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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1920
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Posted - 2013.09.20 05:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now if you have an active scanner, I know you do it, we ALL do it. When we scan we do a nice little 360 twirl and totally negate the con. The con? The con.
Passive Scan vs. Active Scan (as it probably was intended)
Passive: +Passive +360 degrees -Short Radius -For one's self only
Active: +Pretty good precisions +Squad Sharing +Large Radius -Small Degree Scanning -Active -High CPU/PG draw
Now, the Active scanner is good for a lot of people with relatively high precisions. They'd detect things better with an Active scanner and at greater distances, for the benefit of themselves and squad. However, take away one of the cons of the active scanner, Small Degree Scanning, you have 360 scan, so it kind of becomes imbalanced in favor of Active....
My question to CCP is, was the 360 twirl intended? I mean, there is a variant of Scanner (Focal or Flux....it starts with an F) that has a smaller angle of scanning so how could the 360 twirl be intended? |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
72
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Posted - 2013.09.20 05:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
IMO it's almost certainly an unintended "feature", AKA a bug that made it through QA. I bet they're not even sure quite how to remove/fix it at this point. And yes, you're thinking of the flux scanner. 30 degree scan area, 150M range. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1313
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Posted - 2013.09.20 06:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maybe make scanning instant and compensate by lowering the cooldown of the scan.
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1006
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Posted - 2013.09.20 06:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
The way I see it is you have to give up an equipment slott for the acctive scanner and tgat puts you at a disadvantage. I personally dont mind everyone ballerinaing every where . If someone has the smarts to scan everywhare then let them . |
Piraten Hovnoret
No Tax Scrubs
84
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Posted - 2013.09.20 06:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Proto scanners rocks |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces
483
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Posted - 2013.09.20 07:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:The way I see it is you have to give up an equipment slott for the acctive scanner and tgat puts you at a disadvantage. I personally dont mind everyone ballerinaing every where . If someone has the smarts to scan everywhare then let them .
Eh, at this point it is more like common sense.
One could simply give a sharp drop to tracking speed while scanning. This would make it impossible to do a full 360 and will force players to focus more on the exact area they wish to scan.
Just a thought.
`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST. |
Omareth Nasadra
QcGOLD
93
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Posted - 2013.09.20 08:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
i'd rather have the ability to switch back to weapon faster and only have the 30 or 60 degree scan than have the ability to sweep 360 and be stuck with that crap in my hands while a redberry is closing on me |
Foo Fighting
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
9
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's not possible to do a 360 with most scanners (certainly with DS3). Each scanner has it's own stats for scan duration and it's this plus turn speed that dictates the possible angle. Only the proximity scanner will allow 360 scans at the cost of distance and results duration. It's not an unintended consequence it's a feature of scanning. |
Omareth Nasadra
QcGOLD
94
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Foo Fighting wrote:It's not possible to do a 360 with most scanners (certainly with DS3). Each scanner has it's own stats for scan duration and it's this plus turn speed that dictates the possible angle. Only the proximity scanner will allow 360 scans at the cost of distance and results duration. It's not an unintended consequence it's a feature of scanning. well i can do 360 with my quantum and i'm a DS3 user, although it seems easier with a mouse, dunno about the distance and result duration, i'll have to test it i guess |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
204
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Posted - 2013.09.20 11:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
You can do the 360 sweep but I'm not sure if you actually scan everything in your twirl. From what I've seen I don't think it does, or at least some enemies don't stay illuminated for the entire duration if you twirl too fast. Haven't confirmed this extensively though. |
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2100 Angels
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
268
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Posted - 2013.09.20 12:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:IMO it's almost certainly an unintended "feature", AKA a bug that made it through QA. I bet they're not even sure quite how to remove/fix it at this point. And yes, you're thinking of the flux scanner. 30 degree scan area, 150M range.
One fix that comes to mind would be that for the scan to be effective and yield results, there could only be a movement of +/- 5-10 degrees of movement (to allow for variation; it's probably not reasonable to expect someone to hold it exactly still in one position). Any more than this and it would return an error something along the lines of "Ineffective scan. Scan precision too low.", indicating that the scanner didn't spend enough time in any one location to yield an effective result. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
266
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Posted - 2013.09.20 12:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
One of the CCP mentioned that they were displeased with the spinning tactic. My guess is that they went with the easiest implementation and didn't realize the consequences.
