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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
930
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the prevalence of Active Scanners, and the plans to give them WP in the next update or two (a very GOOD thing, mind), we need an active counter to the active scanner. Foil Equipment with Equipment, I say!
A deploy-able like Nanohives or Uplinks, the ECM Scrambler will cause nearby friendlies to be much harder to scan down, but not impossible. There are certain Active Scanners that have very high scanning power, they could pierce through the interference. There could be a short range Scrambler that has immense power that only the best Active Scanner could pierce in Prototype tier as well, to encourage ranking up. Better range at higher metalevels, better scrambling ability etc.
What do you all think? We need something like this to help preserve the roles of Ambushing Heavies and other defenders, as well as giving another toy for Logi's to use to help the team. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
789
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:With the prevalence of Active Scanners, and the plans to give them WP in the next update or two (a very GOOD thing, mind), we need an active counter to the active scanner. Foil Equipment with Equipment, I say!
A deploy-able like Nanohives or Uplinks, the ECM Scrambler will cause nearby friendlies to be much harder to scan down, but not impossible. There are certain Active Scanners that have very high scanning power, they could pierce through the interference. There could be a short range Scrambler that has immense power that only the best Active Scanner could pierce in Prototype tier as well, to encourage ranking up. Better range at higher metalevels, better scrambling ability etc.
What do you all think? We need something like this to help preserve the roles of Ambushing Heavies and other defenders, as well as giving another toy for Logi's to use to help the team. We need this as of 1.4.
CCP, I know you're reading this.
Can haz scan scrambler? |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1730
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Posted - 2013.09.17 19:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
I want an uplink jammer |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
930
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Posted - 2013.09.17 20:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:I want an uplink jammer
Should it be a separate thing, or should it be integrated into the ECM Scrambler idea? |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1730
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 20:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hmm, I'm thinking about it being the same module but with one version only being extremely detailed in one area while lacking in the other and one being decent for both areas but not excelling like the specialized modules. Then create different versions from that. |
N7 JETI
Hungarian Defense Force
12
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Posted - 2013.09.17 20:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
In GR:Future Soldier there is a deployable equipment called Sensor Jammer,its prevents scanning in a fairly big area.
Something like that could be work in Dust too. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
189
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Posted - 2013.09.17 21:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
the mods work good enough for me. |
Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
86
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Posted - 2013.09.17 21:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
A short range portable scanning rig would be good too - you could just deploy it around a point and get scan hits when somebody tires to sneak in to hack it. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
931
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 21:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:the mods work good enough for me.
The passive modules are fine as-is, but any class besides Scout can't really afford to waste low slots on Profile Dampeners. Also, they have such larger profiles that it is that much easier to scan them. Adding an equipment item that can defend an area from scan attempts will prevent these defenders from being completely outclassed via placement, as well as prevent abuse due to the stationary nature of deploy-able equipment. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3320
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Posted - 2013.09.17 21:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Seems very specific. What about a general ECM thing which reduces equipment efficacy in its range? |
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
931
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 21:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Seems very specific. What about a general ECM thing which reduces equipment efficacy in its range?
If it's too multipurpose, people will just slap them down on-the-go. You need to make things but so specific to encourage roles. |
DeadlyAztec11
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
2143
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 22:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Black Ops 1 had an equipment piece, the Jammer. The Jammer disabled all equipment within its radius. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
517
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Posted - 2013.09.17 23:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Make it an active module that takes up an equipment slot, acts like scanner, recharges after a period yoy get different variations but yeah cool!! |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4204
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Posted - 2013.09.17 23:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sounds plausible but I would recommend giving it a lifespan so that people won't be abusing them and next thing you know we end up with 20+ such jammers littering the outposts and then be able to hide whole armies and then we get more QQ like you see now. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
932
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 23:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Make it an active module that takes up an equipment slot, acts like scanner, recharges after a period yoy get different variations but yeah cool!!
I'm not too sure about making it mobile equipment like the Scanner or Repair Tool, as it might eclipse the passive Dampeners due to taking far less to run. Plus, if we make it mobile, entire groups would be able to remain both radar-invisible and highly mobile, in stark opposition to the Scout role of highly mobile loners. This would invalidate the Sneaky Scout playstyle, because why bring a Scout when it can be a Heavy and a Caldari logi? |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
932
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 23:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Sounds plausible but I would recommend giving it a lifespan so that people won't be abusing them and next thing you know we end up with 20+ such jammers littering the outposts and then be able to hide whole armies and then we get more QQ like you see now.
