is what it feels like sometimes. I was in a match earlier, the enemy had an HAV. I died 5 times trying to take it out with my FG. I was the only guy on my whole team trying to get rid of this HAV. Tanker went 23/0 I went 5/6. I spent 3/4 of the match trying to take out the tank. I had absolutely no help. Not even when infantry was trying to support the tank. (thats where I got my kills *rubs SMG* My team did win, but might have gotten cloned by one HAV, had I not been there to keep him pushed back.
If a person going 0/17 was actually losing substantial amounts of isk, he wouldn't continue going 0/17.
Clearly, the punishment isn't enough.
Minako Nakajima wrote:Hmm... maybe a player just having a bad day...
happens to me sometimes... but i don't get butthurt though... it's just a game... lol
No.
When you are going 0/17 you are not having a bad day. You are giving other people a bad day. On purpose.
Anyone who is actually that bad can probably be lumped into the same category as people who still call their PS3 "The Nintendo". |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
96
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Posted - 2013.09.21 13:53:00 -
[56] - Quote
Big Babies
nuff said
I had no idea FW was forealz that serious. What did I miss?? Do you get prizes or something, money? I don't get it. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1662
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 13:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Big Babies
nuff said
I had no idea FW was forealz that serious. What did I miss?? Do you get prizes or something, money? I don't get it.
effect EVE side ownership. and stuff so yea has an effect for EVE pilots. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1535
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 13:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Big Babies
nuff said
I had no idea FW was forealz that serious. What did I miss?? Do you get prizes or something, money? I don't get it.
I suppose you are the type of individual who would like for it to continue giving nothing and being generally pointless, then?
The idea is to fix it, but if you would prefer it stayed pointless then by all means... |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
96
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Posted - 2013.09.21 13:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Big Babies
nuff said
I had no idea FW was forealz that serious. What did I miss?? Do you get prizes or something, money? I don't get it. effect EVE side ownership. and stuff so yea has an effect for EVE pilots.
Oh, that sounds cool I guess. Don't play EVE anymore. I just do random whatever faction, guess I'll have to roll a tank more often. My weak suits drop like paper. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1391
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 14:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
If you are still in the academy battles isn't FW the only other type to show up? |
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