IMO, the best possible solution is to tie the range scanned to the duration of scan. For example, if you had a 200m scanner with a 10 second scan, at 5 seconds into the scan you would be revealing enemy locations at the 100m range. This would mean those who spin while using the scanner, their scan would cover a spiral shape, kinda like this. This would also make scan time actually a negative instead of a positive. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
259
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Posted - 2013.09.20 13:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
I am more in favor of having to stay still to complete the scan because otherwise different scanner degrees are pointless when all scanners have a 360 range, making the flux or quantum the only two usable ones. I also like this because it would make scanners more niche again and with wps coming soon it would prevent the abuse and nerf that repping tools got.
It would also be nice to not have to treat my active scanner like my passive scanner
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1380
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Posted - 2013.09.20 13:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
When I was doing the flashlight twirl the last few days I noticed my targets weren't fully lit unless I was pretty much still. They would light up but wouldn't keep the pulsing painted target effect unless I did a full scan on them. This is using the advanced quantum scanner.
Maybe my timing was just off but I've been scanning regularly since since about two weeks before 1.4. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1749
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Posted - 2013.09.20 13:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
This may become less of an issue depending on how scanner tagging interacts with WP earnings in the new patch. Not that the sweep shouldn't be removed if it's not an "as intended" feature, but if the WP earnings mechanic creates a need not to sweep I think we'll see quite a bit less of it, of course we don't know if the WP mechanic will do that at this point, so now it's a waiting game
0.02 ISK Cross
PS ~ I don't know what this would look like code side but if there were a way t o increase "interference" i.e. lower effective scan precision on the scanner, the wider the sweep angle - within certain tolerances since on field movement is to be expected - that would make a lot of sense intuitively and would address this problem I believe. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
76
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Posted - 2013.09.20 13:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Foo Fighting wrote:It's not possible to do a 360 with most scanners (certainly with DS3). Each scanner has it's own stats for scan duration and it's this plus turn speed that dictates the possible angle. Only the proximity scanner will allow 360 scans at the cost of distance and results duration. It's not an unintended consequence it's a feature of scanning.
Incorrect, dear god, what sensitivity do you play on?? I can easily turn 360, more like 540 degrees during a quantum or basic active scan.
@Reav: I've noticed the same thing, it seems to vary match by match. Some matches twirling always works, some matches I can't get it to work at all. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1930
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Posted - 2013.09.20 16:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:One of the CCP mentioned that they were displeased with the spinning tactic. My guess is that they went with the easiest implementation and didn't realize the consequences. IMO, the best possible solution is to tie the range scanned to the duration of scan. For example, if you had a 200m scanner with a 10 second scan, at 5 seconds into the scan you would be revealing enemy locations at the 100m range. This would mean those who spin while using the scanner, their scan would cover a spiral shape, kinda like this. This would also make scan time actually a negative instead of a positive. That would be interesting if time = distance scanned. Include a visual of where the scan sweep is on your minimap.... Regardless, this little twirl needs to be stopped in effect. Especially before War Points. It would then become the absolute farming tool. [ 360 twirl guarantees that any local enemies are harvested ] |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1930
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Posted - 2013.09.20 16:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:The way I see it is you have to give up an equipment slott for the acctive scanner and tgat puts you at a disadvantage. I personally dont mind everyone ballerinaing every where . If someone has the smarts to scan everywhare then let them . Yeah man, totally. I feel the same way about drop uplinks. I'm being put at a disadvantage because they are equipment. |
Tal-Rakken
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
89
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Posted - 2013.09.20 16:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Easiest fix would be that it takes time to actually light the person up. I dislike the 360 deg spins but I don't see a problem with doing a quick 180dg sweep. |
Yan Darn
DUST University Ivy League
160
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Posted - 2013.09.20 17:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:One of the CCP mentioned that they were displeased with the spinning tactic. My guess is that they went with the easiest implementation and didn't realize the consequences. IMO, the best possible solution is to tie the range scanned to the duration of scan. For example, if you had a 200m scanner with a 10 second scan, at 5 seconds into the scan you would be revealing enemy locations at the 100m range. This would mean those who spin while using the scanner, their scan would cover a spiral shape, kinda like this. This would also make scan time actually a negative instead of a positive.
Best idea I've heard anyway.