I'm hoping CCP fixes the equipment 'problem' before they create these. Honestly all they need to do is make it so that the suit that deployed a piece of equipment must itself be deployed. The Equipment Slot taken up is the power and processing used to run the equipment remotely, not just the space on your person, so if the suit disappears so should the deployed tech. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
517
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 23:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Make it an active module that takes up an equipment slot, acts like scanner, recharges after a period yoy get different variations but yeah cool!! I'm not too sure about making it mobile equipment like the Scanner or Repair Tool, as it might eclipse the passive Dampeners due to taking far less to run. Plus, if we make it mobile, entire groups would be able to remain both radar-invisible and highly mobile, in stark opposition to the Scout role of highly mobile loners. This would invalidate the Sneaky Scout playstyle, because why bring a Scout when it can be a Heavy and a Caldari logi?
Because you would have a timer, so you cant be invisible constantly The radius on most would not fit a squad And it helps specilise the EWAR role!! |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
933
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 23:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Make it an active module that takes up an equipment slot, acts like scanner, recharges after a period yoy get different variations but yeah cool!! I'm not too sure about making it mobile equipment like the Scanner or Repair Tool, as it might eclipse the passive Dampeners due to taking far less to run. Plus, if we make it mobile, entire groups would be able to remain both radar-invisible and highly mobile, in stark opposition to the Scout role of highly mobile loners. This would invalidate the Sneaky Scout playstyle, because why bring a Scout when it can be a Heavy and a Caldari logi? Because you would have a timer, so you cant be invisible constantly The radius on most would not fit a squad And it helps specilise the EWAR role!!
The stationary one is specialized in that it is meant for defensive play, whereas Active Scanners are meant to be used offensively. Furthermore, many Active Scanners can be up indefinitely, as the cooldown is shorter than the ping period. If this mobile scrambler copied these attributes, it would be overpowered. If it didn't copy these attributes, it would be useless as the Scanner would be easily able to ping you. If I remember correctly, the Quantum Scanner has somewhere around a 6-9 second cooldown as opposed to a 13-16 second effect length, making it capable of constant scanning. The mobile scrambler would have to have constant effect to prevent being scanned, but doing so would invalidate Scouts and Passive Dampeners while consolidating yet more power in the hands of the Logistics Suit. I am a Logistics player, but I don't want every role to be mine alone. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1311
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Posted - 2013.09.17 23:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
The active scanner is indeed a must-have now, and after getting extremely annoyed at the "You have been scanned" every 2 seconds which you never know if the enemy you are around is in the squad who performed the scan, I decided to invest a little in dampeners.
2 enhanced dampeners on my calogi and I am now invisible to all but the one proto scanner that goes down to 15dB, all the rest, including the ever popular 25 second scanner, cannot detect me. And I LOVE seeing the "Scan attempt prevented" (or whatever it says, I can't remember ATM).
An anti-scan hive would be interesting, but I think it might undermine the sacrifice of using dampeners and the advantage of using an active-scanner. Cause at least in ambush, the blob of players generally are all in one spot. it's pretty much blob vs blob for entire rounds. So an anti-scanner hive would be way too useful in that regard.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
6000
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Posted - 2013.09.17 23:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
+1 I support this |
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
940
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Posted - 2013.09.17 23:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:The active scanner is indeed a must-have now, and after getting extremely annoyed at the "You have been scanned" every 2 seconds which you never know if the enemy you are around is in the squad who performed the scan, I decided to invest a little in dampeners.
2 enhanced dampeners on my calogi and I am now invisible to all but the one proto scanner that goes down to 15dB, all the rest, including the ever popular 25 second scanner, cannot detect me. And I LOVE seeing the "Scan attempt prevented" (or whatever it says, I can't remember ATM).
An anti-scan hive would be interesting, but I think it might undermine the sacrifice of using dampeners and the advantage of using an active-scanner. Cause at least in ambush, the blob of players generally are all in one spot. it's pretty much blob vs blob for entire rounds. So an anti-scanner hive would be way too useful in that regard.
True on Ambush, but if I may be so bold, Ambush isn't real DUST. It's just a deathmatch. We cannot truly attempt to balance the game around it.
