Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
5926
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 06:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
I STRONGLY support this. There is no fun to be gained from being forced to stick with skills they no longer want. Its pointless commitment for the sake of being "hardcore" at the cost of actual fun (the reason why people play games to begin with). Most players never really get to make an informed decision on what to skill into, especially because of lack of militia tier means you can't test weapons without skilling into them; there is NO MEANING in decisions made without proper information. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6228
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 11:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:SO MUCH QQ. Someone doesn't read
|
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
897
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 12:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I STRONGLY support this. There is no fun to be gained from being forced to stick with skills they no longer want. Its pointless commitment for the sake of being "hardcore" at the cost of actual fun (the reason why people play games to begin with). Most players never really get to make an informed decision on what to skill into, especially because of lack of militia tier means you can't test weapons without skilling into them; there is NO MEANING in decisions made without proper information. Interesting - I don't ofter disagree with you but on this point i do.
The meaning is created the moment a player realizes they have entered a world where decisions have indelible consequences. Where if you don't know you better read forums and talk to people before committing significant resources. Maybe follow a guy in-game who's using the weapon/vehicle you're interested in.
Where a player who consistently makes good decisions ends up in an advantaged position to a player who consistently makes bad decisions. I guess what it does is make the skill tree an active part of the pvp game, as opposed to a necessary but also meaningless mechanic.
With regards to testing weapons and playstyles, it takes relatively few skillpoints to skill into a weapon and it's support skills to the point where a player can identify whether they are going to like a particular playstyle, maybe 120k skillpoints for most of the handheld weapons, and much less if all they're looking for is a quick test-drive.
Personally, i direct criticism at CCP on two fronts. the lack of militia variants for ALL weapons, and the failure to give players complete specifications for all weapons. Both points are especially damning because they directly, and negatively, affect the new player experience. Both deserve attention sooner rather than later.
|
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4005
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 12:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:especially because of lack of militia tier This is the real problem.
Having to stick with the skills you trained is a good decision for DUST. It's at the core of how the game works.
But we need to making INFORMED decisions based on EXPERIENCE with what we're skilling into, or it negates that value of that "hardcore" decision/consequence element. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6228
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 12:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:especially because of lack of militia tier This is the real problem. Having to stick with the skills you trained is a good decision for DUST. It's at the core of how the game works. But we need to making INFORMED decisions based on EXPERIENCE with what we're skilling into, or it negates that value of that "hardcore" decision/consequence element. The problem though is that it's the "core" when there isn't much else to draw you in. At least in EVE you have TONS of other things to do as your skills train. In DUST? Tough cookies, you stick with your singular playstyle and you better damn well love it.
Basically all forcing skills to stay static and stale does is make for a much easier time wasting SP, for new and old players alike. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1311
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 12:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
I still think we should let people spend a chunk of ISK, or some AUR, to be able to reskill.
There were threads where we talked about a cool-down so it couldn't be done that often -- and it wouldn't have to be an all or nothing action. You could limit it to one end-point on the skill tree (if not too expensive) or to one branch (if it is expensive). |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5241
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 12:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:I still think we should let people spend a chunk of ISK, or some AUR, to be able to reskill.
There were threads where we talked about a cool-down so it couldn't be done that often -- and it wouldn't have to be an all or nothing action. You could limit it to one end-point on the skill tree (if not too expensive) or to one branch (if it is expensive). How about you can respec as much as you want for AUR but you have to give up 25-33% of your lifetime SP? |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1311
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 12:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Crash Monster wrote:I still think we should let people spend a chunk of ISK, or some AUR, to be able to reskill.
There were threads where we talked about a cool-down so it couldn't be done that often -- and it wouldn't have to be an all or nothing action. You could limit it to one end-point on the skill tree (if not too expensive) or to one branch (if it is expensive). How about you can respec as much as you want for AUR but you have to give up 25-33% of your lifetime SP?
I'll let CCP muck up the "pricing" but I'm okay with SP vs AUR or whatever. Make sure choices still have weight... but let people "declare bankruptcy" and start their lives again. |
Spectral Clone
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
228
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 13:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Respec with every new montly patch.
We are still in beta. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1311
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 13:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Respec with every new montly patch.
We are still in beta.
We'll always be in beta -- we won't be getting a respec every month. |
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6269
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 14:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Respec with every new montly patch.
We are still in beta. I'd prefer it if we could stay on topic, as this isn't a respec thread. If you'd like to contribute to one of those, I'm sure the search function could more than accommodate you ('you' not being directed at you, just in general) |
SlyFrenzy
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 01:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Some sp refund ideas
we get 2 refund tokens every 6 months for a cost of 25 isk each token -it can only refund one skill only no matter what level. -if you brought one token but didn't use it will be gone after a month. -if you decide to use it your passive sp gain will be halved for 2 weeks.
your passive sp gain will stop instead it will try to get the sp you put into a certain skill at the rate as your passive sp works.
-hopefully that ^ made some sense.
you get a full refund on all the skills but at a cost of 5% of your life time sp points.
-i personally think that ^ is not a good idea but oh well. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8443
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 01:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
A non-instant system would also be preferable as it still drives home the consequences of choosing poorly but not so permanently.