I'll miss being a ballerina, but it does need to go ideally. |
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces
486
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Posted - 2013.09.20 18:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yet another topic where CCP and the Community see eye to eye... I like these.
`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
272
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Posted - 2013.09.20 18:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:Yet another topic where CCP and the Community see eye to eye... I like these. Now if we could just get a blue tag giving us cookies and telling us they are implementing a fix for 1.6
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Piraten Hovnoret
No Tax Scrubs
90
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Posted - 2013.09.20 19:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Okey I use al the scanners and there is 1 or 2 that it's hard to do a 360 scann..however I don't c the problem, in my mind there is OTHER things in this game that need attention before into this.
Like the AA, lock 4 tanks/cars/DP, PVE, etc etc I can go on like forever, this matter has at least for me a low priority extremely low be honest. |
Happy Jack SD
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
5
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Posted - 2013.09.20 20:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Another idea is to have a 'lock time' where a red dot isn't scanned until - say - half a second of scanning aimed at them. Merely sweeping the scanner will not make them visible for the full time, but focusing on a smaller corridor will lock onto the dropsuits signals. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1933
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Posted - 2013.09.20 21:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:Okey I use al the scanners and there is 1 or 2 that it's hard to do a 360 scann..however I don't c the problem, in my mind there is OTHER things in this game that need attention before into this.
Like the AA, lock 4 tanks/cars/DP, PVE, etc etc I can go on like forever, this matter has at least for me a low priority extremely low be honest. Sure low priority, rank it how you like. The fact of the matter is that there are attributes tied to these scanners (the angle of scan) that are supposed to be equipment set backs but are negated by a little twirl. If CCP wanted them to scan 360 degrees they would have scanned 360 degrees. In essence, it detracts from Passive scan, and could potentially lead to WP farming if not fixed before WP is granted to Active Scanning. |
CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
301
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Posted - 2013.09.21 01:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
So what about the scanners with the longer scan duration? They must obviously be made to do swirls with? Why else you they give you a higher amount of scan time to look about?
(I mean the amount of time the scanner is actively scanning, not the red dot duration which I think is bugged anyway)
And by the way, I dislike this thread as I feel its yet another stab at scouts, indirect but that's what it feels like. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
259
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Posted - 2013.09.21 01:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:So what about the scanners with the longer scan duration? They must obviously be made to do swirls with? Why else you they give you a higher amount of scan time to look about?
(I mean the amount of time the scanner is actively scanning, not the red dot duration which I think is bugged anyway)
And by the way, I dislike this thread as I feel its yet another stab at scouts, indirect but that's what it feels like.
He is a scout, and so am I, currently the active scanner is working as a "scout-in-a-pocket" device, once it gets wps, it will be superior in every way to passive scans, which was literally one of the last few things scouts had over other suits. The active scanner also takes less investment than a scout with range and precision mods, so the idea around active scans not having a 360 cone is directly correlated to make it different with passive scans, which along with the stamina pool is the last two positive stats that put scouts over medium frames.
While scanners have been a zero issue with scouts, giving it wps will make the proto scanners useful which will give scouts hell as the investment to get below that really neuters your potential in the field as a scout.
So the idea of limiting the active scanner in comparison to passive scanners is in fact beneficial to scouts. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
274
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Posted - 2013.09.21 02:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:So what about the scanners with the longer scan duration? They must obviously be made to do swirls with? Why else you they give you a higher amount of scan time to look about?
(I mean the amount of time the scanner is actively scanning, not the red dot duration which I think is bugged anyway)
And by the way, I dislike this thread as I feel its yet another stab at scouts, indirect but that's what it feels like.
I'm pretty sure a high scan time was intended to be a negative attribute since it means you don't have access to your weapon longer and it probably was meant to take longer to get your results. Have you ever heard of an anti-virus program praised for having a high scan time?
Also, do you really think CCP intended for us to be ballerinas? |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1219
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Posted - 2013.09.21 06:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
I twirl on occasion. Pretty sure targets "blip" on radar if in range while I twirl. They only remain on radar for the "target display duration", when I paint them for the full length of scan duration.
PS: Been running scanners regularly since release. Best gadget ever for a Shotgun Scout. |
Bartimaeus of Achura
Cassardis
32
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Posted - 2013.09.21 06:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
I don't use a scanner... though I love them, when im scanned all the idiotic assault and recon suits come out of the woodwork. To come face to face with a fully equipped prototype heavy. |
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