Great work so far, maybe you could add the scrambler rifle from Delta Iddon's graphs here:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886&find=unread

I'm pretty sure the SR is just the ASR + 5m

Ah! That's the guy who inspired all of this, by the way.

Saw one of those beautiful graphs and immediately thought, "Holy hell this needs to be in-game somewhere."

Honestly not trying to steal the thunder - I didn't know more graphs existed! I need to get a hold of this guy for sure though.

you should get someone with and alt and sync in FW to test. would be alot easier getting the exact ranges.

Phew! This has taken me the better part of the night, some of you just don't hold still!

My thanks to all of the snipers and turret gunners out there that did though!

So a little back story is in order. This was mostly inspired during a discussion in which another player provided a line graph showing the efficacy at range for a Laser Rifle. I decided, why stop there? This is something that we all need/want!

This is the first step as part of my soon-to-come-to-fruition project: The Dust 514 Orientation Initiative which is being made to provide constant up to date knowledge materials to both new and veteran players in an easy to read manner, using as little spreadsheets as absolutely possible. The first part of the project is nearing completion and I've only a few more weapons to go (mostly because I can't use them yet!)

So, without further adieu I'd like to share with you all what I've got so far:

http://i.imgur.com/fboaQfS.png

It's still a work in progress and this one is only against shields as the values for armor is a little harder to pull off, but I like where it's going so far.

Feedback? Suggestions? General comments? Hate mail?

Nice work

I'm thinking about it since long but i'm lazy+bad at math

I think to kill the phantasm or the fog of war about the gap of power between players at differents states of developpment, it could be interesting to do a graphic with a little image of a dust soldier of various sizes to show overall power of a grunt at : (for example)
at start
after one week of play
after one month of play
after 6 months of play
after 1 year of play

considering :
the guy play one hour daily and dont use booster nor buy aurum
- invest in skills at 50% that raise damages
- invest in skills at 50% that raise hit points

The size would be proportionnal to the average number we would get between total hp and dps

and of course giving overall (reasonable) price of the fitting the guy will use at the various level of his evolution

it could kill or lower the general idea that people can have about the game : "it's pay to win" / "you can't catch up"

Also maybe another good way to look at this would be as a % of total max damage. Because then you get an idea of each weapon's relative usefulness at each range. At 50m, (its falloff) AR does about 50% max to shields while ASR does 70%. At 65 m AR does about 45% while SR does about 65%. The SR 'falloff' (not ASR) should be around 70-75m where it would do 50% max damage.

Even further, what you can't really see is the paper DPS at each range. Its hard to know how much would exactly hit at each range, but you COULD assume 100% and then just go from there.

Well, that'll be a bigger project but for now I do have a line graph showing the disparity between paying for boosters and not paying for boosters over a six month period =D

http://i.imgur.com/bOxw235.png

Edit: Huh. Not sure why it decided to format one line's number values but not the other. I'll fix that right quick.

thought active boosters did not raise cap so I fail to see how they can be a factor unless you are adding in some extra post-cap grind games to both sides?

Nice graph, but it would be more meaningful to normalize them to 100% damage.

I'm actually working on another graph (Bar Graph) showing the DPS values of each weapon ranging from lowest to highest, that one is rather straight forward as it's just some basic division of RPM, although some weapons are a bit harder to calculate - like the Laser Rifle.

Another thing I plan on doing is showing Radar charts (or, Spider Graphs, rather) showing the prominent values of the dropsuits between one another. You might remember this from stuff like Chromehounds or Armored Core.

Would love to see this with HMG in the mix :)

Cool graph though!

True, they don't raise the cap - but you receive an additional 50% extra from each match. This means that the cap (190,400 SP a week) is not raised, rather a bonus of 95,200 SP is applied.

Awesome work. Though I kind of lament the lack of the standard SR...That said, I know how much work these things are, so props for that.

Nice graphs!

Would be interesting to be able to plot the effective damage per shot given some probability to hit with each bullet. For example 75%, 95% and 100% hit rate probability.

Such a graph could indicate which weapon is best in average when it comes to lag susceptibility, player skill, hit detection code, etc.

Might not be necessary though, we all know AR is king already...

I think straight DPS would be artificial. DPS over time would make more sense. A good chart could maybe be a stacked bar graph or something that shows:

Burst DPS: max DPS in best second regardless of reload/accuracy (AR: no skills = 425)
Magazine DPS: avg DPS before a reload (AR: 408)
Magazine Damage: assume all rounds in clip hit (AR: 2000)
Lifetime DPS: avg DPS to empty a gun at max use (AR: 276)
Then you could even modify it for shields/armor for each stat.

There is a lot of data out there to visualize and a lot of ways to visualize it.

A thing that's hard to understand is that weapons cycle through their damage potential differently. Like with a mass driver or a scrambler rifle you can pop out of cover just long enough to do 2 quick shots that could do 500-700 damage in 2 seconds. You would have to have a target dead in your crosshairs for a full 2 seconds to do that with a STD AR.

Then when you combine that idea with your tank, you really only need a tank that will last you for the time that you choose to be exposed, plus whatever buffer you feel comfortable with to do incidental damage.

nice and notice the laser is "long range" but has the lowest damage at 90m+. personally i think the ARs and SrC should have much lower damage at those ranges and the LR has of slope down after 85m. a lot of the weapons weapons slopes are just wonky. and have been extended where they shouldn't of have. SMG 120m LOL anyone?

HEY! Where the hell is my HMG!? What kind of fuckin useless chart is this!? Got no damn HMG! How the hell am I suppose to use this!? It's like having toast and you got all the butter an jam n ****, but no damn knife! Not even a pocket knife!