This also severely reduces the pay to win factor to which is already a stigma that the boosters currently suffer from as obnoxiously rich players cannot buy their way to the best fits and by the time they unsped all the no longer FOTM SP and train it into the new one that may get nerfed again thus starting the whole cycle over again. |
Athena Sentinel
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 02:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:What the skill system right now encourages you to do, if you're playing to not get stomped, is to focus on one weapon, one suit, one specialized playstyle. A lot of the vets forget this, they forget / never even experienced what it's like to claw your way up this slow, boring skill tree in the face of insurmountable odds (proto squad red line ring a bell?) So, if the noobs are playing 'right' they're saving their SP, buying only gear that matches their skills, and only spending SP when unlocking the next level. For months, and months, and months (particularly free players). There is no deviation, minus that which you can attain through gimping yourself (remember, the noobs don't have skills to fall back on, and they might even be working on core skills, making this even worse). So you've got new players, not allowed to experiment with new skills, buying the same boring gear game after game, stockpiling gear as it becomes available..playing match after match for that tiny boost in stats. No cool new looking gun, no actual change in game performance wise, save the statistical boost. At best you get a new color scheme. So all your gear is boring; static. All your skills are fairly boring (many don't even provide any boosts, and many more provide trivial boosts that are laughable at best, some of which don't even remotely match the suits or their supposed roles) So at the end of the day, you've got the vets on one hand, rolling in cash (most anyways), with oodles of gear stockpiled, and the noobs, praying to god that their skill selection is actually worth a damn; that the gear they're dreaming about actually plays exactly as expected after months of going to that point. ------------------------------------ TLDR ----------------------------------------------
There is no deviation. This is DUSTs problem. Your skills are static. The second you as a player evolve, the second YOU decide that a given playstyle no longer interests or appeals to you, too damn bad. You're forced to keep it. There needs to be a way to slowly reallocate skill points, to gradually pull them from one place and back into your SP pool. It's so damn boring, and offers no leeway for new and old players alike.
This is so true. I have played EVE for a few years and Dust now since it started. I think I am just not good at CCP's system. I don't have the ability to try a few different things to find what I like and what I am good at. You're dead on - I am stuck with my choice or gimped and even then my new choice could be wrong and I am still gimped. Months and months in too
Everything you said above is totally true. DUST's problem is EVE's problem = trying to get console FPS'er to accept MMO style of playing. It is really boring at times and I don't feel like I can explore the different styles, if I do I am in militia gear and getting rocked anyway, so the only way to try something is to spend at least a month or two training into it - Even more if you want to try something totally different (moving from a assault AR to a Heavy) for example. Because you would have to train in all shields, armor, new suit, weapon, and there would be a lot of wasted unused SP forever sitting there.
Maybe, I need to play games with a different system :( |
SlyFrenzy
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A non-instant system would also be preferable as it still drives home the consequences of choosing poorly but not so permanently.
This also severely reduces the pay to win factor to which is already a stigma that the boosters currently suffer from as obnoxiously rich players cannot buy their way to the best fits and by the time they unsped all the no longer FOTM SP and train it into the new one that may get nerfed again thus starting the whole cycle over again.
A non-istant respec system is good however coming up with a system that appeals to anti-respecs and pro-respecs people is extremely diffucult since the Anti-respec crowd want a harsh penalty while the pro-respec crowd want a minimal penalty.
we get 1 refund tokens every 6 months for a cost of 25 million isk each token -it can only refund one skill only no matter what level. -if you brought one token but didn't use it will be gone after a month. -if you decide to use it your passive sp gain will be halved for a month.
I edited this ^ idea cause i feel like the consequence isn't big enough.
so what do you guys think of this respec system? |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2592
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 19:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
How about a De-Booster? it could work similarly to the passive/active boosters; You tag skills to "de-boost" and instead of gaining an extra .5 SP per SP earned, 1 SP is removed from the skill you have tagged per 1 SP you earn. This way, it's a bit faster than a regular booster, but you aren't actually gaining SP, instead you're slowly rearranging it. |
Nekrokult
Cariocecus Consilium
27
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 20:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Allow us to make any fitting we want, regardless of having the skills for that module/dropsuit/vehicle or not (itGÇÖs possible to equip modules you havenGÇÖt skilled into already, but not suits). Then make a TRIAL gamemode where everyone can join with those fittings and where it doesnGÇÖt consume any item, no KDR is recorded and no SP/ISK is gained. A pure GÇ£let me see how this thing works outGÇ¥. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
729
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 20:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A non-instant system would also be preferable as it still drives home the consequences of choosing poorly but not so permanently.
This also severely reduces the pay to win factor to which is already a stigma that the boosters currently suffer from as obnoxiously rich players cannot buy their way to the best fits and by the time they unsped all the no longer FOTM SP and train it into the new one that may get nerfed again thus starting the whole cycle over again.
Agreed, IWS.
Justed noticed Dust FIEND edited the OP with his system idea. +1 Dust, and I totally support.
I think one "respec skill point" per week is reasonable, and I'm in the camp that totally loathes the idea of respecs. |
SlyFrenzy
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 21:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:How about a De-Booster? it could work similarly to the passive/active boosters; You tag skills to "de-boost" and instead of gaining an extra .5 SP per SP earned, 1 SP is removed from the skill you have tagged per 1 SP you earn. This way, it's a bit faster than a regular booster, but you aren't actually gaining SP, instead you're slowly rearranging it.
I like it pretty what i had in mind though I can't really word I'm sorry I digress
just to be clear you can "de-boost your skill whenever right?
and i feel like Passive sp should be still on however it should be decreased by 60%. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6896
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 02:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
I still agree with this
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+
|
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7401
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 02:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I still agree with this As do many, I'd imagine, at least to some extent.
Red is dead
|
Nyx Linx
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 03:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
There's something unfair about this game as of now as of ever. waiting on better days.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |