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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1855
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 01:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
First off I would like to thank Reav Hannari for being as inquisitive as I on this subject and helping me test this illusive subject out.
The Preliminary Information:
Your Minimap is composed of 3 rings. 1st Ring = 20 meters 2nd Ring = 65 meters 3rd Ring = 100 meters Viewing Angle 60 Degrees (30 Degrees on either side of the median) Reav's Profile and Precision are both higher than Bojo's (Logi vs Scout)
The Passive Scanning
The Passive Scanning occurs inside whatever your scan radius is. My radius for the test was 18.2 meters. Reav walked all around me, where I was looking and where I was not. Regardless of where I was looking, he always appeared on my minimap at a range of 17 meters. I never appeared on his radar because I had a lower profile than his precision, as long as he could not see me on his screen or as long as I didn't touch him.
The LOS Scanning
Anything that you can see will appear on your radar within 80 meters. So regardless of my lower profile, I popped up on Reav's radar as long as he saw me within 80 meters. However if I dropped behind something I disappear.
Blip Brightness Effect
Passive: As something enters your passive scan radius (that is above your precision) and approaches you, the blip on your radar will get brighter as the distance closes.
LOS: The same as passive but with an interesting twist. As they leave your LOS they get dimmer. So when I was aiming at Reav and he began to walk sideways, his blip got dimmer the farther from my cross hairs he got.
The Sum Up
- LOS defeats Profile
- Passive Scan will pick up anything around you with a higher profile than your precision
- LOS Scan drops off at 80 meters
- Blip Brightness correlates to distance, the brighter the closer.
I look forward to doing more dynamic tests on this subject, such as closing precision and profile gaps. If you feel interested in helping me (and reav if he wishes) to test more dynamic fittings to solidify this information please feel free to contact me. In the meantime please take this information and use it! We didn't test this for nothing!
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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1856
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 01:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Updated to include some information that Reav remembered that I forgot to include: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1314113#post1314113
CCP Sticky! |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
431
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Posted - 2013.09.19 01:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think i'm confused. are we posting useful information on the forums now?
ban him. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
766
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bump. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3547
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
DATA! WOOHOO! \O/ |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1862
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
The main issue I see is the extreme range of LOS compared to that of passive range. This is why we have been lead to believe that passive scanning is broken. People are appearing on your radar for 80 meters in your forward LOS, but passive is only 10 for those without skills.
Also, when you pick someone up at 10 meters passively, they can easily attack you with an SMG. It also is sort of messed that Profile has no effect on LOS detection. |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
101
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Posted - 2013.09.19 03:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Okay so slightly confused about what area the passive scan actually covers. Is it the viewing angle you describe, or is it actually the full radius around you? |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1862
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 03:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:Okay so slightly confused about what area the passive scan actually covers. Is it the viewing angle you describe, or is it actually the full radius around you? 360 degrees. LOS is the front 60 degrees. |
Beck Weathers
High-Damage
81
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Posted - 2013.09.19 03:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think people rely on their scanners to much, I can spot people moving around in the hills from way far out and rarely get snuck up on because i actualy pay atention to my suroundings. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab The Superpowers
30
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Posted - 2013.09.19 03:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
I've actually wondered about this and was too lazy to actually test it myself. You have done us all a great service here, sirs. Thanks |
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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1862
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 03:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sorry folks I forgot to include Radar Compression. It's updated now. It's a very tiny attribute but one nonetheless. |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
101
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Posted - 2013.09.19 03:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Llast 326 wrote:Okay so slightly confused about what area the passive scan actually covers. Is it the viewing angle you describe, or is it actually the full radius around you? 360 degrees. LOS is the front 60 degrees. Excellent, thank you
Beck Weathers wrote: I think people rely on their scanners to much, I can spot people moving around in the hills from way far out and rarely get snuck up on because i actualy pay atention to my suroundings. To me passive scanners are just another tool for situational awareness, like anything to much reliance on one thing results in a Nova Knife in the spine |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4233
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 03:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thanks for the info, Bojo. But I have a question.
Have you tested to see how much material (walls, crates, CRUs, barricades, etc.) the passive scan can see through before losing its effectiveness to see an enemy merc on the other side (both with and without LOS)?
I ask this because I have an alt training up to go into complex range amplifiers in the Gallente Scout dropsuit and on several occassions I have been able to see through thick walls on where the enemy is at without even looking at them directly. But it wouuld be nice if I had a second person confirm it for me. |
Seed Dren
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 03:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
This is all very interesting but kind of hard to visualize in my head. But really good work. |
Tectonic Fusion
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
233
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Posted - 2013.09.19 03:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Beck Weathers wrote:I think people rely on their scanners to much, I can spot people moving around in the hills from way far out and rarely get snuck up on because i actualy pay atention to my suroundings. Same. If I'm not in combat, I look on my radar and move using my side vision. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3029
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:First off I would like to thank Reav Hannari for being as inquisitive as I on this subject and helping me test this illusive subject out. The Preliminary Information:
Your Minimap is composed of 3 rings. 1st Ring = 20 meters 2nd Ring = 65 meters 3rd Ring = 100 meters Viewing Angle 60 Degrees (30 Degrees on either side of the median) Reav's Profile and Precision are both higher than Bojo's (Logi vs Scout) The Passive Scanning The Passive Scanning occurs inside whatever your scan radius is. My radius for the test was 18.2 meters. Reav walked all around me, where I was looking and where I was not. Regardless of where I was looking, he always appeared on my minimap at a range of 17 meters. I never appeared on his radar because I had a lower profile than his precision, as long as he could not see me on his screen or as long as I didn't touch him. Nothing you do (actions) effects passive scanning; shooting a weapon or sprinting does not raise your profile. The LOS Scanning
Anything that you can see will appear on your radar within 80 meters. So regardless of my lower profile, I popped up on Reav's radar as long as he saw me within 80 meters. However if I dropped behind something I disappear. Blip Brightness Effect Passive: As something enters your passive scan radius (that is above your precision) and approaches you, the blip on your radar will get brighter as the distance closes. LOS: The same as passive but with an interesting twist. As they leave your LOS they get dimmer. So when I was aiming at Reav and he began to walk sideways, his blip got dimmer the farther from my cross hairs he got. Aiming at a target instantly makes the Blip at it's brightest intensity. The Radar Compression Effect When you initiate a sprint, your radar will lurch objects in it forward (as you are moving), but they will appear to be closer then they are. Once you stop, you will see the blips revert slightly outward, returning to their normal and actual positions. The opposite effect (expansion) occurs when the object is behind you. The Sum Up
- LOS defeats Profile
- Passive Scan will pick up anything around you with a higher profile than your precision
- LOS Scan drops off at 80 meters
- Blip Brightness correlates to distance, the brighter the closer.
I look forward to doing more dynamic tests on this subject, such as closing precision and profile gaps. If you feel interested in helping me (and reav if he wishes) to test more dynamic fittings to solidify this information please feel free to contact me. In the meantime please take this information and use it! We didn't test this for nothing!
Glad to see someone else is doing extensive testing on the scan system.
Good on you Bojo. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1872
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Thanks for the info, Bojo. But I have a question.
Have you tested to see how much material (walls, crates, CRUs, barricades, etc.) the passive scan can see through before losing its effectiveness to see an enemy merc on the other side (both with and without LOS)?
I ask this because I have an alt training up to go into complex range amplifiers in the Gallente Scout dropsuit and on several occassions I have been able to see through thick walls on where the enemy is at without even looking at them directly. But it wouuld be nice if I had a second person confirm it for me.
Walls, crates, etc. nothing blocks passive scan. I stood behind an object and had Reav move about. When we checked the fall off distance it was still 17 meters. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
926
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thanks Bojo, much appreciated.
From what Reav is saying you two had some quality time out there ;) |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1874
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Seed Dren wrote:This is all very interesting but kind of hard to visualize in my head. But really good work.
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1eQ9bdp5RqGQq5Eg-u1RtbGXNEAaNIlsjctVkTwZjqaM/edit?usp=sharing Enjoy this diagram. Anything will show up in the Pie piece. Things with a higher profile than your scan precision will show up anywhere in the shaded circle. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1344
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Beck Weathers wrote:I think people rely on their scanners to much, I can spot people moving around in the hills from way far out and rarely get snuck up on because i actualy pay atention to my suroundings. Same. If I'm not in combat, I look on my radar and move using my side vision.
One of the nice features of the logi suit is not appearing on all other medium frames passive radar. I wondered why assaults ran past me all the time. I now run a heavily dampened suit to avoid active scanners as well. People that rely on radar won't be seeing me. Now, if I can get a suit that isn't bright yellow. |
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1344
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
I also got to see the aim assist adhesion affect during our tests but Bojo kept jumping and it would lose track of him. It's not very sticky which is a good thing. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1880
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 05:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:I also got to see the aim assist adhesion affect during our tests but Bojo kept jumping and it would lose track of him. It's not very sticky which is a good thing. And the thread has been cursed |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4236
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 05:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I also got to see the aim assist adhesion affect during our tests but Bojo kept jumping and it would lose track of him. It's not very sticky which is a good thing. And the thread has been cursed
/Sprinkling holy water
And the power of Christ compels you! |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1344
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 05:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I also got to see the aim assist adhesion affect during our tests but Bojo kept jumping and it would lose track of him. It's not very sticky which is a good thing. And the thread has been cursed /Sprinkling holy water And the power of Christ compels you!
I have sinned. Forgive me.
Remembered one test: active scanners do not make you appear on the enemy TACNET. I think this was intended at one point. Not sure if it was ever in game. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1880
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 05:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:
I have sinned. Forgive me.
Remembered one test: active scanners do not make you appear on the enemy TACNET. I think this was intended at one point. Not sure if it was ever in game.
Yeah but maybe I should have changed suits to test that. The scanner I was using had a higher precision than my profile so.... |
Haerr
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
39
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Posted - 2013.09.19 09:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hey Bojo I'm intrested in helping out with scanning and such, I've sent you an in-game mail with a bit of information.
I also created the channel '#bloody_scanning' so that anyone intrested in helping out can easily get in contact.
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voidfaction
Void of Faction
79
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 12:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Great job on the testing and post to the both of you. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
565
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 12:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thanks for the info |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
199
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 12:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Great info. Would like to see an addendum with active scanning as well :) |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1893
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 17:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Great info. Would like to see an addendum with active scanning as well :) Active Scanning is pretty straightforward but I think I will test what creates margin of errors (it's supposed to be people with lower profile so I hear but I want to be sure that there aren't any wildcards. |
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