As for the Dampeners, I'm trying to preserve the role of Dampeners as a MOBILE alternative to the scrambler, as the scrambler is stuck in one position, whereas a player with Dampeners is allowed to have free range with the sacrifice of a Low Slot or two. |
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
2034
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Posted - 2013.09.18 19:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Moved to Feedback/Requests CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
@CCP_Logibro |
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
941
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 21:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Moved to Feedback/Requests
Any feedback on my feedback? |
Abe Foster
BlackWater Liquidations
11
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Posted - 2013.09.19 00:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
this would be cool for snipers, if there was a bubble to provide invisibility from scanners. +1 |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
951
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Posted - 2013.09.19 06:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Abe Foster wrote:this would be cool for snipers, if there was a bubble to provide invisibility from scanners. +1 yes, but you would have to sacrifice your Nanohives. See, balance :D |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2013.09.19 06:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
+1 for good idea, and I run scanners all the time. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
956
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 16:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:+1 for good idea, and I run scanners all the time. This is what AV players must feel like when a tanker says Forge Guns are fine :D |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
202
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Posted - 2013.09.19 17:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
I don't like the idea of having a single piece of equipment that can passively make another class of equipment useless within a certain radius. Do we have droppables that can make nanite injectors or repair tools not work? Why should a scanner be rendered useless or debilitated in scanning the majority of the enemy team just because one person on the other side skilled into a single piece of equipment?
This also applies to ECM interference with DUs and nanohives: the only thing that should remove them from play is physical destruction. Equipment that nullifies them passively only by being dropped is too OP. Think of it this way - if you see a tank on the field, you counter it with AV, forges, swarms, other tanks, whatever. You need to actively try to get rid of it to prevent it from aiding the enemy, just like you need to actively destroy nanohives/uplinks. There is no option to emit an EMP that disables said tank from operating.
To gain the ability to evade scanning, you need to skill into a module and sacrifice slots to fit them. It would be OP to lend this ability to everyone, at no cost to them.
The closest thing that might mimic this is triage nanohives, as they take the place of armor repair modules, but even those are very limited - they only heal a given amount of HP per cycle and eventually pop, they are contained within a specific, small radius, and emit a large, visible signature both on the minimap and in the game environment. If these scramblers had similar attributes, they'd most likely be useless.
So no, scrambler devices are not necessary. If you want to evade scans, skill into profile dampeners or use scout suits. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
957
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Posted - 2013.09.19 21:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:I don't like the idea of having a single piece of equipment that can passively make another class of equipment useless within a certain radius. Do we have droppables that can make nanite injectors or repair tools not work? Why should a scanner be rendered useless or debilitated in scanning the majority of the enemy team just because one person on the other side skilled into a single piece of equipment?
This also applies to ECM interference with DUs and nanohives: the only thing that should remove them from play is physical destruction. Equipment that nullifies them passively only by being dropped is too OP. Think of it this way - if you see a tank on the field, you counter it with AV, forges, swarms, other tanks, whatever. You need to actively try to get rid of it to prevent it from aiding the enemy, just like you need to actively destroy nanohives/uplinks. There is no option to emit an EMP that disables said tank from operating.
To gain the ability to evade scanning, you need to skill into a module and sacrifice slots to fit them. It would be OP to lend this ability to everyone, at no cost to them.
The closest thing that might mimic this is triage nanohives, as they take the place of armor repair modules, but even those are very limited - they only heal a given amount of HP per cycle and eventually pop, they are contained within a specific, small radius, and emit a large, visible signature both on the minimap and in the game environment. If these scramblers had similar attributes, they'd most likely be useless.
So no, scrambler devices are not necessary. If you want to evade scans, skill into profile dampeners or use scout suits.
You killed your own point. The Scrambler IS ACTIVE. You have to use up an equip slot to nullify someone else's equipment in a short area, fair as fair can be. Otherwise, there is no point to heavies waiting in ambush or impromptu assault suit defenses. One player just has to pull out a piece of equipment to ping all their locations for his whole squad, so why can't another player pull out a piece of equipment to counter that? Furthermore, the Dampeners are PASSIVE, and only good for Scouts, Snipers, and Assaults that want an extra bit of sneak. Heavies and Logis need to keep their low slots open, Logis for versatility modules and self reppers, and Heavies for Tanking so they can be heavy.
Furthermore, take this particular line...
Sana Rayaa wrote:To gain the ability to evade scanning, you need to skill into a module and sacrifice slots to fit them. It would be OP to lend this ability to everyone, at no cost to them.
...and shove it up your active scanner's arse. It does the EXACT SAME THING, except with the Passive Scanner modules. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
957
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Posted - 2013.09.19 23:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Altered OP to add examples. |
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