DUST Search - Useless Skills?

ghjl ghjkl wrote:

Saxbrin Shain wrote:

I've heard that some skills, like those that deal with Equipment, can't currently give bonuses to the items they unlock.
Drop Uplink Deployment, for example, does nothing more than unlock access to more expensive Drop Uplinks. Yeah, those uplinks are better than the Basic ones, but it does nothing to improve the Basic Uplinks.

Every rank of Assault Rifle Operation (and other weapon skills) improves every Assault Rifle GÇö whether it's Militia or Prototype.

Hopefully this gets fixed soon because, as a dedicated Logistics player, I'm spending a lot of skill points that do nothing but give me the privilege of spending more money on Equipment with higher fitting requirements.

I kinda like that some skills are unlock, and some are bonus. If I were to turn back the clock when I had millions of passive sp to blow, I would have appreciated this more if I were truly paying attention. The skill tree is already signature ccp complex, it doesn't need to be any more complex, imho

Pages: 1 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Kigurosaka Laaksonen Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 6	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:19:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not a fan of the SP/time grind from EVE. Passively grinding time is not sufficiently different than actively grinding time in other MMOs. But in EVE there is a benefit from training any skill to V, with very few exceptions (I'm lookin' at you, TSM!) However, 'is there a reason to train [whatever] skill to V?' is not the same as 'is it worth my time to train [whatever] skill to V?' EVE is a passive time grind, so it's about time management and if that time could be better spent elsewhere. You need to think in terms of benefit gained from the skill per time spent training that skill. The mix of active and passive SP in Dust was awesome. There was a reason to train any skill to V, even if it may be more time effective to train some other skill to some lower level first. If you didn't have time to play as much as others, you could still log on and have more SP to work with. If you played for less hours than someone else, but were a better player, you got more kills and more SP. If you just had a lot of time to sink into it, you could eventually get more SP. Whichever build changed the skill tree oversimplified it. Different branches of the skill tree are totally isolated now instead of have some interconnectivity. Active SP gains are too low to make an hour long play session attribute anything meaningful to your SP total. And this is the biggest problem; Some skills have lost a reason to train to V. I hope I'm reading this wrong and someone can correct me, but take Dropsuit Command, for example. Dropsuit Command III is the highest level needed to unlock every [racial] [size] Dropsuit skill. The skill itself gives no bonuses. As far as I can see, there is no suit that gets a bonus/level of Dropsuit Command. There are various other skills like this. Why should anyone ever train Dropsuit Command past III?
Yokal Bob Ill Omens 252	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:21:00 - [2] - Quote there is no need to get a couple of the skills past a certain point, kinda pointless i know
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 506	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:24:00 - [3] - Quote this explains everything http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w86/xavalin2/AG.jpg
Assert Dominance Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 365	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:25:00 - [4] - Quote Same as sharpshooter, it does nothing.
falzar102 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 24	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:26:00 - [5] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Why should anyone ever train Dropsuit Command past III? I suspect CCP will introduce things that are dependant on level 5. But atm, if you train to level 5 you are a dumb@ss.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 6	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:36:00 - [6] - Quote That picture was spot on, Chibi. ;) I know there are a handful of other skills like this, Dropsuit Command is just the first that came to mind. Which build was it that changed the skill tree? Before that build, Dropsuit Command gave a bonus per level. Why the change? Have I just missed plans to change it back, or to fix the problem of not having a reason to go to V? Why change it at all?
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 238	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:37:00 - [7] - Quote SP sinks. SP sinks everywhere. From what I understand, it's to keep people from maxing out things quickly. They (CCP) also enjoy causing things to be tedious for the most part.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 484	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:48:00 - [8] - Quote This should be addresed. Some skills don't even give you bonuses. Then why is it a skill if you learned nothing from it. good post. I also had the fancy idea of skilling level 3 to ammo capacity, what a waste on my part. *cough respec
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1154	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:53:00 - [9] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: That picture was spot on, Chibi. ;) I know there are a handful of other skills like this, Dropsuit Command is just the first that came to mind. Which build was it that changed the skill tree? Before that build, Dropsuit Command gave a bonus per level. Why the change? Have I just missed plans to change it back, or to fix the problem of not having a reason to go to V? Why change it at all? It was uprising and official game release. Prior to that it was beta and they inflated SP to allow testing of high-level play. Or something.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 940	Posted - 2013.09.13 15:02:00 - [10] - Quote yep I miss skills having purpose like pre uprising. so many useless skills... even the tier 1 suit commands are worthless, ksilling up to level 3 in a core frame is a weeks worth of sp, just to start the 1 month grind into proto suits. painful =/

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 8416	Posted - 2013.09.13 15:03:00 - [11] - Quote Couple months ago CCP Remnant stated the bonus system was particularly broken and didn't allow for a good amount of freedom like eve has when it came to altering certain properties and this is probably why we have several skills that just do nothing because the game is incapable of doing what is drafted on paper. There was also a massive shift to move the game away from passive skills (where if I train mechanics to V I get 25% armor HP regardless if I don't fit armor modules) and moved to a more semi-passive states (where I have to fit armor plates now to benefit) Work is going on this I am sure when Team Kong is ready to share the results of their work they will.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 6	Posted - 2013.09.13 15:20:00 - [12] - Quote Skills make us. I had no problem skilling Weaponry to V and getting a +10% (It was 5% per level, right?) damage increase over someone who only skilled it to III. Was the shift away from 'passive bonuses' driven by the player base or by CCP? Also, this is the first I've heard of Team Kong. I guess they handle the skills.
8213 Grade No.2 269	Posted - 2013.09.13 15:26:00 - [13] - Quote I guess it depends on what role you feel like doing. But you have to be careful what you're getting into. Some skills have 5 levels, when only 3 are need (Regular dropsuits for instance lvl 2 & 4 aren't needed)
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 509	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:09:00 - [14] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: That picture was spot on, Chibi. ;) lol thank you, thank you
Saxbrin Shain The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 34	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:19:00 - [15] - Quote I've heard that some skills, like those that deal with Equipment, can't currently give bonuses to the items they unlock. Drop Uplink Deployment, for example, does nothing more than unlock access to more expensive Drop Uplinks. Yeah, those uplinks are better than the Basic ones, but it does nothing to improve the Basic Uplinks. Every rank of Assault Rifle Operation (and other weapon skills) improves every Assault Rifle GÇö whether it's Militia or Prototype. Hopefully this gets fixed soon because, as a dedicated Logistics player, I'm spending a lot of skill points that do nothing but give me the privilege of spending more money on Equipment with higher fitting requirements.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. 727	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:54:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Couple months ago CCP Remnant stated the bonus system was particularly broken and didn't allow for a good amount of freedom like eve has when it came to altering certain properties and this is probably why we have several skills that just do nothing because the game is incapable of doing what is drafted on paper. There was also a massive shift to move the game away from passive skills (where if I train mechanics to V I get 25% armor HP regardless if I don't fit armor modules) and moved to a more semi-passive states (where I have to fit armor plates now to benefit) Work is going on this I am sure when Team Kong is ready to share the results of their work they will. Fitting optimization is useless since even at level four at close to a million sp the "bonus" is a decimal point that gets rounded to zero....lol. Explosives has no value other than to unlock a "better" explosive"....lol. the basic, advanced and proto all have the same damage....lol.
NAV HIV The Generals EoN. 433	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:56:00 - [17] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: Same as sharpshooter, it does nothing. Specially AR sharpshooter.
ghjl ghjkl Patriotic Investment Group Inc. 5	Posted - 2013.09.13 17:00:00 - [18] - Quote Saxbrin Shain wrote: I've heard that some skills, like those that deal with Equipment, can't currently give bonuses to the items they unlock. Drop Uplink Deployment, for example, does nothing more than unlock access to more expensive Drop Uplinks. Yeah, those uplinks are better than the Basic ones, but it does nothing to improve the Basic Uplinks. Every rank of Assault Rifle Operation (and other weapon skills) improves every Assault Rifle GÇö whether it's Militia or Prototype. Hopefully this gets fixed soon because, as a dedicated Logistics player, I'm spending a lot of skill points that do nothing but give me the privilege of spending more money on Equipment with higher fitting requirements. I kinda like that some skills are unlock, and some are bonus. If I were to turn back the clock when I had millions of passive sp to blow, I would have appreciated this more if I were truly paying attention. The skill tree is already signature ccp complex, it doesn't need to be any more complex, imho
Kigurosaka Laaksonen Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.09.13 17:29:00 - [19] - Quote Dust's skill tree is a pale, broken shadow of Eve's skill tree.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 734	Posted - 2013.09.13 17:29:00 - [20] - Quote I foolishly skilled into uplinks 4.... and then stopped. Still not asking for a respec though.

Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1636	Posted - 2013.09.13 17:33:00 - [21] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: I foolishly skilled into uplinks 4.... and then stopped. Still not asking for a respec though. exactly. Right attitude most people: "I made a mistake on my part and I should get cover for them"
Rami Hamilo Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 1	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:04:00 - [22] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: I foolishly skilled into uplinks 4.... and then stopped. Still not asking for a respec though. Why wouldn't you want uplink 5? Are you dumb or something? Do you spend arum on a proto uplink with uplink 4? I don't know about you, but those 4 second spawn links are pretty awesome, especially when in PC.
Rami Hamilo Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 1	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:10:00 - [23] - Quote ghjl ghjkl wrote: Saxbrin Shain wrote: I've heard that some skills, like those that deal with Equipment, can't currently give bonuses to the items they unlock. Drop Uplink Deployment, for example, does nothing more than unlock access to more expensive Drop Uplinks. Yeah, those uplinks are better than the Basic ones, but it does nothing to improve the Basic Uplinks. Every rank of Assault Rifle Operation (and other weapon skills) improves every Assault Rifle GÇö whether it's Militia or Prototype. Hopefully this gets fixed soon because, as a dedicated Logistics player, I'm spending a lot of skill points that do nothing but give me the privilege of spending more money on Equipment with higher fitting requirements. I kinda like that some skills are unlock, and some are bonus. If I were to turn back the clock when I had millions of passive sp to blow, I would have appreciated this more if I were truly paying attention. The skill tree is already signature ccp complex, it doesn't need to be any more complex, imho I don't know about you, but I'd rather spend the few million SP for Uplink 5 to get that 4 second spawn time than just using a militia uplink. Also, this is why you go Gallente Logistics, then you don't need to worry about higher fitting costs.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3454	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:12:00 - [24] - Quote Vehicle engineering is the single most broken skill in dust, not only does it has the single most useless bonus ever conceived,it fails to fall in line with every other engineering skill in existence, and vehicle users are forced to level it to LV4 if they want to fit decent PG modules, hence making a fit that has some hope of surviving a match. It's such an utter, ridiculous sp sink.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4143	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:17:00 - [25] - Quote There are some skill books in Eve Online that don't have passive bonuses built into them like the others. However, there are ships that have their own built-in bonuses that can be affected by these skill books. Let's say that you have trained up Transport Command to Level 5 but the skill book has no built-in bonus. At the same time, the Transport ship you have in your hangar has a built-in bonus of say... +10% bonus to cargohold capacity per level. That transport ship will benefit from having a 50% bonus to its cargohold capacity as long as you own that ship.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:25:00 - [26] - Quote Maken, the difference here is that there's a reason to train Transports to level V, even though it might not be particularly worthwhile. The issue is not that some skills in Dust have no direct bonus associated with the skill. The issue is that there is literally no reason to train many skills to V at all.


Pages: 1 :: [one page]