Naw this looks ******* awesome. But in all honesty why no HMG? Is that going to be your next project? This looks like a light weapons chart, so you'll be working on heavy weapons next?

The laser is the most surrpising. You really gotta be in a specific range for it to be useful. That's pretty neat.

Flaylock is also good to know, I'm still trying to figure out how to use that damn thing...

I think they are going to take a pass on all of these for 1.5. Especially if the new rifles are in it would make sense to make sure everything is in its place.

I'm not sure how much info you're going to get from the burst HMG. It does this weird thing where it gets more accurate at the end of its firing cycle. Kind of confusing.

I could see DPS really start to matter in a different way if and when we do get PvE. If you have to have something like 1000 DPS to burn something down for a few seconds before its shields immediately come back, that would be crazy hard.

How crazy would it be if you had to alpha through 10000 HP of shield with a 2 second regen of 2500 HP/s just to take out 2000 HP armor.

Accuracy doesn't actually affect efficacy though, that's the part I'm grateful for.

Using the SMG as an example - you CAN do damage to someone at 100 meters but that's entirely if you hit them!

ADS is pretty much 100% accurate.

You ever tried shooting pixels at 100 meters? O_o;

Was hard enough just putting the retical on a non-moving target, lol.

Looking at this graph it makes me wish they had weapon type profiles. Where Blasters, Lasers and Ballistic weapons all had different behaviors.

Blasters: high damage potential short but they fall a cliff after their optimal (due to plasma dissipation).

Lasers: build damage potential up to their optimal then flatten to their max range (similar to the laser rifle in the chart) and then fall gradually.

Ballistics: Flat to their optimal then gradual falloff as the bullet loses kinetic energy.

This gives each weapon type a flavor. Blasters do excel in short range but can't hit at far ranges. Lasers don't do so well in short range, excel at moderate ranges and are ok at long ranges. Ballistics do well in short range, well in moderate range and ok at long ranges.

Im not sure this is correct. I feel my hmg has got better range than the Ar, maybe because most Ar users are good dancers, but not so good at shooting.

Quick update guys - after I finish some studies I'm going to be running tests on the SMG and Scrambler Pistol variants as they are the only ones I don't think I have yet. Stay frosty..! Or... Something.

Oi, did you miss my question or are you ignoring me? :D

Anyway, do you mind if I link this thread from my range thread? It's got some great info in it.

I like the graph ;).

EDIT: Looks to me like ARs could do with a much shorter falloff, especially now that they hit for >20% damage way past that anyway.

This would make sense, but if the burst is supposed to represent the minmatar combat rifle, you'd think it would be the one getting a bit more range and the AR would be a little shorter than it is. If the minmatar combat rifle is closer range optimal with an earlier drop off it would either have to be higher DPS than AR, making it a different concept than Eve, or it would have to have a very long falloff with a moderate DPS so that it would actually do more damage than plasma well into plasma's falloff.

The Minnie CR should have range to it but less ROF. It needs to fit with the playstyle of the suits which are speedy but cant tank as well as others. It needs to support hit-n-run tactics which is all about range right now with hit detection the way it is. I agree that it should have a much more gradual falloff than the AR.

Nice chart.

waiting for 1.7 new graphs :)

this has real lr ranges http://i.imgur.com/krRr5EZ.png

never mind on my prior post ..now can u overlap and add the rr so we can watch how and why lr is extinct

Phew! This has taken me the better part of the night, some of you just don't hold still!

My thanks to all of the snipers and turret gunners out there that did though!

So a little back story is in order. This was mostly inspired during a discussion in which another player provided a line graph showing the efficacy at range for a Laser Rifle. I decided, why stop there? This is something that we all need/want!

This is the first step as part of my soon-to-come-to-fruition project: The Dust 514 Orientation Initiative which is being made to provide constant up to date knowledge materials to both new and veteran players in an easy to read manner, using as little spreadsheets as absolutely possible. The first part of the project is nearing completion and I've only a few more weapons to go (mostly because I can't use them yet!)

So, without further adieu I'd like to share with you all what I've got so far:

http://i.imgur.com/fboaQfS.png

It's still a work in progress and this one is only against shields as the values for armor is a little harder to pull off, but I like where it's going so far.

Feedback? Suggestions? General comments? Hate mail?

EDIT:

SP Accrual Graph: http://i.imgur.com/bOxw235.png

Updated Graph (includes HMGs/Scrambler Rifle): http://i.imgur.com/krRr5EZ.png

I don't want to be a douchebag because that's a really great initiative.
But these values are wrong or "not complete".
You didn't mention what tier of weapons was used.
Proto weapons have a better range than STD/ADV.
Adv have a better range than STD.
A Duvollle have not the same range than an GEK-38.
That's why proto weapons seems so powerful and cost so much ISK that's not just for 2 more damage you know....
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65468/1/rangeprofiles.jpg

And that's why "Assault Scrambler" seems powerful in your graph.
It's Tier 4 Weapon (Level 4) and you've compared it to a Tier 1 weapon (STD)

I don't want to be a douchebag because that's a really great initiative.
But these values are wrong or "not complete".
You didn't mention what tier of weapons was used.
Proto weapons have a better range than STD/ADV.
Adv have a better range than STD.
A Duvollle have not the same range than an GEK-38.
That's why proto weapons seems so powerful and cost so much ISK that's not just for 2 more damage you know....
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65468/1/rangeprofiles.jpg

And that's why "Assault Scrambler" seems powerful in your graph.
It's Tier 4 Weapon (Level 4) and you've compared it to a Tier 1 weapon (STD)